Who are the people of the book?
-
Salam,
Part of being a ?believer? is believing in that which is revealed and that which was revealed BEFORE23 And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.
241 And believe in what I have revealed, verifying that which is with you, and be not the first to deny it, neither take a mean price in exchange for My communications; and Me, Me alone should you fear.
290 Evil is that for which they have sold their souls-- that they should deny what Allah has revealed, out of envy that Allah should send down of His grace on whomsoever of His servants He pleases; so they have made themselves deserving of wrath upon wrath, and there is a disgraceful punishment for the unbelievers.
291 And when it is said to them, Believe in what Allah has revealed, they say We believe in that which was revealed to us; and they deny what is besides that, while it is the truth verifying that which they have. Say Why then did you kill Allah's Prophets before if you were indeed believers?
297 Say Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel-- for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which is before it and guidance and good news for the believers.
2136 Say We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
2285 The messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference between any of His messengers; and they say We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.
33 He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
34 Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah they shall have a severe chastisement; and Allah is Mighty, the Lord of retribution.
384 Say We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
3199 And most surely of the followers of the Book there are those who believe in Allah and (in) that which has been revealed to you and (in) that which has been revealed to them, being lowly before Allah; they do not take a small price for the communications of Allah; these it is that have their reward with their Lord; surely Allah is quick in reckoning.
447 O you who have been given the Book! believe that which We have revealed, verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violaters of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed.
4136 O you who believe! believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book which He has revealed to His Messenger and the Book which He revealed before; and whoever disbelieves in Allah and His angels and His messengers and the last day, he indeed strays off into a remote error.
4162 But the firm in knowledge among them and the believers believe in what has been revealed to. you and what was revealed before you, and those who keep up prayers and those who give the poor-rate and the believers in Allah and the last day, these it is whom We will give a mighty reward.
544 Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
547 And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.
548 And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
559 Say O followers of the Book! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors?
566 And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do
568 Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.
692 And this is a Book We have revealed, blessed, verifying that which is before it, and that you may warn the metropolis and those around her; and those who believe in the hereafter believe in it, and they attend to their prayers constantly.
1094 But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers.
4230
They said O our people! we have listened to a Book revealed after Musa verifying that which is before it, guiding to the truth and to a right pathSeveral times the revelation given to Muhammad is called a REMINDER
What are the stories in the Quran REMINDING us about?
A LARGE PORTION is about the previous prophets....
in the PREVIOUS scripture....
Those stories are found in the OLD TESTAMENT AND THE INJEEL!
These stories HAVE BEEN WITH US FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
The written forms have also been with us for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.388 Has the reminder been revealed to him from among us? Nay! they are in doubt as to My reminder. Nay! they have not yet tasted My chastisement!
82 A Book revealed to you-- so let there be no straitness in your breast on account of it-- that you may warn thereby, and a reminder close to the believers.
152 And they say O you to whom the Reminder has been revealed! you are most surely insane
159 Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.
1244 With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.
20113 And thus have We sent it down an Arabic Quran, and have distinctly set forth therein of threats that they may guard (against evil) or that it may produce a reminder for them.
2110 Certainly We have revealed to you a Book in which is your good remembrance; what! do you not then understand?
2150And this is a blessed Reminder which We have revealed; will you then deny it?
2951 Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.
2510 Allah has prepared for them severe chastisement, therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah, O men of understanding who believe! Allah has indeed revealed to you a reminder,
What has been revealed before? and to what is the Quran reminding us? This is outlined in the Quran
33 He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
348 And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel.
350 And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden t you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me.
543 And how do they make you a judge and they have the Taurat wherein is Allah's judgment? Yet they turn back after that, and these are not the believers.
544 Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
546 And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).
566 And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do
568 Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.
5110 When Allah will say O Isa son of Marium! Remember My favor on you and on your mother, when I strengthened you I with the holy Spirit, you spoke to the people in the cradle and I when of old age, and when I taught you the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you determined out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the children of Israel from you when you came to them with clear arguments, but those who disbelieved among them said This is nothing but clear enchantment.
7157 Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel (who) enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as for) those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful.
9111 Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.
4869 Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.
616 And when Isa son of Marium said O children of Israel! surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said This is clear magic.
625 The likeness of those who were charged with the Taurat, then they did not observe it, is as the likeness of the ass bearing books, evil is the likeness of the people who reject the communications of Allah; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
547 And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.
4163 Surely We have revealed to you as We revealed to Nuh, and the prophets after him, and We revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and Isa and Ayub and Yunus and Haroun and Sulaiman and We gave to Dawood the psalms.
1755 And your Lord best knows those who are in the heavens and the earth; and certainly We have made some of the prophets to excel others, and to Dawood We gave a scripture.
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace "arnab"
Salam,
Part of being a ?believer? is believing in that which is revealed and that which was revealed BEFORE23 And who believe in that which has been revealed to you and that which was revealed before you and they are sure of the hereafter.
241 And believe in what I have revealed, verifying that which is with you, and be not the first to deny it, neither take a mean price in exchange for My communications; and Me, Me alone should you fear.
290 Evil is that for which they have sold their souls-- that they should deny what Allah has revealed, out of envy that Allah should send down of His grace on whomsoever of His servants He pleases; so they have made themselves deserving of wrath upon wrath, and there is a disgraceful punishment for the unbelievers.
291 And when it is said to them, Believe in what Allah has revealed, they say We believe in that which was revealed to us; and they deny what is besides that, while it is the truth verifying that which they have. Say Why then did you kill Allah's Prophets before if you were indeed believers?
297 Say Whoever is the enemy of Jibreel-- for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's command, verifying that which is before it and guidance and good news for the believers.
2136 Say We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
2285 The messenger believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His messengers; We make no difference between any of His messengers; and they say We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course.
33 He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
34 Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah they shall have a severe chastisement; and Allah is Mighty, the Lord of retribution.
384 Say We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
3199 And most surely of the followers of the Book there are those who believe in Allah and (in) that which has been revealed to you and (in) that which has been revealed to them, being lowly before Allah; they do not take a small price for the communications of Allah; these it is that have their reward with their Lord; surely Allah is quick in reckoning.
447 O you who have been given the Book! believe that which We have revealed, verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violaters of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed.
4136 O you who believe! believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book which He has revealed to His Messenger and the Book which He revealed before; and whoever disbelieves in Allah and His angels and His messengers and the last day, he indeed strays off into a remote error.
4162 But the firm in knowledge among them and the believers believe in what has been revealed to. you and what was revealed before you, and those who keep up prayers and those who give the poor-rate and the believers in Allah and the last day, these it is whom We will give a mighty reward.
544 Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
547 And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.
548 And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; for every one of you did We appoint a law and a way, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, therefore strive with one another to hasten to virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
559 Say O followers of the Book! do you find fault with us (for aught) except that we believe in Allah and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed before, and that most of you are transgressors?
566 And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do
568 Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.
692 And this is a Book We have revealed, blessed, verifying that which is before it, and that you may warn the metropolis and those around her; and those who believe in the hereafter believe in it, and they attend to their prayers constantly.
1094 But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers.
4230
They said O our people! we have listened to a Book revealed after Musa verifying that which is before it, guiding to the truth and to a right pathSeveral times the revelation given to Muhammad is called a REMINDER
What are the stories in the Quran REMINDING us about?
A LARGE PORTION is about the previous prophets....
in the PREVIOUS scripture....
Those stories are found in the OLD TESTAMENT AND THE INJEEL!
These stories HAVE BEEN WITH US FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.
The written forms have also been with us for THOUSANDS OF YEARS.388 Has the reminder been revealed to him from among us? Nay! they are in doubt as to My reminder. Nay! they have not yet tasted My chastisement!
82 A Book revealed to you-- so let there be no straitness in your breast on account of it-- that you may warn thereby, and a reminder close to the believers.
152 And they say O you to whom the Reminder has been revealed! you are most surely insane
159 Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian.
1244 With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.
20113 And thus have We sent it down an Arabic Quran, and have distinctly set forth therein of threats that they may guard (against evil) or that it may produce a reminder for them.
2110 Certainly We have revealed to you a Book in which is your good remembrance; what! do you not then understand?
2150And this is a blessed Reminder which We have revealed; will you then deny it?
2951 Is it not enough for them that We have revealed to you the Book which is recited to them? Most surely there is mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe.
2510 Allah has prepared for them severe chastisement, therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah, O men of understanding who believe! Allah has indeed revealed to you a reminder,
What has been revealed before? and to what is the Quran reminding us? This is outlined in the Quran
33 He has revealed to you the Book with truth, verifying that which is before it, and He revealed the Tavrat and the Injeel aforetime, a guidance for the people, and He sent the Furqan.
348 And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel.
350 And a verifier of that which is before me of the Taurat and that I may allow you part of that which has been forbidden t you, and I have come to you with a sign from your Lord therefore be careful of (your duty to) Allah and obey me.
543 And how do they make you a judge and they have the Taurat wherein is Allah's judgment? Yet they turn back after that, and these are not the believers.
544 Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.
546 And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).
566 And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do
568 Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people.
5110 When Allah will say O Isa son of Marium! Remember My favor on you and on your mother, when I strengthened you I with the holy Spirit, you spoke to the people in the cradle and I when of old age, and when I taught you the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you determined out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the children of Israel from you when you came to them with clear arguments, but those who disbelieved among them said This is nothing but clear enchantment.
7157 Those who follow the Messenger-Prophet, the Ummi, whom they find written down with them in the Taurat and the Injeel (who) enjoins them good and forbids them evil, and makes lawful to them the good things and makes unlawful to them impure things, and removes from them their burden and the shackles which were upon them; so (as for) those who believe in him and honor him and help him, and follow the light which has been sent down with him, these it is that are the successful.
9111 Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.
4869 Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.
616 And when Isa son of Marium said O children of Israel! surely I am the messenger of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said This is clear magic.
625 The likeness of those who were charged with the Taurat, then they did not observe it, is as the likeness of the ass bearing books, evil is the likeness of the people who reject the communications of Allah; and Allah does not guide the unjust people.
547 And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.
4163 Surely We have revealed to you as We revealed to Nuh, and the prophets after him, and We revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and Isa and Ayub and Yunus and Haroun and Sulaiman and We gave to Dawood the psalms.
1755 And your Lord best knows those who are in the heavens and the earth; and certainly We have made some of the prophets to excel others, and to Dawood We gave a scripture.
Salam,
ArnabJK- And you are sure what Jews and Christians today present to you as being the scripture is really the true previous Scripture which GOD revealed? One must be nuts to believe that. Do you know how many contradictions there are in the OT? ALOT. And also there are many absurdities which clearly contradict reality. So the OT cannot even be the word of a smart person of today, much less the Word of GOD. GOD Bless!
-
Peace "arnab",
I DO BELIEVE in the previous scriptures which GOD has sent and i believe one day scienstists will through archaeological research unravel the true Torah, Psalms and Injeel and perhaps any other books revealed by GOD. You just keep trusting in the Jews, Christians and the sunnis or shia. I trust in independent research and the scientific method(1736) where bias is reduced to a minimum. GOD Bless! -
Peace "belalhammad",
JK- Where does GOD call the OT books like deuteronomy, exodus etc Torah? Tell me that. Secondly i told you already if someone comes to you and says this is the book of Moses will you just believe him? Will you not analyse the text of tht book to see whether it truly can be the Torah revealed by GOD? ONCE AGAIN USE YOUR BRAIN! GOD Bless!
There is proof that THE TORAH also called THE BOOKS OF MOSES that we have TODAY is the exact same scripture that Muhammad had and Isa had.
There is archeological and scientific proof of this.The Torah has always been called such even in the time of Isa and Muhammad and always refers to the book we have with us today.
The names Genesis/Bereshit, Exodus/Shemot, Leviticus/Va Yikra, Numbers/Ba Midbar, Deuteronomy/Devarim, are taken from the first words of the first verse of each book.
The English titles are Greek based on the subject of each chapter.The Torah is the first section of the TANAKH (which is also called the Old Testament).
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace "arnab",
I DO BELIEVE in the previous scriptures which GOD has sent and i believe one day scienstists will through archaeological research unravel the true Torah, Psalms and Injeel and perhaps any other books revealed by GOD.LOL...ok you keep searching. Like I said there is scientific unquestionable evidence that the Torah we have with us today is the same as what Isa and Muhammad had.
You just keep trusting in the Jews, Christians and the sunnis or shia. I trust in independent research and the scientific method(1736) where bias is reduced to a minimum. GOD Bless!
You won't even read the scriptures (in HEBREW) to verify for yourself.
You willingly just BELIEVE the sunnis and shias when they tell you that scripture has been distorted.
And you willingly disbelieve the Quran when it tells you to follow the previous scripture.
So, now who REALLY is just following without verifying?
ALL scientific evidence points to jonny_k ;D
Salam,
Arnab -
Salaam, Arnab,
Which exactly are the books of Moses? What you mean by Torah are the books of Moses? I mean the books that you mention (Genesis/Bereshit, Exodus/Shemot, Leviticus/Va Yikra, Numbers/Ba Midbar, Deuteronomy/Devarim) may be the same there were at the time of Jesus, but those were not revealed as such. In the Quran there is mention of the tawra and the injil. When you speak of the Torah do you mean those books you mention and I mention between brackets? Do you mean some other books? Do you mean any book at all? Do you mean some part of any book? Obviously, when the Quran speaks about the Tawra it is speaking about a revelation, but is there a book, caomplete book in the old testamente that is all of it a revelation according to your concept? If there is, please name it and define it clearly. If there is not then it is clear that while we are talking away about how the Bible is recognized in the Quran because the Quran mentions the Tawrah we may be confusing different issues.
-
Salaam, Arnab,
Which exactly are the books of Moses? What you mean by Torah are the books of Moses? I mean the books that you mention (Genesis/Bereshit, Exodus/Shemot, Leviticus/Va Yikra, Numbers/Ba Midbar, Deuteronomy/Devarim) may be the same there were at the time of Jesus, but those were not revealed as such.
The NamesGenesis/Bereshit, Exodus/Shemot, Leviticus/Va Yikra, Numbers/Ba Midbar, Deuteronomy/Devarim are the names of the books of the Torah. The Torah has always consisted and included these FIVE books.
The word "books" may be confusing. Perhaps referring to them as chapters will make more sense in English?
In the Quran there is mention of the tawra and the injil. When you speak of the Torah do you mean those books you mention and I mention between brackets?
The names in brackets are the first words heading the CHAPTERS of the Torah.
Obviously, when the Quran speaks about the Tawra it is speaking about a revelation, but is there a book, caomplete book in the old testamente that is all of it a revelation according to your concept?
Yes, The Torah has always consisted of the Five books(chapters) I stated. In fact many times the Torah is referred to as "The Five Books of Moses," or simply "The Books of Moses."
If there is, please name it and define it clearly. If there is not then it is clear that while we are talking away about how the Bible is recognized in the Quran because the Quran mentions the Tawrah we may be confusing different issues.
We are definitely NOT talking about different issues.
Salam,
Arnab -
The Quran does say that God sent the Tawrah and the Tawrah is the Torah. However, Torah in Hebrew literally means Law/Instruction. And Israelists (Jews) have been known to use this word even for the Talmud. But what is always meant by it is Mosaic Law/Instruction. And because they believe that those first five books came from Moses as well as the Talmud they will say that these are the Torah. But the Torah is only the teachings found in Moses' actual words in these books. So the Torah can only be found in the quoted words of Moses in these books and none of the other words. Deutoronomy has most of Moses' actual quotes.
The same is with the Injeel. It is the Gospel but some Biblical trinitarians and unitarians believe that all of the New Testament is an extension of Jesus' teachings so they call it all the Gospel. The 4 accounts of the Gospel are just that accounts of the Gospel. The Gospel, which is the Injeel, is only found in Jesus' actual words (usually found in red in most Bibles discounting Revelations). So Jesus' teachings found in his own words are the Gospel and nothing else.
The Quran does say that the Gospel and the Torah were revealed and are intact but we need to define these terms and not get caught up in misleading Judeo-Christian doctrine. None of the five books of Moses claim to be from Moses, although some of those books quote him. And none of the books in the New Testament claim to be from Jesus or to be his gospel, but some of them quote him and his gospel. Only the quotes of these two prophets of God (God bless them) should interest us in understanding the Quran's claims. We should also be conscious of alternate meanings in the Greek and Aramaic versions for certain things that are said. For instance in John, Jesus claims to be God's only begotten son or his only son. But both are wrong when we read the whole Bible and see that its books claim many sons of God. The greek word is monogenes and can mean only son OR unique son. But mistaken Christians have and will continue to prefer the obviously incorrect meaning despite what the rest of their books indicate. Jacob in the Old testament is given the name Israel and named the FIRSTBORN of God. Just to give a clear example.
Godbless,
Anwar -
The Quran does say that God sent the Tawrah and the Tawrah is the Torah. However, Torah in Hebrew literally means Law/Instruction. And Israelists (Jews) have been known to use this word even for the Talmud. But what is always meant by it is Mosaic Law/Instruction. And because they believe that those first five books came from Moses as well as the Talmud they will say that these are the Torah. But the Torah is only the teachings found in Moses' actual words in these books. So the Torah can only be found in the quoted words of Moses in these books and none of the other words. Deutoronomy has most of Moses' actual quotes.
The same is with the Injeel. It is the Gospel but some Biblical trinitarians and unitarians believe that all of the New Testament is an extension of Jesus' teachings so they call it all the Gospel. The 4 accounts of the Gospel are just that accounts of the Gospel. The Gospel, which is the Injeel, is only found in Jesus' actual words (usually found in red in most Bibles discounting Revelations). So Jesus' teachings found in his own words are the Gospel and nothing else.
The Quran does say that the Gospel and the Torah were revealed and are intact but we need to define these terms and not get caught up in misleading Judeo-Christian doctrine. None of the five books of Moses claim to be from Moses, although some of those books quote him. And none of the books in the New Testament claim to be from Jesus or to be his gospel, but some of them quote him and his gospel. Only the quotes of these two prophets of God (God bless them) should interest us in understanding the Quran's claims. We should also be conscious of alternate meanings in the Greek and Aramaic versions for certain things that are said. For instance in John, Jesus claims to be God's only begotten son or his only son. But both are wrong when we read the whole Bible and see that its books claim many sons of God. The greek word is monogenes and can mean only son OR unique son. But mistaken Christians have and will continue to prefer the obviously incorrect meaning despite what the rest of their books indicate. Jacob in the Old testament is given the name Israel and named the FIRSTBORN of God. Just to give a clear example.
Godbless,
AnwarPeace,
Thank you for your post, and May God Bless -
The NamesGenesis/Bereshit, Exodus/Shemot, Leviticus/Va Yikra, Numbers/Ba Midbar, Deuteronomy/Devarim are the names of the books of the Torah. The Torah has always consisted and included these FIVE books.
The word "books" may be confusing. Perhaps referring to them as chapters will make more sense in English?
The names in brackets are the first words heading the CHAPTERS of the Torah.
Yes, The Torah has always consisted of the Five books(chapters) I stated. In fact many times the Torah is referred to as "The Five Books of Moses," or simply "The Books of Moses."
We are definitely NOT talking about different issues.
Salam,
ArnabSalam, Arnab,
So, Is what I am quoting underneath revealed? If it is revealed, who revealed it to whom?
Genesis 6 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain"Genesis 6
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."
Salaam
-
Peace "arnab",
There is proof that THE TORAH also called THE BOOKS OF MOSES that we have TODAY is the exact same scripture that Muhammad had and Isa had.
There is archeological and scientific proof of this.JK- OH REALLY? Show me that arch evidence for that.
The Torah has always been called such even in the time of Isa and Muhammad and always refers to the book we have with us today.
JK-Wheres the evidence?
The names Genesis/Bereshit, Exodus/Shemot, Leviticus/Va Yikra, Numbers/Ba Midbar, Deuteronomy/Devarim, are taken from the first words of the first verse of each book.
The English titles are Greek based on the subject of each chapter.The Torah is the first section of the TANAKH (which is also called the Old Testament).
Salam,
ArnabJK- You have to show me the evidence where scientists agree that the oldest copies of what the Jews today call Torah and Injeel is the same. They are NOT and this is exactly the reason why it's all BS. GOD Bless!
-
Peace "arnab",
LOL...ok you keep searching. Like I said there is scientific unquestionable evidence that the Torah we have with us today is the same as what Isa and Muhammad had.
JK- NO THERE IS NOT. If you claim there is present the evidence here.
You won't even read the scriptures (in HEBREW) to verify for yourself.
JK- You yourself indirectly agreed that GOD did allow/suggest/command the death penlaty for apostates/blasphemers once. This is enough to know that it cannot be the true Word of GOD. If such were to be the commands/suggestions/laws of GOD then the hadith can also be the inspirations of GOD. The CONTENT plays a VITAL ROLE in deciding whether some scripture is the Word of GOD or not as well. A Book of GOD cannot contain statements which defy all logic and common sense and/or independent verified observations.
You willingly just BELIEVE the sunnis and shias when they tell you that scripture has been distorted.
And you willingly disbelieve the Quran when it tells you to follow the previous scripture.JK- Actually i dont beleive that the scripture has been distorted AND THIS IS YOUR FALLACY OF UNDERSTANDING ME. I just say that JUST BECAUSE CERTAIN RELIGIOUS GROUPS NAME THEIR BOOKS TORAH, INJEEL, ETC DOESNT MEAN THAT THEY REALLY ARE. Get it?
So, now who REALLY is just following without verifying?
ALL scientific evidence points to jonny_k ;D
Salam,
ArnabJK- Your just making bold statements without presenting any scientific evidence to support your points whatsoever. GOD Bless!
-
Peace "arnab",
Heres the evidence that the OT is anything but accurate
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_criticism#Old_Testament
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible#Torah
LAST BUT NOT LEAST http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tgdQM9MO5s (1st part)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTSjGNEdcPQ&feature=related (2nd part)
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pVRavPUz9s (3rd Part)
Notice in particular GOD supposedly killing every FIRST BORN in Egypt instead of the actual criminals. This cruelty and absurdity is not mentioned in the Quran. In the 3rd part Michael Shermer explains the inaccuracy of the "Gospels" of Jesus. GOD Bless! -
The Quran does say that God sent the Tawrah and the Tawrah is the Torah. However, Torah in Hebrew literally means Law/Instruction. And Israelists (Jews) have been known to use this word even for the Talmud. But what is always meant by it is Mosaic Law/Instruction. And because they believe that those first five books came from Moses as well as the Talmud they will say that these are the Torah. But the Torah is only the teachings found in Moses' actual words in these books. So the Torah can only be found in the quoted words of Moses in these books and none of the other words. Deutoronomy has most of Moses' actual quotes.
The same is with the Injeel. It is the Gospel but some Biblical trinitarians and unitarians believe that all of the New Testament is an extension of Jesus' teachings so they call it all the Gospel. The 4 accounts of the Gospel are just that accounts of the Gospel. The Gospel, which is the Injeel, is only found in Jesus' actual words (usually found in red in most Bibles discounting Revelations). So Jesus' teachings found in his own words are the Gospel and nothing else.
The Quran does say that the Gospel and the Torah were revealed and are intact but we need to define these terms and not get caught up in misleading Judeo-Christian doctrine. None of the five books of Moses claim to be from Moses, although some of those books quote him. And none of the books in the New Testament claim to be from Jesus or to be his gospel, but some of them quote him and his gospel. Only the quotes of these two prophets of God (God bless them) should interest us in understanding the Quran's claims. We should also be conscious of alternate meanings in the Greek and Aramaic versions for certain things that are said. For instance in John, Jesus claims to be God's only begotten son or his only son. But both are wrong when we read the whole Bible and see that its books claim many sons of God. The greek word is monogenes and can mean only son OR unique son. But mistaken Christians have and will continue to prefer the obviously incorrect meaning despite what the rest of their books indicate. Jacob in the Old testament is given the name Israel and named the FIRSTBORN of God. Just to give a clear example.
Godbless,
AnwarVery well put, peace
-
Salam, Arnab,
So, Is what I am quoting underneath revealed? If it is revealed, who revealed it to whom?
Genesis 6 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain"Genesis 6
1And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
5And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart."
Salaam
This is from the Torah...the Five books of Moses.
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace "arnab",
JK- OH REALLY? Show me that arch evidence for that.Did you forget to read THIS from the SAME PAGE as the link you provided (which I was already familiar with by the way)
The oldest known preserved fragment of a Torah text is a good luck charm inscribed with a text close to, although not identical with, the Priestly Blessing found in Num 624?27, dated to approximately 600 BC (Dever, p. 180). The oldest complete or nearly complete texts are the Dead Sea Scrolls from the middle of the 2nd century BC to the 1st century AD. The DSS contain almost all the books of the Tanakh, although not all are complete.
source http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible#Oldest_manuscripts
The Masoretic Text, written in Hebrew, became the standard authorized Hebrew text around 100 AD. It existed prior to the writings of the New Testament, confirmed by the Dead Sea Scrolls as early as 168 B.C., and was used as the official Hebrew Old Testament at the time the biblical canon was established.
source http//www.allabouttruth.org/oldest-bible-version-faq.htmBRITISH MUSEUM MAKES IMPORTANT BREAKTHROUGH IN BIBLICAL ARCHAEOLOGY
Rare cuniform tablet
source http//www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/ixbin/hix?IXFIRST=4&IXSS=IXFIRST%3d1%26_IXmode%3dgfx_en%26%2524%2528news%2bor%2bexhibition%2529%2bin%2bart_section%2bindex%2btext_wp2%3d%252e%26_IXSESSION_%3drEQJ_SMJtWB%26%257bSIMPLE%257d%257band%257d%2524%253f%253a%2524%3dbritish%2bmuseum%2bbiblical%26%2524sort%2b%2540descending%2bart_publish_date%3d%252e&_IXmode=gfx_en&IXMAXHITS=1&IXSR=aVL74SBjZQw&IXSPFX=search/full_gfx/&IXSESSION=rEQJ_SMJtWB&submit-button=summaryIsaiah scroll, written by a Judean scribe around 120 B.C.,
http//www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/05/13/1485989-israel-museum-puts-dead-sea-scroll-on-rare-displayIn 1947, seven ancient scrolls were found in pottery urns in caves in the Judean Desert. The scrolls reached antiquities dealers in Bethlehem, and after many vicissitudes they were gathered in Jerusalem and exhibited at the Shrine of the Book in the Israel Museum. One of the first scrolls to be discovered was a full copy of the Book of Isaiah, which provides important evidence for the text of the Bible that was common in Eretz-Israel at the end of the Second Temple period. In time, more and more fragments of scrolls were discovered, some in caves at Nahal Qumran, some at Masada, and some in other places of the Judean Desert. Scholars believe that the most ancient of these scrolls were written around 250 BCE, whereas the latest ones were written in the early second century CE (after the destruction of the Second Temple and the repression of the Bar-Kokhba Rebellion).
source http//aleppocodex.org/links/7.htmlThe Dead Sea Scrolls date from 250 BCE to 68 CE and are our bridge to a period that laid the foundation of western traditions, beliefs and practices throughout the past two millennia.
source http//www.naturalsciences.org/wnew/2008-02-19_deadseascrolls.htmlThere is your Archeological evidence. They PRE DATE both Muhammad and Isa.
jonny_k I'm surprised you even believe in the Quran. Have you read all the people who claim that it is not authentic and that it has been tampered with etc etc? I could post pages of links where people claim they can prove the Quran is a fraud.
The fact is you are either min al muminoon or min al kafiroon.
Why don't you go read about that for a while.
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace "arnab",
JK- You yourself indirectly agreed that GOD did allow/suggest/command the death penlaty for apostates/blasphemers once. This is enough to know that it cannot be the true Word of GOD. If such were to be the commands/suggestions/laws of GOD then the hadith can also be the inspirations of GOD. The CONTENT plays a VITAL ROLE in deciding whether some scripture is the Word of GOD or not as well. A Book of GOD cannot contain statements which defy all logic and common sense and/or independent verified observations.
There are many different adultery related crimes and the punishment is usually muwt ta-muwt and sometimes stoning is specified (as in Deut 2223-24)
Muwt ta-muwt is used often in the Torah?.it is used after many transgressions as a punishment.
Adam was told he would mout-ta-mout on the day that he ate of the tree in the garden and he did not die until hundreds of years later.(Genesis 217).
Often times the concept of death is turning away from God by transgressing or sinning. Whereas turning back to God and asking for forgiveness, correcting ones ways etc is metaphorically called ?life.?
Eze 1831 Cast away from you all your transgressions, wherein ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 1832 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD; wherefore turn yourselves, and live.Psa 11516 The heavens are the heavens of the LORD; but the earth hath He given to the children of men.
Psa 11517 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence;
Psa 64 (65) Return, O LORD, deliver my soul; save me for Thy mercy's sake.
Psa 65 (66) For in death there is no remembrance of Thee; in the nether-world who will give Thee thanks?
Life is connected with the keeping of God?s law and appoints death for the transgression of it
Lev 185 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments which if a man do, he shall live in them I am the LORD.
Deu 3019 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live
Deu 3020 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him for he is thy life, and the length of thy days that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
Deu 83 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
Muwt/death is used in as many ways in the Bible as it is used in the Quran. Death can be the death of the body, or spiritual death of being removed from God.
The harsh punishment of physical death (muwt ta-muwt) for adultery or other crimes in the OT was a physical punishment that beni Isreal could enforce, but only after a judicial process.
The punishment could be carried out if they took the matter before one of their judges and were found guilty of the crime.
There was a process of
- accusing someone,
- going before a judge (who heard both sides of the stories),
- presenting witnesses
- the judge issuing a sentence
- and the punishment being carried out,
This is much like many judicial systems today.
One could not just arbitrarily start throwing stones at someone based on a suspected crime. LOL
What many forget is that There are chapters and verses on sin offerings and atonement sacrafices that could be made after someone sinned. And then the sin was forgiven and the person could go on with life.
This happened many times with the WHOLE COMMUNITY of beni Isreal. Where Aaron made atonement for their sins (where by full extent of the laws given they could have ALL been stoned to death).
So when people who are unfamiliar with the Torah and pick out a verse without understanding the Torah they become very distressed (like some of our friends here on free-minds). Because they do not understand the system.
The Torah is not written like the Quran. The Quran is more poetically written (like psalms) gives a few verses on a subject and moves on. The Torah has chapters and verses dedicated to a subject and reads like a modern day book. You have to read it from the beginning to end to understand what is going on.
It?s also a book of laws. If one looks at a modern day law book one will see that it is written much the same way as the laws in Leviticus. Yet most judges understand that the punishment is the extreme point that they can go to. Same was true in the Torah.
In fact, there are even laws that read?and if the people do not kill him?.God will set his face against the man and cut him off?.etc etc. (This is not the only verse like this). God was always telling the Isrealites that they should fear him and not the people. And to turn to him and walk in his ways and he would forgive them their inequities.
Lev 201 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying,
Lev 202 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
Lev 203 And I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.
Lev 204 And if the people of the land do any ways hide their eyes from the man, when he giveth of his seed unto Molech, and kill him not
Lev 205 Then I will set my face against that man, and against his family, and will cut him off, and all that go a whoring after him, to commit whoredom with Molech, from among their people.
As for the punishment of adultery In the Injeel
Joh 84 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Joh 85 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned but what sayest thou?
Joh 86 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
Joh 87 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Joh 88 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
Joh 89 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
Joh 810 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
Joh 811 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee go, and sin no more.
Mat 527 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery
Mat 528 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 529 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 530 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 531 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement
Mat 532 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
Isa urged the Isrealites not to be so quick to issue a judgement that was to an extreme. And also urged the people not to be so quick to commit the crime. His admonishment was to both the judges and the transgressors.
Jesus went back to ORIGINAL TORAH and urged transgressors to ADMIT their sins?.ask forgiveness?.and go give the sin offering?.thanking God for his mercy?..INSTEAD of issuing the Punishment that was allowable (not demanded by God but allowed by God).
IF the person went through the repentence/atonement process they could not be punished because they were FORGIVEN.
The judges were not observing the Torah laws because they automatically resorted to violence instead of mercy and not giving the people the option for repentence and the like.
The Quran that tells us that we don?t HAVE to judge (as Isa said judge not lest ye be judged).
The Quran says IF you judge?..judge between them with equity. We can forego judgement and that is better. Because man can only see what is apparent but God sees what is without and within?.therefore man can be deceived and wrong in his judgement?.and man could punish another unfairly (due to not knowing all the facts)
(They are) listeners of a lie, devourers of what is forbidden; therefore if they come to you, judge between them or turn aside from them, and if you turn aside from them, they shall not harm you in any way; and if you judge, judge between them with equity; surely Allah loves those who judge equitably.
JK- Actually i dont beleive that the scripture has been distorted AND THIS IS YOUR FALLACY OF UNDERSTANDING ME. I just say that JUST BECAUSE CERTAIN RELIGIOUS GROUPS NAME THEIR BOOKS TORAH, INJEEL, ETC DOESNT MEAN THAT THEY REALLY ARE. Get it?
You are wrong. Full stop.
(but of course you would rather argue with me....someone who KNOWS rather than use your BRAIN and discover I am right....LOL)
There is carbon dating and discoveries of texts that pre-date both Muhammad and Isa and are the same texts that we have with us today. This is scientific evidence.
Like I said before, your either min al muminoon aw min al kafiroon.
Salam,
Arnab -
Peace "arnab",
Did you forget to read THIS from the SAME PAGE as the link you provided (which I was already familiar with by the way)
The oldest known preserved fragment of a Torah text is a good luck charm inscribed with a text close to, although not identical with, the Priestly Blessing found in Num 624?27, dated to approximately 600 BC (Dever, p. 180). The oldest complete or nearly complete texts are the Dead Sea Scrolls from the middle of the 2nd century BC to the 1st century AD. The DSS contain almost all the books of the Tanakh, although not all are complete.
source http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible#Oldest_manuscripts
The Masoretic Text, written in Hebrew, became the standard authorized Hebrew text around 100 AD. It existed prior to the writings of the New Testament, confirmed by the Dead Sea Scrolls as early as 168 B.C., and was used as the official Hebrew Old Testament at the time the biblical canon was established.
source http//www.allabouttruth.org/oldest-bible-version-faq.htmBRITISH MUSEUM MAKES IMPORTANT BREAKTHROUGH IN BIBLICAL ARCHAEOLOGY
Rare cuniform tablet
source http//www.24hourmuseum.org.uk/ixbin/hix?IXFIRST=4&IXSS=IXFIRST%3d1%26_IXmode%3dgfx_en%26%2524%2528news%2bor%2bexhibition%2529%2bin%2bart_section%2bindex%2btext_wp2%3d%252e%26_IXSESSION_%3drEQJ_SMJtWB%26%257bSIMPLE%257d%257band%257d%2524%253f%253a%2524%3dbritish%2bmuseum%2bbiblical%26%2524sort%2b%2540descending%2bart_publish_date%3d%252e&_IXmode=gfx_en&IXMAXHITS=1&IXSR=aVL74SBjZQw&IXSPFX=search/full_gfx/&IXSESSION=rEQJ_SMJtWB&submit-button=summaryIsaiah scroll, written by a Judean scribe around 120 B.C.,
http//www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/05/13/1485989-israel-museum-puts-dead-sea-scroll-on-rare-displayIn 1947, seven ancient scrolls were found in pottery urns in caves in the Judean Desert. The scrolls reached antiquities dealers in Bethlehem, and after many vicissitudes they were gathered in Jerusalem and exhibited at the Shrine of the Book in the Israel Museum. One of the first scrolls to be discovered was a full copy of the Book of Isaiah, which provides important evidence for the text of the Bible that was common in Eretz-Israel at the end of the Second Temple period. In time, more and more fragments of scrolls were discovered, some in caves at Nahal Qumran, some at Masada, and some in other places of the Judean Desert. Scholars believe that the most ancient of these scrolls were written around 250 BCE, whereas the latest ones were written in the early second century CE (after the destruction of the Second Temple and the repression of the Bar-Kokhba Rebellion).
source http//aleppocodex.org/links/7.htmlThe Dead Sea Scrolls date from 250 BCE to 68 CE and are our bridge to a period that laid the foundation of western traditions, beliefs and practices throughout the past two millennia.
source http//www.naturalsciences.org/wnew/2008-02-19_deadseascrolls.htmlThere is your Archeological evidence. They PRE DATE both Muhammad and Isa.
jonny_k I'm surprised you even believe in the Quran. Have you read all the people who claim that it is not authentic and that it has been tampered with etc etc? I could post pages of links where people claim they can prove the Quran is a fraud.
The fact is you are either min al muminoon or min al kafiroon.
Why don't you go read about that for a while.
Salam,
ArnabJK- 1st just because they predate both Isa and Muhammad does not mean theyre linked to Moses WHOSE VERY EXISTENCE YET REMAINS TO BE PROVEN. 2ndly the DSS are not exactly similar to the masocretic Hebrew manuscripts
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_scrolls#Significance
"Although a few of the biblical manuscripts found at Qumran differ significantly from the Masoretic text, most do not."
So there goes the argument of preservation of these manuscripts. As i said the only reasonable way for GOD to protect a scripture is via a numerical structure and in regards to the Bible ive only seen Gen 11 and John 11 exhibiting a signficant enough pattern to be from GOD
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13465.0
Last but not least i admit that even the entire Quran has NOT been revealed to us as yet. To claim it has would be living in denial. GOD Bless!