Zeitgeist
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I need an explanation to understanding something. I was watching on Youtube, the Zeitgeist video on Christianity, where they basically debunk it by saying that the story of Jesus is based on the Ancient Egyptian story of Horus who was born on the 25th of December, had a virgin birth, died on the cross, and was resurrected after three days. The video points that Horus is not the only god with these characteristics but there are numerous dieties in different cultures with the exact same story. They present strong straight facts that make a lot of sense, and go in accordance with a lot of what Islam says about Jesus.
However, the problem starts with Moses. According to the video the story of moses is also plagerised, and there were many prophets and law givers in other cultures such as Minos, Manou, and Mises who had the same story, specifically the story of Moses going up a mountain to get the commandments and then coming down only to find his people worshipping an animal statue made of gold. If that is true, doesn't it also debunk Islam, since we believe in the exact same story? Does anyone have an explanation?
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=YARj-3yu8mc
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Peace to all,
Confused , its ok to be confused but you should try to remember a few things, first, the Quran and Islam doesnt teach the exact same story as Zeitgeist and christian theology does, I beleive jesus was real and that he was a messenger of God with his true message, but as for all the rest of the deatails we will never know and its not important anyways, so im sure as always happens in history one persons hero or myth becomes incoroporated into other cultures or from them, so im sure the early christians became romanized, and the early story of jesus was filled in and changed with all kinds of silly myths and legends that have nothing to do with him or his message, but that doesnt mean he wasnt real. And the same goes for Moses,, since Quran says he was a real prophet and messenger I also believe that, but so what if his story has been added to or changed over the years, its not important, just his message from ONE GOd is. So dont try to blame God and Islam for mans errors and corruptions cause if you do you will only be following conjecture and delusions of others, as for the stories in the Quran, they are from God so we should judge man based on Gods standards and dont judge God based on mans standards. Hope this helped.
Kurt
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Peace
Firstly, correct research should be done regarding what Zeitgeist is saying, before any serious concern comes to you. One must understand - "what is the purpose of making these statements? Why are they debunking Christianity? What does it lend to the audiences emotive provocation as they watch the film?" - it is exactly what it is, provocation. Whether for Atheists to further grow hardened and aggressive towards believers or for Theists to get rattled/shaken, so that the next two chapters in the film can fall on readily accepting ears. Once one gets that you can conduct your own unbias research to the best of your ability. But then we should always look at two sides of the stories, HISTORICAL accounts can be used to wrangle the wills of men just as efficiently as religious scriptures. A little scan I did to show real similarities
Manu/Manou In Hinduism, Manu is a title accorded the progenitor of mankind, first king to rule this earth, who saves mankind from the universal flood. He is honest which is why he is called "Satyavrata", or oath of truth.
So why didn't they compare him to Noah?Menes is the name of the Egyptian pharaoh credited with founding the First dynasty, sometime around 3100 BC. Menes was seen as a founding figure for much of the history of Ancient Egypt, and was possibly a mythical founding king similar to Romulus and Remus for Ancient Rome.
Is there any reference in the Qur'an as to when Moses was among the Egyptians? Is Pharoah actually called Pharoah in the Qur'an? He is not, he is called Firon.Mannus is a Germanic mythological character attested by the 1st century Roman historian Tacitus in his work Germania. According to Tacitus, Mannus is the son of the earth-born Tuisto and the ancestor and founder of the three Germanic tribes Ingvaeones, Herminones and Istaevones.
Wheres the relevance to Moses, just that his name begins with M? I thought Abraham would be more similar as his seed resulted in the twelve tribes.As for Christ, the complete deification and relation of him to the Sun bears no relevance in the Qur'an. The Virgin Birth is NOT an explicit statement in the Qur'an. The Qur'ans main argument regarding Jesus is that he was a man, he was not His Son, his Mother was not the Mother of God, thatJesus was NOT crucified and then resurrected and that Jesus was not born how it is described in the Nativity (a strong point the makers of Zeitgeist seem to revel in). This seems to be completely outside of Zeitgeist's jurisdiction. The belief in Jesus Christ does not mean you believe in the falsified stories of the Roman Catholic Church and Gnostic Christians. The scary thing is Christian beliefs has crept into the translation of the Qur'an in many places for example wrt Jesus death described as a rising up to God, when Jesus died. God explains that when we die we all return to Him so Jesus death is no different to ours. The main reason for these translations is the Hadith. So even reading translations of the Qur'an we must be weary that it is not infact the Qur'an, the only Qur'an is in Arabic.
Allah receiveth (men's) souls at the time of their death, and that (soul) which dieth not (yet) in its sleep. He keepeth that (soul) for which He hath ordained death and dismisseth the rest till an appointed term. Lo! herein verily are portents for people who take thought.
3942Hope this helped.
Peace
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Soof, thanks for the explanation. What surprised me was the story of Moses coming from the Mountain and finding his people worshipping a golden animal, and dropping the plates with the commandments. It just seems to be repeated in so many cultures.
I'm not sure why you say the virgin birth was not stated in the Quran, when the verse clearly says "how can I be pregnant If I was not touched by a human being." Can it be clearer than that?
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Peace
There is a Virgin Mary thread in the Qur'an Divinity section that has been taken to exhaustive extents.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16187.0
Never take verses out alone. What does it actually say about Mary
"And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her Our Spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a perfect man. She said Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art Allah-fearing.
He said I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
She said How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste?
He said So (it will be). Thy Lord saith It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.
And she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place."
1917-22Up to the point of meeting the form of a perfected man she was a Virgin. From this point we understand she conceived Jesus. But we know from reading the Qur'an, God speaks out of time, so if He says AND something happens, it does not necessarily mean it did or did not happen immediately (be and it is). There is nothing to tell us she was a virgin after conception. When God refers to her she says she maintained her chastity. Every believer is told to guard their chastity until marriage and Mary is an example. As a reward for being chaste, she was given Jesus as her son. So that she may be an example (of chastity and righteousness) along with Jesus Christ. My opinion is that whether she is a virgin or not is not relevant to the message of Jesus. Whereas Christians make a very big thing out of it as do western Atheists who disbelieve in Christianity - the only Abrahamic religion they come in contact with.
Peace
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Soof, thanks for the explanation. What surprised me was the story of Moses coming from the Mountain and finding his people worshipping a golden animal, and dropping the plates with the commandments. It just seems to be repeated in so many cultures.
I'm not sure why you say the virgin birth was not stated in the Quran, when the verse clearly says "how can I be pregnant If I was not touched by a human being." Can it be clearer than that?
Peace
Show me which cultures.
Peace