"Obey God and obey the messenger" verse

Al_Araf

Salam samia. First let me inform you I find your English grammar and sentence construction to be very poor. This hinders a rational analysis of your post. I dont say this as a personal affront, I say this in an effort to explain to you why you are not being understood.

You state "You just ignore all what I wrote and stick to the "last"? I did not just throw the meaning khatim means last, I reached it throw the original meaning of "to authenticate". Now tell me, how can the prophet authenticate some one who claims to be prophet now? If this is impossible, it means that by being the authenticator he is also the last. If you have a different conclusion, please share it with us"

Youre completely wrong in your assumption that I ignored what you wrote and "stick" to the last. Look what you just did yourself, you said "it means by being the authenticator he is also the last" You yourself are sticking to the last. Please think what you are saying before you write.

You have in fact said "it means" "by being the authenticator" "he is also the last" I see you again trying to reach around to the word last, which does not exist in the verse, by claiming authenticator is some sort of intermediary, which it is not.

This is an exercise in your addition of "authenticator" and "last" You know very well that addition to the Quran is prohibited and haram. I do not have a different conclusion. I let the Quran speak for itself. You do not have a conclusion, you are adding to the Quran. If you persist in adding to the Quran in your bad attempt to change the word of Allah, I assure you no good will come of this. Does the Quran not say there are people who change words from their places and such people are evil? Why do you keep trying to go to the word last, no matter how you do it, when the word last is not there. Allah is not daeef that he needs samia to improve on his Quran. Do you understand that? Allah says "seal" submit like a believer and say "seal"

Allah is mighty wise.

huruf

Let me remind you, AlAraf, that the Qur'aan doesn't say "seal", it says "khatm".The "seal" it is you who says, not the Qur'aan.

Salaam

Samia

Salam samia. First let me inform you I find your English grammar and sentence construction to be very poor. This hinders a rational analysis of your post. I dont say this as a personal affront, I say this in an effort to explain to you why you are not being understood.

So you did not understand what I was saying?

anthonywallace

Or do they have idols ( Muhammad ) who decrees for them a system that Allah has not authorized?

belH

Or do they have idols ( Muhammad ) who decrees for them a system that Allah has not authorized?

Please do not state that Mohammad = Idols;
If you meant something else, please clear it for us.

unknownuser

Or do they have idols ( Muhammad ) who decrees for them a system that Allah has not authorized?

Salam,

I can't speak for Anthonywallace, but my understanding of his statement was that a lot of people idolize Muhammad just as there are many people who idolize Jesus. They do this with statues (in the case of Jesus), wanting to copy every single move they think Muhammad made (using hadith).

Of course, since I was not the author of the statement this is based entirely on my own thoughts and opinions.

Perhaps Anthonywallace will clarify his statement for us.

Salam,
Arnab

Al_Araf

Salam samia. Please read the complete paragraph which contained one sentence "why you are not being understood" I composed the paragraph to contain a a thought. That one sentence is not the complete thought. Let me repeat the grammar and sentence construction is poor, it HINDERS a rational analysis of your post. You picked out the last sentence. The last sentence is my informing you that your English is hard, not impossible to understand.

May I use the example of the "last" issue to demonstrate the problem. A reader who reads in your post that you are protesting, that it is wrong to conclude that there is a fixation with the word last, is very surprised to find, you went in a circle and again concluded that muhammad is the last through the intermediate term authenticator.

This makes no sense to a reader directly. The first thought a reader has is, why did samia protest, saying she didnt mean last, and then right after that say last. The reader tries to believe that samia is a rational person who would not contradict herself, however samia's words prevent such a conclusion. The only other alternative is the reader has to believe that samia's English is poor, and she is unaware that her grammatical errors are creating the apparent contradiction.

The other part to the post which is the hop, skip, and jump, from seal-authenticator-last, with no explanation of how your mind went from one word to the other, is at the least confusing, or, is a shortcoming in your ability to present an opinion. Please give your reader the rational basis why you made this jump from one word to the other, dont assume people can read your mind.

If your post, so you did not understand what I was saying, was intended to be sarcastic, and a barely concealed claim that the reason why this debate has occurred is that I have a shortcoming in my ability to comprehend, let me disavov you of your misconception.

Allah is mighty wise.

Al_Araf

Salam huruf. You read my post, you saw me enclose the term seal in inverted commas like this, "seal" We know Allah said khatam.

Did you just find out Allah said khatam?

Allah is the discrimination.

unknownuser

Salam samia. Please read the complete paragraph which contained one sentence "why you are not being understood" I composed the paragraph to contain a a thought. That one sentence is not the complete thought. Let me repeat the grammar and sentence construction is poor, it HINDERS a rational analysis of your post. You picked out the last sentence. The last sentence is my informing you that your English is hard, not impossible to understand.

May I use the example of the "last" issue to demonstrate the problem. A reader who reads in your post that you are protesting, that it is wrong to conclude that there is a fixation with the word last, is very surprised to find, you went in a circle and again concluded that muhammad is the last through the intermediate term authenticator.

This makes no sense to a reader directly. The first thought a reader has is, why did samia protest, saying she didnt mean last, and then right after that say last. The reader tries to believe that samia is a rational person who would not contradict herself, however samia's words prevent such a conclusion. The only other alternative is the reader has to believe that samia's English is poor, and she is unaware that her grammatical errors are creating the apparent contradiction.

The other part to the post which is the hop, skip, and jump, from seal-authenticator-last, with no explanation of how your mind went from one word to the other, is at the least confusing, or, is a shortcoming in your ability to present an opinion. Please give your reader the rational basis why you made this jump from one word to the other, dont assume people can read your mind.

If your post, so you did not understand what I was saying, was intended to be sarcastic, and a barely concealed claim that the reason why this debate has occurred is that I have a shortcoming in my ability to comprehend, let me disavov you of your misconception.

Allah is mighty wise.

Salam Al Araf,

Very well written.

Thank you for pointing out the problem that some us were experiencing in an eloquent fashion.

Salam,
Arnab

anthonywallace

Peace,

I dont know right about now.

And i agree with Arnab.

Do Muhamad decree for them the hadith that God has not authorized? Is the Question... Yes or no...

And yes the dividers do set up ( idolize muhammad ) next to God.

God is the stage name! God alone. Do not set up anything at all with your Lord.

And our proofs that they do is the hadiths they use. They talk to Muhammad when they salat. Thus, they have lost the salat, . As if he can hear them...They dont have any proof for what they say...Read the communion book and see if it was authorized by God...

Do not go to visit anyone alongside God.

Those whoes name you say are servants like you.

I probly got off topic, but like i say, it really is a question.

peace

belH

Peace,

I dont know right about now.

And i agree with Arnab.

Do Muhamad decree for them the hadith that God has not authorized? Is the Question... Yes or no...

And yes the dividers do set up ( idolize muhammad ) next to God.

God is the stage name! God alone. Do not set up anything at all with your Lord.

And our proofs that they do is the hadiths they use. They talk to Muhammad when they salat. Thus, they have lost the salat, . As if he can hear them...They dont have any proof for what they say...Read the communion book and see if it was authorized by God...

Do not go to visit anyone alongside God.

Those whoes name you say are servants like you.

I probly got off topic, but like i say, it really is a question.

peace

Thank you and May God Bless

afridi220

The Dictionary Meaning of the Word 'Khatam-al-Nabiyyin'

It is evident that the text can bear one meaning and it is that Khatam-al-Nabiyyin stands for the Finality of Prophethood with a clear implication that the prophethood has been culminated and finalized in Muhammad (PBUH). It is not only the context that supports this interpretation but also the lexicography.

According to Arabic lexicon and the linguistic usage Khatam means to affix seal; to close, to come to an end; and to carry something to its ultimate end.

Khatama al-'Amala is equivalent to 'Faragha min al-'Almali' which means 'to get over with the task.' 'Khatama al-Ina' bears the meaning 'The vessel has been closed and sealed so that nothing can go into it, nor can its contents spill out.'

'Khatam-al-kitab' conveys the meaning 'The letter has been enclosed and sealed so that it is finally secured.'

'Khatama-'Ala-al-Qalb' means 'The heart has been sealed so that it cannot perceive anything new nor can it forswear what it has already imbibed.'

'Khitamu-Kulli-Mashrubin' implies 'the final taste that is left in the mouth when the drink is over.'

Katimatu Kulli Shaiinn 'Aqibatuhu wa Akhiratuhu means "The end in the case of everything denotes its doom and ultimate finish." Khatm-ul-Shaii Balagha Akhirahu conveys the sense, "To end a thing means to carry it to its ultimate limit."

The term Khatam-i-Qur'an is used in the similar sense and the closing verses of Qur'anic Surahs are referred to as Khawatim. Khatim-ul-Qaum Akhirhuum means "The last man in the tribe." (Refer to Lisan-ul-'Arab; Qamus and Aqrab-ul- Muwarid).

For this reason all linguists and commentators agree that Khatam-ul-Nabiyyin means 'The Last in the line of Prophets.' The word Khatam in its dictionary meaning and linguistic usage does not refer to the post office stamp which is affixed on the outgoing mail. Its literal meaning is the 'seal' which is but on the envelope to secure its contents

unknownuser