Peace to all

Thank u Wakas for opening this topic,

When I started reading Quran with free-minds translation I never felt the meaning of the 2238 verse has got any thing to do with routine or obligatory salat which one should perform after having ablution at prescribed times. In an earlier discussion one year ago a brother who started reading Quran for the first time brought up the following meaning of those disputed verse. Perhaps he was not yet moulded with the pre-assumptions to match the meanings of the verses with those similar to the traditional beliefs.

Later I used to follow that method of deriving the meaning of Quran without any pre-assumptions even though it was difficult for me to come out of the mould created by the sediments of traditions practised for almost 30 years.

If you examine these verses from 2221 to 240 all the verses are about marriage, relation ships in the marriage and then divorce/death and again remarriage outlined in a particular sequence.

In 2221 we get an idea about whom we generally should marry then goes to the subject of sexual relation ship ie sexual relationship to be avoided during menstruation 2222and says we can approach them once they are clean as how God taught us. The approach or relation ship towards the woman is given by an example 2223? as an approach similar to a cultivation and towards goodness. Then slowly go to the topic of disputes in the relation ship- 2224/225 says not to be strict on casual oaths in which couple often interchange words. Then comes to the point of serious oaths of divorce 2226. bythe following verse Allah gives the guide line for ending the relation ships in different circumstances , First divorce which u can remarry and the duration abstaining from them and then second divorce again in which you can remarry- gives guidelines to settle the dowry. Then gives the laws of third divorce- at this point one can remarry only after she is married to a third party and after getting divorced. Next verse gives the guideline how to treat them after the divorce that they should not be prevented from remarrying. Then goes to the topic of the children they give birth in terms of suckling and the responsibilities of husband and wife.
Then it deals with the topic of women in 2234 where they loose their husband by death and in 2235 it teaches how to propose to those widows and getting married to them.

Then again comes to the topic of special divorce where women get divorced before the sexual relation ship. 2236-237

This is a very special circumstance where a woman get married and getting divorced before/after fixing the dowry but before any sexual contacts. This is not a normal thing to happen but again Quran is fully detailed and nothing is missed out.

Let us try to examine the next verses.

2238 Maintain the bonds; and a balanced bond; and stand for God dutifully
2239 But if you are in a state of fear, then you may do so while walking or riding. If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.
And then next verse 2240 And for those of you whose lives are terminated and they leave widows behind; a testimony to them that they may enjoy for one year without being made to vacate. If they leave then there is no sin upon you for what they do to themselves in goodness; and God is Noble, Wise.

If the sequence of narration is about marriage, relation ship, divorce ,death and then special divorce then 2238 and 239 also should talk about the same subject and not about daily routine or obligatory salat which one should perform after having ablution at prescribed times, since 2240 is again dealing with topic of the woman whose husband lives are terminated.

Now when we look at this peculiar situation of some body getting married as in verse 2236-237 and he gets a call for war. There is no guarantee he will comeback alive. So whoever in the situation of fear of death or war can divorce their women if he has not entered into a sexual relation ship with his wife and there is no sin on him.

On this context if we read the verse 2238 Maintain the bonds; and a balanced bond; and stand for God dutifully (? do not use the meaning? prayer? or ?blessings ? for salat) . This bond is talking about the bond between the woman who got divorced and her husband who divorced her beacuse of his life is in fear . This bond should be a moderate/balanced (al wusta) one and be dutiful to God ( ie fear God) that means not to exceed the limits or boundaries - do not get into deep relationship or not to hurt them by taking back all the dowries.

Once the fear is over
2239 But if you are in a state of fear, then you may do so while walking or riding.(they can do the bonding) If you become secure, then remember God as He has taught you what you did not know.

That means once fear of death is over he can always comeback to her as how God has taught us in the previous verse, ie the remarriage. If he dies woman is allowed to remarry without the prescribed period of 4 months and 10 days.

Next verse 2240 further details about a woman who did not get divorced and looses her husband while in fear.
2241 says about how to treat a divorced woman.

So think about the circumstance somebody gets married and before having a sexual relationship he has to go for a war and he dies. What happens to the woman if she was not divorced before the war she has to wait for 4 months and 10 days before she can remarry.
This is a very important topic where Allah has set out the guide lines so that these women do not suffer. These circumstances might have been common in those times when they had frequent wars.

I don?t think Almighty suddenly brought the subject of routine salat in between the subject of marriage, relation ship , divorce/ death and remarriage. Here when we use word ?bonding? instead of ?prayers? or ?blessing? for salat ( which also suits in other contexts where it is used in Quran) the verse talks about the bonding between a couple who gets divorced before having a sexual relationship.

So the question of third timing of routine salat does not exist.

abdu

peace to you dotty,
You and your family are added in my prayers.

As Al Araf correctly pointed out the story of Moosa travelling with an Angel is the story always I look into when I face hardship. God has well described it in 3 good examples. Patience and faith is the key.

We can approach hardships in the following ways 1. To acknowledge that "some thing better is coming for us."
2. To acknowledge that "it is God's way of testing our patience and eeman."(.-ie God has chosen us and we got the elegibility to give the test paper.We should welcome the oppurtunity and try to earn as much point as possible.)
3. To acknowledge that " some thing we have to check ourselves in our life with regards to eeman or deeds" - it should be treated as a small dose or a shock or a warning or small punishments from the almighty to keep us in right track.(Probably the things which do not have any link to the situation even.). For example when our children behave badly to us and we feel bad. we should not stop limit our thoughts analysing only the those matters involving directly with our children or even limited to our dealings with our own parents. Instead you can consider the matters like you did not take care of your salat properly, might have a ignored a "miskeen" who was infront of you, I the business we have done something unfair to the customer,
4. To acknolwedge the fact that "each individual has got varying levels of capacity to take burden- More hardship one face that means more capacity he has got within himself. ". We should trust in almighty that he will not burden us more than we cannot bear and not be proud on our capacity levels and should be humble enough to seek help from almighty to not to overburden. (Some people think they can take any levels of hardships since they are mentally and physically strong)". Person who has got vision and who is blind is not same. A person who has vision will be given more responbility and will be rewarded on the basis how he handled the responsibility. A person with vision who handled responsiblity in a righteous way would be preferred and better rewarded by God than blind man who has not committed any crime or any bad deeds.
5. To believe that for every hardsips there is a happiness attached with it.
6. To believe that like waves in the ocean-hardships come one after the other we have to face until we meet our lord.
7. to believe that if only happiness and no hardships are seen in God has not included us in his favourites list -for God says for the disbelivers he has given a time in this world in which they can enjoy and live happy, later he will catch them on a surprise where they cannot go back to correct the mistake and God knows very well that even if they were given the oppurtunity to go back they will not realise.
Even phrophets used to shiver infront of Almighty's test and to cry for mercy and say when God will shower with the blessing. The point is -phropets who supposed to have better mental capacity could shiver infront of God's way of testing what could be our condition. What we call hardsips or challenges will be dealt in different manner by different individual depending on their habits,upbringing, their profession, their skills and their ambitions etc.
Example
A person who is an athlete will take a situation when his car is broke down on the way as an oppurtunity to practise his walking skills but a trader may see it as a loss of time and energy where he lost an oppurtunity to sell a client. One thinks positive and other thinks negative on the similar situation.

The above are based on my life experience and based on Al Quran. I honestly did not quote evidences or verses from quran because I am bit lazy and I want to post my views at the earliest so that I can move to the next assignment.
Think positively about life .With all the difficulties and problems we face still we can believe we are better off and among the priveleged ones when look to the sufferings out there.
Al Hamdu lillahi rabbil alameen.

Abdu

peace to you mmKhan

A small suggestion brother, if you think about others (as you say "people may think....&quot, you will forget yourself and you may lead yourself towards the wrong path. So, let people think what they like. And you should be always open for corrections. IMHO, no one can say I am perfect, we need to change ourself every now and then to be on a right path. It is better to take a start with whatever is comfirmed to you from Allah.

Yes. I dont have to think about others once I am convinced that I am in right direction. But until i verify myself and given some time to the matter get settled then only i have to give dawah or invite people to our thoughts. Sometimes people follow us even without any invitation or advise or even with out our knowledge (especially when you lead a life of a leader or a righteous way doing good to people in different sects of life).Since we take decision mostly on knowledge and wisdom,We can change our positions in life . Lot of people out there they simply follow a leader thinking leader is always right. So when the leader change the way to a right direction after some time , some followers may not recognise or they are in a weak position mentally or physically and they continue in the same direction. Especially the people who follow you and you dont know that they are following you.

There are lot of young people I know praying 5 times a day with lot of difficulty. Since they are lazy ,they are just waiting for some one who is in a respectable position to say that you dont have to pray 5 times daily instead twice a day is enough- to reduce the no of timings without hurting their conscience. This people hear only what they like to hear ie shortening of prayer and nothing more than that and they will say they have learnt it from me. They are not seeing the important issue behind that. Then I have to bear the reponsibility of all their misdeeds as well.
Perhaps it would be difficult for them if I say to increase the no of salat. These are the reasons mainly I want to keep things for myself atleast for the time being. There are other reasons as well that we will discuss later.
Thank you for advise and support
Abdu.

Peace to you brother mmKhan

At sunset? I am to break my fast at that time. Because I felt that this is planned and spread nicely amoung Muslims after Prophet Mohammed in order to void their fasts by breaking it just before completion. Anyways... these are my personal thoughts.

You are probably right .Lot of things i practise now,may be nothing to do with Islam and that is because of my ignorance and not because of arrogance Joining this forum itself is one step to come out of the darkness. I really pray to God to forgive me for whatever I did and I do due to my ignorance.

This is always better to verify on our own. inshaAllah.

BTW, where are you from?

I should verify myself - Else, people may think i am crazy doing some thing for days or month and again do something else or even think i am not even trustworthy. so i want to take some time, study, verify and convince myself then execute the changes. My family probably may not even verify and may follow me blindly and I dont want them to be confused.
I am from Kerala, South India.
Abdu

Salaam Abdu and welcome aboard

Thank you for sharing your story with us. I hope you will learn, and you will definitely contribute even by just asking questions and making others think about a response.
And do not forget to read the forum rules. It's free-minds, but with discipline
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8177.0

Peace to you samia,
Thank you very much for keeping and maintaining this site and for reminding me about the forum rules. I haven't gone through that yet. You are absolutely right it should be with discipline.
abdu

Peace to you brother mmKhan
I haven't given too much of thought about the timing of breaking fast and I break the fast at time of sunset and delay my salat to the darkeness of the night. I should verify it myself. Any way my office timing is 7.00 to 1.00 but I work in my own timings normally 9am to 3pm or 4pm depending on work load.
Abdu

Peace to you mmKhan,

Good to see you with good eeman even after what had happend to you and sharing your experience will definitely bring lot of confidence and courage to us especially when we are in minority.
abdu.

Peace to you mmKhan,

I am in Hor Al Anz area and probably i can see you in coming days. I am bit busy this week with some training programmes to my client but certainly we shall meet in the coming week before eid . If you are willing why dont you join us for iftar next week.
abdu

peaceto you dotty,

My mom has done her hajj around 6 years back.I haven't done my hajj yet.I told her let us go together for hajj this year after the normal hajj period without any sunni guides teling us what to do(stoning satan and going in rags etc ) and what not to do and to perfrom a proper hajj as per quran. That was the time she questioned me about the sunni scholars of mecca, how could they go wrong. when i replied to her about the pope of vatican she said she can understands what i am saying but i should to do more rearch on the subject and verify it well before taking a big leap. My wife understand the reason behind it and she is already quran alone follower and she is heping me to find worship practises as per quran. I didnt force her to follow my thoughts it should be a decision to be made individually. Similary my cousin also is interested in quran only and she wants my advice on this. Again What i told her was even she should not follow me blindly you go to verify yourself because god wil question her based on what she learned using her brains and I dont want some thing like brain washing( she is few years older to me in her early forties). But heir father was so furious against me during one of the iftar gathering to make such a radical statements against hadeeth and follow only quran.I said I am not here to force you to follow my thoughts and I just want to inspire you learning quran in a different way and if you wish to benefit out of it , it is upto you. I will be solely responsible for my deeds in front of almighty and motive is nothing but to find the straight path. then he said "Lakhum deenukkum wali ya deen". In the next iftar gathering also everybody wanted me to have a discussion on the subject. But, I kept quiet since I need to learn a lot and ii will not be right to make some comments without proper knowledge since these discussion may lead to the extend where i have to say for every thing i have to refer it and i will come back. But one thing i am sure that they all see my sincerity on the subject.

Salaam and welcome,

I quoted the above because my husband used to say the same thing. My answer to him was... "You think christians are wrong and there are millions of them, so why can't millions of muslims be wrong too?" That was a few years back and now he follows the Quran with no other books, thanks God!

Anyway, glad to have you here. May God guide and bless you!

peace,
dotty

peace dotty,
Even today my mom asked me " how could the scholars of mecca and millions who follow them go wrong" . My answer was " If pope in vatican who has lot of knowledge and wisdom can go wrong about Jesus and millions of christains do follow him, so why can't sunni scholars in mecca be wrong too?". This is one of the simple questions similar to one you quoted which kept me away from the main sect of muslims.

May God guide all of us in the straight path.
abdu.

Peace to you aalmakto ,

thank you very much

abdu

salamu alikkum brother,
Sorry to hear that you lost your family and kids but these are testing from God. You stick to your belief ,as Roshan said please take of yourself in dubai especially with quran only.
i am in duabi for last 14 years i know what it is. hamdullillah my wife supports me ang i took a decision not to go in public with quran only stuff especially infront of wahabis.I have yet to find another quran aloner in dubai and i have to learn a lot since i already wasted precious time behind hadith (but still i read them to see the blunders made by men) For the time being it is "lakkum dheenukkum waliya deen".
Insallah you will find peace in your life but be patient and stick to the belief without any corruption and invoke every thing top God alone.
abdu

Peace to all,
I am a middle aged bussiness man working in the field of Fuel gas piping in Dubai (Indian origin) I was brought up in a christian environment where we were only the muslim family in the whole 5 sqm area. My father put we three brothers under sunni muslim(salafi/Wahabi/mujahid) to read and understand quran and the religion. So I followed the prayers and other traditions and thought we were progressive muslims(and true muslims!) as we were bit different fro other realtives since they used to go to the tombs of the saints. We used to have constant arguments with christian friends regarding the bible being corrupted( referred from Ahmedh deedat leaflets and later Zakir Naik's videos). In due course I asked the same question if the book of God(bible) could get corrupted how come we could follow these hadiths which are man made and that too after 1400 years after Prophet Mohamad. I asked this question to my friends who used to debate between each other on issues in sunnahs "on how many rakas to pray for taraweeh, whether to put hand on chest or stomach, or about the language of friday sermon "etc. They all quote hadiths in arabic and explain the meanings and used to have heated arguments but they unite against me when i say why i cant we leave hadiths and follow only quran in which we dont have any arguments. They say" My knowledge about the relgion is very basic and doesnt even owe a reply"- and the popular question they asked me was how do I pray without hadiths or sunah.
Then I got deep into business and used to pray whenever I feel gulty or in need of God not bothered too much in relegious studies and even i used to make my own rule books that suited me to defend my conscience regarding wordly matters(good and bad). SThen i made huge loss in business and somebody told me to pray thahajjud. I did these prayers daily without fail aboot 11 rakkahs after getting up in the night(when god come to the nearest sky and replies the prayers)Still i was going worse to worse in the businees when the timing was all good for the business in the middle east.
Then i got attached with tableeq jamaat when they came and invited to the near by masjid. Slowly I got to their system to live as per sahabis followed the relegion. They taught me how to eat , how to brush, how to walk etc,I put up a long beard, cut my long hairs (Honeslty they did not compel me any thing- but since i was there to learn their school of thoughts and live with them i have to be in their uniform- sincerely I was attracted to their humbleness and dedication to spread relegion -dawwah)I followed all their sunnahs(I wanted to stay in top when i meet Allah without missing any sunnahs-lots of lots of reward for each sunnahs) to the extend i started carrying "miswak" a kind of twig to brush before every prayers. I practised maximum sunnahs possible - i took out all the photpgraphs, pictures and stopped watching films , musics etc. I used to pray around 50 to 56 rakkahs a day and limbs used to swell. So my friends and relatives advised me dont be so hard on the relegion be moderate dont follow too much of sunnahs. I said i dont want to leave even a single act even it is small in the relgion which would bring me rewards for me in the life after. To reply them how important is to follow sunnah and hadith of prophet mohammad i started searching the hadiths in web. The search is web took me first to submission.org and then to other sites discussing quran only subjects ( which are mostly banned in U.A.E). I used to ask God's help to guide me in right path and took a u-turn to get out of all the traditions and dedicated my time to follow and understand quran instead of spending time in learning how many rewards i would get on cleaning the teeth with twig and which side to sleep and take ablution every time i loose wudu'. Now life is much simple . eeman is also strong as i am relying only on the supreme power and not any more on mortals or any silly traditions.
i have not shown my clean face without beard (My wife and mom really hated me for that long beard and were so happy to see my face again&quotto my "sunni colleagues" and they are very anxious where i got dissappeared not even gone to pray a single taraweeh in the masjid.
I am really glad to see free views and thought in this forum without any external pressure which invoke our thoughts and help guide get the right faith. Sorry for my long introduction and first time i am joining any of these forums and i dont know how to use the emotional icons even.(I am getting old)
since most of the messages i read in this site are really from intelligent young people i may not be able to offer you much instead i could learn lot from you.
May God bless you all.
abdu