peace Aisha,

Sorry to be a stickler an all, but you never answered my questions

what is it that they test for when the child is dead to confirm this condition? and how proven is this test?
and what do they think happens during pregnancy that you alluded to previously?

You keep saying it is biological, and I would like to know what exactly.

Peace

Im sorry i missed those questions.

In 8-14 week of pregnancy the hypotalamus gland (were our gender is in the brain) develop in one way, and the genitals in the other...
No one knows why that is, but most of the researches tells its genetic, and that perhaps hormones has something to do with the development.
It has been done tests on some subjects in the brain on dead transsexuals, on homosexuals and on "normal" ppl. The tests shows that some subject in the brain is deviant from "normal ppl". Homosexuals is the same as "normal ppl".

I will try to get some of the reports translated into English as soon as possible, and then I will get back to you.

Regarding this, if at two years the only clue children have of boys and girls, beside the physical, is that they get different toys, if a boy or a girl doesn?t like his or her toys ?wouldn't he or she jump to the toys he or she wats, by calling himself a girl or a boy, so that he or she gets the right toys, the right clothes, the right style?

I just put the question. I know gendering may cause a lot of harm and suffering to children that many times goes into adulthood and turns into very painful and hard to deal with traumas depending on many factors.

I am not prejudging the case of your child, Aisha77, You must surely know your child better than anybody else. However, it would be unfair to read your message and not voice any concern that may come to our mind regarding the whole thing, because, finally it is better to act having thought too much about it than too little. I don't know either how much trust you have in the medicals that you are dealing with. Sometimes the medical profession may have difficulties itself and welcome some study ground. As I say; i don't mean to prejudge, but to bear every possibility in mind. Your child predicament is a very tough one, and yours therefore too, but unfortunately, in this world, any situation can always be worse and forewarned is forearmed. I hope and pray that your child's case is dealt with in the most matching way and that your child can develop in a most harmonious and loving way.

God is indeed your mighty and merciful Helper. May He look tenderly on both of you.

Salaam

Salaam

I know that there is children that express theme self in the other gender, and you might have a point regarding children wanting the other genders
toys. This is one thing.
I didn't just give my child boys toys when she was little, I bought whatever toys she liked to play with. Until she started to ACT like a girl, and telling me she is one. After that I didn't let her play with dolls anymore. This because I wanted her to be the boy I thought I gave birth to.
It took me several years before I let my child wear girls clothes and so.

Some children goes through phases were they try on the other gender, but still they end up normal. Some of the kids acting like this and end up homosexuals.

But the children who has acted like my child does, for their hole life, usually end up transsexuals. That's a fact, we just have to deal with.

I live in a country were both homosexuals and transsexuals is accepted, so it wont do my child any harm living as one, socially.

I prayed for a long time that my child would just wake up feeling comfortable in her own body, and I still do, but now I mostly pray for her to just feel good about herself, regardless in which gender she wants to live in to be happy.

And just for the notice, I didn't start to call her a girl, her and she, until after the investigation on the children's hospital, were they told me I had to meet her in her understanding about herself.

Wa salaam Aisha

I think most of you didn't read what i wrote about my girls background nor about the treatment that is coming.

NO children gets under the knife. They have to be at least 18 for that. Hormones are used at the age of 16, if the case seems clear. Hormone blockers are used (and they are reversible) when the children goes into puberty. This for preventing beard, dark voice and so on, this because it is really hard to get rid off later, if the child would like so as a grown up.

My daughter doesnt just play with girly toys. She has been telling me since she was 2 and a half years old, that she is a girl and not a boy. In every way there is! I did NOT listen at first! I told her she is a boy and she needs to dress like one, act like one and so on... I tried this very hard on her until she was 4. After that the childrens psychiatry told me to let the child go her own way without telling her neither this or that. Just let her be. I did so.

Now she is almost 9 years old, and I dress her in unisex clothes to give her the opportunity to "choose"(transsexualism is a sickness, which you cant choose, but I hope you understand) later in what gender she feels most comfortable in. Sometimes she gets to dress up as a girl, but in school its unisex or boys clothes... My child says she doesn't want to live at all if she cant live as a girl.

Last august we went to a big children's hospital and my daughter and I went through a long investigation. The doctors, a hole team, came to the conclusion that my child suffer from transsexualism. They also told me that its biological and not a psychological illness.

I would go to a hospital to get treatment for cancer. And I will go to doctors to treat my child for transsexualism.

But that doesn't mean I don't pray or believe in God. I do believe that when it all comes down to it, it s up to God. But I also believe that its God who has given some of us competence to treat sicknesses, and that its God who has given us the drugs for treatment. This because He is the creator of it all!

For me this life is just a big test. I got tested by being given a child with this disease, and I will do what ever it takes to deal with it!

Peace you all!

The problem is with you not the child, already preconceived, your mind made up.

Those doctors are MORONS deserve to be flogged in public and inject each of them with that drug.

HELLO!!! The child was 2 years old!!!

The child was behaving exactly like YOU encourage HIM to.

Therefore, you kept the attention on HIM -- boy boy boy, messing with HIS head.

Stupid MORONS! Determining the psyche of a 3 year old when they themselves are MENTAL!

Of course HE learned everything from you! Keeping the attention (boy boy boy), take HIM to moron doctors.

HE is playing you right back with mind games; you raise a child, spoil HIM with attention, now HE knows exactly what to do and which buttons to push and exactly what to say to get your attention.

I would get HIM as far away from you and those MORON doctors as possible; send HIM to live with the grandmother, never mention gender, ignore the subject altogether, perhaps soccer, boxing, or martial arts (the kid is probably socially confined because you are too worried that he'll get tired, sick, or hurt) and by age 10 HE will be fine -- God willing.

Peace Samia,

They are clueless about "self image" and effects of DNA molecules; take a disturbed "image"; transsexual, deviate into bestiality, tree lover, whatever, and they look at their DNA find some pattern and conjecture that must be the image!

Appologies for the harsh post -- this story and the stupid doctors really pissed me off.

Peace

Peace (Im not sure I mean it)

To say the things you just did without ANY referenses makes you look stupid. You are telling me I should not be around my child???
Whats your competence on this issue?

Children like mine kills themeself without treatment, and it IS biological!!!

So you think all the doctors are morons?
I will pray to God that you never get sick...
And even more... That God don't give you a child, with special needs...

Aisha

Aisha,

If at all there is a disease in a human, it is in the heart. This is Quran.

What you gave birth to is definitely a boy, it is his acquired or derived mentality he has been willingly acting as a girl. It is the heart that houses the mind. Teach him Quran, he will be boy again psychologically and mind wise too. At present, he is not at all a girl either from physiological, or biological or philosophical point of view. Do not go to doctors; and follow not them any more; they know nothing but drugging and knifing.

Peace.

.

If you get cancer, God forbid, you wouldn't go to a doctor? You would just sit at home reading Quran?
Transsexualism is biological, and that's a fact today 2009.
There is this test, but it is only to be made on dead ppl, and i wouldn't go that far just to prof you wrong

I think your advice is wrong, and that you should seek knowledge in the subject before saying things like this.

Not even in the strict sect of salaafi does one say "don't go to the doctor, if you are ill".

My girl reads the Qur'an, and is learning about Islam, alhamdulillah. She is praying every night, that when she wakes up, she will have a girls body.

Do you have anything from the Qur'an, that states your advice?

wa salam,
Aisha

peace Aisha,

Thanks for clarifying.

I find it interesting at such a young age she acted female, even with toys. For example, I would have thought a child given any toys would play with them.

In any case, I think if I were in your situation I would consult medical advice / specialists, child/father and go with what seems best for your child. The thing is, a significant part of our acts are based on intention, if your intention is just/honest/sincere/righteous/etc then I would find it difficult to think God would assign blame if you got it wrong. I can think of a few verses that could be relevant, but I can only recall one at the moment, 2225.

As a side note, I study nutrition sometimes and I am aware of the negative effects of soya on male development, if you wish to research it. Not saying it is related, but you may find it useful/interesting.

All the best.

Peace.
Thank you for reading my story.
Offcours I will follow the medical advice, my daughters life depends on it.
Soya? Thats sounds interesting, but we dont use it! I will look into it anyway, so thanks
wa salam

Perhaps it does.

The answer for such a person is as Andrea Dworkin and her relationship. Why? Because the inside is as it is.

Then again, why do you refer to your son as a girl? And why did you scream at the grandmother?

Personally I'd send the child to martial arts classes (no I wouldn't suggest Ranma 1/2 as an inspiring series). And find natural herbal treatment for soy poisoning.
http//www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53327

Salam

Just one question... why did you search the Qur'an for homosexuality? Its not relevant in this case...
transsexualism is not a sexual orientation.
I call my daughter a girl becuz she is one! And I will scream and go angry with anyone hitting my children! even call the police if necessary
Children need protection.

Salam Aisha,
The Quran does not mention anything about this situation. Do you think it should?

Salam.
I am a bit surprised over your question. Why shouldnt the Qur'an mention these humans?
I believe that God sent me this child because He knows I am capabel of dealing with it

I didnt come here for medical advice, i will give it to my baby, anything she need. I came to see if God had mentioned something on this subject, anything relevant at all, on this forum, because I know there is a lot of ppl with big knowledge about the Qur'an in here. There is hadiths on the subject but i reject theme, so I was just wondering if there was something in the Great Book of Allah.

Wa salam,
Aisha

Salam

She was born a boy, and I made her wear boys clothes, play with boys toys and so on, like any normal boy... But she refused... When she was little, like a year or two, she always wore a shirt on her head, and said that it was her long hair.
When we were to go outside, I made her take it off, and she got really upset. Not like if I would tell her to leave her toy at home, but much worse...
When she was 2,5 years old we went to see her grandmother. The grandmother told my baby to take off the shirt from her head since she is a BOY. My baby replied, "I'm a girl". The GM then repeated "No, you're a boy, never say you are a girl again" and then she slapped my baby... Not hard, but i don't believe in hitting children so I screamed at her and then left...
Anyway... That was the first time she said it out loud, that she is a girl.

After that I got scared, and me and my baby's father, tried even harder to make her a boy.

When she was 3 I seeked help with the children's psychologists, and they told me to let the child choose. That it was possible she was transsexual. I hated their answers.
But after 2 more, really difficult years, I started to realize. I read about it and every piece fell into place.
You asked me how she manifests these feminine side, and I will tell you... She is more feminine than any girl you know
The way she speaks, moves, dances, walks... In everything!

She says she doesn't want to live if she cant live as a girl. And it breaks my heart.

When a child has come on this strong, and for this long (her hole life), like my baby has, its most likely she will stay this way. The hormone blockers used at first is reversible. If you stop taking theme you will go into normal puberty. The nonreversible drugs is not given until her doctor, and she, is really sure, and the sex change operation isnt done until the age of 18.

What happens if you don't stop male puberty on a transsexual girl, like my baby, is that she will get depressed and might harm herself badly. She will get a dark voice that no operation in the world can make feminine again... She will grow beard, which is really hard to get rid off later... And so on...

Some male hormones are already in her system, and she still doesn't want to live as a boy.

Until for not long ago we thought transsexualism was just like a psychiatric illness, but now we know its biological. Something happens when the child is growing in the whom, in week8-14.
There is actually a test that can be made to be sure, but there is a big problem... You need to be dead firstS
They can measure a subject in the brain.

One child on every 10000'th birth is born like this. Its 3 times as usual to be like my baby, a male to female transsexual, as it is to be a female to male transsexual.

I hope I got things a little bit more clear for you, if not ask again.

Wa salam, Aisha

When ever I hear salafi, I just think dajjali.

I have to agree.

I have lived according to the salaafs believes for some time now. And it ended with me almost leaving God completely. But then I remembered this forum... And all the insights I got from here many years ago. So I came back!
This God alone-thing is what got me less confused and more sure, its logical. I now trust myself and don't consider me as religious but more just a believer in God.

Salam,
Aisha

Salaam Sister
Drfazal is not wrong.This is what you wrote in your first post.
This post indicates that as you child is
-genotypically girl ie XX
-Phenotypically boy i.e outward look (external genitalia)
Such conditions are known as "true/false hermophrodites

But probably you want to say that your child is
-genotypically and pheotypically as boy
-Psychologically a girl
Did I get your point of view correctly ?
Regards

Salam

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsexualism

The word "transsexualism" has nothing to do with intersexual conditions as hermophrodites.

For me who lives besides it every day, its all clear, but I guess for you who doesn't, its a bit more complex.. I need to be a bit clearer perhaps.

Anyway, I just wanted the Quranic view on the issue, transsexualism.

My baby is almost nine now and has said herself, that she is a girl since she was 2,5 years old. We have been at a children's hospital and a big team of specialists in this matter, has examined her and given her the diagnose "gender identity disorder in childhood" which will change into "transsexualism", in about a year. After that we will start treating her with drugs who will stop male puberty. When she is 16 she will get the female hormones and start development as a women.

I know there is some stuff said in the traditional sunnah, hadiths, about my topic, but even though you might find some good things in there, I don't believe it's relevant in religious perspectives. The Qur'an is.

One verse is 2431,

2431 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep
covered their private parts, and that they should not reveal their beauty
except what is apparent, and let them put forth their shawls over their
cleavage. And let them not reveal their beauty except to their husbands,
or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons
of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the
sons of their sisters, or their women, or those committed to them by oath
or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet
understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with
their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their
beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.

"the male servants who are without need" who are those?

In hadith its called "mukhannath" and is explained in two kinds.. the first one is a transsexual person, who can't help him/herself, and the second one is those who put on the other genders clothes and acts to commit sins.

I don't know enough to interpret the Qur'an, so I need your help!

wa salam,
Aisha

Aisha,

I do not understand 'girl into boy's body'; you mean hermaphrodite? or Transsexual? Anyway, to a great extent possible controlling or avoiding sexual tendencies where it is a crime in general is Quran. To go under knife, does not change one's sexual attitude at all. Medical or surgical field does not know anything about this condition, except arrogantly involving itself with mechanical manipulation and intervention. They will supplicate the body with chemically prepared male/female hormones which in turn will interfere with the rest of the intricately interwoven semblance of balance of naturally secreted hormones. This might result in unpleasant situations and uncontrollable medical complications eventually. So keep up patience and let us turn to God for Guidance; there is the guidance near, for those who believe and seek belief and patience.

.

Peace

As I wrote I am talking about transsexualism, not hemafrodhite.

First, transsexualism has NOTHING to do with sexual orientation... Its about our gender. The name is missleading to many, I know, but now we have made this clear.

Second, ppl having transsexualism, can't stand living that way. They would do ANYTHING to get to live in the other gender. As many as 50% of young transsexual kids, under 18, tries to commit suicide. Some succeed...

I just wanted to know if any one knows if there is something in the Qur'an about this issue.

I have read some on a page who claims that there is some verses on this subject...

Aisha

Im wondering what the Quranic perspective on transsexualism is. Is it allowed to do a sex change?

I am a muslim and a mother to a transsexual child, a girl born into a boys body.

May Allah reward you all for spreading your knowledge.

Salaam