nice? top? You do know that the originator of this forum is not from North America or Europe right?

That's not the issue here.

dumped? I like to think of it as Asia and Middle East together as brother and sisters and Europe and America as separatists. But to each his own, I guess.

??? Ok - whatever - but that's a poor excuse to have 90% of the Muslim world and 60% of the entire human race in one section.

There's like less than 5 members from Africa here, and that's including me. You still think there should be more sections on this forum with as many sections as it already has?

Perhaps if there was an Africa section there'd be more Africans around!

I did a quick search on Wikipedia which basically says the same as the above, and got this, hope it helps

"Dalai" means "Ocean" in Mongolian, and is a translation of the Tibetan name "Gyatso", while "Lama" (bla ma) is the Tibetan equivalent of the Sanskrit word "guru", and is commonly translated to mean "spiritual teacher".

Allah is my witness I heard this discussion on Jewish Radio in London back in the 1990's and they clearly said this information not to be spread further .

As God being your witness they honestly said that?

If they didn't want the information to be spread further then why did they broadcast it on the radio?

Well hello there everyone.

Well hello there.

My name is Starjade I am the Deuteronomy Doomsday prophet Starjade.

Nice to meet you Starjade, Deuteronomy Prophet eh? Er, we'll discuss that a little later, right now we'll deal with what you came on the forum for.

As he would not come here to invite you to help those Muslims on that web site I have come here to issue the Sura 482 challenge and invite you to take part in those conversations if you dare.

Ok then, I pluck up the courage to converse about this issue with you.

Be wary now for I am not a novice and to this day no Muslim has been able to defend the Koran or the claims of Muhammad from my God given Revelations

Don't worry, I have been sufficiently warned by you, I shall be weary. &

So let's start shall we? We need to clear some things up first

http//conspiracycentral.info/index.php?showtopic=14194&view=getnewpost

Your link's broke.

There is a law in the religion of Islam that says if you know something that is not true then you must be unafraid, stand up, and state it.

Please source this law.

I am invoking this Islamic law to open up serious religious discussions and Revelations with Muslims.

If you are invoking Islamic law, then if someone proves you wrong does that mean you will abide by it's judgements?

The facts are that if just one error exists in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran does not come from God.

Well according to what you've just said, the facts don't state that.

You said

Sura 482 of the Koran says; Do they not consider the Koran with care for if it had come from any other than Allah then surely they would have found much discrepancy therein.

Please take the time to read what you're posting in order that you may stop contradicting yourself, the verse says that if it isn't from God then surely they would find much discrepancy therein, you will need to elaborate on your claim of

The facts are that if just one error exists in the Koran then that is proof that the Koran does not come from God.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I disagree with you, you just need to backup your claims, that's all.

Of course it is known by history and many religious scholars that the god that Muhammad gave his worship to was in fact Hubal al'ilah, a pagan moon god worshipped throughout the middle east and Hubal al?ilah goes by many names one of them being that of Sin. The origin of to worship in Sin.

Please back this up with facts.

However, the reference in the Sura 482 of the Koran when it mentions Allah was obviously meant to mean the living God of Abraham and of Moses. The reason why that must be so is because the name Allah means the Supreme God and it is well known that there is only one true Living God and that is the Living God of Abraham and of Moses.

The pretence of Islam in today?s world is that Muslims are now giving worship to that living God of Moses. When in fact they hide the truth and give their worship to Hubal al?ilah the false pagan moon god. Worshipping in Sin.

These two paragraphs contradict your previous claim.

In reply to the Muslim who challenged me with the Sura 482. I wrote out 21 errors that exist in the Koran that to this day stand undisputed. A link to those 21 errors in the Koran is linked below.

Well Starjade, quite conveniently (or unconveniently depending on how you look at it) your second link does not work

http//www.geocities.com/end_of_times/surahfoureighthytwo.ht

Oh but wait, it does! You seemed to have put a rather bizarre space between ht and ml! I wonder why that is? How bizarre! confused

When those Muslims goaded me to challenge Islam with my Revelations, I accepted that challenge however, I challenged the whole of Islam and not just a few and the Islamic law I have invoked states you will have to reject the Koran and the claims of Muhammad. If you do not then what kind of Muslim does that make you.? I say it would make you a Kuffar shirking idolizer of a false prophet who was presumptuous to think he could speak in Gods name. That then makes you all guilty of blasphemy and that something detestable in the eyes of the Living God.

Starjade may I humbly offer some advice? Instead of insulting people, why don't you please elaborate, what is the true religion and who are it's true followers?

You're throwing some BIG accusations around Starjade. Some BIG accusations.

Be very wary now for many religious scholars have come before you trying to dispute the Revelations I have given and the many errors that exist in the Koran and the word of Muhammad in a futile attempt to defend Islam. Every one of them has bitten the Dust. I am not a Novice and I suggest you go tell your imams and Islamic scholars what I have said here and dare them to come online to face me.

As I said, I shall be wary, but please, where are the records and proof of these so many religious scholars who have been proven wrong by you? Please provide us with links to your arguments for the sake of your own reputation.

Be aware that when I speak of the Living God. I am speaking of the Living White Sphere that lives beyond the Veil of the Abyss in deep space, and there is only one living God.

Ok, we'll converse this whole Qur'an discrepancy thing, then after that I am very interested to hear more about the Living White Sphere that lives beyond the Veil of the Abyss in deep space and all your other beliefs.

are you afraid of Starjade's Sura 482 Challenge.

I personally am not afraid, to me this is not a ego contest, I will welcome any enlightnement I can gain from conversing, debating and rationalising with others on this forum. Unfortunately from the way you're posting it looks like this is one big ego contest.

So no Starjade - I am not afraid.

I advise that you go seek the advice off an Islamic scholar or your Imam before you dare to take me on.

Unfortunately I do not have access to an Islamic scholar or my Imam in time for me to 'dare to take you on' you're confusing me now as the original invitation was to converse, so I take it this is an ego contest?

However, do warn them that I am religiously superior to all of them combined and I will certainly eat them, the Koran, and the silly claims of Muhammad for breakfast.

Ok - will do. &

I'm going to read your working links with interest, in the meantime, could you please respond to my post.

Salam,

That message was only supposed to go out once. However, due to technical problems we were having with the list, more than one person tried sending. Unfortunately, the system was not down as we thought and the message ended-up being sent more than once.

I appologize to everyone.

Don't worry, I don't think anyone was annoyed, I was just happy I had 5 messages in my inbox! '(

Did you get that message from Layth 5 times by the way? That message came to me 5 times.

You find it easy to believe Moses was able to split water elementally by his own hands and rule out that God intervened?

Philosopher's Stone? You've been reading/watching too much Harry Potter

No probs, just making sure no-one inadvertantly sends their bank details to 'Princess Keita'

Salam

Tarikh al Kabir is not part of the Sahih al Bukhari, it is basically an appendix of various sayings with a rating on them by Imam Bukhari.

Sorry, Al-Dhahabi wrong reference, however it is in Al-Bukhari - I'll get the other one, they ain't hard to find, I've read more of the 'ahlul Bayt' variety than the 'sunnah' variety.

What makes you think this is the case?

The numerous hadith (that differ) on this issue refer to the same event at the same time and place.

Please bear with me.

Right, this is the first step I want us to all logically agree on, that Hadith, is not 100% authentic and it can be proven not to be

Sahih Al-Bukhari, Number 1623
...I leave behind me two things, the Qur'an and my example, the Sunnah and if you follow these you will never go astray.

Sahih Al-Bukhari, At-Ta'rikh Al-Kabir, iii, 96
...Verily, I have left two precious things (thaqalayn) among you, one of which is greater than the other the Book of God and my `Itrah, my Ahl al?Bayt.

These are two hadith, 'Sahih' (Authentic) of a saying of the prophet which were supposedly uttered at the same place at the same time, as you can see, they are different, which shows undoubtedly that even the 'most authentic' hadith is certainly not authentic.

Can we first agree on this same thing?

Anyways, Yusha just in case you find my reply hard to find (understandably ) here's what I said one more time

At first the sayings were obviously memorized by his companions, word for word. Than a few generations later it became in impending necessity to record these sayings on paper. So a group of highly righteous and pious people began the task of compiling the most authentic ahadeeth possible. They were the likes of Imam Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmizi, Nasai, and Ibn Maja to name a few. They interviewed people who had learned the hadith, and questioned about where they got their source, so they made a chain and ensured that the chain of narrators go back to the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) and his illustrious companions. So in a nutshell this is how they were recorded in text/book form.

How accurate are these narrations?

Thank you Ayman, however if I may ask people, I could have responded to Yusha's comments in kind, but I want to avoid the kind of arguments that have spiralled in the past - although people may not see this right now, my simple question and simple answer session will have a point.

I just want Yusha to answer just one or two more questions uninterrupted without having to answer further refutations to some of the claims he's made from others. This does have a point, so please Yusha as much as it may be hard for you not to respond to what Ayman said, could you simply respond to my next couple of questions and you can refute as much as whatever anyone else says here promise! (My response is a few posts up)

Salam all

Ayman has a very good point.

Anyways, Yusha just in case you find my reply hard to find (understandably ) here's what I said one more time

At first the sayings were obviously memorized by his companions, word for word. Than a few generations later it became in impending necessity to record these sayings on paper. So a group of highly righteous and pious people began the task of compiling the most authentic ahadeeth possible. They were the likes of Imam Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmizi, Nasai, and Ibn Maja to name a few. They interviewed people who had learned the hadith, and questioned about where they got their source, so they made a chain and ensured that the chain of narrators go back to the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) and his illustrious companions. So in a nutshell this is how they were recorded in text/book form.

How accurate are these narrations?

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Stop destroying this thread! Go and argue somewhere else, there are many other threads where that's happening!!!

Leoxyz, you refused to take part in this thread so please be consistent, let's go away from discussing Rashad Khalifa and now back to hadith, and my conversation with Yusha, thank you Yusha.

At first the sayings were obviously memorized by his companions, word for word. Than a few generations later it became in impending necessity to record these sayings on paper. So a group of highly righteous and pious people began the task of compiling the most authentic ahadeeth possible. They were the likes of Imam Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmizi, Nasai, and Ibn Maja to name a few. They interviewed people who had learned the hadith, and questioned about where they got their source, so they made a chain and ensured that the chain of narrators go back to the Holy Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam) and his illustrious companions. So in a nutshell this is how they were recorded in text/book form.

How accurate are these narrations?

Please let Yusha reply and go argue somewhere else people.

Thankyou for that Yusha, you have said some interesting things regarding hadith and what is classified as being wahi. I'm interested in this core concept of hadith you mentioned

In Islamic terminology basically it means the recorded sayings of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa salaam).

How have these sayings been recorded?

Ok then Yusha, since Leoxyz will not I thank you very much for your participation.

I think everyone on this forum needs to be clear with definitions before we continue further. So, in as many or little words you wish, can you please tell me what Hadith is?

Salam brother and again thank you for your participation.

Will you not answer my questions Leoxyz?

Ok, this thread is digressing!

Let's get this started, I am not trying to get you to believe any sort of dogma or interpretation, I will only be asking these questions in the hopw that both me and you and everyone who reads this thread may benefit.

Although this is a public forum may I ask please that only Leoxyz posts so that everyone can see things easily.

Salam Leoxyz, can you please tell me, in as long or short a post you like what Hadith is.

Sorry to say none of my questions have ever been answered.And if at all some one tried to answer that was without any proper reference.
None of them were able to translate even a few aya ,not to speak of so many other questions.

Ok then, let's forget about them, I'm asking you now, if you expect answers from them may I please get some answers from you?

Salam

Ha lol - I posted a link on Free Islam a short while back of an article on Christianity.com that praises what this moron is saying.

How the Thalimun are hypocrites, yes Muslims are evil, they hate freedom - Ban their Religious text!!!

Throughout the Quran and the Torah, there are only male prophets.

That's not actually true, there are prophetesses in the Torah.