Ahmad, Again, speak what you know NOT what you think....What is your problem?

He Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between, in six PERIODS, and is firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). Allah Most Gracious. ask you, then, about Him of any acquainted (with such things).

Allathee khalaqa alssamawati waalarda wama baynahuma fee sittati ayyamin thumma istawa AAala alAAarshi alrrahmanu faisal bihi khabeeran

Ayymin, PLURAL PERIOD(S) OF ERAS, AGE?S, TIME Hans Wehr Arabic English Dictionary 4th Edition page 1300 Tanwin-Kesra makes it indefinite(nakeeratun) length of each period can be indefinite (any number of years, eras, ages or time)

These are the SIX PERIODS as confirmed by Geologic and Cosmological Science....

Four Geologic Periods = Cenozoic, Mesozoic, Paleozoic, Precambrian

Cenozoic This era began 66 million years ago and includes the geological present.
Mesozoic This era began 251 million years ago and lasted about 186 million years.
Paleozoic This era began 542 million years ago and lasted about 291 million years.

Precambrian The Precambrian's lower limit is not defined, but ended about 542 million years ago. The Precambrian encompasses about 90% of Earth's history.

Two Cosmology Periods = Big Bang, Matter, Galaxy and Star formation
The Two Cosmology Periods are 10,000 and 300,000 years, respectively.

Ahmad, 6 days?

Salaam Muslimtruthrevealed

So in your opinion do you think its better to translate it as "PERIODS" or "AEONS"?

Peace Anwar,

Yes, I already know that Saudi Arabia was based on the Sa'ud family; that's common knowledge. However, "saud", based on the original Kemetic languages, in which the Arabic language was adapted, meant "black". It was later adapted as "sud", but I'm not talking about present descriptions; I'm talking about the original languages...

This is completely ridiculous, and this is not what Brother El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (a.k.a. "Malcolm X&quot was talking about. He was speaking directly about the social class of black people in America. Regardless of the political aspect of the country, black people have a lower social class (generally) than white people. We're regarded as, in the words of the Honorable Elijah Muhammad, "FIFTH CLASS CITIZENS". America as a country is regarded as a "free country", based on the principles of democracy and diplomacy; but we don't see that anywhere in the black communities of Detroit, Chicago, New York, Mississippi, Louisiana, Georgia, or anywhere else. America has claimed to be a country based on educational and economical equality, but anyone who lives in America, especially a person of Nubian ancestry, knows this is far from the truth. America praises Abraham Lincoln for "freeing the slaves"; but in reality, slavery still exists in America, and it never ended, it just took on a new form... Yes, Minister Malcolm did believe in black nationalism; but there's nothing particularly wrong with certain forms of black nationalism, as long as they aren't used to incite hatred and violence. Brother Khalid Muhammad was a good example of a powerful spokesman for black nationalism. Yes, some of his words were harsh, and some of his ideologies may have been considered "extreme", but he relayed a message, and he made people listen to him. Because of my being victimized by America's unequal and unjust legal and moral system, I refuse to call myself an "African-American". This is an insult to my forefathers. I was born and raised in America, but that doesn't make me an "American".

Also, "Africa" is a named developed by the Greeks, who called the country "africa terra", which is translated to mean "land of dust". It is also possibly an adaptation of "aphrike", meaning "without cold"... Either way, this wasn't the name used by the actual Africans. The earliest civilizations of black people during that time consisted of the Nubians, the Kemites, and the Kushites; and since most modern history of black civilization traces "Nubia" to be the oldest and largest of the three, I prefer the term "Nubian" over being called "African" any day...

I'm seriously surprised that you'd take the words of Brother El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz out of context and say he is only referring to his not being "American" in the political and nationalist generalization. That's completely false, and you've shown yourself, indirectly, to be willing to trample your own Nubian people so that you can try to maintain their false standard of being "politically correct"... Next time, if you want to reference Malcolm X, instead of making assumptions as to what you think he was talking about, you should read or listen to his words in context. If you listened to his "The Ballot or The Bullet" speech, you'd know that he was talking about being non-American in the traditional sense of claiming allegiance to another country and government (i.e. Nubia/Africa). If you recall, this is the same action taken by Noble Drew Ali and his followers with the Moorish Science Temple when they declared their concept of black nationalism and pronounced allegiance to the government of Morocco. This was also done by Honorable Elijah Muhammad and a group of his followers when they declared their "independence" from the American government and their allegiance to the African continent and it's people and descendants. This wasn't some kind of political stunt. Malcolm X was a firm supporter of desegragation and black migration back to Africa, and so were the other leaders and members of these nationalist organization. They actually believed and stood behind their concepts and actions. To view it as anything other than that is a biased view of their struggle...

Peace,

Ahmad

As Salaamu Alaykum Ahmad Bilal

I am so glad that you got to this lost and mentally dead negro (Anwar/Progod) before I did.

"I'm seriously surprised that you'd take the words of Brother El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz out of context and say he is only referring to his not being "American" in the political and nationalist generalization. That's completely false, and you've shown yourself, indirectly, to be willing to trample your own Nubian people so that you can try to maintain their false standard of being "politically correct"... Next time, if you want to reference Malcolm X, instead of making assumptions as to what you think he was talking about, you should read or listen to his words in context."

And this is why I call him an UNCLE TOM and every time he opens up his mouth he proves my statement 10 manifolds. Because he is an UNCLE TOM and MENTALLY DEAD, he comes from branch knowledge rather than root knowledge so he is willing to accept these terms "Afro American/African American" that the white slave master have given our people which you have skillfully demonstrated. How can we be free and independent as a Nation when we are still accepting the terms and labels that the white man has given us for the name of our race! The white man is not our origin, he is not in a position to label us when we predate him; as the Qur'aan teaches us, as revealed by Allah we (Nubians ) are the original people to walk this earth

ALLAH CREATED THE ORIGINAL HUMAN RACE BLACK
http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/hamaa/Ch15v26.jpg

ALLAH CREATED THE FIRST HUMAN BLACK
http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/hamaa/Ch15v28hamaablack.jpg

And since we existed before him we had names for our own race and our own country before this johnny-come-lately slave master came there and conquered and renamed not only our selves but our country and this negro (Anwar) accept these (Afro-American/African American/American) for the name of his race and this negro went to the point of distorting the message of Malcolm X, what an UNCLE TOM he is! Anwar is nothing but a black imp for the white man.

Ahmad, I 100% agree and I was so glad that you pointed this out and that is because you are coming from root knowledge unlike Anwar who is coming from branch knowledge

"The earliest civilizations of black people during that time consisted of the Nubians, the Kemites, and the Kushites; and since most modern history of black civilization traces "Nubia" to be the oldest and largest of the three, I prefer the term "Nubian" over being called "African" any day...

Below is an article from New York Times

http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/hamaa/NewYorkTimesNubia.jpg

And below is a dynamic video breaking down what you have presented about Nubia/Nubians

Egypt During The Golden Age
http//kushite.webs.com/egyptgoldenage.htm

Salaam FAR

You have requested references then go to this website

Egypt and Islaam
http//kushite.webs.com/egyptandislaam.htm

Salaam Al Khidr,

Thanks for pointing this out, brother. This is absolutely correct. Many people base their visual perceptions of black/Nubian people on the concept of having "dark skin". In reality, though, this is not the case. Plenty of black people have light skin complexions, and some of them are nearly as light as Europeans... Here's a big factor of racial intermixing

If a black man reproduces with a white woman, their child will be considered BLACK. And if this child grows up and reproduces with another white person, their child will be considered BLACK. And even then, if their child grows up to reproduce with a white person, they will still produce a BLACK CHILD. No matter how many times this is repeated, because of the weaker (recessive) genes present in the blood of white people, once a Nubian is mixed within their blood pattern, they can never produce another purely white, European child. Their children, children's children, and children's children's children will still be black, and they will still have dominant Nubian features, regardless of how light their skin complexion might be. White people know this too, they just refuse to accept it... White people generally like to play upon the significance of verbal opposites (i.e. white=pure, black=dirty; white=godly, black=demonic, etc.), and this is why their languages are the way they are today. However, if you base this same rule on the true definition of black (i.e. "originality", "strong", "dominant&quot, what exactly is this saying about white people?

Again, this is very true. It may be painful for some to accept, but the Honorable Elijah Muhammad made the most appropriate statement regarding this, when he said, "The truth only hurts the guilty..."

Alhamdulillah, this is a profound statement, and it couldn't be put more simply and accurately. The corruption of this concept (not trying to save the black race) is illustrated by Brother Anwar's usage of the term "Afro-American". What does this mean? I'm not an African-American, or "Afro-American". The late Minister El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz (Malcolm X) spoke directly on this very profoundly in his "The Ballot or The Bullet" speech when he said

I'm not a politician, not even a student of politics; in fact, I'm not a student of much of anything. I'm not a Democrat, I'm not a Republican, and I don't even consider myself an American. If you and I were Americans, there'd be no problem.... Well, I am one who doesn't believe in deluding myself. I'm not going to sit at your table and watch you eat, with nothing on my plate, and call myself a diner. Sitting at the table doesn't make you a diner, unless you eat some of what's on that plate. Being here in America doesn't make you an American. Being born here in America doesn't make you an American. Why, if birth made you American, you wouldn't need any legislation, you wouldn't need any amendments to the Constitution, you wouldn't be faced with civil-rights filibustering in Washington, D.C., right now.... No, I'm not an American. I'm one of the 22 million black people who are the victims of Americanism. One of the 22 million black people who are the victims of democracy, nothing but disguised hypocrisy. So, I'm not standing here speaking to you as an American, or a patriot, or a flag-saluter, or a flag- waver-no, not I. I'm speaking as a victim of this American system. And I see America through the eyes of the victim. I don't see any American dream; I see an American nightmare....

In my opinion, this was, BY FAR, one of the greatest, most profound, truthful speeches ever delivered on the basis of race. Black/Nubian ancestry isn't equal in America. In fact, it's viewed as a curse. There's no truth, justice, equality, or peace between black people and white people in America. Nubians in America aren't living the same "American Dream" that is exhibited all over white, high-class society. In other words, we're not "eating off the plate". So, what makes us "Americans"? Good points, Al Khidr, regarding the message of unity, not just among Muslims but among black people as a whole. If we can successfully unify as a race, then we can eventually unify as a nation. But until there's black unity, there can't really be any unity among black people and white people...

Peace,

Ahmad

ALHAMDULILLAH BROTHER

Salaam Al Khidr,

Both translations are wrong. The Qur'an says in this verse than Allah created these things in six "ayyaam"/days... Some people can interpret it to refer to periods or aeons, stages, or whatever; but it literally says "six days".

Peace,

Ahmad

Salaam Ahmad

Thanks for your input but when you say "days" do you mean days in the literal sense like how we perceive days on earth or are you saying the "days" here refer to long periods of time, stages, etc.?

Peace,

I understand your point here. This was Malcom X's point. I really don't know what to say. I agree with this tendency of Caucasian civilization to devalue and undermine black civilization. And I do agree that there are a number of issues that black people (mainly just American Blacks, North, Central and South American) need to work out solo, becuz of the legacy we've inherited from Eurocentric domination. Unfortunately, many Caucasian people haven't gotten past their own Eurocentricity (many find it to be normal and even academic). And extreme Afro-centricity is not a real answer either. Only truth is. Unfortunately, many Eurocentrists will brand the truths of the Negroid influence in the world as Afrocentricity when it is just truth. But I have seen abuse on both sides. Afro-centrists refuse to take into account or recognize the validity of mixture and how Caucasians have been mixing with Negroids for a long time around the globe (as well as Mongoloids with Negroids) in such a way that we can learn to see the truth of our conflicts as a matter of demonic cultural tendencies and not demonic races. However I know that there will be no real progress unless there is some real alternative being presented in the form of successful civlizations that offer truth and a way of thinking that transcends Eurocentrism, Afrocentricism, the greedy rat race, anti-nature-ism, anti-Godism, poverty and dependence. Civilizations that embrace the truths (positive and negative) of our Negroid, Caucasoid and Mongoloid ancestors, and most of all how significant areas of the world have populations that have originated in large part from the mixture of 2 or all three of these elements.

When I say civilizations, I mean an organizations that could be tight connections of small communities spread about, or tight connections of large communities over large areas. But the key to understanding this is that civilzation = organization and Quranic civilization = organization with a Quranic agenda, an agenda of telling all truths and exposing all lies, and an agenda of self-sustenence and indepedence from un-Quranic and anti-Quranic elements in the world. An agenda which we are horribly failing at, mainly becuz of our disunity, lack of comprehension and extreme individuality.

But we should be careful not to mix the appropriateness of cultural trends for the good of humanity with racial associations. In the end the masses (all masses, Caucasiod, Negroid, Mongoloid or mixtures of these three) usually have their cultures shaped by brainwashers, false-leaders, false-prophets, soothesayers and hate-mongerers. And Mankind himself is often motived by very base ambitions unless he has godly aspirations.

And as it stands, ideas with money and social influence behind them make the world go around. The golden rule whoever has the gold, makes the rules. I think we can intelligenty imagine the fear, the envy and the harsh social world that Caucasians developed coming from Glacier stricken areas and threatened by the military and other technologies within the Negroid civilzations south of them during ancient times. Envy and fear breed hatred, and it is very likely that as Caucasian socieities began to filter into Negroid civilizations and benefit and mix from the contact that those advances along with the natural faltering of Negroid civilizations (all civilzations rise and fall) that the invasions by the cultural stong-holds of the "barbarians" of the day led to the anti-negroid sentiment we find in India, the middle east, North Africa, Southern Europe and even among the Mongoloid-Negroid mixed populations of Indonesia. These sentiments died down in many places, in other places these sentiments flared up from time to time and in some places the awkward relationships have remained although in many cases lying dormant. And all of you know what I see as happening with the advent of European colonialism into most of these countries (Latin America is relatively new to this scene as well as the color-mentality of Afro-Americans both of which share the same symptoms as the older scenarios in Southern Europe, North Africa, the Middle East, India and Indonesia).

I say all that to say that although these are the truths of this issue, someone's race does not make them 100% subject to the cultural ideas they grew up in. ALTHOUGH most people who grow up in certain cultural contexts do not surpass the cultural ideas they grew up with (positive or negative). That may seem contradictory but the first has to do with genetic taint (which does not exist) and the second with mental taint (which does exist). So I agree with Malcom's suggestion and yours that Afro-Americans need to establish their own so they can work their own problems out. HOWEVER, this does not take into account the psychology of Afro-Americans who have developed a mindset that needs White people in the picture. And our culture has been deeply shaped by the (mostly demeaning) presence of Caucasiods. Unfortunately anything that the Caucasiod mainstream (mostly in the American context) offers Afro-Americans, they will go along with despite the truth, and that is a human mental disorder (following the mainstream or people who you think are better) as well as an Afro-american mental disorder.

To illustrate this sickness, I know an Afro-American girl who told me once while we were talking that she wanted to travel the world and get outside of the U.S. That's understandable, right? Well, when I mentioned going to Africa (as this is a very important thing to do for the psyche of a black person in the Americas, especially going to West Africa) she absolutely objected to going to Africa (and I've seen this scenario many times over). The crazy part is she ended up telling me that she really wanted to go to Spain becuz the people there (white people of course) LOOOVE (her emphasis) black people. That made me upset, but she (along with many other Afro-Americans) don't get how much they have been affected by Eurocentrism/Caucaso-centrism. What made me more upset is that she didn't get the gravity of what she was saying.

And as we all know this Eurocentrism has affected even purely African countries through their ruling classes mostly, but also through the commericials and all the other whistles and bells of capitalism catered to Europeans and totally oblivious to all others. So even where we have all black nations they still have not worked out their problems. Look at Liberia and Sierra Leone (where Afro-Americans were expatriated), and look at the rest of the continent still caught up on the Eurocentric, white supremacist mindsets that Colonialsm convinced them about. So with these examples out there, think of what fully Westernized (for centuries) Afro-Americans would do if they got their own country, their own communities, their own schools. They would try to employ a system that really doesn't work for anyone but the people at the top, and these people at the top would employ it badly unfortunately becuz they would find themselves negotiating with bigger powers because all they care about is themselves. Which is where we find most African, Carribbean and Latin American countries to this day. The proof of what would happen is already out there.

Caucasiods are not as united as we might think. A trip to a few trailer parks or Eastern Europe would prove that. Those who would have proven to be a threat to the lies (financial and racial) have been targeted since the beginning through brainwashing and appeals to the baser elements of the human mindset; vanity. So unfortunately many caucasoids have been convinced to target their anger and dejection towards non-Caucasiods as the cause of their problems and the stepping stone (that they must step on) for their self-pride. Hence they become puppets, ignorant accomplices and contributors to the demonic games being played by those same brainwashers, false-leaders, false-prophets, soothesayers and hate-mongerers who make sure that they get some worldy benefit from the mischief and destruction that they wreak.

But personally I think we might want to give up the idea of trying to save Afro-Americans or even humanity from themselves, but rather focus on building our own Quranic communities that uphold the truth, good and bad, of all peoples, and establish a Quranic agenda for our good and hopefully for the good of all who wish for good. We are all going to come with baggage, which is why we must sit at the table first and make clear what our prirorities are and what is non-negotiable for us. And I for one, can FULLY understand how bringing to light the integral part of the Negroid influence in the world and the lies of Caucaso-centrism and the centrism of any people can be a non-negotiable. I can fully agree with that. But let's try to get to know the real reasons for all these things, nor take things too far. And let's deal with ALL the issues as they are. So we need to see these "racial" issues as the incorrectness of our cultures, not the incorrectness of our races.

Ahmad, I know you see where I'm coming from perfectly, so all of this wasn't directed towards you, but to everyone interested in the truth.

Godbless,
Anwar

?But personally I think we might want to give up the idea of trying to save Afro-Americans or even humanity from themselves, but rather focus on building our own Quranic communities that uphold the truth, good and bad, of all peoples, and establish a Quranic agenda for our good and hopefully for the good of all who wish for good.?

I have read your post and you have made some good points but like always you seem to inject concepts that are designed to keep us enslaved and disunited and fragmented. There is no way on earth that the people you are calling ?Afro-Americans? will accept this notion to give up the idea of trying to save their people. What you are promoting here is the same divide and conquer tactics that has always been used on Nubians (people of color) to keep them divided amongst themselves. But All Praise be to Allah for strong leadership such as Noble Drew Ali, Marcus Garvey, Elijah Muhammad, Malcolm X, Farrakhan, Khallid Muhammad, Ashra Kwesi, just to name a few and I say that because they all had the vision of not forgetting or abandoning or giving up on their race but rather that we need to unite and save our people from oppression and also link up and unify with all Nubians whether they are in Africa or throughout the world to counter global white supremacy.

Peace,

I think it would prove interesting to study the root Black in Arabic. Saada or seen, alif dawd means to predominate, to be master/chief of and alot of other positive things. And sawwada (second form) in addtion to 'to make black', means 'to make master or lord/master, predominant.' Sayyid is from this same root. It kind of gives a clue as to the original Arabs and why Aswad is connected to this root. And then you can see some of the derivations of the Aswad only (as in the verb Aswadda) and see how they became negative and particularly 'to be disgraced, to be dishonored' etc etc. This tells us what the role of black people was originally (they were the predominant and chief kind of people among the Arabs) among Arabic speakers (Classical Arabic of course) and what happened to them (they were conquered over a period of time by Caucasians, NOT FROM EUROPE but from Southern Russia and south of Modern day Russia) and after time disgraced and dishonored.

I want to add that white people don't just come from Europe. They are also in all of the lands of Eastern Russia, Southern Russia and the areas directly south of Russia. And Caucasians made their way into the Middle East and India from these areas. They made their way into Africa and the Americas from Europe. In Most areas they had been mixing with native blacks for a very long time leading to the not so white populations, but still relatively fair skinned, of Southern Europe, North Africa, the Middle East and Northern and Central India. Their blood even made it as far down as Ethiopia and in more recent times Southern Egypt and Northern Sudan (Because of the Ottomans and the influx of European slaves to Egypt and Sudan as well as already mixed individuals (like Arabs, Copts and Berbers) having children with more pure Blacks in those regions). And this is why they look like they have Caucasian (NOT necessarily EUROPEAN) admixture. Have you ever seen Haile Selassie? He looks like what a more pure Black person would look like if we mixed that Black person up and gave him some signficant Caucasian ancestry. If you find a black person who looks like that in the Americas or in Mauritania or North African it is becuz he has a good dose of Caucasian ancestry. So that mixing in the Middle East bled into Ethiopia, Eritrea and Djibouti.

And if you don't believe me I think a trip to Latin America would do you some good. I recommend the Dominican Republic, Northern Brazil, Western Colombia, Loiza or Carolina in Puerto Rico, Cuba, southern Mexico, panama and some other places. But in this way you all can see what black people who have significant European ancestry start to look like compared to other black people from those same populations who have less. really all you have to do is start paying attention to Caucasian-Negroid mixes even here in the States, taking into consideration if the Black person already has some European in him. And then it will start o become clear why Arabs, Indians, Southern Europeans, North African and many Latin Americans (mostly the stereotypical ones we see on TV) look like they do. (this even will account for why Southeast Asians look like they do, once you realize that the Papua New Guineans, Melanesians, and Negritos were black. And the Northern Mongoloids migrated into most of their territories and mixed in with them)

Then hopefully maybe we can loosen up on the purely genetic/racial tone of Negroid and Caucasiod being incompatible antipathies, and realize that what we need to address is a cultural phenomenon caused by historical clashes between Caucasoid cultures and Negroid civilizations/cultures in the ancient world, and where Caucasoids happened to come out the winners. Why exactly all this negativity towards the Negroid populations that the Caucasoids mixed into and came to generally dominate in the ancient world? I think it has to do with the psychologies that Caucasoid CULTURES developed in their places of origin AND through their conflicts with Negroid civilizatons. But its persistence to this day PRIMARILY has to do with the WORLD WIDE effects of the PSYCHOLOGY OF EUROPEAN COLONIALISM, which trumped (and enhanced) any prejudicial attitudes that the original caucasians who came to these lands ever brought.

Godbless,
Anwar

Anwar

Here is what you are misinformed about. When the white man came to Nubian countries around the world and raped the women, the offspring is still Nubian (Black) not White because of the dominant gene and their recessive gene. And it does not matter what the complexion is, even if the offspring has light skin or white skin, genetically they are Nubian (Black). Race is not necessarily classified by complexion. We have Black people in our race that can pass for white due to their complexion and fair features but they still are Nubian (Black). Race is classified by genetics not necessarily complexion of the skin. Also there is not one prototype feature that identifies an African (Nubian) man because we have all kinds of features, hair textures, complexions all in the Motherland.

Another point that you are misguiding people on is the fact that Europeans have dominated the world by conquering and enslaving during ancient times as well as today. It is not the Nubians who have some caucasion blood in them who are ruling the world, it is the Eurpeans/Cacausion who are ruling the world.

One thing the white man has learned about himself is after he traveled around the world and raped women of Black, Brown, Red, Yellow and saw that the offspring was a none European, he then realized that he had the weakest (recessive) gene on the planet.

Salaam Al Khidr,

You're absolutely right. This kind of racism was prevalent then, and it is still prevalent, even throughout the Islamic world. The only people who don't see this are those who have blinded themselves from reality. The original Arabs and Hebrews were Nubians, but throughout the world, they are presented as white people. And they're not even illustrated as "pale Arabs"; they're actually illustrated to be white Europeans!

I completely agree. The only way we can solve this problem is if we identify it. Islam (general) is the fastest growing religion in the world, and if we don't identify and put and end to these racist fabrications and ideologies, our system will become just like what Christianity is today. The Christian depictions of a white Jesus teach Christians that white means "purity" and even "God-like", and that black is evil and demonic. This is the same standard spreading throughout sectarian Islam by their depictions of a white Muhammad, a white Abraham, a white Jesus, a white Moses, and displaying all the other prophets as white too. One thing I've realized is it's influencing the mindset of the so-called "Quranists" too, and this thread is evidence of the fact that it has crept into some people's beliefs, and many of the white Muslims on here who don't consider themselves having racial prejudices still deny that racism even exists in the Islamic world...

So, for that reason, Al Khidr, we need strong brothers like you who are willing to take a stand for the truth, even if it means other will reject it. Your speaking out on the issues of racism in Islam is certainly noticed, acknowledged, and appreciated by all those who see the truth.

Peace,

Ahmad

Salaam Ahmad Bilal

Thanks my Nubian brother for all the comments and compliments that you have said and the same goes for you to brother.

And your statement below is 100% HAQQ

"This is the same standard spreading throughout sectarian Islam by their depictions of a white Muhammad, a white Abraham, a white Jesus, a white Moses, and displaying all the other prophets as white too. One thing I've realized is it's influencing the mindset of the so-called "Quranists" too, and this thread is evidence of the fact that it has crept into some people's beliefs, and many of the white Muslims on here who don't consider themselves having racial prejudices still deny that racism even exists in the Islamic world..."

Peace CousCous,

We don't particular know about the political motivations regarding Ali and his description according to Sunni scholars. All we know is that, according to their hadiths, he was sternly rejected by almost everyone, including Muhammad's wife Aisha, and nobody wanted to see him lead the people. They even tried assassinating him, which eventually occurred by a separate group of "Muslims" who regarded Ali as a disbeliever. But again, these are only rumors and hadiths, not actual facts, and we don't know the truth of any of these people and circumstances because we weren't there...

You are correct. Pale Arabs are not necessarily as "white" as Europeans, and this could've possibly been manipulated by modern scholars. Maybe they were implying that he had a lighter skin complexion... However, this doesn't change the inconsistencies within these hadiths. There were previously texts in the hadith and sunna writings that described Muhammad as being black, and they've been replaced with hadiths about Muhammad being a pale Arab.

According to certain hadiths (i.e. Hadith, Vol. 9162, 163), Muhammad claimed that his dreams of black/Nubian women meant that disease and pestilence was approaching. According to these hadiths, he also called black people "raisin heads" (Hadith Vol. 1662; Vol. 9256). Plus

Muslims are told through the hadiths that
(1) Africans/Nubians "annoy the Prophet" (Ishaq 243)
(2) Blacks/Nubians should be left to die if injured, and should be denied intercession and entrance to heaven (Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 137)

Still not shocked? Look at some of these hadiths

Abu Darda' reported God's messenger as saying, "God created Adam when He created him and struck his right shoulder and brought forth his offspring white like small ants. And He struck his left shoulder and brought forth his offspring BLACK as though they were charcoal. Then He said to the party on his right said, 'To paradise, and I do not care', and He said to the party in his left shoulder 'To hell, and I do not care'." Ahmad transmitted it. (Mishkat Al Masabih, English translation with explanatory notes by Dr. James Robson , Volume I, Chapter IV, Book I.- Faith, pp. 31-32)

Narrated AbudDarda'
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said Allah created Adam when He had to create him and He struck his right shoulder and there emitted from it white offspring as if they were white ants. He struck his left shoulder and there emitted from it THE BLACK OFFSPRINGS as if they were charcoal. He then said (to those who had been emitted) from the right (shoulder) For Paradise and I do not mind. Then He said to those (who had been emitted) from his left shoulder They are for Hell and I do not mind.
Transmitted by Ahmad. (Al-Tirmidhi Hadith, Number 38- ALIM CD ROM Version)

According to these hadiths, black people were created by Allah specifically with the purpose of going to hell! This doesn't sound racist to you? Or what about this

Ahmad ibn Abi Sulayman, the companion of Sahnun, said, "Anyone who says that the Prophet was black SHOULD BE KILLED." (Muhammad Messenger of Allah (Ash-Shifa of Qadi 'Iyad), Qadi 'Iyad Musa al-Yahsubi, translated by Aisha Abdarrahman Bewley , p. 375)

Ahmad ibn Abi Sulayman, Sahnun's companion, said that whoever says that the Prophet was black IS KILLED. The Prophet was not black. (Ibid., p. 387)

These state that Muhammad was definately WHITE, as in EUROPEAN WHITE, and anyone who claimed him to be black/darker skinned should be killed! According to their hadiths, they even imply that Satan himself is black

... The apostle said, "Whoever wants to see Satan let him take a look at Nabtal b. al-Harith!" He was a sturdy black man with long flowing hair, inflamed eyes, and dark ruddy cheeks. He used to come and talk to the apostle and listen to him and then carry what he had said to the hypocrites. It was he who said "Muhammad is all ears if anyone tells him anything he believes it." God sent down concerning him "And of them are those who annoy the prophet and say he is all ears, Say Good ears for you. He believes in God and trusts the believers and is a mercy for those of you who believe; and those who annoy the apostle of God for them there is a painful punishment." (Sura 961) (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasulallah, translated as, The Life of Muhammad by A. Guillaume, page 243)

Now, I don't know how you interpret these, but to me, it looks like the writers had fierce objections and prejudices against black Arabs and Africans/Nubians, even to the extent of saying they are all destined for hell and Satan looks like a black man. This is ridiculous! So, even though the hadiths may have not been literally speaking of Muhammad being as white as Europeans, it is still implying that he, being called "the white man", had lighter skin than the other people around him, and they illustrate that he had extreme views against blacks.

Plenty of hadiths speak of Muhammad owning and selling black slaves, and even raping black women! Do you think this is a good example of Muhammad, a prophet of God? Regardless of whether you view Muhammad as European white, pale, light-brown skinned, or pitch black, it doesn't change the view of blacks that is exhibited throughout the racist Saudi Arabian Muslim society, promoted by pale Arabs and white people. And it's still wrong...

Peace,

Ahmad

Salaam Ahmad Bilal

Thanks brother for presenting those hadiyth which demonstrates the racism in Islaam and how deep this racism actually is. As Islaam dominates the globe this form of racism definately has to be exposed to the masses so that we will not have another repeat of Christianity.

"Now, I don't know how you interpret these, but to me, it looks like the writers had fierce objections and prejudices against black Arabs and Africans/Nubians, even to the extent of saying they are all destined for hell and Satan looks like a black man."

And this is one of the reason why Al Jahiz wrote his book because of the racism the original Nubian Arabs were going through with the imposter White Arabs.

http//www.ipconcealer.com/goto/nph-proxy.cgi/010110A/uggc/=2fserr-zvaqf.bet/sbehz/vaqrk.cuc=3fgbcvp=3d9597416.zft187127#msg187127

Ahmad, I know that you also observed how many people on here are calling us a racist because we are taking a stand to speak out and condemn racism in Islaam and this only testifies to their racism and indoctrination.

Salaam aleikum.

I am sorry Bilal that I forgot the link,been a little distracted.Didnt check the post.

http//exploring-africa.blogspot.com/2008/01/skin-pigmentation-gene-alleles-part-2.html

Mutation is the word Bilal.Thats how they know today that black men were the first creation,because the mutation is numerous.The skin colour is a mutation,and it is likely to have had happen not so long ago.From 6000 to 12000 years ago.The european have been darker longer than they have been white.

I find it strange how you people can from the Koran,draw the thougt that white men is not from Allah.

If you think that your thoughts is more nobel or different than the white racism,you are wrong Bilal.

To unite,and to reforme the character of men,is the way Allah gives us.To be the beings,he knew we could be.

Al Kidr,there is a good articel,here on free minds of jinn,easy to understand and good.

http//www.free-minds.org/jinn Search "who are the jinn" by Layth

Salaam

Thanks for the link and I read it a long time ago. You may want to check this link out on the Jinn

http//kushite.webs.com/jinn.htm

Now what you have said below is ridiculous

"The truth is that the difference only goes skindeep,and the variation beetween africans themselves,are bigger than the differences beetween africans and europeans,or asians,or aboriginies."

All Africans on the continent of Africa are closer to each other in terms of race genetics and this holds true for us Africans throughout the world. All Africans no matter where they are on the planet are genetically closer to each other.

If any of you guys are wondering whether the description of Mohamed in the hadith is reliable, check out the sunni inspired description of Ali; Fat, Black and Bald! Any political motivations?

Also remember that a 'White' Arab usually is nowhere near as 'White' as a European so even though the hadith says he was a 'White Man' doesn't make him a Northern European.

Just something to take into account guys.

CousCous

I think its so funny to see how people try to water down racism. Those hadiyths were design to make it appear that Prophet Muhammad was a white/european and the white man in Islaam only credits Bilal as Black and no one else and if you can understand that then you definately can see that there was a scheme or an agenda to make everything white in Islaam just like how they did in Christianity. When you look at their HIS-STORY, they even make the Moors (who are originally Black) white in their videos and pictures they create. Prophet Muhammad was 360 degrees away from being white, he was dark skinned, he was Black of Nubian/African descent. Those who conquered the original Nubians in Africa, Saudi Arabia, etc. came from Europe. The people consider the present day Jews in Israel are actually europeans, they are not the original Nubians who are the original Hebrews/Jews etc.

There is a lot of racism in hadiyth. There are hadiyth which states that the Black stone they kiss in Mecca was originally white and it turned Black because of the sins of the people who kissed it. The white man has always given the color Black, evil, negative, satanic connotations. Remember Angel Food Cake is WHITE and Devil Food Cake is BLACK. This is a demonstration of how racism is institutionalized which effects the conscious and unconscious level of all people and this same for of racism has been institutionalized in all religions. The prophets did not teach this, this is a result of the dirty practice of men.

belH you have said this

"As I showed in my posts, The new comers will have to accept Mohamed as the Prophet of God, if they want accept the Quran as God's Book."

WRONG AGAIN!

A Muslims is supposed to believe in all the Prophets of Allah and what was revealed to them and not make a distinction between any of them

Qur'aan 2136
Say, ?We believe in Allah, and in what was revealed to us, and in what was revealed to Abraham and Ismaa?il and Isaac and Jacob and the Tribes, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and all the Prophets from their Sustainer. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are Muslims.?

And a Muslim believes in tawhiyd

http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/Tawhiyd/Ch3v18.jpg

BUT WHAT YOU KEEP FAILING OVER AND OVER AGAIN IS TO SHOW US ONE VERSE IN THE QUR'AAN WHERE ALLAH HIMSELF PLACES MUHAMMAD IN THE SHAHAADA. I HAVE SHOWN YOU A VERSE WHERE A MUSLIMS BELIEVES IN ALL THE PROPHETS BUT THE BELIEF OF A PROPHET HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SHAHAADA. THE SHAHAADA IS A DIFFERENT REALITY AND IT ONLY BEARS ALLAH'S NAME ALONE AS DEMONSTRATED IN THE VERSE ABOVE.

LOOK AT THE VERSES BELOW SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT PROPHET MUHAMMAD ONLY BELIEVED IN AND FOLLOWED THE SUNNA OF ALLAH AND ALLAH TELLS US THAT HIS SUNNA NEVER CHANGES SO IF MUHAMMAD ONLY DECLARED LA ILAHA ILLA ALLAH (318; 619; 2014) THAT ALSO MEANS WHEN THE OTHER PROPHETS WERE ON THE SCENE THEY ALSO DECLARED & BELIEVED IN THE SAME THING BECAUSE AGAIN ALLAH'S SUNNA IS THE SAME FOR ALL THE MESSENGERS OF THE PAST AND IT WILL NEVER CHANGE

http//webzoom.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/Test%20Graphics/Ch17v77%20size%2060.JPG

http//webzoom.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/Test%20Graphics/Ch48v23%20size%2065.JPG

http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/sunnainquraan.htm

I will now leave you with this verse from the Holy Qur'aan

Qur?aan 1636
We have sent a Messenger to every nation/community, saying, ?You shall worship Allah, and avoid idolatry.? Some of them were guided by Allah, while others were committed to straying. Roam the planet earth and note the consequences for the rejectors.

Thanks Al Khidr for the long repley to my postings stating nothing new but I refute strongly and vehemently your claim and that of Al Khidr and Amin74 that caucasoid people are not descendants of Adam. That is a racial biased and separatist view with no support in the Quran!! Rather the opposite

3022. And from His signs is the creation of the heavens and the Earth, and THE DIFFERENCE OF your languages and YOUR COLOURS. In that are signs for the world.

3023. And FROM THE PEOPLE, and the animals, and the livestock, ARE VARIOUS COLOURS. As such, only the knowledgeable among God?s servants reverence Him. God is Noble, Forgiving.

Allah tells us that it was IT that is responsible for our different appearances and not Iblis breeding with Adams wife like you want people to believe.
If it is beyond your comprehension to understand the matter of diversity I would advise to seek knowledge the way Allah tells us

20. Say ?Roam the Earth and observe how the creation was initiated. Thus God will establish the final creation. God is capable of all things.?

The answer can be found in exploring creation itself and not in mythological books.

Peace....Chris

Chris

You said I made a claim huh..... You are jumping to fast with the gun. I challenge YOU to quote me to back up your statement.

But I will leave you with this

http//ipconcealer.com/goto/nph-proxy.cgi/010110A/uggc/=2fserr-zvaqf.bet/sbehz/vaqrk.cuc=3fgbcvp=3d9597416.zft188095#msg188095

You can also download the JINN

http//kushite.webs.com/jinn.htm

belH

I have a question for you, since you believe Muhammad's name should be in the original Shahaada when you do salaat do you also mention his name while you are in the process of performing salaat?

Peace BelH,

Ummm... hmm Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the words, "Ash-hadu an la ilaaha ila Allah wa ash-hadu ana Muhammad ar-rasuwlu Allah" anywhere in any of those Quranic verses. What you have quoted are your own opinonated words, not the words of Allah. What is the purpose of this? If you didn't get the words from the Quran, then you have gotten them from another source. And coincidentally, these words occur plenty of times thoughout the hadith and sunna writings... ) Please show us a verse FROM THE QURAN stating your Sunni shahaada.

Peace,

Ahmad

Thank you brother Ahmad Bilal and at least we can quote just one verse in the Qur'aan that bears Allah's name ALONE without Muhammad's name being injected and plus this verse starts ouT with the first Arabic word which is Shahida (Shahaada)

http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/Tawhiyd/Ch3v18.jpg

Peace Anwar,

You are correct in saying that Adam is not mentioned by name in 41. However, here is the literal translation of it

O people, be conscious of your Sustainer/Lord who created you from NAFSIN WAAHIDATIN, and He created from it it's spouse, and He scattered from them many men and women; and be conscious of Allah of whom you ask of eachother and the wombs. Allah has been observing you. (41)

Now, the most clear and common meanings of "nafsin" are self, soul, person, or desire. The meaning of "waahid" always refers to one individual object or person. Self, soul, and person all convey the same concept, so this lowers it down to PERSON or DESIRE. It would be illogical for this to be referring to a "desire" because it says that from this "nafsin", Allah also formed it's "spouse". Throughout the scriptures, the word "spouse" is used exclusively for humans. So, this clearly indicates that the verse was speaking about a human person when it mentioned "nafsin waahidatin"/one being. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have spoken of this creature having a "spouse". Also, the verse goes on to relate this creature to the "one whom you ask" and it refers specifically to "alarhama"/the womb, which shows a direct reference to a father and mother. So, why would this verse compare the "nafsin" and it's spouse to our parents if these CREATURES weren't individual human beings?

Like I said, you can believe as you wish, and I'm not trying to force an opinion on you at all. I'm just pointing out the most logical conclusion. You don't have to consult a thick textbook on Arabic language and grammar to understand what the Quran is explaining. Just look up the other uses of the word "nafsin" throughout the scriptures, and see what the general meaning of it is. You'll notice that the most common uses of it are referring specifically to self, soul, person, or desire, and "self" or "person" are the most sensible translations for it in this verse.

Peace,

Ahmad

Salaam Ahmad Bilal

PROFOUND ARGUMENT!

Al-Khidr,

My first reaction to this is to chuckle at the nonsense. So I'm gonna get that out of the way first. laugh

Sorry, but it was necessary. So now that that is out of the way. Secondly for probably the 5th time now I'll repeat the verse that I base my conclusions on 711. Let me say that again 711 In case you didn't get it 711. That makes it 8 times now.

That's really all I have to say cuz I'm getting tired of talking to a parrot like you. You really take the substance away from any discussion. Call me what you want, but I'm just calling it how I see it. Believe what you want to believe. The sad part is that it is more than obvious that you are a Mr. Flame. But I'll just be content with knowing that all your pent up frustration from that toxic mindset you carry will eventually poison and destroy your very soul, no matter what you call yourself 'Muslim', 'Nubian', Alkebulanese, or whatever. In the end I hope you come around, but if you don't it will be no one's fault but your own. The Mr. Flame is a Quranic reference, we'll see if you get it, or understand why I said it that way. At best you'll just make up some excuse and detract away from your own ignorance, or atleast try to. And then throw in the empty Uncle Tom comments (or maybe some new insult you got up your sleeve) which is common fare already. That will be no suprise. Hopefully you'll turn around. In the mean time, i know you must take your own path, I just really hope you get it together.

May God guide you,
Anwar

THE END

Anwar

Thank you for your CHRISTIAN sermon.

And you have said this

"Sorry, but it was necessary. So now that that is out of the way. Secondly for probably the 5th time now I'll repeat the verse that I base my conclusions on 711. Let me say that again 711 In case you didn't get it 711. That makes it 8 times now."

Yes brother I got it 8 times from you now but what you seem to fail to realize which Ahmad and I have constantly pointed out to you is that the context of that verse is not talking about the original man from which all of mankind came from so can you show us a verse in the Qur'aan that is talking about the original man from which all of mankind came from which means humanity, mankind, a collective, a plural? Until then I will leave you with the Qur'aan which says the original man is WAAHID (ONE)

http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/hamaa/Ch4v1onebeing.jpg

Qur'aan 7189
He created you from ONE (WAAHID) person....

Notice that I can go to the verses that directly talks about the original man being ONE so where is your verses at that is DIRECTLY talking about the original man being/meaning humanity, mankind?

Christoph Haupt you said

?The hotly disputed verse 41 makes sense for me in the big picture speaking of a single cell separating itself into two cells and from this stage developing the different sexes.?

Actually when you said splitting cells, I think that interpretation would possibly fit better with this verse below compared to 41

Qur?aan 962
He created man from an embryo

This is talking about the natural creation of man.

?but to pick on the Bible for explanation I do not think necessary bearing in mind that Quran is a detailed, all explaining book, is it not??

I don?t think you were listening to Ahmad Bilal critically because he did not diminish the creation of Adam?s mate to a rib in the Bible. He made some critical points that he made to demonstrate what you said did not hold up. First of all Chris you said

But if ALLAH created mankind from ONE person then why does ALLAH tells in Verse 4913 about mankind created from a male and female. That would be TWO person!

Then Ahmad Bilal responded as such

This would not be a contradiction at all. It only alludes to the wife of Adam (i.e. "Eve&quot having a geneology tracing back to Adam as well. For example, the Quran never specifies the creation of Adam's wife, and it never mentions her being born. The first instance of her being mentioned is in 235, and that says

We said, "O Adam, live with your wife in paradise, and eat therefrom generously, as you please, but do not approach this tree, lest you sin." (235)

This is the first instance where Adam's wife (often called "Eve&quot is mentioned at all. So, where did she come from? Why does Allah speak about creating Adam, but he doesn't mention creating his wife? The only acceptable explanation is that she also came from Adam. Now, since men can't give birth, then she must've been formed another way from Adam outside of natural childbirth?.

Chris in addition notice that when Ahmad further elaborated he used the word ?allude? which means a possibility in other words he is throwing ideas on the table and he also said ?Either way, she came from Adam, just like all other humans ("banee Adam&quot did? and the fact Chris that Eve came from Adam sheds a lot of light on your misconception that the interpretation of Adam being ONE contradiction 4913. And in closing Ahmad said ?factual, at least to a degree? which again does not denote absoluteness in terms of explanation/interpretation but what you have to contend with is the fact that Eve came from Adam but how? Nevertheless the alleged contradiction of interpretation got resolved from the Qur?aanic FACT that Adam is ONE.

Chris you have said

?Exhibiting this story could although implie that Islam is meant for the black man only, because Quran is a beacon for human mankind so what about the half-human/subhuman white people??

Ahmad Bilal nor I have indicated this, thus all races can become Muslims; all races can practice Islaam. In the Holy Qur?aan Allah says that there are some jinns who accepted the truth of the Qur?aan 721-2, evidently they became Muslims. Chris you are reading into things that no one has said nor is implying; Chris is all this as a result of because I started a post to address the fact that the white man in Islaam created or fabricated words of men (hadiyth) stating that the Prophet Muhammad is a white man and demonstrated how those hadiyths are false that contradicts Al Qur?aan? I don?t think I nor Ahmad committed a crime addressing this form of racism in Islaam.

Ahmad Bilal

Did you notice that Anwar said this

?The Quran borrowed the language of the ancient Arabs?

I always that the revelation came from Allah, thus "borrowed" denotes man-made?

Ahmad Bilal,

You said
What about the tons of African/Nubian Muslim who also subscribe the last prophet Muhammad (God bless him) as a partner when they mention Allah? Have you heard the Shiites? West African are no different. The Sunni/Sufi Muslims in Senegal use the same Arabic phrases the Muslims in Saudi Arabia or Bosnia use. And they have been using them since Islam came to those lands before 1200 AD.The Shiites ascribe Muhammad (God bless him), his whole family and Ali! And black Iraqis are just as Shia as the rest of the Shia Iraqis who you might not consider black. Alot of African Muslims are Sunni/Sufi Muslims but they say all the same things that the white Muslims say. They also promote the same "blasphemous" "pagan" rituals (as you call them) of Mekka. So i really don't understand how you are trying to pin the misguided things in Islam on "white" Muslims and act like the Africa/Nubian Musilms don't do the very same things?

Godbless,
Anwar

Anwar

You are looking at things in the micro realm and not the macro realm which is a big difference. Can you acknowledge that global white supremacy exist? Can you acknowledge that its only the white race that is trying and succeeding at this point in dominating the entire planet?

The white race

-conquered and enslaved every single contenant and also renamed the contenant and countries and the native people of those countries. Examples, Africa is not the original name of our Motherland, it was renamed after one of their Greek people whose name was Africanconus. The white man has renamed the Asians such as China, Philipines our people in India because that is not their original names. When you sit back and look at the power to be able to accomplish this feat of the world is pure SATAN. Name one Black folk who has taking evil to this level.

-There always have been battles, wars, disputes, etc. in the world but Our ancestors in Africa never enslaved our people nor sold our people we were conquered/enslaved by the white race. Again we have battles and wars with each other just like all races. However, the white man came to our country and totally destroyed it and instituted the worst slavery ever recorded in the entire world. We lost over 100 Million people during the middle passage alone (middle passage refers to them taking us from africa on ships to america) and when slavery was set up in America, Jamaica, West Indies, Brazil, etc. etc. we lost millions more. Tell me one Black race or group that has done something on this level of SATAN.

-The white man has dropped the atomic bomb and wiped our nations not just once but several times. There has not been not one Black folk or any people of color that has done something as evil, SATAN as this.

-Why is it that its only the white man who has set out to conquer the entire planet and bring the entire planet under the rule called the new world order. Why hasn't no other race on earth has or is doing this except the white man.

Anwar no matter how much faults YOU can find in Nubians (Black, Brown, Red, Yellow), it could never compare nor come close to what the collective deeds of the white man has committed all over this planet, I'm sorry you cannot equate us with them in any form or fashion and why is that? Can you Anwar seriously help us to find the answers as to why this is a reality? Now I will end this point with one of our Greatest Nubian Leaders

Malcolm X Collective Deeds of the White Man
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3Csdwfxy4A

Salaam Khidr
I read these posts and none of them answers my question. You sited different derivatives of the word "bashar" but none of them stands for a plural of it. When I say there's more than one Adam, I base it on knowing that "bashar" is not a singular but a collective plural. Just like "insan" which you agree that it is a collective plural. You can also derive similar derivatives from "insan'as you did with 'bashar`'. Would this change the fact that it's a collective plural?Would the existence of the word 'insaaniyya" change your mind about the 'insan" being a collective plural?

Samia

Yes I have responded to the question at hand. Again Anwar stated that Bashar means humanity, mankind so what I have done was provided a form of Bashar that does mean mankind and it is just so happens that form is not there. Remember Samia, I was the one who presented various forms for Bashar and provided the link that any body can download so I'm not saying that Bashar can't have different forms and again the fact that I provided various forms removes that thought. Below Bashar in this verse does not mean a collective plural

http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/hamaa/Ch15v28hamaablack.jpg

Samia, what proof do you have that this word Basharaan in this context means a collective plural? Samia this dialogue have been developing for a while now and Ahmad Bilal and I have provided strong evidence to denote the fact that Adam is ONE (WAAHID). I can't force you-you can believe what you want so I will close out by saying that those who believe Adam is a collective or means humanity/mankind or think that there are more than one "Adam" have not produced the evidence. Thus, so far Anwar has been the main person leading this perspective and he fails over and over to produce a verse, so perhaps you Samia can produce a verse. Ahmad Bilal and I are not fighting the issue, we are just asking for a verse then we will be happy to submit to the truth because its in the Qur'aan as simple as that, so again I will leave with these verses

http//i329.photobucket.com/albums/l363/kushitex/hamaa/Ch4v1onebeing.jpg

Qur'aan 7189
He created you from ONE (WAAHID) person.