Salam,

Thanks Halil, I hope your mom has found peace. May Allah give her peace and happiness, inshallah. If your doctrine draws out your problems, I am convinced that you will be strong and wiser

Thank you all for your nice comments and your warm welcome group
I will quickly respond to your questions about possession, also with evidence from the Qur'an, inshallah.

Sallam sister on Allah way,nice story.

Alaikoem salam,

Thank you

peace

Azul fellawen = Salam or Hi is Amazigh language

Salam,

That's nice .
I unfortunately no longer speak the Amazigh language. I've forgotten because I was away from my family and grew up with Dutch people. Are you Amazigh loxbox13?

Thanks, peace

Salam,

Thank you for your reply.
I asked this to you because I want to find out how properly to do the salat. When I was in the way of the Sunnis, I did the salat differently, many additions to the salat and the prophet Muhammad in shahada. When I was later convinced of God alone, I followed submission.org, I did not know that this is wrong. Now I have found free-minds and feel at home here. As long as I have not found how to do the salat, I'll do that as I do now. Surat Al-Fatiha alone without addition, shahada la ila ilallah, I never add more partners to Allah &. I will explore more in the Koran and share that with you inshallah. May Allah give us more knowledge.

peace

welcome

Like your name, Amazigh. Sounds amazing!

Thank you . Amazigh is a name of a people. If you want to know, visit this http//amazigh-voice.com/history.html
sun

AZUL FELLAWEN

What does this mean? ???

peace

Peace,
Respect.

sun welcome welcome to the forum, sister and God bless you.
I'm always glad to meet more people who have this kinda courage and
we need more people not only on this forum but in society as well.

Peace.

Thanks brother and everyone. May Allah lead all people on His way, inshallah. I feel so much love with each other on free-minds. I have never experienced in other ways. The way of Allah is full of love and justice handshake

Peace all
peace

This is an article i wrote. My first on a topic in Quran. If you read it, please let me know what you think

The purpose of this article is to argue against the widely accepted belief that the Quran prohibits sex before marriage. I intend to do this by using the Quran to justify a case of pre-marital sex where it is acceptable in the light of the Quran.

Unless you take the root Zay-Nun-Ya or Fa-Ha-Shin to literally mean premarital sex, the prohibition of sex before marriage is not stated in the Quran. There are also no verses in the Quran where sex is made exclusive to marriages. Thus sex is not exclusive to marriages and can be done outside of wedlock. The fact that sex is not explicitly prohibited does not mean that it is ok to have sex with anyone under any circumstance. The Quran places restrictions and limitations which prevent such a scenario. There are two limitations which I will point out

The first limitation I will explain via the following Verses of 235-6

235 And they keep covered their private parts.
236 Except around their spouses (azwaaj), or those who are maintained by their oaths (ma malakat aymanukum), they are free from blame.
237 But whoever seeks anything beyond this, then these are the transgressors.

From these verses, it is clear that none should have access to the private parts except the following two categories Spouses (Azwaaj) and those who are committed to you by oaths (ma malakat aymanukum) Thus SO FAR sex can only be done with those two categories of people. However this presents us with a problem as anyone could be committed to an individual by oath. Thus theoretically if an orphan is committed to you by oath.....then he can have access to your private parts.
This is where the second limitation comes in

Fa-Ha-Shin which has the possible following meanings
became excessive/immoderate/enormous/exorbitant/overmuch/beyond measure, foul/bad/evil/unseemly/indecency/abominable, lewd/gross/obscene, committing excess which is forbidden, transgress the bounds/limits, avaricious, adultery/fornication.

An example of the usage of Fa-Ha-Shin can be seen in 1732 And do not come near adultery, for it is lewdness and an evil path.

If we take lewdness into account, then it becomes clear that showing your private parts to an orphan who is committed to you by oath is forbidden (unless you have a really good and un-lewd reason to do so which is very unlikely) Thus (though highly unlikely) no one can claim that they were showing their private parts to their orphan and then justify themselves with verses such as 235-6. Such an act will go strongly against reason and heart in which their justification becomes invalid just by that alone. Nevertheless for the purposes of this article, it is an act of lewdness indicated by reason and heart and thus prohibited by the Quran. Thus this takes out the possibility of all gross acts such as the example given.
I will now discuss some of the possible objections to my argument.

One possible objection to my argument, is the following verse 2433

And let those who are not able to marry continue to be chaste until God enriches them of His Bounty. And if those who are maintained by your oaths seek to consummate the marriage, then document it with them if you find that they are ready, and give them from the wealth of God which He has bestowed upon you. And do not force your young women to need if they have desired to be independent, in order that you may make a gain in the goods of this worldly life. And if anyone has compelled them, then for their compulsion, God is Forgiving, Merciful.

It requests of those who are unable to marry to remain chaste implying that they should not have sex until they have married. I disagree with this translation and understanding for the following reason

If we look at a word by word translation, the word chaste actually isn?t there. What?s actually used is abstain. But his could mean to abstain from something different to sex such as abstaining from unlawful sex and not sex as a whole.

Another possible objection
It may be argued that the permission to expose the private parts to those you are committed to by oath given in the Quran does not include the permission to have sex. This is not the case as in order for something to be prohibited, it needs to be stated in the Quran. If it is not stated, then it is not prohibited and as sex is not prohibited beyond the limits already discussed, then it is permitted. Consider the following If we are to say that the private parts (in the case of those who are committed to an individual by oath) are for exposure only and nothing more, then this becomes problematic. Imagine a surgeon attempting to operate on an individual?s private part. The surgeon can see the private part of the individual as the surgeon is committed to the individual by oath however the surgeon will not be able to go beyond seeing the private part (even though the individual has consented to operating on the private part) and thus be unable to a operate on the individual. This would be the case if we were to accept that the private parts can only be exposed and nothing more can be done to them.

Moving on....
The concept of lewdness is subjective. What may appear lewd to an individual may appear normal to another. Consider a one night stand. Some will consider the act as lewd and some will think it acceptable. Topics such as a one night stand are controversial and open to debate. However when the act of sex is done between a couple who are both morally upright and are comfortable with each other and are not rushing one another and it does not go against their reason and heart prior to the act, then I see no controversy in such a case. I doubt that in such a case there is any lewdness. If anyone objects to this, please indicate the lewdness you pick out from this.

In conclusion, pre-marital sex is not prohibited in the Quran. There are clear limitations and subjective limitations. Issues such as a one night stand may possibly be justified in the light of the Quran. As outrageous as this claim may appear to some, I truly believe that it may hold some truth.

The end.

Some addiotional points

In a discussion with a friend, when attempting to argue against one night stands, I could not get anywhere as his argument was clearly the more reasonable and stronger. I will present a revised summary of our discussion What could be wrong with two healthy (no disabilities such as down-syndrome or any influence of alcohol) and responsible people agreeing to have sex on one night even though they have just met on the night? I responded by saying that that would make sex meaningless and without passion. But would it necessarily do this? I cannot tell. And even if it does, how could it be wrong when both have agreed to it and it?s not harming anyone else? (please note this was an argument with my friend which I have attempted to summarise. What I have written down isn?t exactly what was said but rather the key points pointed out and discussed. My purpose of this example was to show the importance of reason and how someone like my friend could justify himself in the sight of God)

I could not answer him and considered that he might be right and that my rejection of his view is purely based on my upbringing and not of my reasoning. My heart did object to it at first but I tried to view the act in a different and more positive light in order to be unbiased, and my heart did not object to it anymore. Before i was viewing this act in a negative light and that is why i believe my heart objected to it then. But both scenarios that i attmepted to comprehend can take place in reality. The negative more likely to occure then the positive. I dislike the idea of a one night stand personally.

If I am not mistaken, virginity in the Iranian culture is seen as a good thing and I believe that this is similar amongst Quranists. Ironically virginity in some places and in the sight of some people is seen as a bad thing. With the use of reason and the Quran, hopefully we will get to the truth.

peace

I'm shocked by this news. If you are doubt, you can better not do it. tempt The servants of God are not in doubt. And what about fatherless children left behind with mother, by sex before marriage? And centuries ago, when there was no pill and condom?

Ahoedoe bilahie mina shetan irazjim >

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. pr

And as for those who are guilty of an indecency from among your women, call to witnesses against them four (witnesses) from among you; then if they bear witness confine them to the houses until death takes them away or Allah opens some way for them.

And as for the two who are guilty of indecency from among you, give them both a punishment; then if they repent and amend, turn aside from them; surely Allah is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.

And she who guarded her chastity, so We breathed into her of Our inspiration and made her and her son a sign for the nations.

(This is) a chapter which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful.

(As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.

The fornicator shall not marry any but a fornicatress or idolatress, and (as for) the fornicatress, none shall marry her but a fornicator or an idolater; and it is forbidden to the believers.

And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses, flog them, (giving) eighty stripes, and do not admit any evidence from them ever; and these it is that are the transgressors,

Except those who repent after this and act aright, for surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

And (as for) those who accuse their wives and have no witnesses except themselves, the evidence of one of these (should be taken) four times, bearing Allah to witness that he is most surely of the truthful ones.

O you who believe! do not follow the footsteps of the Shaitan, and whoever follows the footsteps of the Shaitan, then surely he bids the doing of indecency and evil; and were it not for Allah's grace upon you and His mercy, not one of you would have ever been pure, but Allah purifies whom He pleases; and Allah is Hearing, Knowing.

Surely those who accuse chaste believing women, unaware (of the evil), are cursed in this world and the hereafter, and they shall have a grievous chastisement.

Say to the believing men that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts; that is purer for them; surely Allah is Aware of what they do.

And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers, or the fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or those whom their right hands possess, or the male servants not having need (of women), or the children who have not attained knowledge of what is hidden of women; and let them not strike their feet so that what they hide of their ornaments may be known; and turn to Allah all of you, O believers! so that you may be successful.

Surely the men who submit and the women who submit, and the believing men and the believing women, and the obeying men and the obeying women, and the truthful men and the truthful women, and the patient men and the patient women and the humble men and the humble women, and the almsgiving men and the almsgiving women, and the fasting men and the fasting women, and the men who guard their private parts and the women who guard, and the men who remember Allah much and the women who remember-- Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a mighty reward.

peace

peace )

if i may focus on this particular verse, i'd like to know more about this raising of the voice or lowering it... in what way is that meant?
'cause when i talk to God i usually do it in my head, i don't know if my voice is loud or low.

Say Call upon Allah or call upon, the Beneficent God; whichever you call upon, He has the best names; and do not utter your prayer with a very raised voice nor be silent with regard to it, and seek a way between these.

Salam alaikoem brothers and sisters,

Thank you for your welcome group

Nafi, thank you for your advice, if you don?t mind, I leave it like it is. I have long done typing, my English is not so good, reading and talking is better than writing. Sometimes I use the translator and my son sometimes helps me D

How do I know I was possessed?
I often was not myself, I did things I never would.
I looked different, had a different look and looked dark. I was irritated and angry and sometimes I scream.
When the jhin came up, than I was a different person, I could not stand jokes, while I really love jokes.
When I heard Quran I irritated me and I did not want to hear it. I felt presence and sometimes he touched me.
I felt very heavy, and after the attack I was very tired, my energy was gone. I could tell people about their past and their future while I do not know, that was scary. If anyone came near who also possessed than I felt. If you are possessed and you get an attack, you talk some other languages that you do not normally speak. I know more people who are possessed and recognize all these things in their. Usually people who associate partners with Allah. The people who are not on the way of Allah, and susceptible also to sihr. If you only follow Quran then you're protected by Allah, alhamdoelilah. When I got on the way of Allah (only Quran), I was better. I feel happy, light and got back myself. sun

Greetings from Amazigh

Salam alaikoem brothers and sisters.

This is how I pray. http//www.submission.org/salat-how.html pr When I followed the path of the Sunnis in the past, I did my prayers as they did. 5 years ago I was led to the Quran alone. Then I began to pray as I learned from www.submission.org 5 times a day But now I read on a free-minds here that the prayer is 3 times a day. I also read in the Qur'an that the shahada is only la ilaha ilallah. How do you do your prayer, and what time do you pray?

Salam alaikoem peace

My story about my conversion to Islam

Salam alaikoem,

I am a Moroccan woman, single mother of two children aged 19 and 14 years. I grew up in Dutch family with Christianity. I have reconnected with my Moroccan family since 2001. I've always believed in God, but always been searching for the right faith and sought in all religions except Islam. Islam, I found an unjust faith by what I saw and heard (I have my Moroccan family never taught about Islam). I always went to church but my heart always told me that something was wrong. The Christians also said, take the light of God in your heart but I could not feel it. I had a sick feeling when they said that Jesus is our God and Father and the Son of God. I wanted to make contact with God, but that could not only through Jesus and I found it very annoying. Until one day end year 2000, I was trying to leave my ex (he was a bad man and atheist). I was deeply unhappy. I said to God "Please point me the way!" A few months later, I got my family back through a Dutch television program and came into contact with Islam. I was convinced that Islam is the right religion and felt the light was burning in my heart. I wanted to talk to God but I had trouble keeping his name on my lips to get and talk to him. I felt him as if he said to me, "but it is good to talk to Me." I finally got it and I thought it was a great feeling. I often spoke to God and He answered me in my dreams. I know this does not Christianity. I also found in Islam things not found in Christianity, such as djins, and that Jesus was a prophet, there was much that was not told in church. I found it a strange punishment we were sent to earth just because Adam and Eve ate the apple. Now I understand the truth, Islam is complete and very beautiful. I asked God where to go with my kids. He told me in my dream I was at a women's shelter in Amsterdam. I did not and called all the brokers in the Netherlands for a home, but failed to get a home. I did not go back to Amsterdam so close to my Moroccan family. I called all the women's shelter in the Netherlands but there was no place except in Amsterdam. If Allah destines has something for the people it happens. I have one and half years I lived in women's shelter and then I got a house. My ex had me and my children for years and had made it difficult from one trial after another, I was sick and my children. When I asked God what to do right before the trial, then I got very nice dreams. Once I dreamed (which I found very nice) that I have more people on a stoop Sat, who was stuck inside the volcano all the way around and above the lava. God was there, I could literally see Him but He was there and also shetan. We had always read from the Koran and learn to trust Him. If shetan got closer than I cried, "God help!" Allah said "Read the Koran and trust me," This happened over and over again and we had to stand on that stoop join hands and walk across the pavement without a surface, so the floating lava running down there. I sank down toward the lava and called on Allah for help and he always said "Trust me, trust me!" I finally got dropped and no more. The next day I had a trial and felt God's presence, I had nothing to say, my ex, the judge had failed more through his tricks. My lawyer told me all in advance that it was very difficult to win this (including my ex wanted joint custody but his behavior, I found it a bad idea and he did not want my kids growing up with Islam, I trusted God and let Him decide what was right, He decided the good. Meanwhile my ex deceased since 2007 and since then it went better with us, how silly it sounds. He himself was in itself tangled and teased us with it. It was all unnecessary, I was not a difficult ex, I was always good for him and he could always pick up the kids. When I converted to Islam (late 2001) I did a lot of knowledge and met various groups, I occasionally went to Germany for a weekend several Muslims from around the world to meet and attend lectures and to The Hague. Often to the mosque for lectures and read many books, I opened a site about Islam for children and adults. I learned that there was a difference in groups. Gradually I began to have doubts about this way of holy faith, but did believe in Allah. I went very far in the faith and wore a long veil. I followed everything as how you had to protect against shetan like going outside with your left leg first inside and vice versa, sleep on your right side, facing Mecca, Eating with your right hand and left hand for dirty things. You could not whistle in the house but was shetan, in the evening if you do not cut your nails then the djins sihr do with it. I noticed that they only had shetan and the Prophet said this and that and they read only for hadith and not the Koran. If the Qur'an was read out it was just briefly in the beginning and singing in Arabic. When I said I wanted to understand than they said it was not necessary to understand your heart understand it. There was much talk about the rules for women and what they were saying I was unfair. On one hand I thought, this can never come from Allah, Allah is just. But did my best to accept it because I did not disappoint God I was keen on his way. Much was made to you that you have a long way was and how well you did your best and how long veil were you doing up is not good enough, and it was still the question as to whether it would reach paradise even if you did everything right. They said e.g. see you stuck with that veil do you think you are already good, the are always negative. They talked often about non Muslims, that should keep your distance and when they asked about Islam than what you had to say. in short all the negative things and actually I can not remember they had about God, it was as if God was really the prophet as they only talk about him. I was unhappy when I was there and would often cry and looked around me always other women weeping. Later, when I converted to only Koran (2005), I also that Allah says "Let not their speech grieve you." You were also very frightened of the grave, I always prayed I cried and asked to Allah to protect me for the grave. I was physically and mentally sick by my ex, and the belief of the sunnis, and became possessed of a jhin. I was very thin and everything I ate and drank came right out. Months I lay in bed and could not move me much. Once on a summer day in 2005 I was in bed was more than 30 degrees and was below two quilts but felt cold. I could not even lift my arm, and begged God for help. Then I started shaking really hard in my possession of the djin. That night could not my children sleep and looked out, it was pitch dark and they saw that the leaves in the tree pushed aside, in the form of Allah's name written in Arabic, the name Allah was pretty lit, small tree below was a white dove off his wings to move. The kids made me wake up early to come and watch, I felt a lot better and saw it but it was already fading. When I received contact with a Dutch man who was for years the imam of the suffies, and he was convinced and converted to only Quran and no more hadith. I was on msn to him about Islam were chatting and he asked me to read the Quran. I had the Koran in the house but never read it, frankly I was scared by the stories in the mosque, I learned just hadith's. After more urging, After more urging I took the Koran to read. Everything I said about Islam, he said I had to browse in the Quranic verse to such and such should go and tell him what Allah says in the Quran. Quran spoke to me more and I was very surprised and shocked. Yet still I hesitated and he asked, "what does your head and what does your heart." I said, "my head says no but my heart says yes it's true." I was sick that made me mad by the djin. I was very confused and cried to God "Please God let me not go astray I want to continue on your way, what do I believe it!" The next day I was very angry at this man because he brought me confused. The next day he told me "You were angry with me, huh?" I thought how does he know, but he also did when he was convinced of Quran alone. That night I had a dream from Allah. He said to me "I bring you a new heart, a heart that is pure". And the next day while I was awake I saw a grave to float, come to me as if I was dreaming, while Allah gave me the feeling, "here you do not be afraid of you not coming in". Everything I went through I encountered in the Quran, that the servants of Allah, not their soul in the grave will come, but go back to paradise (The Sunnis say something else and make you afraid). Allah says also "Let not their speech grieve you and the servants of Allah will not grieve." I really enjoyed reading the Quran I wanted more and more and was happy while I was afraid of the quran. I soon began to pray in the pure way, and since then I was better in my possession. I felt so light and happy. After one week I took my veil off and pray without a veil. It is impossible to describe what a feeling I had while, so natural and free. I was very surprised how many people have lost the way of Allah. I read in the Qur'an that shetan take the most people to hell, and the servants of Allah be protected by Allah so shetan not come close. And the people who read and follow fake books, God sends them a jhin which makes them even more difficult, so I understood why I was possessed and that sihr hits you when you're not follow pure Allah's way. Weeks I had need to get rid of all that crap that I had inside all those years of reading hadith, I had weeks headache and tingling in my fingers. Since then, it well and I feel happy hamdoelilah.
How difficult it sometimes was with some people, I lost some friends and 2 sisters thought about me I was lost from the way of Allah. But I stayed strong and in Allah's way. I feel all I would lose everything, I stay in Allah's way and nobody will keep me unless Allah wants.

May God be with you, greetings from Amazigh