Edit? Have a look at my account, I used my real name, people can see my face, and the most provocative post was shown on google when you put my name on it. Forget it. ;D
AHAHAHA thanks bro , I dont use forums this is my first time , its okay atleast I can make a new post with my updated findings . That made me laugh )
Peace brother
;D lol
Let's say, this is an excuse, Im too ashamed to admit for my weakness here, as for Im going to say, people just like this Thread Starter, was people who was being fooled by his own instinct. And what made me relieved is, Im not the only one, people will draw the same conclusion.
Hey bro first off I dont drink Alcohol and I said aleady we should avoid alcohol and gambling , I used to drink when I was younger I dont now. My position has changed slightly since my first post but I dont think there is a way to edit it so ill say it here. Whats haram is clearly stated in the Quran. Is alcohol haram , NO , should we avoid it or leave it aside YES . I only made the original thread because I believed it could be referring to a pastime of Alcohol and gambling, this would not change anything It was just an idea , however I have changed my stance on that since I see they are mentioned seperatedly ''fihimma'' and other hints that its a not a phrase but 2 separate words. So yes its best to stay away from them but I will never say its Haram , whats Haram is made extremely clear so I see Allah more as advising us to steer clear of Satan and his tools to be succesful.
If theres a way to edit my original post or even delete it Id be more than happy to, and I didnt make it to please my own instincts or support my alcoholism. Im not an alcoholic ( i was when i was in my late teens), I dont drink and I do believe we should AVOID or LEAVE ASIDE that type of stuff from Satan HOWEVER if I was invited as a guest somewhere and someone handed me a beer , IF I drink it I would not feel I committed any sin and I wouldent have anymore because I know it can lead to sin. This is my stance .
Peace brother
Great post. I agree ritually slaughtering of animals is only allowed at the qiblah when used for offerings.
I suppose you are referring to Mecca when speaking about "a new qiblah". What happened to the old qiblah? Was there something wrong with it?
Peace
Salam brother
thank you and yea I was referring to Mecca , the last one was Jerusalem until Allah changed it to the Masjid al Haram in Mecca
We have certainly seen the turning of your face, , toward the heaven, and We will surely turn you to a qiblah with which you will be pleased. So turn your face toward al-Masjid al-Haram. And wherever you are, turn your faces toward it . Indeed, those who have been given the Scripture well know that it is the truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.
"And from wherever you set off, you shall turn your face towards the Masjid Al-Haram. This is the truth from your Lord and indeed God is not unaware of what you do" 2149
"We did not appoint the Qiblah which you were on except to know who follows the messenger and who would turn back on their heels" 2143
"Even if you were to produce to those who have been given the scripture every kind of miracle, they will not follow your Qiblah. Nor will you follow their Qiblah. They do not even follow each others' Qiblah." 2145
and some Ahlul Kitab continued to use the Jerusalam Qiblah until 70 AD when the Romans destroyed it so although it was still thier Qiblah they could no longer offer sacrifices any more because there was no temple to sacrifice at and today theres a mosque on that Temple Mount.
Even human sacrifice seems agreeable if done in the right context, not of sacrifice, but of justice. For example, to kill evildoers during wars against injustice, can be thought of as mass scale human sacrifice in the name of God. Even in the ancient places where they performed "Human Sacrifice" they were often killing criminals largely and enemies, the people they would have killed anyway, except they dedicated the whole act of justice to God possibly. The act of killing the innocent though, even in the name of God, is not right though, and that sort of "sacrifice" is just self destructive and evil. God can make it otherwise and make it a good thing, and it may be even, but I don't think so and we have more reason to believe it is dangerous and not a good thing, and very little reason to believe it is a good thing, whereas fighting against evilness can be a good thing and is prescribed, when in a state of pitched war to fight and kill in the name of justice and right, but tempered with mercy, and do not transgress into injustice and cruelty.
Interesting, I do agree that as believers we should always fight against injustice and to help the oppressed. I never heard of human sacrifices to God except the test of Ibrahim. Although I guess we are technically sacrificing ourselves and our wealth when you do fight in the path of God, but if you do find any ayat of that nature when an enemy is offered as a sacrifice of some sort I would like to see that verse, I havent come across that though.
Peace
Haha I seen a documentary recently showing how many things we can use on our planet as fuel for engines, theres people on youtube that modded their 'carburetor' so they can run it on used cooking oil, and one guy back when GM was running the worlds car industry modded it so that he can get over 100miles per gallon ....GM took his design and patented it so that they can squeeze every dollar . Reminds of me JP Morgan and Nikola Teslas feud for free energy... ( (
Salams
Woaw woaw easy guys im not encouraging alcohol in any way, I know very well the harm it can do .
Like I said I only made this post to show understanding of a phrase (khamr wal misiyr) since I was looking into those ayat and noticed something..thats it.
I agree with you guys if you can dont drink alcohol it CAN ruin your life so best to avoid it. At the same time if you know yourself and drink in moderation then keep it limited and dont come to prayer drunk .
FreedomStand those ayat are not forbidding it. I believe Khamr wal misiyr is a game and its saying theres more wrong than benefit in it, but even if it was talking about Alcohol and gambling separately for sake of argument its saying threes more harm than benefit in them, like saying a knife has good benefits and can also be used for evil , its not forbidding it. The 2nd verse you posted advises you avoid shaitan.''Fa-ijtanabuHU.''
This is not where I intented this topic to go was just trying to show that khamr wal misiyr is together as a pair but anyways for those who want to know what is haram to consume.
16 -115
he has only forbidden you what dies of itself and blood and flesh of swine and that over which any other name than that of allah has been invoked, but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely allah is forgiving, merciful
and more specifically
5 - 3
forbidden to you is that which dies of itself, and blood, and flesh of swine, and that on which any other name than that of allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. this day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear me. this day have i perfected for you your religion and completed my favor on you and chosen for you islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely allah is forgiving, merciful
6 -145
say i do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine-- for that surely is unclean-- or that which is a transgression, other than (the name of) allah having been invoked on it; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely your lord is forgiving, merciful
5-93
On those who believe and do good there is no blame for what they eat, when they are careful (of their duty) and believe and do good deeds, then they are careful (of their duty) and believe, then they are careful (of their duty) and do good (to others), and Allah loves those who do good (to others).
Any ways thats a different topic altogether there are lots of threads on the legality of it like I said in my first post.
Salams
Salam brother, if you have WinZip or anything that can open zip files then you should be fine. Open it in winzip and youll see its about 30 documents just select them all and drag them into a folder on to your desktop. That should work Inshallah.
Peace
Im sure someone else might of posted this link , if not then heres a link to a collection of all the other Mutashabihat(similar or like verses) in the Quran, they are sorted by Juz . Its in arabic but it is very useful to view them in this manner.
https//tmr123.wordpress.com/mutashabihat/
Salams
Thank you brother Huruf I will remember you in my dua inshallah )
Salam alaiqum
I agree washing and necessarily bathing,but if your whole body is dirty then you should bath if a small part is dirty then that should be washed. Wash accordingly to the situation. A person who used the bathroom does not need to bath.. I think thats what you are referring to but in any case I agree I think both our points are clear by this point. Thank you for taking time to try to understand what im saying ,atleast this way I responded so much that I end up adding more detail to my original post and correcting any errors I made which will make it easy for others who are researching these verses or this concept, so thank you. Also like I said in my original post im not here to debate or say anyone is wrong or right im just putting another angle or view on a concept we have, with proofs from the same verse and its similar verse. You believe it means absentmindedness, I believe its telling us to wash ourselves if we do any of those 4 things and to use sand if we cant wash with water, the meaning according to hadith/traditional view is to wash yourself fully after sex and im sure there are more opinions and inshallah we hear and see all of them and find the truth ,right? So im putting this out there for anyone seeking other interpretation rather than the one given in hadith.
May Allah increase me,you and all believers in knowledge,wisdom and guidance and forgive and protect us inshallah.
Peace brother
oh sorry brother I forgot to reply in regards to Junuban meaning distracted,daydreamy state . So lets say it does mean this just for sake of argument. So it does not mean drunkness (forgive me for thinking thats what you meant at first) so thats ruled out since Allah specifically says it in the verse what the drunk person should do. So lets say it means absentmindednes or mental disquiet,distractedness,daydreamy state type of feeling. Why would abri sabeel or a journeyman be made an exception to absentmindedness ? How come they are allowed to be absentminded in salat? What effect does water have on absentmindedness especially since its a fact cold showers or any shower or anything you do will not make you more sober but if you jump in a ice cold bath or ocean it will definently give you a rush wether drunk or sober,awake or sleepy but you will still be just as drunk so Allahs tells them to simply wait till they can understand again. Absentminded person being advised to wash just doesnt seem logical for those 2 points. I think by extension the part that tells you to not come while drunk should already tell you to come to prayer in a sound frame of mind. It doesnt say cold water so id assume warm or cold water should do the trick to take me out of my absentmindedness but only cold water gives you ''the rush'' warm water relaxes you even more. If it said if your junuban use cold water then it would make more sense. When im stressed or my minds stuck on something I can wash my face and nothing will happen except my face will be cleaner.
Peace brother,, p.s
im sorry I didnt add this into my last message, but the little edit button dissapeared so I reposted.
Really, really, you want to make of my words whatever you want no matter what I say, fine. But then say it yourself do not involve me. junubsan is not like drunkness and I have never said that, and I do not know wheter you misunderstand because you never, nuever, but never hsave a state of absentmindedness or mental disquiet or similar things that encroach con concentration, but if you do not you are the first person I hear of to whom that does not happen. Nut still you insist on drunkness...
I still do not see the step whereby you make all those things mentionned after junub as meaning the junub. If it goes all the stretch of mentionning both times junub is used each of those things separately, what was the use in the first lace of using a word that is not used again in the whole of Qur'an to mean those things that are mentioned separately both times? Does not make sense, and there is nothing that indicates that it is an umbrella word for a list of things that come after in a completely separate sentence in both cases.
And by the way tatahhara ghasala are not synonims. Washing may be a way or a means of purifying but it is not the same thing as purifying.
And how does coming out of the toilet refer only to men? Anybody can go to the toilet, but having sexual relationships with women, in the Qur'an in can only mean that you are a man, not a woman, but go to the toiolet can be a man or a woman.
As to washing, yes, if you are not very sharp or alert, usually what people do as a first measure is to wash with cold water, as far as I know. That is the most inmmediate. But to you it seems that it makes more lost, so forget it. Change if to "everybody except you should wash". Water must have something to do with it, since it does not say that if you are junub do tayammum.
Salaam
Brother please re read my posts, I think you are misunderstanding me. I made a mistake my saying drunkenness in my first post and you pointed this out so afterwards I said 'a drunken state' or drunk like , and by that I didnt mean sakara like alcohol drunkness so I made sure to say or distractedness .I never said tahara and taghseel are synonyms I said they are not synonyms. Taghseel is to wash WITH water , Tahara is to purify in any way shape or form. I do think it is an umbrella word , I think its clear and like I said in my first post before I shared anything , that this is my belief and then I explained why I believe so. You are free to believe whatever you wish brother ,my intention is not to change your beliefs but to share my beliefs with explanation. Re-read my posts to understand why I believe it is an umbrella word..because there are many hints rather than giving our own meaning to the word. As for the toilet it is not gender specific , anyone who goes to the bathroom,same goes for those are ill,and those that have sex. Allah doesnt literally mean if you touch a female then you are in a state of Janaba in that case if your daughter touches you ,or teacher pats you on the shoulder now you jananba( a state Allah groups with bathroom goer,ill person and a journey man) it doesnt make sense that it means touching a women and it seems like its a phrase Allah uses as a pg13 way of saying sexual intercourse. If thats what the phrase means then both would be in the state of Janaba ,and they both go aside to commit this task together so I dont see why only men would become in a state of Janaba and women not.
as for your last point, It does say if your junub do tayummum, thats why after mentioning the types of junuban people it says Fa;lam tajudoo maan then do tayummym. Why would they be looking for water to begin with ,since this verse says fa lam tujidoo maan or (if you cant find water) maybe its because it just ordered them to do taghseel and tatheer washing and purifying in the same ayat.
as for your last post, I said clearly that they are 3 parts but I said the message can be split into 2 first part dealing with non junuban people and the rest about Junuban people, so I clearly said I was going to present* it in a way so as to order it so you can see how the message is split,that way youll see its referring to Junuban people. Not a translation a re-ordering.
Tatheer and taghseel are two different things . You can do taghseel or tayummum or many other things to be tahir but you can only use water to do taghseel.
As for ritual purification what do you think washing your face and hands up to the elbows,wiping your head and feet to the ankle before salat is? Is that not a ritual purification. We still have rituals in Islam we just dont add any extras from hadith.
Salams brother
I hate to say my translation so I wont say im making a translation I believe the Quran cant be translated and only meant in Arabic, but I will try to interpret it.
O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying. ( this statement is done)
and neither a state of janabah, until you have washed
'and if you find no water',
then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and your hands . Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving.
I think its clear as day I dont see why you cant relate junbuban with those 4 groups. Why is Allah saying if your these 4 types of people and you cant find water?? Why would they need water....to do wudhu or taghseel with thats why. What does an ill person need water for? to wash, what does a journeyman need water for in this context ,to wash, and same with the one who comes from bathroom or sex and not for any other reason .
My translation does not change any words or add anywords but just tells you to erase everything you know about this verse and replace the 4 types of people with the word janaba, once you do that read this whole verse and all of 56 again with that in place it will make complete sense. Especially when Allah removes Abrir sabeel from the equation after taking the words Ighsalu (Wash) out and replacing it with taharu(purify) .
My interpretation
Here lets look at 56 its a little easier to understand because it does not mention drunkness.
O you who believe! When you stand up for the prayer, then wash your faces and your hands till the elbows and wipe your heads and your feet till the ankles.
But IF you are (in) a state of ceremonial impurity then purify yourselves. (beforehand)
But if you dont find water, then do with clean earth, then wipe your faces and your hands with it. (I took the explanation of Janaba out to make it easier to understand)
Allah (does) not intend to make for you any difficulty but He intends to purify you and to complete His Favor upon you so that you may (be) grateful.
Allah would not just say dont be junuban and leave it for us to guess what it is and then Allah says we do not intend for you any difficulty. Allah does not intend any difficulty he explains clearly how we can do ''wudhu'' before salat even if we dont have water .
So with all that in mind my translation
Here lets look at 56 its a little easier to understand because it does not mention drunkness.
O you who believe! When you stand up for the prayer, then wash your faces and your hands till the elbows and wipe your heads and your feet till the ankles.
But if you set yourself aside then purify* yourselves.(set aside due to sickness, set yourself aside to go on a journey for business or w.e it may be, set yourself aside to use the bathroom and set aside to have sexual relations then purify yourself) Allah uses the word purify instead of taghseel so I include the journey man in this statement.
But if you are Junuban and find no water, then do (with) earth clean, then wipe your faces and your hands with it.
Allah (does) not intend to make for you any difficulty but He intends to purify you and to complete His Favor upon you so that you may (be) grateful.
.
443 Translation
O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say (end of statement)
nor come to prayer when you are set aside------except the journeyman------ until you have washed yourselves; (this verse is for the ill, the ones who come from the bathroom and the ones who have had relations with their women and not the journeyman)
and if you are Junuban (sick, or on a journey*, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women) and you cannot find water,
betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.
Very simple I see it, Do ghusul of salat before every salat but if your defiled then clean yourselfs and if you cant find water use sand.
There are many hints , 1st Allah is not going to say Junuban and not explain to use what that is so he explains directly after mentioning junub what that is.
2- Allah swt says if your junuban wash with water except the journeyman but in another he says if junuban purify without exception, this hints at cleanising and not drunkness or being distracted , otherwise the exception(journeyman) would be able pray drunk and distracted without needing to purify nor wash. That would be like saying Dont come to prayer while drunk or distracted without purifying except for the journeyman. I dont know why some assume its a type of distractedness or a type of drunkness, is it because all mentions it after mentioning sukara in 56? In 443 which I believe came before 56 personally doesnt mention any sukara or drunkness but says to wash before prayer and if Junuban to purify (with no exceptions mentioned this time and only change being the word taghseel to tahara) is there any hint that its a type of distractedness or drunkness? Nor would it make sense scientifically for water to cleanse you of that
3- Allah tells us to do ''wudhu'' before salat, however this does not cleanse you fully , so Allah tells us to wash seperately from ''wudhu'' if were dirty (from those things we set ourselves aside to do) . Allah then names 4 things that we set ourselves aside to do and says and if you for some reason cant find water to use sand and this does not make an exception to the journeyman since he can use sand. My point is its 2 types of wash a ceremonial one and a general one.
4- Why is Abri sabil or the journeyman being an exception after Allah says Taghseel or to wash with water?? makes sense since of those 4 groups he should NOT be expected to have water or it will be difficult for him and Allah intends no difficulties in practicing our deen.. While an ill person,one who uses the bathroom or on who has sex can still wash , a journey man might not so Allah doesnt oblige him to, but with tayummum or cleaning with sand they are all mentioned specifically.
5- What is the point of adding part of the ayat??? Is it to replace ''wudhu'' for muslims if they cant find water?? Why specifically mention a group of people instead of just saying if you cant find water take sand and ........, but instead it says if your ill,on a journey,finished from the bathroom or had sex and you dont find water , to use sand because this verse is further explaining the Junuban and thats why Abrir sabeel is included as an exception (wa la junuban ila abrisabeel) directly after mentioning the Junuban in the first part of the ayat. So what happens if im not one of those 4 people and dont have water? Its clear that those 4 groups of people have on them bodily fluids and thats why Allah seperates these 4 and groups them specifically( َ and generally (Junuban ila abrisabeel) sick man is germy,snotty,puky,bloody etc, travelling man is sweaty,stinky,one from the washroom self explanatory and same goes for sex where you will also have bodily fluids on you and Allah is simply telling us to clean ourselves from these states he calls Janaba (where you set yourself aside from people and understandably so in my opinion).
6- this part MUST be a further explanation of the preious part of the ayat (Janaba part), it would be off topic for Allah to mention a bunch of people and say if they cant find water they should do this instead! its like saying Eat pizza only after washing your hands first,but if you came from the gym,came from fishing or just woke up and you cant find any pickles then eat zucchini instead. You know what I mean why would these people gym,fisherman,sleepy guy need a pickle? Why would ill man,traveller, guy who came from the bathroom and one who came from sex need water? but alhamdillah Allah says before he says that , if your dirty then wash and it all falls into place.
So you can hypothetically split the ayat in 2.
O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say,
nor when you are under an obligation to perform a bath-- unless (you are) travelling on the road-- until you have washed yourselves; and if you are sick, or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth, then wipe your faces and your hands; surely Allah is Pardoning, Forgiving.
or
part 1 -O you who believe! when you rise up to prayer, wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads and your feet to the ankles;
part 2- and if you are junuban, then wash (yourselves) and if you are junuban*** and cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth and wipe your faces and your hands therewith, Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.
***are sick or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy, or you have touched the women.
I hope ive made my position clear.
Thanks again guys and all praise belongs to our creator.
Hassan
Salam brother Huruf
''I can't see thst step you take of making the
equal to junub, as far as I can understand it speaks o different conditions. The junub you wash, but the others,m if you can't wash you do tsayammum, that is not foreseen for junub, unles arbitrarily you decide that junub is another way of saying all of those things, which I can't see the text warrants.''
The junub you wash OR purify (443), thats why IN 443 Allah swt says if ur junuban to purify. What does it say after
in both verses it says fa-lam tajudo maan. Its clear that you need to wash but Allah says to the junuban people if you cant find water to use sand.(sand purifies too).
As for drunkness issue my bad I was not understanding what you meant , so junuban is a state like drunkness? In either case we know scientifically NOTHING can remove drunkness except time, cold shower will increase your blood pressure so you feel less sleepy but your just as much drunk. Same goes for mindwandering and distractedness, I still daydream after showering maybe even more since I know for sure I daydream while showering. Is there any proof that water or washing yourself can remove a drunken like state or distractedness I have never heard anything like that before. If you have a link I would be interested in that. As far as I know Allah says to the one whos drunk while in prayer to not come to prayer until he knows what hes saying because time will heal his mind but for the state that you say parallels drunkenness how will time or water fix it? The part of the Ayat speaking of the one drunk during salat already teaches us to come to salat in a clear state of mind ATLEAST to the point where you can understand what you are saying. Would I need to to take a bath before wudhu to remove distractedness or would just clearing my mind be sufficient.
All translators interpret Junuban not just being in a state of major washing but its literally attached in meaning that its through sexual intercourse only that one achieves this state. I agree with you brother I dont agree with that interpretation but I think its part of junuban but not exclusive to it.
Brother in the same phrase where Allah says touched your women he also mentions those that come back from the washroom and dont have water to use sand..but he says'''or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself '' this is also referring to a man but that does not mean women should no clean after using the washroom either. Quran is meant for pondering, If a man has sex and needs to clean, the women would automatically need to as well,if a man has to clean after using the washroom,the women aswell should too. ex. Allah says he answers to call of the calleer when he calls on him ( al da-ee idha da-ani) this is masculine , does that mean Allah only answers male believers...no . Its clear that in the same part of the ayat Allah mentions (him who comes from the toilet) so you should not think it only applies to men that if they cant find water to do tayummum, what about women who relieve themseles is Allah going to leave them without a way to purify without water. The Qur'an is quite able to say the appropriate words to convey any meaning.
thank you brother huruf )
All translations I have read sound awfully lame.
Salaam
Salam brother I was not translating I was interpreting , I will post a translation soon,thank you
The worb Junuban im no translating as those 4 things, Im saying its a group of people. Just like Mala'ika is a group of people and not a race thats why iblees was among them or Muhsinat is a group of protected women and not just married women likewise Junuban is a group of people that are in a state that requires them to excuse themselves . Ill explain more inshallah.
thank you my brother
Salam Hassan
It is good to know that you are trying to understand Al-Quran purely from the text and without any pre-conceived concepts. I noted following two in your translation for 56
You have translated Iza in 56 as "if" whereas it means when
You have not translated FA in which means "then" and denotes a time lapse
Hope you can help me understand your translation.
Thank you brother for pointing that out and helping me out, I was trying to explain an idea and make it easier, you are right though and as I said in my first point I was also expecting errors but these are my first posts I should double check after I post ) . So to everyone reading, I will clarify that in 56 Allah does not say IF you stand up for prayers , it is When you stand up for prayer. As for the (Fa agsiloo) you are right I should make it clear there is a timelapse after between being dirty and cleaning but I think thats clear no matter what type of dirty there will need to be a timelapse ,and I wrote other 'fa' as when so my intention was not to translate but to simplify a large verse to 3 -4 bullet points im sorry If I confused you , Is there a way to edit after posting an ad a day later? If not Id like to clarify that the washing is done after being in a Junuban state,ex. after sex and not during it. May Allah guide us all. I will post my translation of this verse I think writing too much is actually confusing everyone , Inshallah I should have my translation of it up with proper grammer .
Thank you brother Novice )
Yes, translated as and interpreted as meaning that within all sects .
The verse basically tells us no matter what to do ghusul and misah before salat , washing and wiping of hand,face,head and feet.
^^^^^ this is the whole message of the ayat. The rest of it is only applying conditions that this one message(wa in kintum janubun and Fa lam tajidu maan) of cleaning. Allah says if your in a state of Janaba to wash ( taghtisulu) this is with water. In the next one lets just hypothetically replace those 4 types of people and put the word Janubun then it would read if your Junubun and lam tajidu maan to do tayummum. Each verse is related to the other and by Allah swt not putting the word janubun and instead clearly saying the states and then saying (fa lam tajidu maan) and cant find water then do tayummum. JNB root if you check in corpus.Quran.com you will see every usage of the word means someone who is at a distance,to the side which all those 4 types of people are(in the 1st post) and taghseel or washing with water is not the only way to purify,sand does so to. In 56 Allah swt shows us 2 ways of purification and right after Allah teaches us tayummum he says (yurida latayahhurukum) he intends to purify us . Purification and Taghseel are different things but related, Taghseel is to literally clean with water, tahara or purification is a general thing and that is to purify wether physically, mentally,with water,with sand, by taking a dirty shirt off,by washing your clothes etc, anything that purifies. Thats why 1 ayat Allah swt says if your Junuban to wash with water but makes an exception for one on a journey **, but in the other verse he tells the one whos junuban to purify not taghseel or washing with water and he doesnt mention the journeyman,wayfarer in this verse as an exception because a Junuban person can still purify without water so hes no longer an exception in that verse since the words used are (fa-ittaharu) instead of (hatta-taghtasiloo). The journey man also happens to be one of those 4 categories Allah mentions of junuban. He is the only 1 of the 4 that you can expect to always have water so Allah made them an exception in the verse that tells the junuban person to wash because he can tayummum,change his clothes etc but he cant always be able to wash.
As for Januban meaning drunkness.
It would not make sense. Do not come to prayer while you are drunk until you know what you are saying and not in a drunken state until you wash yourselves? Also the other verse 56 does not mention drunkness , and tells the people in janaba to purify themselves. Why would a journeyman or wayfarer be excluded from being in a drunken state until washing? he would still be drunk if he didnt wash with water the drunkness away? Lastly the sexual relations is not necessarily singling men out because the same verse says when a man come from the bathroom ,so does that mean women who come from the washroom dont need to clean?
Thank you
wa salam brother huruf
In mainstream sectarian Islam the word is literally translated as a state of impurity due to sexual intercourse or seminal discharge. What have you always interpreted Janaba as?
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junub
In the same verse it explains what junuba or state of janaba is , you can replace illness,journey,restroom,relations with women with the word janaba in those verses to understand what I mean
Wa salam
Salams brothers and sisters
For about a week now Ive been scanning through the Quran and Bible trying to figure out whether or not Halal food has been misunderstood. Before then I have only ate halal meat from halal meat shops, it's only when I came across a thread where someone was asking good questions which only made me question if Halal food is legit , a scam or a misunderstanding. Anyways this is what Ive gathered. I'm not telling you to make ANY decisions with your life,religion or diet. I'm ONLY passing on my research and conclusions so if there are others researching this then maybe they may gain some benefit from it or reject it and that's completely up to you so save your insults or judgments . Thank you
******* I apologize for the length but context is extremely important .
My conclusion is any verse that talks about mentioning Gods name over the An'am is talking about sacrificial offerings at the Ka'ba . People of all religions including mushriks/polytheists were sacrificing at the Ka'aba . The Ahlul Kitab (before our Qiblah) were sacrificing offerings day and night for atonement's,offerings and blessings , this was done at the old Qiblah in Jerusalem and since that Qiblah was taken away from them ,they stopped offering sacrifices because they believe it can only be offered at a Qiblah so they await a Messiah who will restore them their Qiblah . There is a lot of differences within themselves and for any that turned to the new Qiblah they would offer sacrifices there and it would be lawful, those of them who did not accept the new Qiblah still await a Messiah. I dont see anywhere anything suggesting we slaughter meat in any way as long as it falls within the guideline of 53. So for example if I was at the Ka'ba and next to me 2 offerings were taken place, 1 of them by a Jewish man offering it to Allah and the other by a Mushrik dedicating it to other than Allah I would be able to eat from the Jewish mans offering but the Mushriks offering would be forbidden.
Say I do not find in that which has been revealed to me anything forbidden for an eater to eat of except that it be what has died of itself, or blood poured forth, or flesh of swine-- for that surely is unclean-- or that which is a transgression, other than (the name of) Allah having been invoked on it; but whoever is driven to necessity, not desiring nor exceeding the limit, then surely your Lord is Forgiving, Merciful. 6145 An'am
Surah Hajj
And proclaim to the people the Hajj ; they will come to you on foot and on every lean camel; they will come from every distant pass -2227 surah hajj
That they may witness benefits for themselves and mention the name of Allah on known days(during Hajj days) over what He has provided for them of sacrificial animals (an'am) . So eat of them and feed the miserable and poor.2228
Then let them end their untidiness and fulfill their vows and perform Tawaf around the ancient House."2229
That , and whoever honors the sacred ordinances of Allah - it is best for him in the sight of his Lord. And permitted to you are the grazing livestock/al an'am (for sacrifice), except what is recited to you. So avoid the uncleanliness of idols and avoid false statement, 2230
Inclining to Allah , not associating with Him. And he who associates with Allah - it is as though he had fallen from the sky and was snatched by the birds or the wind carried him down into a remote place.2231
That . And whoever honors the symbols of Allah - indeed, it is from the piety of hearts.2232
For you the animals marked for sacrifice are benefits for a specified term; then their place of sacrifice is at the ancient House.2233
And for all religion(ummatin) We have appointed a rite that they may mention the name of Allah over what He has provided for them of sacrificial animals(bahimatil an'am). For your god is one God, so to Him submit. And, , give good tidings to the humble 2234
And the Budna* We have appointed for you as among the symbols of Allah ; for you in it is good. So mention the name of Allah upon it in rows * and when they are on their sides, then eat from it and feed the needy and the beggar. Thus have We subjected them to you that you may be grateful.2235
Surah Maidah* (again these verses seem to be talking about ritual sacrifice , in this case for Hajj pilgrimage or Umrah as well)
O you who have believed, fulfill contracts. Lawful for you are the animals of the sacrifical livestock(an'am) except for that which is recited to you - hunting not being permitted while you are in the state of ihram. Indeed, Allah ordains what He intends.51
O you who have believed, do not violate the rites of Allah or the sacred month or the sacrificial animal offerings and garlanding/marking or those coming to the Sacred House seeking bounty from their Lord and approval. But when you come out of ihram, then hunt. And do not let the hatred of a people for having obstructed you from al-Masjid al-haram lead you to transgress. And cooperate in righteousness and piety, but do not cooperate in sin and aggression. And fear Allah ; indeed, Allah is severe in penalty. 52
Forbidden to you (for food) are dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it yourself; that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.53
They ask you, , what has been made lawful for them. Say, "Lawful for you are good foods and that what you have trained of dogs which you teach from what Allah has taught you. So eat of what they catch for you, and mention the name of Allah on it, and fear Allah." Indeed, Allah is swift in account. 54
Maidah 55
Another reason I dont believe in ''halal'' meat
This day good foods have been made lawful, and the food of those who were given the Scripture is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. And fortified women from among the believers and fortified women from among those who were given the Scripture before you, when you have given them their due compensation, desiring chastity, not being scandalous or taking lovers. And whoever denies the faith - his work has become worthless, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers.55
The Ahlul Kitab dont have any verse that tells them to state Gods name at slaughter for food, but what do they have? ritual sacrifice offerings.
If Allahs name needs to be mentioned at slaughter then we would not be able to eat thier food. Keep in mind the Ahl ul kitab diet also forbids what we forbid , they have the same diet as us and that includes avoiding blood,strangled things,tainted meat via shirk and pig.
But should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood Acts 1520
And every person who eats what dies of itself or what is torn by beasts, whether he is a native or a sojourner, shall wash his clothes and bathe himself in water and be unclean until the evening; then he shall be clean. Leviticus 1715
And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it unclean unto you ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.Deuteronomy 148 -
Surah Al Maeda 1-5 are revealed while the Muslims were in the state of Ihram and I believe the whole Surah was revealed while they were in a state of Ihram because even in the verses after verse 93 still mentioning thier state of Ihram.*****
Surah Maeda 93-97
There is not upon those who believe and do righteousness blame concerning what they have eaten if they fear Allah and believe and do righteous deeds, and then fear Allah and believe, and then fear Allah and do good; and Allah loves the doers of good. 593
O you who have believed, Allah will surely test you through something of the game that your hands and spears reach, that Allah may make evident those who fear Him unseen. And whoever transgresses after that ? for him is a painful punishment. 594
O you who have believed, do not kill game while you are in the state of i?ram. And whoever of you kills it intentionally ? the penalty is an equivalent from sacrificial animals to what he killed, as judged by two just men among you as an offering delivered to the Ka?bah, or an expiation the feeding of needy people or the equivalent of that in fasting, that he may taste the consequence of his deed. Allah has pardoned what is past; but whoever returns , then Allah will take retribution from him. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Owner of Retribution. 595
Lawful to you is game from the sea and its food as provision for you and the travelers, but forbidden to you is game from the land as long as you are in the state of i?ram. And fear Allah to whom you will be gathered. 596
Also in the same surah (Maidah) we are told of the sacrifice offerings made by the first family as a sin offering, just to show how long ago monotheists have been doing this, and it continues up to Abrahams time where he was even told to sacrifice his son but only as a test and Allah made it forbidden to sacrifice a person to him.I mention this because its relevant later on.
And recite to them the story of Adam's two sons, in truth, when they both offered a sacrifice , and it was accepted from one of them but was not accepted from the other. Said , "I will surely kill you." Said , "Indeed, Allah only accepts from the righteous .
527
If you should raise your hand against me to kill me ? I shall not raise my hand against you to kill you. Indeed, I fear Allah, Lord of the worlds. 528
Indeed I want you to obtain my sin and your sin so you will be among the companions of the Fire. And that is the recompense of wrongdoers." 529
Surah al An'am
Also as youll see later ,the mushriks were being told to offer thier own sons and daughters as sacrifices to thier idols ,probably by Jinn since the Quran says that he was ascribed partners with Jinn.
But they have attributed to Allah partners - the jinn, while He has created them - and have fabricated for Him sons and daughters. Exalted is He and high above what they describe .6100 Surah al An'am
In Surah Al'Anam from the very beginning relates to us the story of a group of Mushriks who ascribe to Allah partners and who commited shirk and created lies against Allah forbidding some things and making up lies, read this whole surah a couple times to let the context sit in .
Unfortunently for this post I cant post the whole surah because its one of the longest but ill post verses to show that there is a theme throughout the surah from the beginning onwards until Allah makes it clear what actually happened in 137-138. I still recommend you read it from beginning to end for full context. The verses im choosing to post here are part of the dialogue with these mushrikeen just to give you a context. Im posting them to show this surah has a continuous theme directed at a group of people who were ascribing partners from the very beginning of the surah and onwards.
61- praise is to Allah , who created the heavens and the earth and made the darkness and the light. Then those who disbelieve equate with their Lord.
from the very first virst we get a theme, there were people committing an act of shirk
all the ayat after this verse talks about these mushrikeen and shows you some of their arguments during their dispute with the Messenger of God.
Say, "Is it other than Allah I should take as a protector, Creator of the heavens and the earth, while it is He who feeds and is not fed?" Say, , "Indeed, I have been commanded to be the first who submit and , 'Do not ever be of the polytheists.' " 614
Say, "What thing is greatest in testimony?" Say, " Allah is witness between me and you. And this Qur'an was revealed to me that I may warn you thereby and whomever it reaches. Do you testify that with Allah there are other deities?" Say, "I will not testify ." Say, "Indeed, He is but one God, and indeed, I am free of what you associate ." 619
Those to whom We have given the Scripture recognize it as they recognize their sons. Those who will lose themselves do not believe.620
And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie or denies His verses? Indeed, the wrongdoers will not succeed** 621
And , the Day We will gather them all together; then We will say to those who associated others with Allah , "Where are your 'partners' that you used to claim ?"622
The ayats even after 622 continue still with the same subject ,audience and dialogue/dispute.
No, it is Him you would invoke, and He would remove that for which you invoked Him if He willed, and you would forget what you associated .641
Say, "Indeed, I have been forbidden to worship those you invoke besides Allah ." Say, "I will not follow your desires, for I would then have gone astray, and I would not be of the guided."656
And when you see those who engage in discourse concerning Our verses, then turn away from them until they enter into another conversion. And if Satan should cause you to forget, then do not remain after the reminder with the wrongdoing people.668
And leave those who take their religion as amusement and diversion and whom the worldly life has deluded. But remind with the Qur'an, lest a soul be given up to destruction for what it earned; it will have other than Allah no protector and no intercessor. And if it should offer every compensation, it would not be taken from it. Those are the ones who are given to destruction for what they have earned. For them will be a drink of scalding water and a painful punishment because they used to disbelieve.670
Say, "Shall we invoke instead of Allah that which neither benefits us nor harms us and be turned back on our heels after Allah has guided us? like one whom the devils enticed upon the earth confused, he has companions inviting him to guidance, , 'Come to us.' " Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the guidance; and we have been commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds.671
And then it relates the story of Abraham when he avoided shirk and called on his father to also avoid ascribing partners to God. 674 - 680
And how should I fear what you associate while you do not fear that you have associated with Allah that for which He has not sent down to you any authority? So which of the two parties has more right to security, if you should know?681
They who believe and do not mix their belief with injustice - those will have security, and they are guided.682
That is the guidance of Allah by which He guides whomever He wills of His servants. But if they had associated others with Allah , then worthless for them would be whatever they were doing.688
The Surah starts to get more direct towards these mushrikeen and more context is given after this point
And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allah or says, "It has been inspired to me," while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, "I will reveal like what Allah revealed." And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands, , "Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of humiliation for what you used to say against Allah other than the truth and you were, toward His verses, being arrogant." 693
But they have attributed to Allah partners - the jinn, while He has created them - and have fabricated for Him sons and daughters without knowledge. Exalted is He and high above what they describe.6100
Follow, , what has been revealed to you from your Lord - there is no deity except Him - and turn away from those who associate others with Allah .6101
But if Allah had willed, they would not have associated. And We have not appointed you over them as a guardian, nor are you a manager over them.6107
And do not insult those they invoke other than Allah , lest they insult Allah in enmity without knowledge. Thus We have made pleasing to every community their deeds. Then to their Lord is their return, and He will inform them about what they used to do.6108
And thus We have made for every prophet an enemy - devils from mankind and jinn, inspiring to one another decorative speech in delusion. But if your Lord had willed, they would not have done it, so leave them and that which they invent. 6112
And so the hearts of those who disbelieve in the Hereafter will incline toward it and that they will be satisfied with it and that they will commit that which they are committing. 6113
, "Then is it other than Allah I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book explained in detail?" And those to whom We gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth, so never be among the doubters.6114
And if you obey most of those upon the earth, they will mislead you from the way of Allah . They follow not except assumption, and they are not but falsifying.6116
So eat of that upon which the name of Allah has been mentioned, if you are believers in His verses.**** From the other surah we can see mentioning Allahs name over animals is for sacrificial offerings. I will explain these 3 ayats .
And why should you not eat of that upon which the name of Allah has been mentioned while He has explained in detail to you what He has forbidden you, excepting that to which you are compelled. And indeed do many lead astray through their inclinations without knowledge. Indeed, your Lord - He is most knowing of the transgressors. 6118
And do not eat of that upon which the name of Allah has not been mentioned, for indeed, it is grave disobedience. And indeed do the devils inspire their allies to dispute with you. And if you were to obey them, indeed, you would be also be associators/mushrikeen 6119
And is one who was dead and We gave him life and made for him light by which to walk among the people like one who is in darkness, never to emerge therefrom? Thus it has been made pleasing to the disbelievers that which they were doing.6122
And thus We have placed within every city the greatest of its criminals to conspire therein. But they conspire not except against themselves, and they perceive not.6123
6136 onwards Allah relates to us what they did and this adds detailed context to the whole surah, it shows us they were making offerings to Allah and to their Idols and shows us the lies that they were inventing and what Allah was addressing the Muslims about in 118-121
And the polytheists assign to Allah from that which He created of crops and livestock a share and say, "This is for Allah ," by their claim, " and this is for our partners ." But what is for their "partners" does not reach Allah , while what is for Allah - this reaches their "partners." Evil is that which they rule. 6136
This verse is clearly talking about offerings of both crops and An'am.
And likewise, to many of the polytheists their partners have made pleasing the killing of their children in order to bring about their destruction and to cover them with confusion in their religion. And if Allah had willed, they would not have done so. So leave them and that which they invent. 6137
This ayat shows thier idols (The jinn as is mentoned earlier) were encouraging them to also sacrifice offer thier own children as well.
And they say, "These animals and crops are forbidden; no one may eat from them except whom we will," by their claim. And there are those whose backs are forbidden and those upon which the name of Allah is not mentioned - an invention of untruth about Him. He will punish them for what they were inventing. 6138
Here we are told the lies that they were inventing in detail. They made sacrficial offerings at Ka'aba of both crops and cattle, then they said this portion of it only those can eat it whom we will , and these ones here no one can eat them they are haram and these ones here they didnt offer to Allah . It was a sacrifice but not in Allahs name , it appears that it seemed they were offering it with Allahs name over it but instead they either 1)didnt sacrifice it for Allah 2)Sacrificed it to thier Idols 3) Both . Thier Idols told them these type An'am are haram in contradiction to Allahs words and their idols taught them to not mention Gods name over a certain animal as well but sacrifices to Allah must be offered in Allahs name . So they commiting all types of shirk and Allah told the muslims to not eat anything that didnt have Allahs name mentioned on it/anything sacrificed without his name on it or sacrificed to others.
And they say, "What is in the bellies of these animals is exclusively for our males and forbidden to our females. But if it is dead, then all of them have shares therein." He will punish them for their description. Indeed, He is Wise and Knowing. 6139
Another fabrication the they followed.
Those will have lost who killed their children in foolishness without knowledge and prohibited what Allah had provided for them, inventing untruth about Allah . They have gone astray and were not guided. 6140
And of the livestock are carriers and those small. Eat of what Allah has provided for you and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.6142
eight mates - of the sheep, two and of the goats, two. Say, "Is it the two males He has forbidden or the two females or that which the wombs of the two females contain? Inform me with knowledge, if you should be truthful." 6143
Here Allah tells us what these same group of polythiests owned of livestock they had a male and famle Sheep,Goat,Camels and cows, so eight animals all together and the females being pregnant.
And of the camels, two and of the cattle, two. Say, "Is it the two males He has forbidden or the two females or that which the wombs of the two females contain? Or were you witnesses when Allah charged you with this? Then who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allah to mislead the people by other than knowledge? Indeed, Allah does not guide the wrongdoing people." 6144
Say, "I do not find within that which was revealed to me forbidden to one who would eat it unless it be a dead animal or blood spilled out or the flesh of swine - for indeed, it is impure - or it be disobedience, dedicated to other than Allah . But whoever is forced , neither desiring nor transgressing , then indeed, your Lord is Forgiving and Merciful."6145
This ayat alone is strong enough to show there is no ritual slaughter we are supposed to commit for regular consumption. It's reffering to any meat dedicated/offered/sacrificed to an Idol or ANYTHING other than Allah. Luckily there is not as much animal sacrificing going on today to other than Allah as there was back then.
And to those who are Jews We prohibited every animal of uncloven hoof; and of the cattle and the sheep We prohibited to them their fat, except what adheres to their backs or the entrails or what is joined with bone. that We repaid them for their injustice. And indeed, We are truthful.6 146
Although we have the same diet as the Ahlul Kitab the Children of Israel were prohibited many things but only as a punishment for ungratefulness they commited. You can look into the Torah for the story behind the prohibitions.
Those who associated with Allah will say, "If Allah had willed, we would not have associated and neither would our fathers, nor would we have prohibited anything." Likewise did those before deny until they tasted Our punishment. Say, "Do you have any knowledge that you can produce for us? You follow not except assumption, and you are not but falsifying."6148
Say, , "Bring forward your witnesses who will testify that Allah has prohibited this." And if they testify, do not testify with them. And do not follow the desires of those who deny Our verses and those who do not believe in the Hereafter, while they equate with their Lord. 6150
6118-121 are in context of not only the offerings made by these mushrikeen but also the lies they made and Allah was telling the muslims to not fall for thier lies. They were avoiding that which was sacrificed to Allah because the mushriks said it was haram and Allah told them to avoid the meat which the mushriks claimed did not need to be sacrificed in Gods name so Allah told them to avoid that or else they would become mushrikeen.
Say, "Indeed, my prayer, my rites of sacrifice, my living and my dying are for Allah , Lord of the worlds. 6162
This is at the end of the Surah ..
No where else do we see any mention of any ritual of slaughter for consumption not only in Quran but all previous scripture. However all previous scripture from Allah and the Quran all have ritual sacrifice where Allahs name is mentioned over it. I find this to be clear
And for all religion(ummatin) We have appointed a rite that they may mention the name of Allah over what He has provided for them of sacrificial animals(bahimatil an'am). For your god is one God, so to Him submit. And, , give good tidings to the humble 2234
Bahimat means sacrifice , use Corpus Quran and see for yourself in the word by word section and check its other uses in the Quran.
Lastly these are all references to An'am, so wouldent that mean under current halal meat understanding , that all non An'am dont get Allahs name mentioned at the time of slaughter? So I wouldent need to mention his name on other animals,on fish and birds (that includes chicken and turkey) ,lizards/snakes, and evertything else. I never understood that , fishes dont get the name of Allah mentioned on them nor are they killed with the knife keeping in mind some fishes are really intelligent and some are gigantic while some birds do get his name mentioned.
Heres just a few passeges from the bible about sacrifices (theres more).
intersting to how the word Hashem is used (literally means ''the name'' )
"You may not worship Hashem your God in such a manner. This you may do only on the site that Hashem your God will choose from among all your tribes to place His Name there. You must seek His Presence, and you must go there. You will bring there your elevated offerings, your eaten sacrifices, your tithes, your hand-delivered elevated gifts, your general and specific pledges, the first born of your cattle and flocks...." (Deut. 124-6).
"You will not do then what we do here now, where each person does as he sees fit. For you have not yet come to the resting place and hereditary land that Hashem your God giving you. When you cross the Jordan and you settle the land that Hashem your God is allotting you, and Hashem has granted you safety from all your enemies around you, and you are living securely, there will be a place that Hashem will choose to rest His Name there. It is to there you must bring all that I command you, your burnt elevated offerings, your eaten sacrirfices, your tithes, your elevated gifts, and all your choice pledges that you might pledge to Hashem" (Deut 128-11).
"Watch yourself! Lest you bring your burnt elevated offerings in any place you see fit. Only in the place that Hashem will choose, somewhere from among your tribes, there shall your bring your burnt elevated offerings, and there you must do all that I command you concerning this." (Deut 1213-14)
However, as Muslims we are still to be grateful and thank God for our food just like the Jews and Christians have still been doing .Even though I dont believe and cant find any evidence of a ''halal meat slaughter method'', we are still to thank God for anything we eat including water. Just like how Christians give thanks for every meal we should likewise do that, and alhamdillah many Muslims do say thanks for what they eat.
Surah 16 (an-Nahl) 16114
Sahih International Then eat of what Allah has provided for you lawful and good. And be thankful for the favor of Allah , if it is Him that you worship.
Sorry this post is gigantic and thank you for taking the time to see my view and inshallah it may help in someones research regardless of the conclusion you come to.
Wa Salam Alaiqum all
Salam all
I was going over the alcohol topic because I always believed it to be haram and now im convinced its not haram atleast in moderation because drunkness itself can lead to sin I came to this conclusion for many reasons found in the Holy Kitab and in previous scripture. I believe the only precautions to take according to scriptures is moderation and to avoid prayer while drunk (also a Jewish belief). In the previous scriptures drunkards are looked down upon very much and are mentioned alongside adulterers ,gluttons etc... So I guess that can be the third precaution i.e.. to not get hooked.
I didnt want to talk about alcohol because alhamdillah most people in this forum seem to already know its legality so im not here to disagree or change your belief about alcohol. I just wanted to share my belief on what Khamr wal Miseyr is for anyone studying Quran.
Khamr wal Miseyr is a game/pastime.. they are always mentioned together in the same order and when plugged in to each verse the concept makes sense. Its a game that is still played in the arab world. My mom is Saudi Arabian and Father is Kuridish and in both places my grandparents mention stories of when they were young , it was common for older men to sit at night around little wooden tables and drink alcohol and gamble. My grandpas ID card says Ottomon empire on it ahaha anywho this is what they would do so it just hit me last night maybe the arabs were asking about the game and not necessarily two seperate substances , but instead 2 substances that make one game.
In english this would be like how in Game of Thrones type movies where they live in the middle ages , how they use terms like ''drink and song'' or ''song and dance'' to refer to a party where they drink sing and dance.
''The Shaitan only desires to cause enmity and hatred to spring in your midst by means of intoxicants and game of chance, and to keep you off from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. Will you then desist?''
Anyone who gambles and drinks will know its a bad combination, when someone swipes you for your cash you feel resentment especially if they are celebrating and laughing in your face , now combine alcohol to the mix .....
Just an idea/thought hope it helps someone.
P.s. Anyone ever hear of a physical Quran that has 2-3 translators in the same book?? I have someone interested in Islam but I dont want to give her a single translator ,atleast with multiple translators its easier to understand. Otherwise Ill just send her a online link unless any of you come across such a thing??
Thank you
and
Salams all