I was hoping that someone would answer my question here. To a Quran aloner, what are the "circumstances" requiring a bath in this verse? I have not found the answer in the Quran yet, so I follow tradition, but would like to know where the answer to this particular question is in the Quran. Under what circumstances do Quran aloners consider it necessary to take a bath before praying?

As of right now I follow the mainstream rules of what "obligation to take a bath" means, aka after sexual intercourse etc.
But what do Quran-aloners follow? What does Allah mean by "an obligation to take a bath" according to the Quran. I'd like to see some answers based on the Quran if possible, thanks guys. I looked and looked and looked, and couldn't find it anywhere.

DrAfzal, SIki,

While I know that everyone can interpret, according to their own logic and rationale what "an obligation to take a bath" means, and I also know what tradition dictates to us about this situation, I was just wondering if the Quran itself mentions when exactly you are under obligation. How do Quran aloners follow this ayat? Surely it can't be left upto everyone's individual interpretation, which can be different.

thanks for the links simple - however in the first two links I saw the meanings of "ghusl" and in the third, I'm not sure what you were trying to indicate which is relevant to the discussion here. Please elaborate, thanks.

thanks for the reply Siki. Hmmm, I'm just wondering trying to separate what the Quran is literally saying from what the scholars interpret it as. Meaning I know that this verse typically refers to taking a bath after sexual intercourse etc. but I'm wondering if the Quran actually says that, or if thats how hadith and scholars have interpreted it as? That's really my question here.

Thanks Siki, though could youplease inform me of the source of this meaning? Is it that hadith/scholarly opinions, or is that what it means in the arabic language?

Salaam,

Do you think I really care that my credibility in your eyes is ?not exactly that high?, my only concern is my standing in the eyes of our Lord.

Now, for the last time, I will explain for the benefit of all following this thread.

Hindu religion is based on the caste system, Varna and jati and Brahmans, believed to have Caucasian origin,(Swan) are considered the highest caste and Dalits, sometimes called Untouchables, who are of black colour (crows) like Bedouins, considered commoners. Eating pearls, as opposed to eating grain, refers to indulgence.

I?ll tell you one more prophecy Every other house having naked girls dancing in them... and the irony is that Bollywood movies, played in every other house, have fulfilled this particular prophecy.

It could be that Raam was one of the unnamed prophets, as some of his teaching is similar to the messages of other prophets. Others are completely distorted. So should you start following Raam?s teachings when you have the Qur?an?

peace

For the last time, for the benefit of all following this thread, provide some reference from the Gita (reference is not equal to simply saying "Gita", you mite wanna learn how to provide a reference while you're at it) - chapter#'s, page #'s something, so we can check it out ourselves, and also compare the prophecies in the Gita to the prophecies in the hadith, since you claimed that maybe Bukhari cheated. And also if you do provide a reference at least we can be sure you're not making this up. And some basis for saying what you just said about the "black" and the "pearls" or so we know you're not making that up also. And if you're not going to provide a reference then I request you to stop wasting my time and the time of everyone on this thread. As I said I preferred it when you were "obliging" me by not giving me "answers" like the "gita has the same prophecies too" and then making another 10 posts trying to justify that in some twisted way. Let's see if you have the decency to not waste any more of my time.

Salaam,
It appears that you did try to search in geeta and for that effort I would oblige you with a reply. As you know I am not bothered with any signs outside the Quran so I will not search for you, but I will try and translate similar prophesy as closely as possible, from HINDI to Englishfor and you can use these clues to search what Geeta says about this era
According to Geeta parables
A- Aisa jug aye ga Huns kahyga gewn ka dana kowa moti kayga...an era would come when the crow will eat pearls (means those you call Bedouins would have immense wealth and have a lavish lifestyle/lofty towers) and the Swan will survive on ordinary.
B- For every little thing the son would frown at the father (Baat baat per beta baap ko annakh dekayga) Similar to the slave girl giving birth to her master.

As you can see that Raams prophesied this era does that mean we start believing in Geeta too?

peace
P.S There are times when I get so annoyed with some of the posts on free-mind,s but today I keep laughing. It feels like some sort of comedy exchange on free minds.

ummmmm A crow = a bedouin ? pearls =competing with lofty towers ? What kind of logic is that ? Even IF this is in the Gita, (since you didn't quote a reference and your credibility in my eyes is not exactly that high, I don't really know if you're making this up or if it's really there) but even if it is there how the heck is a CROW = a bedouin or a shepherd ? and how is pearls = competing for building big buildings ?

I'd appreciate it if you could quit making things up. Still no references. I think I liked it better when you were obliging me by not giving me any "answers"

Salam,

WOW. (in case this is unclear the exasperated "WOW" is in regards to your apparent misunderstanding of much of what is written)

No, it means that I won't do your research for you. Especially when you've been told repeatedly where to read.

Salam,
Arnab

Yes I went and looked repeatedly where you and Farida "referenced" i.e. google and the geeta and the "what the christian missionaries" say. And I did NOT find the hadith prophecy I was discussing here. Farida and you apparently claim that the prophecies in the hadith are already in the christian texts and the gita, I am telling you that they are not! I'm sure there's some commonalities here and there between the hadith and the christian texts but the vast majority are different. For e.g. the one about bedouins competing to build tall buildings is not in them, or at least I did NOT find them so I had asked if you could please kindly direct me to them? But instead of doing that here you are telling me to "go search the gita" (YOU KNOW HOW EXTENSIVE THE GITA IS ????)

The truth is both of you are MAKING UP STUFF and thats WHY you can't provide a reference. If you had a reference you'd have provided it already. If this prophecy of bedouins competing to build tall buildings is in the gita or the christian texts as you claim they are, you would have shown it to me already. But you can't because you don't have a reference for something you made up. Needless to say your posts aren't trustworthy. If you wanna prove otherwise, just paste the reference from the gita or christian missionaries about the prophecy of bedouins competing to build tall building and I will happily stand corrected. Otherwise it's safe for me to conclude that you're just like the hadith believers who propogate heresay with no basis

The tokens/signs/indications/protents, have already come? What were they though?

The verse I quoted was in response to your original post that signs of judgement day are rubbish, that there's no such thing as a sign. Though you did confuse me by first posting that you believe that (quote) "There is no such thing as a sign for Judgement Day" and then later posting the signs which you believe have already happened (quote) "I believe in the signs that have happened, namely"
We can discuss maybe in another thread what the signs actually are - but the point is, to me the Quran indicates very clearly that there are SIGNS of the hour coming. For e.g. Gog and Magog will be one of the signs, since they are going to appear when the Hour is near (Surah Kahf).

Peace Soof,

The verse is a reply to dbrowser27's original question. All these minor signs / major signs rubbish cannot be taken seriously. There is no such thing as a sign for Judgement Day.

Do they then wait for aught but the hour that it should come to them all of a sudden? Now indeed the tokens of it have (already) come, but how shall they have their reminder when it comes on them?

Peace "dbrowser",

JK- We believe the Quran to be reliable because it is consistent with science in the first place. If the Quran contradicted modern science we would not have accepted it as true. On what basis would we accept the Quran as true if it had contradicted modern science? Regarding the theory of evolution that man evolved from apes did you know that Ibn-e-Kahldoun, AN ISLAMIC SCHOLAR, 500 years before Darwin came up with this theory. Here i quote from his book al-muqqadimmah(pg 74-75)
"This world with all the created things in it has a certain order and solid construction. It shows nexuses between causes and things caused, combinations of some parts of creation with others, and transformations of some existent things into others, in a pattern that is both remarkable and endless."

"One should then take a look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals. The last stage of minerals is connected with the first stage of plants, such as herbs and seedless plants. The last stage of plants, such as palms and vines, is connected with the first stage of animals, such as snails and shellfish which have only the power of touch. The word 'connection' with regard to these created things means that the last stage of each group is fully prepared to become the first stage of the newest group."

"The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of monkeys, in which both sagacity and preception are found, but which has not reached the stage of actual reflection and thinking. At this point we come to the first stage of man. This is as far as our (physical) observation extends."

You need to educate yourself more. The Quran fully supports evolution as it states that mankind was cerated in stages and started off from clay and then in the WOMB NOT as an adult. GOD Bless!

Well if you're willing to believe that you came from a monkey what can I say ? lol ! Stop monkeying around ! lol!

You make an error in saying all man-made articles should be neglected. How did you learn to compose a paragraph? How did you learn to add/subtract/multiply? You learnt it from Man. All knowledge is from God, but not all books should be neglected. What you should be specific in referring to is religious scriptures or what is claimed to be religious guidance. Because then it allows man to control other man through belief in what they write. And that is when it becomes dangerous. In the name God, there is nothing wrong with studying man made books about peoples understanding of the world around them, but it does NOT mean we should accept what we read immediately.

Peace...

Exactly. See I actually dont neglect man made articles at all. I know not everything in man made articles is correct, not everything is wrong. Which is why I have a problem with some hadith but not with all. The topic of conversation here is the hadith of the prophecies of the day of judgement and how what is mentioned in those hadith is apparantly coming true. Doesn't mean all hadith are right. But the problem here is, there's people such as Farida for e.g. who on this thread will outright reject a prophecy in a hadith (which is fine) but then when christian missionaries or the gita says there's going to be chaos after a big event, they'll believe that and start watching the olympics. Which to me is a contradiction.

Anyway not to divert from the topic. Let's keep it to the prophecies I discussed in my FIRST POST on this thread.

Peace "dbrowser",

JK- MAN im sorry to say but if you ddidnt know this then you lack basic archaeology lessons. Theres accurate archaeological evidence for this. Here
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egyptian_pyramids#Construction_dates
The pyramids have been dated using various dating methods by modern scientific means. There can be no dount about here date just like there isnt tht the earth is billions of years old and not just a couple of thousand. GOD Bless!

No need to be sorry JK, that's not all there is to it. See the basic premise we believe in is that the Quran is the only 100% reliable, undoctored text ever. Everything else - well man has touched it. That's why the hadith gets bashed, coz all said and done, its the result of man's efforts. So if we're not gonna believe the hadith, which the sunnis say is the result of intense scholarly work and an effort to preserve the prophets words, why do believe what we read in a science book, written by non believers - the same people who teach our kids in schools that we came from monkeys ? I mean if we're gonna reject something on the basis that it's man work and therefore unreliable, at least let's be consistent. It makes no sense to bash a hadith but then accept research by non believers who are the same people who believe in evolution. Come on now! lol!

Peace "dbrowser",

JK- The pyramids were built way before the Prophet Muhammad. Infact they were built way before Prophet Jesus was born. GOD Bless!

and how do you know this ? Through history ? Which we know is the most unreliable source of facts. You get my point ?

Salam,

rotfl No.

Salam,
Arnab

NO ? That means you didn't find it ?

Farida gave you referrences and the search terms that would give you the information you are requesting

plus a reference from the Bhagavad Gita.

There was nothing vague about it.

And, when I performed the search using the terms given....guess what? I got the information you are requesting.

Why don't you do as was suggested and Research it yourself.

YOU are responsible for your sight, hearing and intellect.

Its like the old saying....You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Salam,
Arnab

Salam Arnab,
I did search and guess what I didn't find it. Farida said she's heard the prophecies from christian missinoaries. Well guess what the prophecy about "the bedouins will be competing to build tall buildings" - I did NOT find it in the christiant texts or on sheikh google. But since you apparently did, please do me a favor and send that prophecy to me from the chrisitan texts and/or the gita. Thanks!

Also "christianity" or "the gita" is not exactly considered a reference. If you really have a reference you be as specific as possible, down to the verse/page/chapter whatever #.

Yes with Allah alone is knowledge of the hour. Nobody knows when the hour is. There is nothing in the Quran or the hadith for that matter which tells us WHEN the hour is.

But there are ayahs in the Quran telling us what happens on jdugement day etc. There is also an ayah in the Quran saying that the signs of judgement day have come, and that signs such as Yajuj Majuj etc will come. Therefore, the verse you quoted must be referring to WHEN the hour is.

Peace --

Contradiction! No future telling outside Qur?an...

469 Say "I was not (a) new invention/unprecedented from the messengers, and I do not know what will be made/done with me, nor with you, that I follow except what is being inspired/transmitted to me, and I am not except a clear/evident warner/giver of notice."

No contradiction!

The Knower of the unseen! so He does not reveal His secrets to any,
Except to him whom He chooses as an apostle; for surely He makes a guard to march before him and after him,

Peace "dbrowser",

JK- MAN are pyramids not tall buildings?

And do we know for sure when the pyramids were built ? Before or after the prophet ?