Thought I'd share this with you, it made my blood boil.

A friend told me today she'd been reading an article by a well known Saudi Scholar. Of course he already supports the traditional Saudi ideas of completely covering the face AND EYES completely with a veil and that the abaya should be worn from the head in case (shock horror!) an outline of a shoulder may be seen. He now believes that gloves are not enough and the woman should have a button on the sleeve of the abaya to close when not using the hands so the form of the fingers in the gloves can not be seen! .........

Does the madness have any limits ???

brickwall brickwall brickwall brickwall

Well, I'm sure they are there - they just don't know about me yet sun

And I'm sure there are plenty of men who feel the same about women. ignore

Seriously though Those women who feel they are ok with polygamy I say to them go ahead - as long as ALL parties are GENUINELY happy and not manipulated or forced or put on guilt trips about not being good muslims. Unfortunately I think in most cases male ego is the driving force behind polygamy not real need. Attractiveness/looks/ young age are more often what men go for - which is clearly for man's benefit rather than the women. than the older women/widows/ divorced and without support who might actually appreciate such an arrangement. Although its not likely to be the answer to all their problems and you don't have to marry a woman to support her. I'm not interested in marriage now, and I know what I will and won't accept when and if the time came. Polygamy is not what I want for me or for any future children. I need a companion and best friend - one2one - something a bit more exclusive than polygamy. peace

Giving in to things doesn't make you stronger, it makes you weaker.

A friend of mine really struggled after marriage, She was gorgeous - but her husband just couldn't 'perform', he had been into porn for years and when it came to the real thing he just couldn't do it. She didn't arouse him the way his paper/computer women. After a year of sleeping while her husband 'relieved himself' in the next room. Particulary she was completely sexual frustrated and left him and found someone else.

From a female point of view. I wouldn't want to be with someone who felt they had to 'relieve' themselves in that way. Masterbation you could understand - but porn is to me looking at other people's private parts in a lustful way and therefore zina. I don't agree that 'desire' is always less for women - it probably wouldn't be acceptable for you if females behaved that way - you'd expect them to abstain not be looking at porn. And I wouldn't accept that in any potential spouse

Porn also reduces sex down to animal level. I know for men it is more physical, but still theres more to it than just getting married just to have sex - sorry if its a bit crude but it almost makes your wife the equivelent of a blow up doll - and probably not so perfect.

Salaams dragonflies,

I completely understand how you and others may have come to this exact conclusion, it the headscarf is used to actually cover the chest area and not just as decoration as it sometimes is. Nevertheless, I think once the understanding is accepted that "khumur" means "headscarves", then the proper way to spread it over the chest area would have to include also keeping it on the head in order for the item not to lose it's definition; which is where I think people get lost on the issue. Therefore they try to make "khumur" mean "any covering", which negates the purpose for the ayat being specific about which cover to use.

As Salaamu Alaikum, angel

Wa alykum salam,

I wear headscarf - however if someone feels it means just covering the chest area or general idea of modesty (I've heard the rational that at that time some women would have gone bare-breasted and it is just a command not to go around naked) I'm not going to judge them.

I'm trying to bring back on topic and ask specifically about the Face Cover/niqab. Saudi/Salafi scholars justify niqab using this verse - any rational behind that interpretation?

This issue here isn't over jilbaab, which is in a different sura from the original question about khimar. The issue is about what does "bikhumurihinna" really mean. What is a khimar? How does a woman "spread it over her chest area"?

Pakistani women who wear traditional clothes but don't wear headscarf often have a scarf draped around their chest area. They could justify this from some interpretations of Quran. It can be interpreted mean to bring your headscarf around your chest - but how does it mean suggest to cover the face (the title of the post), to get to that needs a lot of reading between the lines (or in the case of the Saudi approved english interpretaion of Quran - just put your opinion in the brackets so everyone who reads it thinks your interpretion is actually Quran)

That's why sharing is caring! sun angel ! yay group (that's a man with his four wives all caring about each other with loving hearts!) O0

Okay, now how long before the elektro voodoo come?

Naw - I leave those men for other women - someone wanting more than one wife is simply not what I consider a good man for me (no offence). I'm not that desperate to have to share - I want more than a man every other/third/fourth night. Devoted to me or not at all sun

I do believe in freedom of expression but I also think that women who believe that ninja outfit liberates them have serious issues. It is just the extreme opposite.

I like wearing the headscarf since I converted.. maybe I just enjoy dressing up. Dressing ninjah in the West is a big no no for me - it doesn't liberate you here it gets in the way - people don't bother you here in the street. Ironically I've found in muslim countries (even Egypt) its almost essential if you want to be left alone by the local men...

My ex husband decided that I should start believing in Niqab (not to wear it just believe I was sinning for not wearing it) his justification for niqab was the 'khimar' verse. He said when Allah says in Quran for women to draw their cloaks around their chests it means to draw them over the head to cover everything showing only the eyes (to see out of) and now with modern fabrics the eyes don't even have to be seen whatever crazy or what?... sheesh

Oh God Almighty why did you make women unable to tell good men from assholes? Im sorry for the generalization but seriously ...

lol rotfl

The problem is the smart women who can tell the difference get in there and take all the good men before we slow ones catch up sun

The problem exists in the mentally and thinking of the white man. The same parable is similar for women who have mental and emotional stress due to polygyny. The problem is their perception and understanding of polygyny, assuming that they are claiming to be believers in Allah and the guidance given by Him in Al Quran. Women who are not following Quranic guidance, then I would not expect them to accept polygyny. The problem is that women who are supposed to be, or claim to be following Quranic guidance, have taken on the attitude of those who don't. (including some men who are obviously too in touch with their feminine side.)

You're making Man sound all powerful here. Reread my post before you argue against something I never even said. I said SOMETIMES polygamy is wife abuse (not always if the women are genuinely not bothered). I'm not saying polygamy is forbidden, I'm saying its wrong to blame the woman for not accepting it or for saying divorce is a sin for the woman. A woman should never be forced to stay or made to feel guilty if she decides its best for her not to be in such a situation. If a man choses his 'right' to take up another wife, a woman has the right to divorce him. In your previous post you said this is no grounds for divorce. A woman married a single man, suddenly he is not single - he's changed from what she married, she hasn't & is as faithful as ever. Why should she have to accept (or feel bad for NOT accepting) 'half' a husband when perhaps emotionally, physically, sexually, financially, whatever, its not enough for her? Perhaps her husband will no longer seem attractive to her, she may no longer want him to touch her - it happens. Women tend to be more in touch with their emotions when it comes to the physical relationship. Sure she could still give him what he wants, but be completely turned off (no religion or teaching can force you to find someone else desirable).
Maybe the woman who's husband takes another would feel inadequate or have damaged self esteem.
Your analogy is very flawed a racist man not wanting to live on the same street with someone of another colour (quite impersonal) is WAAYYY different to sharing a house and a bed and maybe a family with someone (something very personal).

The prophet's wives were obviously married to a prophet, not a regular muslim guy. Too many muslim guys think following the Prophet (pbuh) makes them as attractive as the Prophet nope they are not.

For someone who (I presume) has more than one wife or maybe intends to have more than one. You have very, very little understanding of the mentality of women.

I hope dragonflies realizes that she was taken advantage of, and if her husband really loved her he wouldn't have treated her that way.

This is what people keep telling me and what I am trying to get into my thick skull &not keep blaming myself for my inability to not talk back or obey without question.

'Love is not Love, that alters when it alteration finds...' (Shakespeare)

A women claiming emotional abuse because a man takes another wife is only fooling herself, not Allah.

I think you are the one fooling yourself. I pray for the day such attitudes leave the muslim male mindset. Yes polygamy is sometimes wife abuse. Some men take another wife to 'punish' wife no. 1 for not being good enough or what he wanted etc (But hey, its his right, yeah?). Then forbid her to have the right to leave him. Sorry but thats such a selfish attitude. The man who thinks Polygamy is his absolute right is only fooling himself, not Allah.

Sharing is a Quranic concept, and women are told to share their husbands with other wives just as the Prophet's wives had to share him. Your equating this to threatening with emotional abuse is against Quranic clarity that even you admit to. Suggesting divorce for such situations is paramount to promoting to take apart what Allah has enjoined, to fight against Allah.

Yes, some women may be able to accept this situation, thats their business. If a woman is broken hearted because her faithful love and devotion is repaid by her husband giving his time, love and **** to some other woman. Why should she have to stay with this? On what grounds should she be forced to stay? She should have the freedom to leave and not be blackmailed into staying by her husbands false righteousness ('if you were a good muslim you would let me do this/wouldn't cry/wouldn't divorce/ would work to please me&#039 or by him holding their kids to manipulate her into staying.

I'm not speaking from a position of ignorance. I have seen this behaviour and situations with my own eyes and heard this reasoning with my own ears. For many women in some 'Shariah ruled' countries they have absolutely no comeback when their husbands treat them like ****.

Love is not blind! Its only when fool fall in love; they go blind...

I think its not when fools fall in love that love is blind.
Many smart women (and men!) make dumb choices. Its def. the love that makes you blind.

MashaAllah,
Alhamdulilah how our minds can be opened.
Its so easy to write people off, but everone of us can learn and improve whatever or whoever we are. I think we start learning the moment we learn to take our first breath, and keep learning to the grave. handshake

Sorry if I was a bit harsh in my post to you to D

We were married under 'wahabi shariah' according to his country then then the certificate registered through my embassy , unfortunately i think in such circumstance, the divorce only can be actioned from there (plus with the divorce rules here you have to be married 2years before you can start divorce proceedings anyway). If I get something offical there I can present it to the BD&M office here, inshaAllah. Judges there consider a text message valid, legal divorce, I just hope he will inform the authorities & provide this to me (and I can't force this -when he won't even answer the phone or have any contact with me now). I don't think any lawyer here will have much authority over there - nor do I have the money to go chasing this up. In terms of any dowry or support, if he doesn't want me, I don't really want it, its not worth fighting for - I'm going to have to write it off to experience!

I have kept the text message as proof though.

Thanks for your replies. I was so messed up the first morning I posted, I've really felt encouraged by some of the posts on this blog. Getting my head together and getting over the shock. Its so surreal - I've read about things like this, I didn't think it would actually happen, not him, not us!

In his country previous judgess accept a text message as valid - he will just have to register it. He may or may not let me know. Unfortunatelt its a closed country& I will not be able to go there or chase this up. I'm figuring if it is a valid divorce there it will be recognised here. InshaAllah khair.

Thanks for the tough talk, I need to hear it. Being 'abandoned' is a horrible feeling, It hurts now, and I'm venting online rather than let my family see what he's done to me, I know this is only a tempory blip & have no intention of being beaten down by it.
sun

Yes Joe, such a man's dream - so much that I get dropped like a hot potato.
Every action had an islamic point to back it up - his Islam does not have women's rights.
Yes I am loyal& maybe too easy to forgive, but I'd rather be that and get burned than unfaithful and get away with it.

Thanks for your post Dotty. I'm going through so many mixed emotions right now, hurt, anger, love, hope, pain. But I know time will heal, eventually. He's not a man to change his mind once he's made it, he's in the gulf and I know if I'm honest with myself, I will never see him again.

I didn't chose to be a muslim because of him, and I won't leave because of him, But sometimes everything islamic reminds me of him. Even Quran, I remember hearing him recite that surah or something and it just hurts. voodoo

Yes apparently.
My husband divorced me - by text message.
I thought at least I have 3 months before its final, maybe we can reconcile.
But no he says,
The 'iddah' (acording to his great and wise scholars) is just a time for me to wait until I remarry again, NO chance for reconciliation (I've begged and I've asked), NO financial support (not that I'd take it, I didn't marry him for his money).
The dowry was to be the house he got for me in his country, he says he will keep it 'in memorial' of me (wtf, I'm not dead!) and 'the biggest loss of his life', but I can't go there, I can't be with him and he doesn't want me in his life.
He wants nothing to do with me (i am a useless wife - not a good enough muslim - too independent (I barely leave the house) - too disobedient for his liking)
And so thats it, one text message and I am no longer his wife!
I have absolutely no comeback.
3 years and a lot of flack from my family. We go through the process to get permission in his country, I have the visa in my passport as his wife.
His family all know (don't like it but they know),
And 1 text and its all over.
Its shameful.
So much for 'women's rights in Islam'

Well I thought I had found my soulmate.
I've loved him for three years.
When he started getting stricter, I tried to stand up for myself.
And now I'm alone
and he doesn't want anything to do with me.

I wish I know what to do next. I am scared to get a job in case he won't take me back
I want him to take me back, but not it to hurt anymore
He said no one will love me or treat me as well as he did when I behaved, and I can't get that out of my head.
I stood out on a limb to marry this man - going against family and friends
I can't bear to tell people its over and hear, 'I told you so'
And it seems like every worry they had about him, he made it come true in their eyes, but I still think he is good person and his country is good, even if things have hurt me a lot.
Why couldnt I just kept my mouth shut& I'd be ok (

Peace,

Yes I do recognise them and I also know that this problem is not there only in Muslim world but in the west as well. But on the name of women rights west has only drived women to achieve the following

Leaving the husbands, freedom to kill their children, be lesbians and freedom of drinking, smoking, having casual sex and drug use. Freedom of showing their body parts in public, choosing the length of their skirts and the size of their surgically enhanced breasts and become a sex symbol.

This is what women have been traped so far on the name of their rights. This is what west wants Muslim world to adopt. We strongly condemn such insult of humanity. We should only raise our voice against the opression in whatever form it is and ask about the human rights in the first place. This is the only way we can make women feel human and and same as men again as God has created her.

Peace all, Hamsa

My western Christian mother and western Christian sister in law have never left their husbands, killed their children, become lesbians, drunk alchohol, taked drugs or smoked. They both dress modestly, have only been with their husbands and never had sex before marriage (or surgically enhanced their breasts). This is rubbish.

In contrast, my Muslim gulf arab inlaws have judged me based on my background, refused to acknowledge my existance due to the colour of my skin and my nationality. My husband has been constantly putting me down and won't accept for me to have an opinion of my own. He just divorced me today - by text message.

In contrast to you, despite my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE I will not say all muslims are bad (I am one) or that all gulf arabs treat women badly. But I will say that when wife abuse/women abuse happens I think there is little backup for the women to get out of it in muslim countries. When I was there for a short time - I was COMPLETELY at my husband's mercy. Thats hardly fair.