Waalaykum assalam! As you can tell I am not doctrinaire on the salat so you could well be right on 5 salat per day (I don't find the concept of ra'kahs in the Qur'an but am not super doctrinaire about that either). Since much of my "justification" is more due to life circumstances rather than any claim to Qur'anic exegesis, I am open to changing my practice once life circumstances allow.

I instantly saw the conflicts with the larger Ahmadiyya Community (the so-called "Qadiani&quot who viewed MGA as a prophet after Muhammad, so I had converted through the "Lahore" Ahmadi Movement (which is only about 1% of Ahmadis) which only saw MGA as a "Reformer" and not as a prophet - but I only converted to Islam through them but never officially joined their bai'at. I never lived close enough to an Ahmadi community really to participate. Later I also did shahadah at a "mainstream" masjid that I was attending on the occasions when I could. They seemed to like to display the "white" (I actually have European and Cherokee ancestry) Muslim convert which made me a little uncomfortable, and there was some Wahhabi thought floating around.

But, yes, when reading Ahmadi literature from either branch they do come out closer to Tolu-e-Islam or Qur'anist thought and practice. When I was first studying Islam on my own it was through reading a translation of the Qur'an (I think it was Pickthall's) which was so clear and attractive to me as opposed to what I later found that Hadiths and Shariah interpretations have done to the religion.

While my own "practice" is fairly "mainstream" in that while I do salat of 2 ra'kahs in a traditional style three time per day (although I do "Qur'anic" wudu of 4 steps) personally some of this is because of life circumstances. I work in a field where I am dealing with life threatening emergencies dealing with children on a daily basis so praying 5 times per day during work hours (or combining prayers) is simply not feasible. I find traditional style salat helpful for me both in divine remembrance as well as physically (I was hit by a bus years ago and have chronic back pain so I find the salat positions, minus the prostration on the floor which I cannot do so I do it from a chair, helpful with alleviating pain and tension in my back).

This is to say that I don't concern myself about other Muslims' daily salat practices whether they are doing traditional 5 times per day of 2-4-4-3-4 ra'kahs with traditional wudu (which even the majority of regular Muslims are not really doing), or doing something else, or nothing at all. I will never be financially or physically able to perform hajj so I don't worry about that. Saum is also a challenge due to health issues and kidney problems (I cannot fast from water or I damage my kidneys) so I try to maintain a juice and water fast during Ramadan and donate what I can to feed the poor.

Nice to meet you. Feel free to email me at [email protected] if you ever want to ask anything. Feel free to read my views and let me know what you think.

I think maybe you should increase your prayers to a number which at least matches or exceeds that of the most self-righteous sectarians, then you can act like their big boss and also don't risk falling into hell according to them maybe.

LOL! I'm not even a good "big boss" of me. I've tried, of course, but keep making bad decisions - usually the worst one is thinking that I actually have control over things!

Peace!

You know, some of us follow Rashad Khalifa's teachings (aka Submitters), but do not impart him as a divine being at all, rather as a messenger of God, just like others were. He was the one who is credited to revive the "Quran alone" movement.
http//www.masjidtucson.org/submission/faq/messenger_of_covenant.html

As long as you are not ascribing divine qualities such as infallibility to Rashad Khalifa, then I don't necessarily see a problem with that. It sounds like a similar position to that taken by the Lahore Ahmadis.

"Once one accepts and follows Hadiths which contradict the Qur'an"

Again, you will find that Hadith that are contradictory to the Quran are not implemented as law.

Hmm... I'll just refer you to some interpretations of Sharia which go above and beyond the penalties called for in the Qur'an. The penalty for stealing is one example or the interpretation of hijab is another. Personally I think many Hadiths are used as excuses to implement cultural bias rather than Qur'anic values. But you are welcome to your own interpretation.

True, but there is a fine line between shirk and Risalah - often they become one and the same. Basically in my mind, once one imparts divine-like qualities like infallibility to a human being which is what Qadiani Ahmadis do to Qadiani and Baha'is do to Baha'u'llah then it crosses that line to me. As Earthdom pointed out Lahore Ahmadis view Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as a reformer.

I feel the same about Hadiths and the Qur'an. Once one accepts and follows Hadiths which contradict the Qur'an then one is elevating Hadiths OVER the Qur'an. It is thus not a "lazy accusation" as you implied but one following a specific rationale.

Unitarian in the theological sense (NOT the modern "Unitarian Universalist" usage) is another term for a strict monotheist. For example, Unitarian Christians do not believe in the Trinity concept but maintain that Jesus (pbuh) was a prophet, but not God himself.

Thanks! I just submitted a request to join the Facebook group. I've given up on trying to find the "perfect" group. Instead, I am trying to find the one that I philosophically and theologically agree with the most as I have a classical "unitarian" monotheistic conception of God - where the unity of God is emphasized and human beings, traditions, etc. are not put on a similar platform with God by being declared as inerrant, infallible, etc. Basically I do not believe that the true ineffable nature of God can be fully expressed through any finite vehicle such as a human being or a book (the Qur'an, to me, is the best preserved text which is consistently monotheistic and does not commit shirk which is what gives it more authority), or oral or written tradition.

Basically I don't mind if others choose to follow Sunnah/Hadiths (that don't conflict with the Qur'an), but would have an issue if they insisted that I do so.

Assalamu alaykum! I came to a Qur'an Only position over time. When I first explored Islam I knew I had some reservations with the traditional "mainstream" interpretation of Sunnah, so I converted to Islam through the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement (this is the much smaller but more mainstream branch of Ahmadi Muslims). Both Ahmadi branches take the approach of not following any Hadiths or interpretations of Shariah which contradict the teachings of the Qur'an. So they allow music, owning dogs, the Qur'anic penalties for transgressions (and not the harsher edicts of the Hadiths). This worked for me for quite a while but I found that basically using this approach I was becoming "Qur'anist" by default. And as much as I respect some of the insights of Hazrat Ghulam Ahmad, it does seem that by elevating any type of Reformer, Prophet, or Messenger too much easily can become a form of shirk which contradicts the message of "God Alone".

I was basically a nonpracticing Muslim for 12 years before I came to a Qur'an Only understanding.

Right now I am comfortable with doing salat 3 times per day of 2 ra'kahs each as it helps me to keep continual mindfulness of God during my day. I am okay with others having different views and practices (and perhaps this is what some Qur'anists need to discover). I am even okay with others being a little more traditional or having sectarian views (I have no problem with either branch of Ahmadiyya or even the more moderate mainstream Muslims). I try to read a little of the Qur'an each day. I do find that when I willingly submit myself to God then I act less like a jerk (and yes I can be a jerk which is why I need Islam).

I'm out in the southern California area (Downey and Tehachapi) if anyone would like to meetup sometime.

Peace!

For myself I only find salat-ul Fajr, salat-ul Isha, and salat-ul Wusta specifically mentioned in the Qur'an. There is a fair amount of conjecture that salat-ul Wusta is another reference to salat-ul Juma and not a separate prayer time. On the other hand I don't think there is anything wrong with doing salat 5 times a day if possible. I also don't think there is a problem with doing salat in the "tradtional" fashion if some of the wording is altered or removed to avoid shirk (of course, I don't have a problem with alternative views of salat either). So for me, if I can find justification in the Qur'an for at least 2 daily prayers (morning and evening) as well as Friday Juma as a minimal requirement, then it is even better for me to do 3 daily and even better than that to do 5 daily.

The same with ra'kats (if one views or does salat in the more "traditional" manner)... I'm partial to doing at least 2 ra'kats for each salat which is consistent with what is fard for Juma. And I see nothing wrong with doing more ra'kats so if someone wants to do 5 salat per day with 2-4-4-3-4 in terms of ra'kat then that's great too.

What say you?

Assalamu alaykum,

I was raised up Mormon and went through a religious quest which brought me to the Baha'i Faith which spurred my interest in Islam as it really introduced me to at least a conception of pure monotheism. I first took shahadah in a Sunni-run masjid but I found their interpretations to be too harsh (many new reverts to Islam are unaware of the large focus on Sunnah and Hadiths as our perception of Islam usually comes from reading a translation of the Qur'an and introductions to Islam do not touch heavily on how much Islamic practice comes from non-Qur'anic sources). So I looked at Ahmadiyya and I liked some of their interpretations but found that they seem to commiting shirk (the same issue I have with the Baha'i and Christianity, and the same issue I have with the veneration of Hadith over the words of the Qur'an by mainstream Muslims). For a while I fell away due to lack of faith (coupled with severe health and financial issues) as I could not find what really resonates with me but I hope to find it here, Insha Allah.

Dave (aka Dawud Salim)