I've answered the mountains as pegs and stabilisers in a video mentioned in this post
https//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610078.0

Richard

This site could help you http//arabic.tripod.com/index.html

Many thanks for this, but I'll be using the quotations in an official journal (hopefully!), so I can't do it myself as I'm not confident enough.

This and more can be found in the book

External References to Islam
by Peter Kirby (September 11, 2003)
http//www.christianorigins.com/islamrefs.html

It is indeed fascinating. There was another topic which mentioned this book.

Richard

Peace be with you. Religion has a lot to answer for.
)
Richard

Salaam
Jesus seems to be a very interesting person.
did he wrote a book i can read ?
Peace

LOL - I raise my hat to you!

Dear JesusIsTheWayTruthLife I am a Christian, but came to this forum to share and learn. Try learning from people first

Act 1034 Then Peter opened mouth and said "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality.
Act 1035 "But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

Who is to say that they are not already 'saved'?

Richard
+

An interesting introduction.
Richard

Just found a rather interesting reference to Jesus sleeping with 5 virgins

And ye shall be like the wise virgins which watched and slept not, but went forth unto the lord into the bridechamber ...
He said unto us The five wise are Faith and Love and Grace and Peace and Hope. Now they of the faithful which possess this (these) shall be guides unto them that have believed on me and on him that sent me. For I am the Lord and I am the bridegroom whom they have received, and they have entered in to the house of the bridegroom and are laid down with me in the bridal chamber rejoicing.

para 43, EPISTLE OF THE APOSTLES
http//www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/apostolorum.html

However with names like "Faith and Love and Grace and Peace and Hope" it is clearly not literal. Just to further clarify the non-literal interpretation of the hoori.

Richard

In my view, God is indeed outside of all creation.
However, the Light of God is indeed present within the whole creation. It is hidden from us because of our lack of simplicity,innocence, and gentleness of heart.

This avoids Panentheistic thoughts. Nothing is divine except the one God. Yet that does not stop Him truly embracing His own creation! If our logic cannot grasp our earthly life, how much less so the existence of God ...

Of course, God is one and indivisible according to our understanding. There are not two divinities, God and His Light. God and His Light are one. Then again, His Light is not like a light we see, a shining which leaves its sources and causes the source to be a little depleted. The sun shines, and loses some energy, and the light we see is not the actual sun, but its light. The Light of God 'shines' from God into our hearts but never leaves God, so to speak.

God's otherness and nearness are thereby defended!

Richard

If anyone is still reading this topic then you might find the following link helpful

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603782.msg323079#msg323079

Richard

The most important 'hoor' is actually mentioned in the Bible

Rev 219 Then one of the seven angels ... talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife."
Rev 2110 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 2111 having the glory of God. Her light like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal.
...
Rev 2116 The city is laid out as a square; its length is as great as its breadth. And he measured the city with the reed twelve thousand furlongs. Its length, breadth, and height are equal.

This bride or 'hoor' is actually a figure for the city Jerusalem which is a perfect cube. The perfect cube represents the Holy of Holies in the Temple (it also was a perfect cube) in which the glory of God (=Light of Allah) shone.

This symbolism is very common in a Jewish Christian work written about 100AD we read, "The woman whom you saw is Zion, which you now behold as a city being built" (2 Esdras 1044)

It is in this context that the 'hoori' of the Quran and hadith need to be interpreted.

Richard

I would like to 'like' your post, but there is no 'like' button ...

Hello )
Richard

Some very interesting comment here! )

congratulations )

In the two places in the Quran where it goes against the semi-Christian belief in three gods, you have mistakenly kept the translation of the simple word for the number three as being 'Trinity'

4171 O people of the Book, do not overstep in your system, nor say about God except the truth. Jesus, son of Mary, was no more than a messenger of God and the fulfillment of His word to Mary and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do not say "Trinity." ...

573 Rejecters indeed are those who have said "God is a trinity!" ...

I have discussed that there were indeed tri-theists around at the time of Muhammad, which is why the word Trinity does not appear in the Quran, but only three and 'third of three'. Had Allah wanted to refer to the mainstream Christian doctrine of the Trinity, He would have done (along with a direct reference to the Holy Spirit in the trinitarian formula!).

Tri-theists mentioned here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605042.0

Additionally, in 4171 "and the fulfillment of His word to Mary" is another example of not letting go of later Islamic thought. The word 'fulfillment' is not present in the Quran, the phrase should read

(417120)
wakalimatuhu
and His word

(417121)
alqh
which He conveyed

(417122)
il
to

(417123)
maryama

http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=4&verse=171#(41711)

Richard

Did you know that there were Christian tri-theists around during Muhammad's time? They were condemned by the mainstream churches. Would explain why the term 'Trinity' never occurs in the Quran, just the term 'three' or 'third of three'. See more here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605042.0

Does this interest you?

Richard

Hello

Richard

Ibn Kathir uses 'we' to refer to the angels only, as in the following

(And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein.) means, His angels are nearer to man than his jugular vein. Those who explained We' in the Ayah to mean Our knowledge,' have done so to avoid falling into the idea of incarnation or indwelling; but these two creeds are false according to the consensus of Muslims. Allah is praised and glorified, He is far hallowed beyond what they ascribe to Him. The words of this Ayah do not need this explanation (that We' refers to Allah's knowledge&#039, for Allah did not say, `and I am closer to him than his jugular vein.' Rather, He said,

(And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein. ) just as He said in the case of dying persons,

(But We are nearer to him than you, but you see not.) (5685), in reference to His angels (who take the souls). Allah the Exalted the Blessed said,

(Verily, We, it is We Who have sent down the Dhikr and surely, We will guard it.) (159) Therefore, the angels brought down the revelation, the Qur'an, by the leave of Allah, the Exalted, the Most Honored. Thus, the angels are closer to man than his own jugular vein, by the power and leave of Allah. Consequently, the angel touches mankind, just as the devil touches them, for the devil is as close to them as the blood that runs in their veins; just as Allah's Prophet , who is truthful and was told the truth, told us.
http//www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1730&Itemid=106

Here it is assumed that any nearness of Allah to his creation is blasphemy.
Of course, heaven forbid that 'we' might collectively refer to both Allah (who is outside of all creation) and the Light of Allah (which shines inside the same creation), even though Allah is one and indivisible ...

Richard

Peace. The hoori are finally described in this post here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604977.msg321045#msg321045

Have no fear. It is a symbolic way of saying that we shine with Light of Allah, and is for men and women equally. In the Bible, all the believers can be described as females being the bride of Christ, "I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present a chaste virgin to Christ." (2 Corinthians 112) - and yet this is not for women only!

And yes, this is a shamless advert for my topic!

Richard

Peace. The hoori are finally described in this post here

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604977.msg321045#msg321045

Have no fear. It is a symbolic way of saying that we shine with Light of Allah, and is for men and women equally. In the Bible, all the believers can be described as females being the bride of Christ, "I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present a chaste virgin to Christ." (2 Corinthians 112) - and yet this is not for women only!

And yes, this is a shamless advert for my topic!

Richard