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Fatima

@Fatima
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  • A punishment for couples who are not married?
    F Fatima

    Peace,

    Yes, it's mentioned in verse 242 .

    Khalifa
    The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty.
    Yusuf Ali
    The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by God, if ye believe in God and the Last Day and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.
    Pickthal
    The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.
    Shakir
    (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.
    Sher Ali
    The adulteress and the adulterer - flog each one of them with a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain take hold of you in executing the judgement of Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of the believers witness their punishment.
    "Progressive Muslims"
    The adulteress and the adulterer, you shall lash each of them one hundred lashes, and do not let any pity take you over God's system if you believe in God and the last day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment.

    General Issues / Questions

  • Is God objectifying women?
    F Fatima

    Peace,

    I beileve you meant to say verse 314; is that right? If yes, then I guess this would clear 90% of the problem I am having understanding the concept behind this verse.

    No, I meant 937 . I'll present all the avaliable translations so we can compare
    Khalifa
    Altering the Sacred Months is a sign of excessive disbelief...
    Yusuf Ali
    Verily the transposing (of a prohibited month) is an addition to Unbelief...
    Pickthal
    Postponement (of a sacred month) is only an excess of disbelief...
    Shakir
    Postponing (of the sacred month) is only an addition in unbelief...
    Sher Ali
    Surely the postponement of the Sacred Month is an addition to disbelief...
    Progressive Muslims
    Know that accelerating the leap month is an increase in rejection...

    As you know , to postpone is to hold back to a later time . What I'm trying to say here is that nisa'a & nis'e are connected in meaning (as they go back to the same root).Nis'e is actually a singular that has two purlals nisa'a & niswa( I explained in my previous posts how they are connected in meaning) . Nisa'a can be used as purlal of women .How do we know when God refers to women ? Through the context it was used in. In my second post in this topic I explained another use of the word nisa'a(notice it still revolves around the same meaning) as it wouldn't make much sense if it indeed refers to women. I know it's confusing ? .

    If the word used in 314 is nis'e and not annisa then, yes, there might be a totally different "ending" to that verse.
    So, just so I get it straight annisa in Arabic purely means "women"; whereas, nise might mean woman, but also modern/newer things?

    The word used in 314 is nisa'a ( or more accurately a-nisa'a where a stands for the ) but still it doesn't necessarily refer to women , it could but not in this case IMO .

    Questions/Comments on the Quran

  • Is God objectifying women?
    F Fatima

    Peace,

    Is this because of the eve and rib theory? Was that prevalent in christianity before the revelation of the quran?
    It's interesting but would you recommend a book or so which discusses this...or is this common arabic knowledge that the word nisaa is because the women came later?

    I'm afraid I can't answer these questions . You might find this interesting too, another theory for why women are referred to as nisa'a in Arabic is because they are the ones responsible for giving birth which makes them the bearers of the later/coming generations. In 2431 (I'm using Abdullah Yusufali's translation or rather interpetation )

    And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards God, that ye may attain Bliss.

    Note I don't think it's correct but it serves the point I'm trying to make.

    Dr. Shahrour says that nisa'a here (the underlined part )doesn't refer to women either , he says it refers to the later/coming generations decsending from the believing women. The verse says that these women are not supposed to display their beauty except for their
    1-husbands
    2-fathers
    3-husbands' fathers
    4-sons
    5-husbands' sons
    6-brothers
    7-brothers' sons
    8-sisters' sons
    Notice that the verse till here is talking about men .
    9-women ???
    If nisa'a ( or nisa'ehen to be more accurate) indeed refers to women , which women are meant ? Other believeing women ?
    Dr. Shahrour says that nisa'ehen here refers to the coming/later generations like grandchildren, which makes more sense IMO. Actually, if you refer to PM's translation nisa'ehen is translated as ( their children that come after them).

    If you do speak Arabic then could you please skim a translation of that article for me? Just the main points. I tried sending you a private message regarding this, but I guess it did not work.

    I would be glad to, but it's going to take time. I'll post it as soon as I finish it.

    Also, here's my question How would one know in what sense what word is being used? The word used is clearly "nisa'a" which means women.

    Well , like in English a word can a have a number of meanings but usually in Arabic they are closely related.We know its meaning through the context it was used in.

    Now eventhough it means modern/new, do you think the case would be the same with all the places in the Koran where the word "nisa'a" is used? Could God use a word that is so close to having two totally different meanings?

    No, not neccesarily( FYI, the word nis'e is mentioned in 9 37 )
    As I said earlier , an Arabic word has a number of meanings but they all revolve around one main meaning . I'll give you an example .
    The word tar in Arabic corresponds to flew in English (In Arabic the infinitive is the past tense, it's three-lettered usually ).
    tayar = pilot (male)
    tayara = pilot (female)
    ta'era = airplane
    ta'er = bird
    Pilot , airplane & bird all revolve around the same meaning which is flying . That's why they go back to same root. This also applies to nisa'a. If my explanation isn't clear please tell me.

    By the way, the person who wrote that article (whose link you posted) Dr. Muhammed Shahrour is he an Arab? Is Arabic his native language? Through my experience, I think it is best to ask such questions to those who speak that language and are fluent in it, instead of asking those who can only understand is so-much.

    Yes , he's Syrian . Actually free-minds.org has translated some excerpts of his books , here's the link
    http//free-minds.org/books/shahroor.htm

    Questions/Comments on the Quran

  • Is God objectifying women?
    F Fatima

    Peace,

    Dr. Muhammed Shahrour has a very interesting opinion regarding this verse. He says that word nisa'a here doesn't refer to the purlal of woman but to the purlal of nas'e . The word nas'e refers to something that comes later or after ( which could also mean it's newer or more modern). Actually, women are called nisa'a in Arabic because the Arabs believed they came later to existence ( meaning after men ).

    I think this makes more sense since people in general do find pleasure in acquiring the newest or the latest of everything ( e.g. cars,clothes,etc...). Also , as mentioned earlier, both men & woman are addressed ( all people) which supports his view IMO.

    Another interesting thing is that he doesn't think the word baneen refers to children ( I don't know if I can talk about it in this topic brcause it might be considered off-topic).

    For those who speak Arabic & are interested in reading Dr. Shahrour's opinions on this subject I reccomend checking this page
    http//www.shahrour.org/bookListPages.php?cid=462&pid=638&page=637&bid=1&imagetopurl=drasat1.jpg

    Questions/Comments on the Quran
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