Salaam Danish

Salaam Danish

This verse is talking about the idol gods they created, fabricated, invented so to say ?made up? fits right into that context.

?There is no "made up" as underlined above but rather "named". The sentence should read as "These are names that you named?

I think you are missing a very crucial point by Brother Khidr. Khidr have said ?Lat? and those other idol gods that they created but was never authorized by Allah came much later after the original name Allah so you cannot create a feminine of Allah using those names that came into late or created by the hands of men much later after Allah. You cannot get around this. Don?t forget Allah is in Aramaic language as well and the name Allah was used before Muhammad was born.

Salaam Fatimah12

It is nice to be supportive of someone, but it is an obligation to be fair. Neither you nor Al Khider answered to my explanation of the word "3abd" or "3ibaada". He mentioned "worship" and "serve". How are these two related as the two Arabic terms 3abd and 3ibaada? How do you "serve" God, in the same meaning as a slave serves you, e.g? You need the slave's service, does God need your service?

Have you read the link you provided? I doubt that, although you claim that it came up with Al Khidr explanation. I haven't even read in the article "worship"! How about that? In fact, it mentioned, first thing as meaning of 3abada to obey; to yield!! It goes on to say

Also, since the primary role of a slave is to obey his master...
, you see? Not to serve his master. This's what I said

hence 3abd is a slave because he/she obeys

Compare with my post if you haven't read it.

Here is your whole article. Please point to me where it says to "worship" or to "serve"

Like the other two basic terms already dealt with, the term 'ibadah too has several different meanings, though all related to each other. The basic concept implied by the root word, 'abd, is that of acknowledging someone other than oneself as holding supremacy or enjoying overlordship and of abdicating one's freedom and independence in big favour, of relinquishing any resistance to or disobedience of him, and of surrendering oneself totally to his authority. Since slavery or bondage too are tantamount to similar status, the first sense the word conveys to the mind of any Arab is of this very factor, namely, slavery or bondage.

Also, since the primary role of a slave is to obey his master and carry out his wishes, the word also carries the sense of submission and obedience. Next, a slave not only submits himself to the will of his master physically, but mentally too he accepts his supremacy, and if he at the same time has feelings of gratitude for his kindnesses and favours, he is inclined spontaneously to go out of his way in extolling the master and in showing respect and regard for him. He expresses and demonstrates his obligation in many ways to show his deep attachment, in a manner amounting almost to worship although, obviously, this comes into play only when, in addition to physical bondage, there is mental attachment too.

There are two other senses also in which the word or its derivatives are employed, but they are secondary, and hence it is not necessary to go into them at this stage.

I wonder what those two senses are!!

Peace Samia

Yes your right you have to be fair but I don?t think you really read Khidr?s post accurately. Number one you said

?It is nice to be supportive of someone, but it is an obligation to be fair. Neither you nor Al Khidr answered to my explanation of the word "3abd" or "3ibaada"

Brother Khidr said he did not disagree with your explaination. His statement is in his post and I really hope that you took time to read it. When I read his post he said that he ONLY disagrees with you when you said that it neither means worship, slave, serve and he provided more than enough information to you that shows it does mean worship, slave, serve and the sources that he used also provided more definitions. This is what I mean by when I think you need to drop your ego. Abd is the root and those Arabic words do mean worship, slave, serve and even much more including what you have explained.

The link that I have provided also uses the word worship to explain ibadah and more. Didn?t you read this part of the article where the author uses the word worship and even the Qur?anic verses in the article translated ibadah as worship. Honestly did you read it? You only quoted 1/3 of the article and left out the majority of the article. If you deny this I will be happy to quote the sections that uses the word worship for ibadah. You can?t even read a straight forward article, just let me know and I will quote it for you. The link to the article is here again

http//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_four_term/t4_ibadah.htm

I notice that you said, ?You need the slave's service, does God need your service?? For one Khidr never said that the Creator needs our service and he never said that the Creator Allah need our salaat. I never made such claim either, this is what he meant by you introducing arguments/comments that has nothing to do with anything or what he was talking about. I do as brother Khidr have said you lack observation skills. You ego is flaring high. Pointless arguments go no where.

I notice that you never answered brother Khidr?s question here

Are you saying that Alaha in Aramiac is a verb?

Do you believe that Allah in the Qur'aan is also a verb?

Peace

Peace Samia

I have viewed this thread and your dialogue with Khidr and I think you should put down your ego. Just admit you made a mistake by saying that abd neither means worship, slave, serve. I do not know why you would say that Khidr only said it means worship when he also demonstrated that it means more than worship. Its in black and white, its there everybody can clearly read it. You are the only person I know who claims to have Arabic knowledge and say that abd does not mean worship, slave, servant which is false and you keep on dragging this on by making pointless arguments and comments.

You again continue to make pointless arguments and comments such as Khidr trying to be funny. When I read it I can tell he was being sarcastic to that athiest Danish.

It would be nice to get back to the original topic

This right here is an interesting link that address ibadah in the Qur'aan and its various meanings and some of those meanings brother Khidr indicated

http//www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Books/M_four_term/t4_ibadah.htm

Peace

Salaam @Heart,

U have said this

I find contact prayers hard to do, because I don't want to recite Surahs from the Quran that I don't understand

If that so, why dont u learn to understand the Surahs from the Qur'aan that u have to recite on ur salaat? instead of not wanting to recite surahs that u dont understand, then why u dont trained urself to understand them?
When Allah command us to do something, and we found it to be hard to do or even hard to accept, then it must be something wrong with us (the human, the creation, unperfect thing) and not The Creator.

I feel like a fool when I make up prayers while standing in the middle of my room and trying to focus on God.

Don't be!!! Either u standing alone in the middle of your room or standing alone in the middle of desert, Allah witness everything. Again @heart, to be focus to our Creator, u need to practise urself and also when u do Salaat, u need to come humble and realise that ur just a human, nothing but a weak thing that Allah has created. And ur about to worship The Creator, eventhough u cant see Him, but with your faith, u know that He's there and always there to witness everything.

I also experience that when I do my contact prayers I most of the time do it against my will.

Thats because u still think Salaat as a burden instead as a need for us as a human. U dont really find its necessary to do Salaat, as long as we remember Allah, then it will be enough. Well @Heart, Allah is The One Who give us laws and rules to follow and not us.

I feel guilty when I don't keep up doing the contact prayers.

Thats good because u know that ur wrong at least u feel that way.

I myself don't have the feeling that it's necessary, because I'm always connected with God. And when I say always, I mean 24/7! I don't really believe in a standard ritual contact prayer just to connect with God.

Again @Heart, we are not the one who give the laws and the rules of this life. Its Allah Who does that.
If we did on your way, later on people would say that we dont need to feed poor people or to give some of our money to our families (relatives) as long as we stay humble and kind or husbands will say, we dont need to be the beard earners for our family as long as we be a good husband and stay loyal with our wives or women to say we dont need to wear long dress and wear khamar (head-covering) because the important is our heart. etc etc.

But again @Heart, its not us who give the law. Its Allah. And one of Allah command is to do Salaat, the real Salaat prayer beside of course we have to remember Him always. How we remember Allah? its not enough to just sleep with Allah in ur mind. Im not saying its wrong, but its just not enough. To remember Allah always is to do all what His command and to avoid all what He forbid. We can not choose one that we prefer, we have to do all of His rules. No human is perfect but Allah judge us by our intensions. So we must to try to do our best.

I will give you one ayat that I see fit on your situation, may u learn something from this

20132
You shall enjoin your family to observe the contact prayers (Salat), and steadfastly persevere in doing so. We do not ask you for any provisions; we are the ones who provide for you. The ultimate triumph belongs to the righteous.

Salaam

Salaam Ammarb87

Fatimah as for our discussion on women's clothes .. The part where Allah says to' lengthen your garments' ... How do we know how much do lengthen it?

Qur'aan 3359
O Prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the believing women to lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. Allah is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

If u see it in Arabic, then they key of the arabic word on that verse is Jalabibihinna, this is translated as "leghthen their garments" and when u look up the word, it means a long dress or gown. So this is the correct dress code in Islam and shorts contradict the lenght that is prescribed by Allah in Qur'aan 3359.

In those days women hardly wore anything so what if it meant to at least cover your breasts .. what is the limit? No such limit has been suggested by God

Brother, not only on those days but also in these days women hardly wore anything so with logically thinking, do u really think Allah would suggest to "at least" cover your breasts?

Qur'aan 2431
And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and mantain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary-and draw their head-covering over their bossoms...

So, according to the law that Allah gives us for our dress code, we have to

1. Leghten our garments
2. Draw the head-covering over the bossoms (for woman)

No such limit has been suggested by God so I think in the end it depends on us but obviously keeping it in mind that it should look modest!

I have pointed u out the limit that Allah gives us for our dress code. We can not create our own standart based on our own understanding. Modest in people standart doesnt mean modest in Allah standart.

Salaam

Salaam

Could you please vote on which Qur'aan translation is the best and also explain the reasons behind your vote. Thanks.

Salaam,

I vote for Rashad Khalifa because he has the best translation among all and his translation is clear, simple and easy to understand.

Salaam

Salaam Brother Erik,

For me personally, Im not against any hiphop/rap music as long as they dont talk about HARAM subject that we've been discussed. In my knowledge, there's some hiphop/rap music that talk about concious things, truth, struggle and thats the type of hiphop/rap music that we should support.
So personally Brother Erik, Im not against any kind or any type of music, Im just against those HARAM music that they already start make it like "TREND" and the "POPULAR" music among our sociaty.

Salaam

Salaam all...

I just thought I'd give my two cents in this (lengthy...) discussion.

I personally enjoy listening to rap/hiphop (among other genres), mainly because I enjoy the music itself. As for the lyrics of rap... Sure, many rap-lyrics can be offensive and portrait behaviour which are not to strive for in daily life. But then again, you have to have some distance to what you're hearing. I find many lyrics amusing and funny too. From my point of view, having listened to hip-hop for many many years, the majority of things said in these songs are not serious. Even as an attitude, it's not serious. If you listen to hiphop in a more diverse manner, you will find that many lyrics are very political and question behaviour such as degrading women, oppressing each other and so on. To me, I don't take it seriously if a rapper sings about sex and women in one song and in the next demonizes rape, teen-sex, prostitution and goes on with praising his mother in the song after that.

All in all, everything you hear and see is what you make of it. Sure, some lyrics may be offensive, but try to see the big picture. Maybe the rapper (in this case) is being ironic, something which is very hard to grasp from hearing just ONE song. From an outside perspective, hiphop may seem degrading to women, but most of the people I know who are into hiphop and other political music, are the ones who are most aware of injustices and misbehaviour in society, and also the ones who fight these things the most. Many things I hear in this music can be directly related to thing I read in the Quran. But like I said before, everything is only what you make of it, right?

That's all for now... Peace!

/Erik

Salaam Brother,

I think theres nothing wrong with a husband and wife praising another man/woman provided they compliment eachother as well

Could u explain me on what u mean by "husband and wife praising another man/woman" ?
And what u mean by "provided they compliment each other as well" ?

Ok bollywood is becoming too much sex-oritneted but afterall they have to compete with Hollywood.

So u mean, since they compete with Hollywood, its justified their action to become sex-oriented??!??
Brother, in my opinion, I believe greatly that Bollywood can compete with Hollywood even without becoming sex-oriented (westernized). They have great actresses and actors and also great musicians and great people to produce films that can beat any hollywood movie out of the water. They have a great culture, traditional value that we hope to be keep preserved.
I think with all of those, they dont need to be sex oriented just to "compete" with hollywood.

If one of your daughter started to wear tight cloths outside and she told u the reason was because she had to "compete" with her friends (for whatever reason) or just to be like her friends or to blend with her friends, what u gonna say with u being a muslim?

come on are you telling me hte saris actresses wear in india are vulgar? They make her look beautiful and sexy and nothing wrong in that i think!

Brother, what we are talking here is under Islamic value. Our Islamic law dress code are to leghten ur garment and to draw ur head-coverings over ur bossoms. If u judge their kind of dress (the indian actress) with the Islamic value and law that we have, what u gonna say about them then?

Salaam

Salaam brother Imran K,

I agree with u brother, the sex type of music doesnt have any benefit but just lead of to EVIL.
Some people say, its okay to listen to sex type of music to spice up ur sex life (with ur mate (husband or wife)), but what do they mean by this? Do they mean they need another woman's voice in sex to spice up their sex life? Do they mean they need another man's voice in sex to spice up their sex life?
For my opinion, its just too shallow, since a marriage couple sex life can be spice up in much more way than that.
When we do good with each other, when we re being loyal and honest to each other, we when accept our mate sincerly for just the way we are, when we forgive each other, when we spend time to do salaat together, etc, that then right there could effect it because we are bonding with each other. And thats what True Love is.
True sex is not just about physical but its abt deep mental which is the way we feel about each other (in marriage).

Salaam

it's just that when I do something I always ask myself, what benefit does this have? And I see none w/ these. They ONLY lead to evil.

Salaam Brother,

U said this

I mean it doesnt matter if bollywood is becoming more sex-oriented cus its a natural thing

Yes brother, it is MATTER. And when u said its just a natural thing, do u mean its just a natural thing for people to go far from truth? its just a natural thing for people to go astray?
When u said "it doesnt matter", do u mean, it doesnt matter for us the east people to mantain our charity? it doesnt matter for us the east people to mantain our good culture and dress modestly? it doesnt matter to leave a good traditional value that we use to have and become "western"?
Thats surely without a doubt MATTER, brother.

YES religion does say that we should be modest but how are we not modest when we sing about sex etc?

The question is, how are we going to be modest when we LISTEN to those SEX type of music???
How would a man could be loyal when they like to hear other women's sex type of voice???
How would a woman could be loyal when they like to hear other man's sex type of voice???
Im not saying that we can not hear any opposite sex's voice, but what I meant here is in the "SEX" category.
When some musics make sound like woman having sex or like man having sex and we listen to it?
Do u think we can be modest?

If Allah tells us to eat from a good provision, if Allah tells us to subdue our sight to another opposite sex, do u think Allah doesnt tell us to listen for things from a good provision and to subdue the hearing from those kind of music???

Do u think it will be modest for a man to come home from work (while he has his wife all day taking care the house and kids and her body has changed over time after giving some birth) and he relax and listen to the type of sex song (let me give u an example of the lyric)

(woman singing)
"I know u want me, I know u do....
..............................................
Don't u wish ur gf is hot like me,
don't u wish ur gf is freak like me"

And do u think the man that listen to the music doesnt picturing himself with some of sexy women etc??1??
Theres no way he will picturing himself with his wife when his wife is not in a good shape anymore after giving some births, and those music are not incouraging u to remember ur wife either in any kind of fashion.
What about the feeling of the wife? wont she feel offended? wont she feel that she has tried to be the best wife and mom for her husband and kids but what her husband wants is just "a sexy woman"
Dont u think that those kind of things would come out from her mind?
What happen to the value about true love? about sincery love and to love people for just the way they are???

Do u think someone can be real modest when they keep listen to those kind of music??!??

THINK ABOUT IT, Brother !!!!!!!!!

Salaam

peace

i don't see sex as bad.

Salaam Brother,
No, Sex is not bad at all, in fact sex is a beautiful thing. But this beautiful thing only can be shared between husband and wife and its only for them (in private), its not something for u to do it in public, its not something for u to promote it, its something thats natural from Above.
So brother, Sex is not bad thats for sure, but sex is sacred thing that we only can share with our mate (husband or wife) in private.

Salaam

Salaam,
Are all bollywood songs talk about sex?
Some bollywood songs talk about true love, family, parents, country, religi, struggle and etc and I think there is nothing wrong with that.
Again its not about the bollywood song or not, its about the CONTENT. If the content is HALAL like I mentioned above, I think then it will be alright.
But if talking about SEX, bollywood or not bollywood is HARAM.

Salaam,

ps The sadness thing that I notice, the bollywood starts to make more SEX type of movie AND music nowadays
And they will say its the "TREND"...what happen with the east value, religion value that we have? We have enough of those kind of movies over here in HOLLYWOOD...

ok for ppl who listen to bollywood songs .. so bascially all bollywood romantic songs are haram ? I mean if we listen to them then we are committing a sin even if its not affecting us in anyway!
Sex in my view isnt bad .. the problem with us muslims is that we tend to hide these things behind doors !! Ok its private between a man and women but to talk about it isnt bad at all in my view .. we have to open up !!

Salaam Brother,
I think its not about u as a couple listening to songs with "sexual references" together...
We can not even make a song with "sexual references" on the first place.
If Allah tells us to subdue our sight, do u think He would allow us to create a "SEXUAL" song or music for couples.
Its the same way to say that a porn movie is okay as long as we watch it with our mate (wife or husband) but thats not the case. Creating the porn movie on the first place is UNLAWFUL. Thats it.
And do u think when people creating those SEX type of music and those SEX type of movie, they are not creating for marriage couples only. They create it for ALL. Means ur kids would hear it, ur kids would watch it and they will keep those things on their mind etc.
So what do u think about this brother?

Salaam

peace
I agree.
Obviously, if we are talking about commercial music.

Salaam,
Yes Brother, if u creating a sexual song for ur wife or she creates u a sexual song and u sing it together as a marriage couple then it would be fine, because the relationship betwen u two are halal and the sexual thing that u produce its just for u and her (private).

Salaam

peace imran,

a couple, singing songs to eachother or listening to songs with "sexual references" is not wrong. And sexual references don't necessarily mean objectifying women.

Salaam Brother,
I think its not about u as a couple listening to songs with "sexual references" together...
We can not even make a song with "sexual references" on the first place.
If Allah tells us to subdue our sight, do u think He would allow us to create a "SEXUAL" song or music for couples.
Its the same way to say that a porn movie is okay as long as we watch it with our mate (wife or husband) or if we make it for marriage couples but thats not the case. Creating the porn movie on the first place is UNLAWFUL. Thats it.
And do u think when people creating those SEX type of music and those SEX type of movie, they are created for marriage couples only? No, They create it for ALL. Means ur kids would hear it, ur kids would watch it and they will keep those things on their mind etc.
So what do u think about this brother?

Salaam

Salaam

i like to ask you all here, How did Music become HARAM?
Why or how did music become HARAM?

Salaam,
In my opinion Music become HARAM when it convey HARAM topic.
Like so many music topic nowadays especially in west countries, lots of them talking about SEX, SEDUCTION, CHECKING ANOTHER MAN/WOMAN's BODY, etc. So powerful this kind of music and so popular till its like an encouraging thing to do such of sin that most people thing "NORMAL", even music that have sound of woman or man in intimate situation and the sadness thing is that those so-called music is so popular and have been listening by so many people.

Music in my opinion is HALAL as long as it contains good topic and HALAL like music to praise Allah, music about the struggle in life, parents etc
.
But one of my friend asked me, what about Love song? is it HALAL or HARAM?

Salaam