Peace all,
I just published my first book bringing forth relevant verses from the Qur'an regarding Salaat, Zakat, Sujud and also God's proofs regarding His existence and Life after death. You can download it for free on my website willyounotreason.com

Selam,

Thank you and God bless you all for your responses.

There are tonns of discussion on Salat in this forum,
Salat establishing i think was something to do with learning, moral and other good things in this world, with a Imam/teacher/leader involved, is it a ritual Timed?, probably yes as it helps.

Yes, I read most of them, but like I said, I don't remember and I couldn't find that this verse was discussed in this context.

peace,

I guess they could argue the word "du'aa" means "call/prayer/petition" which can be done anytime, and salat is the formalised/special/ritualised prayer.

I guess, so Abraham was praying alone and prayed that he's let to hold the ritualized prayer?

...this ritual cost a lot to muslim nation and have nothing to do with salat of quran..
i never see annyone doing this ritual with happiness but with force or with fear..
but on the other hand people establising real salat have peace of mind and they do it with their own will
( example of real salat) = chapter 107 opposite of those characters... (just feed an orphan and feel the happiness) and then you will establish this habit(salat) as your duty of getting that peace..

i openly admit articles of wakas were the real help for me to understand salat i recommend everyone to read those articles.. well written and explained...

God bless

Hi Imran, I still don't think that those characteristics are the opposite of salat because if it were it wouldn't say

1074 So woe to those who make the contact prayer,
1075 Who are towards their contact prayer absent-minded.
1076 They only want to be seen.

In the PM translation of the reading, not sure why on this chapter the salat - if it's the same word - was translated as contact prayer where everywhere else it was translated communion. Anyway, my point is that salat is not the opposite of the negative characteristics because these people are still holding salat but they are absent-minded and do it only to be seen. That means Salat is what teaches one the good characteristics/values (feeding the poor, treating the orphans good and so on) because those that do salat and do these things are not absent-minded to it and don't do it to be seen.

////////////////////////////

Also there are two different things here

1- Al Salat----Which Qoran specifically mentions as this "specific thing" that Abraham asked for and was establish since as "timed slots" with a preparation -56-.

2-Sala/t .This one without the Al. With a different meaning in other contexts of other verses like "Salawatuka, Salli Alaihim...etc..

So what is this supposedly known thing that Abraham asked for? i.e Al Salat--The Salat-?

This particular Al Salat is "Kitaban Mawkutan- timed- and is prepared for- 56 "Idha Kumtum Ila Al Salat...." .Done with a certain tone... etc What is it?
GOD bless .
Peace.

I agree.

Salam FJ,

Your observation is correct. Salat is not "prayer" as the traditionalists confuse it, but is rather a "link/instruction/communion" with God.

We perform Salat when we need to understand the laws or a specific topic (that is why the Qur'an is read during Salat in an audible voice). It is meant to be a solution to guide us in this world.

Prayer can be done anytime/anywhere and has no form beyond being purely dedicated to God (see the example of the people on the ship in 1022).

It is this confusion that makes people perform Salat as if it is an obligation - when it is actually a tool.

Best times to perform the study/salat dawn and dusk - away from the hustle and bustle of the day. But you can also perform it when you need (such as in the event of a persons death 5106) or at the time of the gathering of people (Jumaa).

Also, I would agree with Good Logic Salat and Al-Salat should not translate the same.

Salat = commune (small "c&quot
Al-Salat = Communion/Instruction/Link.

I agree

Salam and thank you Kaltun,

I think it's wrong to reason that way. We cannot do everything that we are able to do. For example, one can kill but that doesn't mean he is allowed to do. There are special circumstances when one is allowed to kill a life. Similarly, nowadays one can choose the gender of the offspring but that doesn't mean that is allowed to do.

Anyone else who might add to this topic?

Selam All,

Anyone else, please...

The arabic script 2868

The Monotheist Group 28/68 And your Lord creates what He wills, and He selects; it is not for them to select. Glory be to God, He is far above the partners they set up.

The arabic script 3636

The Monotheist Group 36/36 Praise be to the One who has created all pairs from what the earth sprouts out and from themselves, and from what they do not know.

Selam Bagyane,

The verse 2868 is an interesting one but I am not sure it prohibits gender selection. To my understanding, the verse talks about Gods creation. He is the one who selects what he wants to create. We cannot create, and we are not creating any other creation other than what God has already created, which is a human being (boy/girl). And again, we cannot create, the next human (God's selected creation) comes through us as we are only the means through which he/she comes to this life.

To my understanding, man and women are both one creation entity (a human). That is how I understand that we cannot select what creation to create and that understanding seems to be supported by the other verse 3636 that you provided.

Can someone else please help clarify.

Selam to all,

Selam All,

Anyone else willing to take a stab at this?

Selam brothers

I really appreciate your responses.

Wakas,

The reason is family balancing after two daughters and a wife with a higher risk of bleeding because of a condition called placenta previa, which from what I remember was as a result of two c-section deliveries.

The method I believe is IVF/PGD, which after ovarian stimulation, multiple eggs are removed from the mother. The eggs are fertilized in the laboratory using the father's sperm in a technique called in vitro fertilization (IVF). Fertilized eggs are called embryos. As the embryos develop through mitosis, they are separated by sex. Embryos of the desired gender are implanted back in the mother's uterus. - from Wikipedia

May the god guide us to what is best.

God bless you all.

Peace to all,

I could not find these two articles within the article section of the site and I was wondering if there's anyone that can help me locate them

http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/malakat.htm
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/quranic/malak.htm

Selam to all,

2171 And the example of those who disbelieve is like one who repeats what he has heard of calls and cries; deaf, dumb, and blind, they do not comprehend.

2261 The example of those who spend their money in the cause of God is like a seed that sprouts forth seven pods, in each pod there is one hundred seeds; and God multiplies for whoever He chooses, and God is Encompassing, Knowledgeable.

2265 And the example of those who spend their money seeking the grace of God, and to save their souls, is like the example of a garden that is on a high ground and is subjected to a heavy rain, and because of that it produces double its crop. And if no heavy rain comes, then a light rain is enough. And God is Seer of what you do.

1418 The example of those who reject their Lord is that their works are like ashes, upon which the wind blows strongly on a stormy day, they cannot get anything of what they earned. Such is the farthest misguidance.

2843 The example of those who take allies besides God is like the spider how it makes a home; and the weakest home is the home of the spider, if only they knew.

Peace

Selam to all,

"It is HE who has sent among the unlettered a Messenger from themselves reciting to them HIS verses and purifying them AND TEACHING THEM THE BOOK AND WISDOM although they were before in clear error. (622)".

Remember that Allah stated that His Hadith is the Best 3923, now if we look at the above verse through the lenses that you suggest, e.x. to understand it that the God teaches the book, e.x. Quran, and wisdom, e.x Hadith,... to me it looks as if the later (Hadith) is better than the former (Kuran) according to what u suggest and that is not what God wanted us to believe. Moreover, understanding the verse that way is not valid due to the fact that there is no way that other Hadith (full of contradictions) can be better that the True Hadith... suggesting that the wisdom is contained in the hadiths outside Quran is wrong because one might say consciously or unconsciously, and unfortunately it is happening all over muslims, that we have the wisdom (hadith) and thus we have in there everything that we need (no need for Quran)... and all of us know that this is wrong. Hence there is no way that that WISDOM word is referring to some outside sources of Quran.

Peace,

Peace FJ, thanks for the response, I benefited from it and thank you for it. However, I think there is a fundamental point that you all are misunderstanding. I am not questioning the validity of the Qur'an being from ALLAH, (ALLAH forbid) what I am asking you all, is; HOW DO YOU KNOW AND HOW CAN YOU PROVE THAT THE QUR'AN HAS NEVER BEEN TAMPERED WITH OR ALTERED OR ADDED TO OR TAKEN AWAY? HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT AND HOW CAN YOU PROVE THAT? HISTORICALLY?! NOT THEORHETICALLY OR BY BELIEF?! THIS IS WHAT I AM ASKING AND HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR OVER 10 POST NOW, AND NOT ONE PERSON HAS PROVIDE ME WITH ANYTHING CLOSE. BUT I KNOW WHY! BECAUSE IF YOU ATTEMPT TO PROVE IT HISTORICALLY, YOU WILL NEED TO EMPLOY THE HISTORICAL RECORDS FOR SUCH. WHAT RECORDS? THE SAME RECORDS THAT THEY USE TO PROVE THE AUTHENTIC HADITH!

Your next point about looking to the 7th century for everything. I don't know who told you that but I sure didn't. We look to the Companions to find out what the Messenger of ALLAH said and did, as it relates to various acts of worship or social transactions. Why because ALLAH in the Qur'an has commanded us to do so. Obey and follow the Prophet (S), and this is why we look to the Hadith, because contained in them is the guidance of the Messenger of ALLAH (S) as He (S) was guided by ALLAH. What a beautiful Deen.

Ma Salaam

Peace to you Abu Zahrar, I, too, am benefiting from this debate and I thank you for that. I see you keep asking right questions, which have not been answered so far. As far as Quran is concerned most, if not all, people blindly believe on it without doing any verification and without any historical or archaeological proof. If you ask a muslim today why do you believe in Quran he would answer, 'bcoz it's from God', and why do you believe it's from God he would say, 'because they say so and that is why I also believe'. This is blind belief. But Quran passes the test of blind belief because it does not contradict itself. To be honest I don't really believe that the Quran that we have today is the exact intact copy of the Quran of the 7 century. I think there have been added minor things to it such as the numberings for easy of reference but it is the message (the core) that has been preserved... and once again I repeat the question that God Himself asked "if you find a contradiction on it simply do not believe it is from God". Simply, right? Most of the time it is us that make these contradiction without them being so because of the lack of knowledge that we have but they have been always explained away by those who have the knowledge and have reached a better understanding of the Quran. Honestly there it is almost nothing that can be verified 100% to be as the history tell us and we are witness that History has always lied or always told the story of the stronger ones and almost never the story of the week ones. Even the week ones told the story to fit their own political agendas... that is why history is never 100% correct. Hence, nothing is 100% correct in this world.
We all know that not everything has been included in the Quran but the 'path' on how to handle the life on all angles is given there in details and that is what we all need... based on the 'path' we handle the life as it should be rightly handled. We should not expect a guide on how to go out and cut the grass or collect mushrooms the right way or where to find them because that is not what we need. What we need as a guidance is already in Quran, and we all agree on that, don't we?

I hope it helped,

Peace,
FJ

Peace all,

Amal welcome to the forum and I hope you get to learn something.

Peace

FJ

Peace Amal,

welcome

Nice story.

You said that Judaism and Christianity have drifted from the true 'religion', but so is 'Islam'. God's system has been (and still is) corrupted by mankind. All of those (what I like to call) 'sects' have twisted the meaning of real monothe?sm by adding their own ideas and/or opinions about God's system and the majority of people just blindly believes it. The only true way is to just believe in one God/Allah/Jah/the Great Force (all beautiful names belong to the Almighty) and peace/tranquillity.

Don't get to influenced by the opinions of others and find your own way into the Almighty's "system", 'the system of peace and love', like how I like to call it. )

Once again, welcome!

peace

Latifah

Peace,

Taking action is the hardest part because we link to much pain with it and pleasure to avoid it and that is why it is easier just to go on with what the majority believes.
That applies to all walks of life. brickwall

Peace

Nun

Good catch bravo
Most of the time it is this fellow Abu huriara, who has done the most damage to our Deen.

siki

Peace siki,

That is what I also believe about huriara, I think the Deen would have been better and we would not have had these difficulties today had he not taken that task upon himself to collect and add whatever hadith he deemed good or bad according to his criteria.

Samia

Bukhari tells that he once travelled to Egypt especially to collect a hadith from someone. But he then refused to take that hadith because the man cheated his horse with an empty bag to make the animal believe it was full of food and return to him and back to the stable.

If we apply this criterea to bukhari, and we should, then any one hadith that's agreed upon to be a clear cut lie against the prophet should make bukhari untrustworthy, like this owner of the horse.

Peace Samia, very well said. --->
and we should

God bless

FJ

FJ, PEACE

In my last post I explained why I asked you about your parents. It was a test, I think you failed but nevermind that. In your most recent post talked about the Qur'an and it being the only hadith, well i wrote a post to that explaining the difference between a linguistic understanding and a technical one, i hope you can trace the post and see that. Then you mentioned about isnad being nothing. FJ, this was your silver bullet, but only you shot it the wrong way!!! If isnad is nothing, then how can we prove that the Qur'an has remained in tact, unaltered? And please don't tell me through the copies. Please don't say that, because now the question comes, who had those copies? Remember there were NO copying machines and printing presses back then, so if there was a copy, who had it, and what was all the other believers doing in absence of a "copy" of the Qur'an. A copy that was not even ready at the death of the Prophet of ALLAH (S), when ALLAH revealed that Ayah in Surah 5 about the religion being completed. Yes, the entirety of the Qur'an was not in Mushaf for yet. I don't think you have an answer for that. Because if you did, you would not have stated that about isnad. The Qur'an has only been preserved after the promise of ALLAH through isnad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have to take time to seriously learn our Deen, and refuse to keep eating the swine and wine that these people are given you. There is a scholastic reality that comes with any great literary work in history, and you people are in complete denial about it.

Finally, just a question, what do you think the companions of the Prophet (S) was doing all that time they around him. What do you think the Prophet (S) was doing? You don't think that there were other conversations and activities that was going on besides the content in the Qur'an. I mean, as a stateman alone, handling all the cases amongst his people. As a general of an army. You are trying to tell me we have no credible recordings of his behavior and words during all of those 23 years as a Messenger? You people got more talk in 23 hours, this idea is unbelievable!!!

Please, think about that!

Ma Salaam

Peace Abu Zahrar,

We have to take time to seriously learn our Deen, and refuse to keep eating the swine and wine that these people are given you. There is a scholastic reality that comes with any great literary work in history, and you people are in complete denial about it.

Yes, I agree with u that we have to take time to learn our Deen and refuse to take it as such fed to us by whomever even our forefathers and that includes those who wrote the hadith. I know you are going to ask me... 'but they are also the same ones who wrote the best hadith', and my answer to you is this the best hadith has a challenge and that is if you find a contradiction on it then do not believe it is from God and the fact is that there has not been found one so far. Yet there is no challenge for the other hadith and that is why there are so many contradictions on it and even outrageous statements against the prophet.

Finally, just a question, what do you think the companions of the Prophet (S) was doing all that time they around him. What do you think the Prophet (S) was doing? You don't think that there were other conversations and activities that was going on besides the content in the Qur'an. I mean, as a stateman alone, handling all the cases amongst his people. As a general of an army. You are trying to tell me we have no credible recordings of his behavior and words during all of those 23 years as a Messenger? You people got more talk in 23 hours, this idea is unbelievable!!!

Please, think about that!

What they have been doing is their time and whatever it was i am sure it wasn't based on some hadith. The scenario wasn't like this
Hey, we have a problem, x, y are in trouble and we have come to you O companions of the prophet for a solution, what is your decision? O ppl in trouble we heard that this situation once happened before 100 years and the solution is in this hadith..., no, no, no, simply what they did is that they used their own brain as a trusted ppl that they were and before reaching any decision they made sure it does not go against the Best Hadith... simple as that. We can do that today just like they did it during their time.

Moreover, I don't think their time applies today, that is why the Best Hadith is timeless.

Peace

As Salaamu Alaikum;

... Some met wit excellent grades and others did not and all this we have preserved in books till this day. It is an amazing science and created a literary science that has yet to be matched. The science of Isnad is miracle from ALLAH to this Ummah, and we should proud of it as Muslims!!!

And FJ, you ignorant post does not even warrant a response. It show you low spiritual state when you mock at the Deen. But I do have one question for you, and I openly Challenge you on this. You Family Tree, you know your parents and their parents an on like that. If you care about it, can you prove to me and everyone else in this forum that you are actually part of the family? Or do you Believe it BASED ON WORD OF MOUTH, and maybe someone showed you a few pictures from back in the day. Prove that! Provide us with an Isnad of your family that you belong to them, and then question a proven science that has traces all the way back 14 centuries!!! That should keep you busy for awhile buddy.

Ma Salaam

Selam to all,

Abu Zahran, Why should I bother trying to verify who were my great grand parents... i don't see any need for that and whoever were they I will probably know in the afterlife so I rest my case here. And, I am not mocking the Deen I was only mocking the way you and the likes view the Deen, which to me and fortunately to many others, is the main problem of today's Muslims misfortune and probably the main cause and here we are just trying to make a dent to this whole corrupted system.
The whole Isnad is nothing... why bother prove any hadith when your God and my God already pointed out clearly that the only hadith to be used as a source of law is the Quran. Why bother with an Isnad when The God already said to you and me and all of us that the best hadith is Quran... and so many other clear verses that I assume you already know and thus no need for me to mention them.
However, if the hadiths have already been verified, again not 100% because there are many outrageous contradiction, than you and me and anyone else can read it just as one would read any other book.
By the way, how would you answer to the following verse of Quran
This day have I completed for you your religion and completed My favour on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining wilfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Looks like your deen and my deen has already been complete with Quran alone... unless you are compelled then your deen is complete as per Gods words.

God bless

Peace,

What did people use for guidance for 200 years prior to hadith being compiled?

I guess they were just doomed to have no example to follow? hypno brickwall

Just joking

Wait a minute, I almost forgot, they had the best hadith to follow and that is

Allah has revealed the best HADITH, a book conformable in its various parts, repeating, whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins and their hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides with it whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah makes err, there is no guide for him.

Peace
FJ

Peace to all,
Katara,
I wonder how does the free will fit in the whole system of predetermination???
I would say everything is being observed... that would make sense.
Anyway, could you please elaborate a little on that?

Peace
FJ

Peace Jankren,

The following from

http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Dome_Of_The_Rock/hajjdome.html

The Shiite historian al-Yaqubi writing in his Tarikh made an interesting allegation that the Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik built Dome of the Rock to divert the Hajj from Makkah to Jerusalem to outdo his rival Abdullah b. al-Zubayr. He said

Abd al-Malik prevented the people of Sham from the hajj and this is because Ibn al-Zubayr was taking the pledge of allegience from the pilgrims. When Abd al-Malik had found out about this, he prevented them from setting out to Makkah. But the people protested and said "Do you prevent us from doing the pilgrimage to the Sacred House of Allah while it is a duty from Allah upon us ?" He said "Here is Ibn Shihabuddin al-Zuhri narrating to you that the Messenger of Allah said "The caravans should not be set out except for three mosques, the Sacred Mosque, my present Mosque and the Mosque of Jerusalem" stands for the Sacred Mosque for you. And here is the Rock on it is narrated that the Prophet set his foot before ascending to the heavens, it stands for the Kabah. Then he built a Dome on the Rock, suspended silk curtains on it and appointed servants for it. And told the people to revolve around it like they revolve around the Kabah and so it was during the rule of Bani Umayyah.

In the passage of his Muhammedanische Studien, Goldziher puts forward in detail the theory that Umayyad caliph Abd al-Malik, by erecting the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, intended to outsmart his rival Abdallah b. al-Zubayr, who exploited the holiness of Makkah, his capital, for his own political ends. Using al-Ya`qubi's material Goldziher wrote

When the Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik wished the stop the pilgrimages to Mecca because he was worried lest his rival Abd Allah b. Zubayr should force the Syrians journeying to the holy places in Hijaz to pay him homage, he had to recourse to the expedient of the doctrine of the vicarious hajj to the Qubbat al-Sakhra in Jerusalem. He decreed that the obligatory circumambulation (tawaf) could take place at the sacred place in Jerusalem with the same validity as that around the Ka`ba ordained in Islamic Law. The pious theologian al-Zuhri was given the task of justifying this politically motivated reform of religious life by making up and spreading a saying traced back to the Prophet, according to which there are three mosques to which people may make pilgrimages those in Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem.

Goldziher's theory had been adopted, uncritically or with some criticism, by many early orientalists and a few recent ones; some of them are Creswell, Rippin, van Ess, and Elad. Their evidence is largely based on texts of a Shiite historian al-Yaqubi (c. 874 CE) and of an orthodox priest from Alexandria, Eutychius (d. 940 CE). In order to justify their theory they propose that the plan of the rock with the two ambulatories around the rock itself, originated with the liturgical requirements of the tawaf.

The Christian missionaries, as usual, get very excited when they get something with which they can create doubts in the minds of Muslims. One such example is the writing of Joseph Smith where he says

Certainly Muslim tradition suggests the Dome of the Rock may have been the early religious centre for Islam. The caliph Suleyman, who reigned up to 717 AD, went to Mecca to ask about the Hajj. He was not satisfied with the reply, and chose instead to follow 'Abd al-Malik, travelling to the Dome of the Rock.

We are not supplied with references that state the "Muslim tradition" that says that "the Dome of the Rock may have been the early religious centre of Islam" and that the caliph "chose instead to follow `Abd al-Malik, travelling to the Dome of the Rock." As usual, it is left for the Muslims, to supply the uninformed missionary with the missing information.

References

Ahmad b. Abu Yaqub Ibn Wadih al-Yaqubi (Ed. M. T. Houtsma), Tarikh, 1883, Volume II, Leiden, p. 311.

I. Goldziher (Ed. S. M. Stern), Muslim Studies (Muhammedanische Studien), 1971, Volume II, Atherton New York and Aldine Chicago, pp. 44-45.

K. A. C. Creswell, A Short Account Of Early Muslim Architecture, 1968, Librairie Du Liban, Beirut, pp. 17-18.

A. Rippin, Muslims Their Religious Beliefs And Practices, 1990, Volume I (The Formative Period), Routledge London & New York, pp. 53-54.

J. van Ess, "Abd al-Malik And The Dome Of The Rock An Analysis Of Some Texts", in J. Raby & J. Johns (Ed.), Bayt Al-Maqdis Abd al-Malik's Jerusalem, 1992, Part 1, Oxford University Press Oxford (UK), pp. 89-104.

A. Elad, Medieval Jerusalem And Islamic Worship, 1995, E. J. Brill, Leiden, pp. 158-163.

A. Elad, "Why Did Abd al-Malik Build The Dome Of The Rock? A Re-Examination of Muslim Sources", in J. Raby & J. Johns (Ed.), Bayt Al-Maqdis Abd al-Malik's Jerusalem, 1992, Part 1, Oxford University Press Oxford (UK), pp. 33-58.

Joseph Smith's article http//debate.org.uk/topics/isamasih/apr99/archeo.htm

The allegations against the Qur'aan in Joseph Smith's article and some other misconceptions were refuted by Ayman in the following posts in an internet discussion

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/41a51328bdca3c80?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/730fe6e654dd9242?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/51a91e7c64b57fb6?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/221ffb07a5dcb04b?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/ebe1e5f7b9e67f0e?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/170416c761b02771?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/45468e83c8d780b4?

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/msg/4a3c6d6a13f7df1c?

The complete discussion in which Ayman participated can be found at

http//groups.google.com/group/soc.religion.islam/browse_thread/thread/783540f26de114a0/2a42085a49ad9a9a?lnk=raot#2a42085a49ad9a9a

Please also see the following discussion on this forum

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=11105.0

Selam to all,

Brother Tanveer I wonder how do u keep track of all these links.... anytime someone asks a question I see you are always there to provide the links where these questions have been debated b4. How do u do that?

Thanks
FJ

Peace all,

Let me be the fourth... I have already been D

God bless