Peace Wakas, Layth and Ayman,

I appreciate the links and information that all of you have provided regarding "Ar'Rahman". I will look it up.

peace

Peace all,

I also pray that God rewards the maintainers of this website. Free-Minds has served an invaluable purpose to this community; a meeting point for the exchange of ideas; an opportunity for social networking; as well as a reassurance that there are other like-minded people out there.

I completely agree with uq. I'm very glad that this website exists. God bless.

My suggestion for the Second Edition

Can we not translate Verse 1 of Chapter 55, "Ar'Rahman" as the Most Merciful, rather than just "The Almighty"? And not just this instance, other instances in the Qur'an as well.

I fully understand that using the term "the Almighty" or "God" keeps the message in the Qur'an simple and clear. I feel however, that going the extra mile and adding a clearer translation would make for more fluid reading. People who are reading the English translations then may also get a feel for the eloquence in the Qur'an.

peace

Peace all peace

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with jonny_k on all his points. Evolution by natural selection is supported by a lot of evidence.

Please check this short video to have some misconceptions addressed http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vss1VKN2rf8

Peace.

Peace peace

I believe part of the problem lies in the question as it assumes God exists, and by definition, God is the creator/eternal/etc thus the question does not apply if you are accepting such a being exists in the first place. Phrased differently, it is like saying Who created the creator?

Thanks for writing this. I didn't realize that there was a contradiction in the objection to the unmoved mover argument. This clears things up a bit for me. The question, what caused God?, or "who created the creator?" has been on my mind for a long time. Not in any serious way, but I always wanted an answer to this. I think you make an interesting point.

Peace.

Peace all...

bravo

Super informative!

Peace and Amen to that! Much of what you said, fits with what I think about Salat too.

I am curious however, regarding what you, and others, think about the tone of what you say to God during Salat. That is, is it only the Qur'an that needs to be recited in a medium tone (not too loud nor too soft), or does that apply to whatever is being said to God during the Salat.

One more issue..., I do find valuable the idea that Salat is a commune with God. In other words, it is two way, not just one way (like a prayer). So, I'd like to get more information on this issue as well. Specifically however, I want to learn... How do I know that I have received an answer from God, and that it is not something that I have conjured up, unknowingly (I find both the mind and heart difficult to comprehend, especially during Salat).

Any additional info on this would aid me much.

Peace and sincerely

Dear all... peace

I choose "other" for a couple reasons. My conclusion comes from my research on the topic so far.

First, as we know, Salat has been around for a while. Next, human beliefs matter, that is, in the event that they are "true".

Truth need not necessarily correspond to empirical data. In other words, truth for different people can mean different things. However, many of us believe that God is "The Truth", so that's chill.

Sunni's believe, in some hadith or the other, that salaat ought to be performed at various points in time, spread over 24 hours.

For the sake of argument, 'x' could squeeze in more than 3, more than 5, more than technically an arbitrary figure here. As you can see... "communing" with God can take place at any time, in my opinion. Now of course there are certain parameters... we have 24 hours to work with a day, one ought to have the right frame of mind, know what you're saying etc., because recall, it is an honourable practice before God. That's one cent.

My final point however is this the Psalms in the Bible records some of David's songs to the cherisher. He, unexplained says, 'Selah' at certain points during the Psalms. There is an inordinate amount of literature about what 'Selah' "might" mean. Plainly, I think that he was talking about "Salat" in his language (certainly not English, from what I know), but I guess it was similar to Arabic. So it ought to have the same root (which I have not yet researched).

If this is correct, it follows, that Salat can be performed at any time. David, I think, in these Psalms calls on God to help, and from the reading of the Psalms, you can tell that he's in deep deep trouble. Enemy's trying to kill him, evil folks trying their best to nab him and all sorts of (I imagine) horrible things happening to him. That, I think his cries to God resulting in 'Selah'. Perhaps, Salat. Please see my rendition of a Psalm here

http//thepsalms-a-muslim-edition.blogspot.com/2007/05/book-i_08.html

In the English translations, he goes on further to say, "commune with your hearts" when you lie in bed and so on. That feels like his Salat, to me, respectfully.

Peace peace

Ha haa... good intro!

Peace and welcome aboard!

Peace dear readers!

I learnt once, in my Salat, that my condition before God, is helpless, but deserving compassion. By extension, that could be the human condition. There is obviously nothing that I can say in my defence before my creator, for various and obvious reasons.

Having said that..., I have been worshipping God alone for a while now, however, it is only recently that I am beginning to make the distinction between sincere belief in God alone. The experiences, I might add, have been both acutely humbling at times and extremely rewarding often, spiritual and otherwise.

To be sure, I have had several times in my past believed in God alone. There have been times, however, where I have needed reassurance. Regrettably, my impatience, likely, impeded my belief in God alone, independent of the Hadith and other topics discussed at Free Minds. I have before, and pray, going forward, continue to experience the joys of worshipping God alone, the one who cares and supports.

I am sure, many of us have had similar experiences.

Again, I am glad to be at this website, though I find the "truth seeker" index somewhat arbitrary. I just think that could very well be "truth seekers" out there who are already running at the burnout level, but are just not on this platform for discussion, debate and generally enriching each others knowledge, about God, related and other issues.

I still think that it's good, because, I guess the 'truth seekers' at the burnout level, here, have been at this platform for a while now, and hence, have a reasonably good understanding of the purpose and subject matter that this platform has to offer.

Does anyone know if that index is just a function of 'posts' and 'replies'... just curious that's all! hmm ha haa...

Thanks for reading, God bless and best wishes.

peace

Hi Prince - thanks for the welcome and peace!

I had a quick look at those links you suggested. They look good. I still have much to read and learn... and especially from the Quran.

Many thanks and peace

Hi and Peace on you dc2!

a question i wondered too is do you know if the quran was sung when it was first recited?

Well... from historical record we know a few things. The Qur'an is the only text in history, from what I have learned, that has evolved a way of reading or reciting it. In other words, it is not a song, it is like a song... only better. Put differently, your vocal cords better be ready for some of the verses, if you'd realllllly like to pronounce it the way it "ought" to be pronounced in Arabic. Trust me, it's no easy task for even a well trained singer.

There are three, perhaps more, but I only know of two ways of this Arabic vocal recitation. One is the rhythmic recitation, in slow measured paces, that literally feels like the Qur'an rolls off the tougue. This is called 'tarteel' apparently. The other, is each word in Arabic is stretched to its maximum, from what I understand. All methods, ought to fit with our Salat however (not too loud, not too soft... but audible).

The function of the 'tarteel', apparently is to aid native Arabic speakers, and perhaps those who know Arabic, a way of dwelling on the verses as they are being recited. It's pretty wonderful (I just know a small selection of Arabic verses and their meanings), and I like the tarteel "method".

Now, this I learned on a paid for service on a Sunni website. It was enlightening to know that it's the only text in history to have evolved such a mechanism of "how to read a text"... God's text in other words!

The source for the 'tarteel' method in the Qur'an is chapter 73 verse 4. Please pay close attention to the translations of this verse in particular. They're all over the place. wow

Please try this link if it's not on your bookmarks already http//yaqb.org/

Personally, I think the Yusuf Ali translation gets to the semantics the best... do check it out when possible.

Next, for those long stretches of the vocal chords... sample the Qur'an for free at this link

http//www.islamicity.com/mosque/arabicscript/Ayat/1/1_1.htm

This is a Sunni website, however the audible Qur'an thankfully, is free! And the recitation takes some getting used to (your personal preference for voice etc. may differ from mine... which may be a good thing incidentally).

And thanks again for the welcome!

On you be peace and sincerely,

Dear Kurt, Peace on you!

will look forward to hearing more from you and your opinions on topics here

Thanks, and I sincerely look forward to sharing on all the interesting and amazing topics here. I just cant wait to dig in. I still cant believe that this community exists! Ha haa

I appreciate all the support.

Thank you, I must still say, you still write very poetically.

A few words of advise, if I may. Not all of us are on the same frequency, for various reasons, events in our life, the times during the day and so on. I, personally, have found Salat super! I encourage you to read, if you have not already read, Laytth's article on Salat, and the others as well. I have found them very valuable.

I trust your experience, and value what you have shared. David_K, another good person I contacted on this platform told me that patience is key. In my life, that was exactly what I needed to hear.

If things are already falling into place, as the cherisher wills for you, then I am happy. I pray that your efforts are noticed, recognized and I hope eventually, makes a noticeable and positive contribution to the way of life God has ordained for us. Peace on you from the source of it pr Amen!

I will check back to see, if you have typed something new here, however, good bye for now! peace

Hi Rinon, and peace on you brother...

I checked a few entries on your blog, and I must say, if you're patient enough to read them through, those bursts of inspiration are pretty poetic!

The sustainer cherishes both here, and in the hereafter. I liked that line about about the now being on a continuum of the here, and the hereafter. I too have considered that. And speaking of inspirations on your blog, I certainly believe that being inspired and being in awe of our creator is something valuable. Personally, I think Aristotle the philosopher was deeply inspired by truth, that he wrote one of the earliest arguments for the existence of a single God who inspires all that we see!

You said in an entry, re-read the other scriptures. Personally, I like reading the Psalms in the Bible, and I love reading the book of proverbs. They're hard, but beautiful. So too the Qur'an.

I was curious about whether or not you commune with your heart, and observe the salat. If so, I'd love to know how that's going for you.

Peace and even though I'm very new here, welcome

peace

I have an article here on free-minds about the History of Hadith that i think might interest you.

Interest me? Buddy... it changed my entire way of thinking and life... I must say!!! And I am very thankful to my sustainer for showing those critically important articles on the hadith. I was skeptical before those articles myself, as I knew that Bukhari attested to several so called "false" hadith at the start of his collection. And the sheer number ought to been evidence enough. But thanks, I'll try and give your article a read, if I have not done so already. yes

In a way, I still have soooooo many hadith almost ingrained in my way of thinking that I had a lot of unlearning to do. That took a while, and there are still days I think about the hadith, not as a way of life, but with the lens of philosophy. Especially, ethics or moral philosophy normative prescriptions! I never write about it, because what I have found with God alone is something so "freeing" and unique! I feel in tune with so many prophets and it's hard to explain.

In any event, I'd like to write about the moral philosophy about hadith someday, unless God wills otherwise, because I like, and find it challenging, to address secular audiences. And, I would like to draw more Sunni's to this way of life (the 'deen' of cherisher or "Allah or God" alone, in other words), as it is extremely consistent with Islam, which they, and I earlier, claimed to adopt. Islam has just gotten a whole lot better for me... I pray that it does for the rest of my family as well.

Ha haa, and yes, I'm a fan of both the beauty and the sound of nature first, then comes the rest. Too many to list actually, though I like the philosophically inclined tracks and tunes. So, some hip-hop (like OutKast), I still listen to rock once in a while, a tune or two from Pink Floyd, Nirvana etc., but that's rare now. I practice tai-chi, so I have recently started listening to soundtracks that fit with it. So, tunes from the movie Hero with Jet Li and so on...

Many thanks for the welcome! I appreciate it.

On you be peace peace -) and God willing we stay in touch.

Dear David, hey and peace on you!

Thank you for your post! Sincerely. And for sure, I've learned too, that languages can either evolve or go extinct. English is constantly evolving (Blog, McJob, etc.), however several languages around the world are facing a hard time, because there are a fewer and fewer people who use and practice it. Perhaps, because English and our computers etc., are even at the computer language level (syntactical level), in English very often. Also, I know in India at least, English is a means for additional income. So, other languages here, start being ignored and people are unable to relate to certain concepts in the 'mother tongue'. That is why, I try to preserve, if possible, the semantics or meanings which lie in the language of "origin". It's usually quiet spectacular. Greek and Latin, I learned aid reasoning through a host of subjects very easily, simply a function of the language. I wish I knew them! hmm Hence, Arabic and others are important.

In fact, the lord choose Arabic for the Qur'an because it is, perspicuous (very very clear) according to a Yusuf Ali translation of the Qur'an.

At the same time if we see the usage of the word allah from the other side, it can both negative. Because some christians and hindu's and jews and people from other faith are probably more familiar with the word "god", so they will like this better.

This is actually my opinion as well, very accurate in my experience! Ha haa... So we're faced with a dilemma of some sort. Because we're both right in a way, and further, we are for sure living in a secular world, some parts more secular than others.

I do not want to go off topic, however, from our discussion, I can surmise as follows Since we live in a world with various faiths', it's best to keep the peace. That is, by expressing ourselves, perhaps, in ways that are comfortable to peoples' understanding (thanks for that point). This, I believe will take effort, however, opening lines of communication, as we agreed, may actually pay our secular world good dividends in the long run. Aiding the truth seeker, is always cool, especially one looking for more information about the truth in our way of life (which is "Islam&quot. I'm almost, if not, sure that you agree! D

Last point, maybe we ought to use the word "Allah" more often in English, so that it too gets a more refined entry in our dictionaries, because the semantics or meaning is pretty unique, along with several other Arabic ways to call on God... like, Ar'Rahman... Ar'Raheem... and so on (both are mercy, Rahman is the superlative, and Raheem, from what I learned, is less intense). But, God is Ar'Rahman 'nir' Raheem, that's much more mercy than we can deal with! Ha haa D

Just to put things in perspective, the entry by AceOfHearts points to the Qur'an and believers who have "greater LOVE" for God, our cherisher, sustainer. For, the Lord (Allah), in other words.

Peace! peace

Please email me anytime, I'm sure we have lots to share.

Hi David and I wish you peace!

Um, first, I'm glad that you're a logic kind of person. I love it myself. bravo Thankfully, I'm no Sunni anymore, and that's thanks to both my creator and the efforts of free minds. Really!

Anyway, the issue for me is this

Wouldn't it then be better to either write all the words as english in article about Islam, rather than writing all the words except one word in arabic

True. No doubt. However, again, I offer for consideration, not everyone knows English. That is, some know more, and some less. Place them on a continuum. And not just English, pick any from your list of known languages. What I'm getting at here is, it's better to open lines of communication rather than have an exclusive club. That is, for our way of life to spread, it would aid readers to get transliterations in addition to the semantics of various lessons in the Qur'an. I hope you agree.

Also, as you know, English is an evolving language. "McJob" was not a word, it is now. And the word "Allah", is literally a transliteration of the Arabic word, In English we spell it as 'Allah'... that's arbitrary technically. Therefore, there ought not to be any issue, so long as we're having a rational exchange in text, in using the word Allah in English. Though, I agree with you fully, because I too see simplicity and clarity as being appealing in a certain way. My concern is the gender associated with the 'term' god. And, please, lets not talk about the capital 'G'. As you know, the sound of the word 'Allah' does not possess this gendered conception. Sorry, it looks like I took my feminism classes a little too seriously . -)

I pray I was clear. And, I sincerely would be happy to learn more from you about writing in "English" per se, but I hope you understand that it's difficult for a constantly evolving language. And David, I sincerely do not mean no offend. Please pardon my style that's all... still new to this. peace

Now, I like saying "Alykum As'salaam", which I learned conveys, upon you be peace from the source thereof - The Arabic language has this wonderful quality, unlike English, which I like to share. And again, I fully acknowledge what you've said... Peace!

Dear AceOfHearts, I hope you don't mind me answering, I just couldn't resist.

Hi David, and Peace on you,

I got one question. Why do you use the word Allah, and not write God instead?

Um, there is a good answer that I offer for your consideration. I do not know Arabic, just a little, but actually not even the basics. I like languages, however. I learned about the word Allah from a popular Sunni website and discussion, before I got introduced to Free-Minds.org.

You probably know this, but put simply, the syntax and semantics of the word Allah is a combination of ?al? for ?the? and ?illah? for ?entity of worship?. So, Al?illah can mean ?the god? or even 'a god', but Allah in Arabic means ?THE god?. Put another way, the difference between ?Al?illah? and the word ?Allah? is that ?Allah? is an overarching absolute, as in ?THE God? or "THE Lord". The semantics can also specifically be conceived of as, "THE ENTITY at the RECEIVING END of all worship". I too use the word Allah, when referring to God, or phrases such as 'the most merciful', 'the supreme in grace', and so on to avoid the gendered aspect of the English word God. Though, I see no problems using it at all. Personal preference . We are, after all, urged by Allah in the Qur'an to call on the lord God by the most beautiful names!

Plainly, Allah means THE 'God', and not just ?a? possible god.

tempt Ha haa, so much for a word in a secular world! D

Thanks! I got my answer here, on this topic!

Love for Allah by AceOfHearts.

That works just fine for me, though I always welcome clarifications!

peace

Hi again,

I am very thankful to God for bringing me to this discussion forum. My journey here, I feel, took longer than it ought to have... but, I guess learning to humble myself before my cherisher and sustainer took a while... and, in a way, still continues. I am thankful in any event.

I was born a Muslim, did not practice Islam, in a meaningful way anyway, for over 22 years of my life. Then, I got into Islam. Now at 26, I can say, boy, was that a crazy ride. Well worth it!

I was a Baptist Christian for two years before those four years that changed my life. I reside in India presently, however, when I was in Canada, I got into Sunni Islam as that was the dominant practice of many Muslims at my university, and technically, since I was born into a somewhat "Sunni" home, I didn't mind. However, by the grace of my cherisher, I fell in love with philosophy, or the love of truth.

Allah, in the Qur'an, from what I understand, asks to be called on by the most beautiful names. From the Sunni tradition, Al'Haqq... or the truth, is just one of the names I learned. And, the Qur'an is one lovely text, because the English translations are still well reasoned and the translations still contain profound arguments (I cannot read and hardly know any Arabic, so I still have to explore the nuances of the Qur'an). For me, my love for philosophy, turned into love for our creator.

It was through a lot of "googleing" and other crazy means that I "stumbled" upon free-minds.org. That added a whole new dimension to my search for meaning towards the somewhat unreasonable skepticism towards our cherisher. The impetus, from what I recall, for all of this, was my paster in my 'modern' Christian days. Unexplained, he turned into a highly skeptical agnostic, as if overnight. Philosophy, Aristotle's in particular, and a host of other 'ilm' or knowledge, gave me some grounding and paved my path to Islam. peace

Kudos to the free-minds.org team, brothers, sisters, the works! Sincerely!

I must say however, that some articles need a little bit of polishing and some need rewrites, as I have become very particular about clarity and the shortcomings of the English language.

Please do see my blog, and if you decide to, I request that you pardon my errors since much of what I've written is somewhat sophomoric, however, there are a few entries that I feel are well thought out. It documents my progress, in a way..., and it's got a link to free-minds! bravo.

I only used the free minds website as a reference source, for instance, it was only today that I learned how to use this platform... ha haa . So I can't wait to dig in and see what this forum has to offer for consideration. So there you go!

Please pardon my long intro, I am just too thrilled. Ha haa

Alykum As'salaam or Peace on you from the source of it!