Asalamu alaikum,Man,I was just sitting here,about to reply to Sarah about something in another thread,and then it was JUST announced on My local news that this dude Just stole a city van and ran down like 4 different people before getting caught just a little while ago ...,Let us pray that this guy does not say that He did it for Islam..The media would have a field day with this.......Anyways...Salaams

T'ung tien (published 801) "In 801 Tu Yu presented his encyclopaedic administrative tract, the T'ung tien, to the throne. He had begun it as long ago as 768 while serving at Yang-chou on the staff of his patron Wei Y?an-fu, military governor of Huai-nan. Tu Yu was a political thinker on a grand scale, and this original draft dealt with the whole history of human institutions from earliest times down to the end of the reign of emperor Hs?an-tsung (712-56). Over the years he continued to add material on new and important developments. Large sections of the work were not written by Tu Yu himself, but were taken over integrally from the Cheng tien of Liu Chih (d. ca. 760), a political treatise in historical form, and from the K'ai-y?an li, the official ritual code completed in 732."----Tu Huan's Ching-hsing chi says Another name is Kufa (Ya ch?-lo). The Arab king is called mumen, and his capital is located at this place. Both men and women are handsome and tall, their clothing is bright and clean, and their manners are elegant. When a woman goes out in public, she must cover her face irrespective of her lofty or lowly social position. They perform ritual prayers five times a day. They eat meat, fast and they regard the butchering of an animal as meritorious. They wear silver belts about the waist from which they suspend silver daggers. They prohibit the drinking of wine and forbid music. When people squabble among themselves, they do not come to blows. there is also a ceremonial hall which accommodates tens of thousands of people. Every seven days the king comes out to perform religious services; he mounts a high pulpit and preaches the law to the multitudes. He says "Human life is very difficult, the path of righteousness is not easy, and adultery is wrong. To rob or steal, in the slightest way to deceive people with words, to make oneself secure by endangering others, to cheat the poor or oppress the lowly?there is no sin greater than one of these. All who are killed in battle against the enemies will achieve paradise. Kill the enemies and you will receive happiness beyond measure."

Asalamu alaikum every one,on a lighter note,If any one whom happens to be home right now,and whom would like to watch the old "Controversal" Movie "The Message",which is about the rise of early Islam,it is about to be shown on 'Discover Islam televison"In just a little while here. winkSalaams all

Asalamu alaikum,I have some questions.. How old is every one whom amongst you were born into a Sunni Family?Who are the converts? and for the converts,how long has it been since you converted?Who speaks arabic fluently?For those whom do not speak arabic,are there any amongst us whom are learning to read/write arabic? are there any people in here whom have NOT totally rejected the hadeeth, but would rather study the issue In-depth , before personally deciding what role it should play in the religion? Who in here,have any real understanding ,what-so-ever,about the science of hadeeth --Salaams

Asalamu alaikum,I was just curious,as to what some of your thoughts are on the subject of Pre-destination..Just curious..Salaams

Asalamu alaikum,Yea I just have a question,does any one know where I can get a FULL on-line english translation of the refutation of Islam which was written By "Saint John of Damascus".....Salaams

Asalamu alaikum,I have a question,for Albion and others whom may believe that the Gospels and such are correct.You seem to say you have some how determined their authenticity,and if this is the true case,then please ,If you might,enlighten me by reading the following and making sense of it all,as I wish to know how you have done it,and what is your postion on the following issueOk,lets get started,here are some basic factsNot all ancient Judeo-Christian texts made it into the Christian Bible. These ancient texts are called "outside books," "extrabiblical books," or "noncanonical books."

CHRISTIAN CANONS EMERGED THROUGH A COMPLEX PROCESS in which some books were "chosen" and others were left out. A tradition of use, authority within the communities, antiquity or apostolicity, and orthodoxy were factors in deciding which books were "in" and which were "out." There are DIFFERENT biblical canons. For example, Roman Catholics have a larger canon than Protestants. This means that Roman Catholics have some inside books that Protestants consider outside. In terms of the Old Testament, Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Ethiopian Orthodox, and other Eastern Christians claim more "inside books".

The books of the "second canon" are considered "inside" by Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, and Ethiopic Christians; the latter group adds even more books beyond the deuterocanonicals. Protestants consider the same books "outside" however they give the Apocrypha high status, considering them valuable for instruction and spiritual edification. Some canons are smaller than the Protestant Bible; others are larger

The smallest Bible is claimed by the Samaritans, who recognize only the first five books of the Bible (the Pentateuch).
The largest Bible is that of the Ethiopian Orthodox church, which has 81 books

The Ethiopian Orthodox church's narrower Old Testament canon includes the books of the Hebrew Bible, all of the Apocrypha, and "Jubilees, 1 Enoch, and Joseph ben Gurion's (Josippon's) medieval history of the Jews and other nations." 2

HERE ARE SOME REASONS WHY CERTAIN BOOKS FAILED TO MAKE THE CUT1]Some ancient texts were considered authoritative but were dropped before the canon was "closed."
2]Some well-regarded books were written too late and/or not believed to be apostolic, so they were not included. Nevertheless some outside books, such as the Didache, are as old or even older than some of the books that made the New Testament.
3]Other books were accepted by some Christian communities but not others. Sometimes
they were labeled "heretical" by more powerful Christian groups like Rome
they were not popular or known well enough by Greek-speaking Christians
Still other books never came close to making it "inside.". In addition to heretical books that were excluded, other books were considered to be too outrageous, even though they were very popular.
4]A number of books were lost or destroyed.<<<<---END---OK,we just went over some basic facts ,And I would appreciate it if you could possibly answer the following questionsAs we can see,different sects/denominations use different canons,some less,some more.Which sect has the correct canon?Are they all correct?What do you think about the Ones which failed to make the cut altogether?Should we suppose that they were all indeed false as determined by the methodology/science of the compilers of the bibles?
Gee,I just got an idea,If we accept the modern-day Bible/Torah,why not then accept the ahadeeth as well ?They too are full of words attributed to a Prophet,and are compiled,accepted,rejected using a methodology/science as wellAlso,here is a question which is not based on this articleHow do you explain away the REAL,PROVEN mistakes and errors -----------Well,Anyways these are just a FEW of the many questions I have,if you will answer them-Thanks..Salaams-

Asalamu alaikum,I was just curious..After reading many of the various views in this forum,it seems to me that ,a God alone society would basically be like the modern day United Snakes..Because a good majority of people in here,seem to think that nearly everything is halal and almost nothing is haraam..America,actually,was more conservative in its early beginnings,than what the ideal nation would be for some of you,or at least it seems that way,I mean,let me remind you,that,America was indeed ,I guess you could call it a "morality based nation' to an extent,however,thanks to democracy ,as time has gone by and the morals and values of the people have eroded,so has the quality of this nation,it is a bit of a modern day "sodom and gomoraah',for today nearly every thing is halal and is based on the whims of the people .Isnt this basically what many of you want..A full democracy with no real sensorship?--Would the "modesty rule ' be enforced or would we leave it up to personal choice and have half naked women walking throughout the streets,would drinking be ideally banned or would there be bars through out the cities?If open homosexuality were to be tolerated by such a nation,there would then be no-doubt predominantly gay bars and dance halls in existence ..Im not seeing any real difference between what a so-called "God alone nation' would be and America..In order to make it a real God alone nation it seems that there would have to be ,I guess you can call it a "watered down version" version of the sharia lawWhat are you thoughts about this?..Salaams

Asalau alaikum,Lol I aws just browsing the internet,and came across an article written this european kafr,and at the end he concludesQUOTE"Through serious and genuine scientific enquiry, the validity of the Hadith and Sira of Islamic tradition has been eliminated. It can be shown that neither Mecca nor Badr existed at the time, and thus all the stories of Muhammed?s prophetship and battle victories are just so much invention. It can be demonstrated, indeed, that there never was such a man at all. By systematically translating the Qur?an. even the meaning of the name, Islam, can be shown to have been corrupted. and the historical and theological background that made the Qur?an possible demonstrated. The importance of the Jewish community in this development has set researchers on tracing the path to the true identity of the Quranic author, a man who was clearly of exceptional talent, energy and insight. In fact, Br. Bruno?s work is spurring research which is showing that Islam is a fact, because the Islam of the Qur?an is a fact; but it is now becoming increasingly evident that the Islam of today is an illusion in the sense that all that it truly holds in common with the outstanding genius of the Quranic author is the name of the religion and a mutilated understanding of his powerful book. This is the contradiction become the paradox mentioned at the beginning of this article. END QUORE...Hmmmmm..Wanna read it? http//www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/3543/Islamgn.htm

Asalamu alaikum,GOOD MORNINGevery one..Yes I was just taking a quick peep,and noticed dhulqarnain's request to know who exactly are the Quran people whom also do not perform the salat..And I too have a questionPersonally ,I am leaning towards a 'Quran Only" Position,with "ritual salat" included as a part of the relgion.I am sorta viewing itas something which was taught to the early believers and has continued on up until today.Are there any others whom feel that ritual salat is a part of Islam?Just wondering..Salaams

Asalamu alaikum,Lo,I admit,I have yet to fully embrace the "Quran only position",HowEver,this is funny,This guy asks us "How will we know, how to beat up our wives, without the ahadeeth?",HA ha HA ha,not the very best "pro hadeeth"argument their Brother..READ QUOTE I gave an example to one of those people on how will they react if they get in a quarrel with their wives. The Qur'an does not deny domestic violence. But how will those people beat up their wives? Would they do it with a twig or with a nunchaku or a baseball bat? Once they throw the Sunna' away, they get preyed upon very easily by Muslim critics. Any Muslim-hater will easily say, "Hey look, you people beat your wives!" And the anti-Hadith sectarian will not know how the Prophet taught us to react when treating our wives during anger. If he replies back and says, "No, but we use the miswak", they will be told "But that's not in the Qur'an, and you said that ahadith are false." ----END QUOTE,ha HA ha

Lol,I like this forum,I've got a few days off here and had actually intended to just log on for a minute and leave,and found my self glued for a good while today,for there is so much to debate,so much to challenge in here-Salaams

Asalamu alaikum,I understand why you have abandoned the ahadeeth,however ,Not one individual can say for sure ,that this vast body of work is 100% totally false,for that would not be sensible,Just as ,My saying the entire body of work is 100% correct ,would not be very sensible..which,leads me to ask,why not simply use the ahadeeth as documentation of the Salat,i.e,for the times,form ,etc etc,for,I can hardly believe that out of the hundreds of ahadeeth describing the prayer,that each and every one is incorrect.Many are in agreement.Doing the as-salat 5x dailyin the" traditional way" just seems right.Indeed, The lazy and more worldy-- may detest it,however,for those whom still do so ,in the correct frame of mind,I ask youDo you not feel comforted and spiritually refreshed after the salat?-Salaat

Asalamu alaikum,I reverted to Al-Islam some years ago,and last year I ran across this site and began to read and basically I seen here that there are apparently many others whom are at least skeptical of the authenticity of ahadith and some whom have actually abandoned it al- together..And some how,lol,I was immediately sucked in for all of it made so much sense but then I began to rethink this position for a number of reasons and went back to the sunnah/ahadith ,for it is all I have been taught since embracing al-Islam and had become comfortable to me,and also due to some other factors..See,I began my Islamic education back when I reverted by reading books By Dr.Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips and also that by Shaikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahhab ,and now,to sum it all up, I am a salafee,or,lol,shall I say a VERY-moderate salafee- for the very fact that I am even entertaining such deviant ideas as that which is in this group testifies to my being moderate,lol,..However ,I am in the habit of using my mind---thinking---however,given the historical evidence and taking into account the fact that many ahadeeth contradict the Qur'an and defy even science and logic , I am finding it increasingly hard to accept many ahadeeth for it is at odds with my common-sense..I have studied in our salafee study groups the science of ahadith and there are some minor falws,amongst others in other areas.,.So,that s why I am here,yet I have not entirely abandoned the ahadith for I wish to continue my studies in this area before I make a decision...I have already,through my previous studies ,noted some clear ahadith contradictions,however I would like to see more if anyone has such a compilation..For me it is very important that I make 100% sure this is the truth,because,Lol, as you guys probaly know,the salafees,lol DO NOT TAKE SUCH A THING LIKE THE ABANDONMENT OF AHADITH VERY LIGHTLY --to say the least.They would within a matter of days abandon me altogether and as it was a,I had a hard time fitting in when I first reverted ,thus it took me forever to get into the "inner circle",and now it really sucks,for If this path which you guys are on is in fact true,DAMMIT,I willl have to start over ALL OVER AGAIN ...Soooo,lol,I want to really study this issue in every way,and I would appreciate it if some one could refer me to more proofs and the such....Salaams,I will go now,sorry for talking your heads off....