Yeh yeh, the same old lame excuse

well, just bloody tell your children to be tolerant, not bloody lioe and deceive them?

and why bloody you want the children to be tolerent with the queers only?

where is teaching the tolerance regarding the uglys, the disabled, the fat, etc etc

sounds like you are one of those parents who should not have children from the first place

such a shame

PS you can buy all these books that are nothing but lies to your own children, dont bloody force it into oublic schools to polute my chidlren innocent minds

Thats your assumption that its own purpose is to be tolerant of gays only. However, i think its more easier to find tolerance of those kinds of people than with gays. Especially with parents and adults such as yourself who are continually spouting hate and condemnation of a whole group of people, that have done nothing evil to you or your family.

Where are your facts of gays ruining society?

I was born in a conservative, Baptist, Military family.... like the "gay disease" would reach me, not to mention that you are a bigot because u bring NO FACTS!

There are many things in this world that can hurt your children, but teaching your children to at least TOLERATE people who have a different belief system is not evil nor too much to ask. Plus it seems you are doing enough polluting your kids with hate and intolerance, maybe your own parenting skills should be questioned. Please go read the Quran and tell me where it is ok to go point out what YOU believe to be a sin, and then treat the people the way you do.

Also whats with the militant gay thing? My being is NOT centered on my sexuality, its centered on my relationship with Allah. I am always a muslim first, so thus what u think and judge is of no consequence to me

"O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors." (4911)

Oh please,
Someone enlighten me why Homosexuals are such a great danger to society?

P.S. Books teaching children to be tolerant is bad....... wow, you sound just like some christians who were using the Bible to justify seperating blacks and whites, also illegalizing interracial marriage until 1996

Um unless you stalk me and right down everything I do, say, think, and feel you really cant judge me. Nor are you Allah, who is the perfect judge.

"You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth carefree. GOD does not like the arrogant showoffs." (311

"O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful." (4912)

"O people, We created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant." (4913)

I am not a militant homosexual, i just argue people who try to spread incorrect information about things they dont know. Though by your arrogant greeting, i doubt it is possible for you to be open minded and possibly accept your wrong.

P.S. Yeah also about the whole scriptures support your view..... well they dont, because the Jews (who know the Torah) say thats its ok to be gay, the NT is mostly made by Paul and Jesus who was a prophet didnt say anything about it. Not to mention that the Torah and NT are both corrupted, so yeah. why dont you bring some facts for debate

As-Salaam Alaykum,
I would like to apologize for my outbursts and hostile attitude. I sometimes get very aggrivated when people generalize homosexuals and drop up conclusions and facts from these generalizations.

But to answer Angel's question, i interpret 2755
2755 "You are approaching the men out of lust instead of the women! No, you are an ignorant people!"
I see it as that these men were straight, but they only slept with men out of lust, instead of a desire for love and being in a relationship. Like someone mentioned earlier, there is no mention of gay love in the Quran.

Now for Zenji's questions

1. I prefer men in the state that i find them more attractive and would rather be in a relationship with them, but i am a virgin. I wont have sex until im married or in committed relationship with God as our base and guide

2. You misunderstand me, i am telling you how i feel so that people can understand my pov and where I am coming from. However, since I have never had sex, all I can tell u is my feelings and emotions, which shouldnty be banned from public. I am talking about knowing where the line is and not to cross it

3. The thing is that they knew God was behind them and they were persecuted for religious reasons. However, homosexuals are attacked on who they are, and are constantly told by almost every major sect that God considers them an abomination. Plus why would anyone turn to something that keeps on hurting them (aka faith/religion). Alhamduillah, I was lucky to be guided by Allah, but alot more homosexuals arent able to here that the religion of Islam accepts them

4. I would never say its ok to break other sins, i am just saying that Homosexuality is not the greatest sin and should not be treated as if it is, meaning to stop targeting a whole group of people

5. Ok yeah that was a bad example lol. But still its hard to explain how I feel to someone who doesn have anything similar to it

ok now that I have cooled off and now back in my sane mind lol, let me make this a lil bit more clearer.

I did not choose to have these FEELINGS (aka love, wanting to be with them in relationship, things that people do when in love). If I was given a chance to be "normal" I wouldnt do it, because its not who I am, its like asking someone to give up their favorite sport or something they love. But trust me, NO ONE, would want to choose to be this way. With always trying to find someone who has good morales, great personality, and basically good match, and most important swings ur way (last part is kinda hard lol)
I try to be a good muslim, i try to follow God and his commands, but i mess up, who hasnt? As far as I know, the ONLY unforgivable sin is shirk. I believe that there is NO God but Allah, and He ALONE is worthy of worship and praise. I try to follow the Quranic laws and keep on the Straight path (which doesnt mention anything about homosexuality).

So besides you guys trying to point out what YOU think is wrong and blaming everything on us for whats wrong with society why not follow this verse
"That is because God was not to change anything He bestowed to a people, unless they change what is in themselves. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable." (The Message 853)

Which I interpret as, deal with your own problems and leave other people alone. God will lead them, and I am believer. If I am wrong, then I pray God forgive me. But I doubt God would want me to live a life of painful loneliness and not knowing what its like to have True Love.

WHY THE HELL CANT U BIGOTS ACCEPT THAT YOU CAN BE GAY AND A GOOD MUSLIM!!? >

1. If you use the argument that anal sex shouldnt be used, then i could live with that. There are other things that you can do, the sole purpose of sex isnt just procreation, or else you would have to tell all couples who cant have children to stop having sex. Sex is also used for bonding and pleasure.

2. Lust is lust, there is rarely any emotional feeling like love ever involved. Being Gay/Bi means you are able to LOVE and be in a RELATIONSHIP with someone of the same gender. SO DONT EVER COMPARE ME TO SOMEONE WHO IS A PEDOPHILE WHO BEASTIALITY! That is very demeaning and can not be proven, it just shows your hatred and close minded ness

3. I am a Bi muslim, meaning that I can love anyone for WHO they are, not just because of their looks. I do prefer men, and feel that my soul mate is one. What I do in private will be none of your business, as should be with everyone's sex life.

4. Stop blaming gays for making society go down the whole. It is honestly the lack of morals and faith in America. It is because TEENS are now having sex, because fathers arent staying home with the pregnant mothers, because we have no idea what TRUE LOVE is. What happens to family units (aka mother and father) is not to be blamed on the gays.

5. The problem with the gay society, can be blamed on people like yourselves. The ones who keep on rejecting them and making them feel as though not even God cares for or loves them! Even if you think it is wrong, you should never hurt them or make them feel like crap. Most gay teens who grew up religious (Abrahamic traditions, meaning anti-gay) usually commit suicide because they dont know how to "fix their problem". The non religious stay away because they are rejected, but because they turn from God, they turn to drugs, alcohol, and promiscuity to get rid of the pain of emptiness which only God can fix

6. Lust in general (when not directed at the mate) is bad. However, i do plan on loving whoever God has picked out for me, be it male or female.

7. Johnny K, stop this whole BS about trying to protect the women from STD's and that gay men are evil and are out to kill everyone. The Black commuinty and Africans have the highest victims of Aids, and they are straight. So sexuality doesnt mean that u are at higher risk of disease, your lifestyle (aka promiscuity, drugs, partying) raises or lowers ur chances.

I did NOT choose to be Bi and find men attractive, hell I was raised BAPTIST with a Black father and white mother who are theologians. I almost killed myself because i thought God could never love me for what I was. I tried to change, but I couldn't. So its either I live a lie or i be who I am, so i chose to be me and I am happy. Finding the real Islam has brought so much peace to me. I am still a virgin, I keep away from the party scene, i look for good personalities in people, and I try hard to be a good muslim. SO DONT YOU F***IN DARE TRY TO JUDGE ME ON MY SEXUALITY, OF WHICH YOU DONT KNOW!

we will have to agree to disagree, and note u cant use the bible, because that is a book tainted by men who also oppressed women.....
Anyways, dont try to punish people for a crime that doesnt hurt anyone outside of their relationship, because almost every point you made can just be put on straight people as well, not to mention huge biased. If you would like, i will have a moral argument with you.

Also u can be bisexual and not sleep around like me, i prefer men, you women.... the dolphin thing..... i have no idea what to say. But its ok, and you are not messed up, because u seem to be able to control urself, so u must assume other homosexuals control themselves as well.

Honestly there is no way i can see how Homosexuality will ruin society.....

1st off, homophobia and bigtory are learned aspects that society and get rid of. Secondly, i dont feel that its wrong, i use to, when i was a christian and almost committed suicide because i couldnt change, even tried one of those "be straight" things. I am who God created me to be, let me live life to the fullest. Gays havent done anything to you or society, in fact i think we are missing the blessings of the gay community by continually trying to bash them and make them feel worse than alcoholics, hence why a lot of gay teens commit suicide and others go into drugs and alcohol.
Mainly because people like you, feel it necessary to keep telling them that they are living in sin, that they are disgusting people who have polygamous sex, have no morals or values, and this is all based on how you first greeted me. There is no sin in loving someone of the same sex, i find that it has many benefits. Yes i prefer males, but its not like i can turn everyone bi (though sometimes i wish).
I beg you to let go of your generalizations of Homosexuals and actually talk to one. I see myself as a muslim who tries to live a good life and always trying to be better, but hey I am human and mess up. In the end, even if it is a sin (which it isnt), I doubt Allah would judge me harshly, since there are much greater sins. Anyways, yeah, those generalizations can and will get you in a mess, so just be careful P

If I follow in love with a man, then i will be in a monogamous relationship with him, and find a way to marry him. If I fall in love with a woman then i will marry her. I just marry someone who I love and loves me in return.

Trust me, sex isnt just about procreation, it deals with pleasure to. Yes, gay couples dont get the pleasure of bearing their own children, but we also have less burdens. So its a give and take, its also called population control.

I dont know who you have met or what you have seen. But most gays that i know personally and have talked to, are conservative good people, that werent molested or chose their attraction.

But i accept your apology and forgive you

JK- Male Bisexuality is even more dangerous than mere male hs. I just hope you didnt practice sex with men and then again with women. In acse you did i ask you have you even slightly considered that your passing harmful diseases from your male partner to innocent women and the children she might bear? Has this thought ever come into your mind? Please be honest? GOD Bless!

Exscuse me, but i am a virgin. Has the thought that you are a homophobic bigot, that generalizes anyone who is bisexual or homosexual ever crossed your mind?

Bisexual means that I can love either a man or a woman you dimwit. It doesnt mean i sleep around, I have Morals! I would never sleep around, i dont meaningful relationship, and i am not diseased, unlike you who is full of hatred

I am deeply insulted that you just take one part of what i said and accuse me of such horrible things, you dont even know me, and you assume i slept with a man and woman, got diseased from the man (like women dont have them), and then passed it on to children >

Brother that deeply hurt me, how could you pass judgement on me like that? '(

Maybe you should talk to all the straight men, who sleep around, get women pregnant and diseased, then leave them for someone else. DONT EVER ASSUME ABOUT ME AGAIN UNLESS U CAN BACK UP WHAT YOU SAY!!!!!

Must confess i never saw that show lol, but i do love Will and Grace, its funny, especially Karen Walker, i love her lol.

"Even people in jump suits are choking victims"- Jack

"Are you sure it isnt natures way of thining out the herd"- Karen

As-Salaam Alaykum

I am new, but i have been reading the posts on homosexuality for awhile, and say that i am somewhat saddened. But let me put up my argument on here, instead of starting a new thread.

1. All the Quranic backing against homosexuality has to do with lust, people approach animals, children, relatives, inanimate objects in lust.

2)Homosexuality means that you have the attraction and ability to LOVE the same sex.

3. I am Bisexual, no i never been molested, i have a good relationship with my father, I try to be a good mumin, I am usually conservative, i have kept my purity, i dont do alcohol or drugs..... guess what most of the gays i know are the same way (except the mumin, but Inshallah they will embrace Islam)

4. I never chose to be this way, and almost committed suicide, because as a Christian I felt dirty and below human who would never get to heaven unless i changed, and i couldnt

5. You cant judge all gays by what you see on TV or the very flamboyant, thats biased, most gays are conservative

So yeah, there is my stance and i hope to have many more conversations with all of you