Hello All. Well, for now ,it seems these two situations or one of them are in play c- will all this play on as a distraction from the "Illuminati s world reset"? d- Will there be a status Quo and a false peace will hold for a while? ... I pose the following two suggestions that may benefit all countries of the middle east, since this is the hot centre of the majority of this century s wars 1- All the countries of the middle east should start an honest dialogue about abolishing all nuclear intentions and create a team of experts - 2 from each country or more- to monitor and work with each state to dispose of the nuclear arms if they exist and control the harmless energy use from nuclear stations if they exist. This may improve cooperation and trust between them and serves as a start to real peace. 2- Solve the problem of the Palestine/Israel issue with all the UN members. This may be to the benefit of all the countries of the world. The lessons learnt from the past 80 years should create the will to do this. Or there will be no end to hardships and despair for all the population of the world. Only righteous and peaceful ways will lead to success and dignity for all. GOD bless you all. Peace.

Peace Fusion. You may find this debate/ conversation interesting also., some logic, dilemma and connection between faith and reason https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khg5XObHTAE Thanks brother. GOD bless you. Peace

Peace Fusion. Thank you for your interesting view. I agree with most of what you say.Yes indeed GOD is in overall control and this is part of the trial of the humans. In general, I was looking for views to see as many different takes and see what is the reality in this conflict. I listen to many different news channels and different takes on the issue, for example this Romanian guy does a lot of analysis and here is one of his view about the news of conflict and the latest talks of the ceasefire https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqM9s7y6EyM We sometimes do not know many things and we have to stay neutral until we get evidence. The world is strange and unpredictable . Reality is hard to accept by most. GOD bless you. Peace.

On the first part, I could not have explained it better than GL did. The Quran was revealed in Arabic, but that does not mean Umm al Kitab is limited to Arabic. It is a universal repository of truth, and previous scriptures, though revealed in different languages, also originated from it. So in short, divine truth was revealed across time, but the Quran remains the most reliable and complete source today. Arabic was simply the language chosen for the final revelation, ensuring clarity for its first audience, but the message itself transcends language.

Peace Marwan-Aed. So A kaffir is only the one who says GOD does not exist? The lesson of Qoran- Al Dhikr- is for those who have a heart- A mind- and is able to hear and witness. Iblis believes in GOD ,what do you call those who pretend to believe and try to hide their "Kufr"? These Then there are those who say, "We believe in God and the Last Day," while they are not believers. وَمِنَ النّاسِ مَن يَقولُ ءامَنّا بِاللَّهِ وَبِاليَومِ الـٔاخِرِ وَما هُم بِمُؤمِنينَ In trying to deceive God and those who believe, they only deceive themselves without perceiving. يُخٰدِعونَ اللَّهَ وَالَّذينَ ءامَنوا وَما يَخدَعونَ إِلّا أَنفُسَهُم وَما يَشعُرونَ In their hearts/ minds there is a disease. Consequently, God augments their disease. They have incurred a painful retribution for their lying. فى قُلوبِهِم مَرَضٌ فَزادَهُمُ اللَّهُ مَرَضًا وَلَهُم عَذابٌ أَليمٌ بِما كانوا يَكذِبونَ When they are told, "Do not commit evil," they say, "But we are righteous!" وَإِذا قيلَ لَهُم لا تُفسِدوا فِى الأَرضِ قالوا إِنَّما نَحنُ مُصلِحونَ In fact, they are evildoers, but they do not perceive. أَلا إِنَّهُم هُمُ المُفسِدونَ وَلٰكِن لا يَشعُرونَ Belief should be complimented by following the straight path. In fact you will find multitudes buy straying-Thinking it is guidance - instead of real guidance- which they call straying-. Well such trade will never prosper nor will they receive any guidance. Let us not confound the truth with falsehood ,nor conceal the truth knowingly when studying the scripture.Let us leave the judgement of people - Kaffirs and believers- to GOD Alone. So it is only others who can be kaffirs while we forget to double check ourselves? Yet we study GOD s scripture!Or should we try to understand what GOD is saying to us? Let us remember that we are accountable to the Lord and should believe also that we are going to meet Him and to Him we will all ultimately return. GOD bless you. Peace.

In Quran, it itself refers Quran or Kitab, in many verses, but we totally think Quran as the book with X surahs with verses as whole and searching for some miracle 19s etc... but I think the Quran or Kitab it refers only the unchangeable laws set forth by God or what we see from the system. Where we learn(read) to get guidance, it needs to be the laws or rules that are written onto the system, not the book, the christians called as people of the book while many modern muslims also become the people of the book in many ways. We have people reading it in memory, but have we understood the message correctly? Even how hard we hide the truth or the real kitab of what is right and wrong will be repeatedly coming up from the great blessed people. I think Holy book, the holy Prophet, Holy place etc are all coming from the community or religion, I feel nothing are holy except him and thats the concept of Masjid al Haram, a practice to understand God when we keep us away from worldly things, only God comes from one's individual heart, He does not belong to any one specific religion, culture or sect. He is common for all, thats the goodnews that so many people of different religions preaches and that Quran also teaches.

Back to the conversation with my other"me" GCR Now GL, you choose your question. GL Thank you. when Israeli Jews know that someone is helping Palestinians, they often view them as somebody who chose a side. Similarly when Palestinians know someone is helping Israel they view them taking that side. And as a human rights cause, I can say that one should chose humanity not sides. Right now, there are families with kids and disabled Palestinians who are just in panic. And they need to be evacuated to a safe place. So for me, it's a continuation. It's not opposites, Do you disagree? GCR War means suffering and casualties. It cannot be helped. GL I will quote you an article by the civilised media- The gardian newspaper- Quote Why did Hamas and Islamic Jihad launch the attack? The exact reasons for the attack are not clear, but there has been growing violence for months between Israeli soldiers and settlers and Palestinians in the West Bank. Armed settlers have attacked Palestinian villages; militants in the West Bank have attacked soldiers and settlers, and there have been repeated IDF raids on Palestinian cities. During the past week, some Jews have prayed inside the compound of al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem’s Old City. The area around the mosque is known to Muslims as Haram al-Sharif and is the third holiest place for Islam after Mecca and Medina in Saudi Arabia. To Jews, it is known as Temple Mount, and is venerated as the site of the biblical Jewish temple. Jews are not permitted to pray inside al-Aqsa compound; to do so is highly provocative. Hamas has called its current offensive Operation al-Aqsa Deluge. The longer backdrop is a 16-year blockade of Gaza by Israel and Egypt that has almost destroyed the strip’s internal economy and has caused hardship for the people living there. What do you make of the article? GCR It is a narrative. GL Like the Israel narratives,you mean it could be false? Or the 16 year old blockade is not true? GCR I said Hamas is responsible this time and you agreed. GL I agreed that killing innocent people and oppressing them should be condemned. from both sides.Now I want to bring these two points to our conversation 1-The exact reason for Hamas attack is not clear. 2-Why did the attack take Israel by surprise? Hamas must have planned this offensive for many months, and it is a mystery why Israeli intelligence appears to have had no idea it was coming. Israel’s surveillance of Gaza is intense. It monitors activity, communications and daily life via state-of-the-art surveillance equipment, including drones flying over the strip. It also relies on human intelligence via informants, many of whom are blackmailed or otherwise coerced into assisting Israel. What do you think the reason is? Or can there be something else we do not know? GCR We can only speculate. GL I remember in the past there are still speculations about 9/11, Iraq ,Libya and Syria ...wars... We can speculate but innocent people keep dying in their thousands.Human rights should be for all humans. Break time. GOD bless you all. Peace.

Peace.. gl.. I get you and your feelings in every word and your willingness to see this world be in good shape free of violence free of injustice free of oppression... Etc etc.. But... Unfortunately... It's too much... Like Prophet Lut said he is helpless... But always warned and talked against their actions... Yes brother.. You can always talk against those who doing injustice if your speach is allowed in a country where you live... In countries like I live even we can't talk against injustice and government actions and Only place is jail... But as a human yout environment you live you can always talk agaisnt injustice if required and if able take action alone if possible or together if possible... Suppose you are going in public train or public bus and you notice an injustice agaisnt a girl... Why to be be silent first let him know what he is doing is wrong. .if violence he approach then if possible let people know what he did. We can do things within our capacity... But er are not living in a community or nation where true believers are surrounded and the power is in the hands of true believes like of Prophet Mohamed.. So they can take actions eith justice... See for example how difficult it was for Prophet Musa. .helpless and afraid but had always the support of God in direct communication... We can't compare that with our lives... Oppression were there for ages but somehow they week delivered with mercy of God after ages.. Yes you can talk perhaps at least one or two who listens may reflect... But we can't change the world... Or even our country... Then bloodshed ... God created hell fire with intent... malaika spoken the truth of our own nature bloodshed... But God knows what we all don't know... Relax brother.. You are not doing any harm to world by not stopping anything what is happening around the world... Unless you directly involve and support in such organizatioons... We can't go against the law and order of a nation and outcome is worst... Even the law and order is againar our hearts... And remember though we want a change many don't want a change and they like as it is. So... It is complicated. Live as you live... As long as Iblees and crew around the majority will falter... So. Destiny is written.. Word of God will effect... Thank you..

Are religions of men not many and varied? Islam is not a religion. Islam to GOD is a state of mind Those who do not believe in GOD or accountability will reject all religions They at least take a consistent stand Those who claim to believe in GOD and follow men s religions are all divided into different religions and different sects within each religion, How can this not be a big contradiction since there is only one GOD? GOD does not give different religions and divides each religion into sects. This is inconsistency and cannot be from GOD Also GOD does not ask anyone to fight others that have different religions since He has given everyone the freedom of choice of beliefs. GOD is just and will not contradict Himself. One has the right only to defend themselves against aggression. If one believes in true Islam to GOD , one s state /purpose will include to follow GOD s message and upholds GOD s way of life in that message. That way of life should include the relationship and good behaviour with all his fellow peaceful humans . Passing on the message can be done with amicable advice and peaceful means. Argue the best way by what is best amicably. Since we are all humans , we must be prepared to accept others "best" if it is clear to us it is better than our"best".. Not adapt a "my mind is made up"attitude." GOD bless. Peace.

In the Qur'an, the heart is non-literal, and people have operations like changing a fuel pump every day. Likewise, each cell is a small factory that communicates with the brain. 2810 and became Fuuadu/heart mother Musa empty of indeed near she to she divulge in him if not that strengthened we of on Qalbiha/heart hers to she being among al-muuminina/those believers (masculine pl.)

Is Qoran a message to the world? Why? Let us see Many have already come to realise this and many will follow the message GOD willing. 1-The oneness of humanity is a powerful message in Qoran for all those who still want to live in their own tribal, national and ethnic cocoons without any respect and regard for the other. The Qoran does not want a person to cancel one's identity by birth but wants that identity to enhance inclusiveness rather than exclusiveness. 2-The Quran does not want people to deprive others of their dignity rights because of their color, gender or even religion. The Qoran does not give preference to one over the other. The Qoran does not say that only Muslims or who have faith in God deserve dignity or rights that are associated with dignity. It talks in a broader term and declares that no one has a right to deny humans their dignity that is a God given right. 3-The distribution of human resources in a manner that would ensure the dignity and oneness of humanity is a major challenge for human beings. Wars have been fought for land and access to natural resources such as water, land ,oil or gas without realizing that none of these natural treasures were created by humans, yet human beings have always fought over their greed to control them. The Qoran explains that the purpose to provide these resources is to ensure that human beings are not deprived of their basic needs for survival. It asks human beings not to use them to exploit fellow human beings. Qoranic message certainly gives guidance in this matter and invites people to work together and use GOD s natural resources/provisions to ensure that no one sleeps hungry and no one is homeless. 4-The Qoran not only emphasizes justice but also recommends a step above justice, i.e., working for the good of others at the expense of one's interest. So much inequality, indignity and denial of basic human rights takes place in our world simply because people tend to view justice for others as not binding. However, without adhering to justice, it is impossible to think of dignity, unity or universality of humanity. The Qoran reminds that people who are likely to achieve prosperity are those who change their personalities and no longer push others aside to selfishly fulfill their own selfish needs. Realizing that the other person's need of basics is more demanding they voluntarily allow them to fulfill it first. 5- Peace is the goal The ultimate goal of humans in this world is to secure a peaceful human society so that a peaceful family can protect the interests of a peaceful individual for achieving his or her true potential in deliberating on the purpose of this life and preparing for a life that is eternal in every sense of the term. The unity of humanity, the dignity, the justice and the universality of human resources pave the path for peace. They liberate humans from the mundane and profane and take them to the realm of sublime and sacred. They ensure that human beings reconcile between their greed and their need. Qoran s message to the world . A goal to a peaceful life and unity for mankind.. 516 With it, God guides those who seek His approval. He guides them to the paths of peace, leads them out of darkness into the light by His leave, and guides them in a straight path. يَهدى بِهِ اللَّهُ مَنِ اتَّبَعَ رِضوٰنَهُ سُبُلَ السَّلٰمِ وَيُخرِجُهُم مِنَ الظُّلُمٰتِ إِلَى النّورِ بِإِذنِهِ وَيَهديهِم إِلىٰ صِرٰطٍ مُستَقيمٍ GOD bless you all. Peace.

Thanks, i hope it just means enlightened beings or something. So the devas are the good ones right and the asuras are the bad ones? Not necessarily, it's not directly translated to 'good' and 'bad' since the outlook is different. The overall view is that everything is available in opposite polarity and "good" or "bad" is subjective. Yet both polarity need to exist and part of the one infinite. While the 'word' for the 'one infinite' in Sanskrit is Brahman. https//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman The 'unity' behind all 'diversities' and 'polarities'. Lao Tse had the same concept which he named as "Tao". The Tao which is beyond IS and NOT IS, beyond limitation / border of time and space. Next is truly dependent on what's your understanding of the word "God". Whether it's mapped in concept to "deity" (which is finite / a being / has polarity) or "The One Infinite" (Brahman / Tao) I can't believe that the Hindus didn't receive messengers. Have you read the Buddhist Scripture? I also wonder where the Asian messengers are. All i have read of them was the Tao Te Ching but it was so short? The eastern conception is that Brahman / Tao can easily be found inside. Thus the majority of them do not try to seek it 'outside', either through scripture or people. While the conception of 'messengers' are different if compared to the west (middle east included). In the west 'messengers' are viewed as 'intermediaries' between earth realm and 'gods realm' thus convey an 'authority' and need to be recognized and obeyed. On the east is the opposite, messengers is not a requirement for one to reach out to the infinite, since the infinite can easily be found inside. A message is not true just because a specific 'messenger' said so. A 'messenger' role is to deliver a message, and it's up to each to agree with it or not. And usually a 'good / kind / positive' messengers are humble and they do not ask others to accept / recognized him/her as a messenger or asking others to accept his/her opinion through force or threat. If he does then certainly he's the messenger / teacher of the 'negative path'. Thus there's a blurry line between 'messenger' and 'teacher'. For example Lao Tse never asked anyone to recognized him as a 'messenger'. And he never declared that he convey a message from a "divine authority" either. He just teaches, based on what he know, and those teaching / saying is then written and preserved on bamboo scrolls. It's up to the reader to feel 'inspired' or 'not inspired'. The same thing with Siddhartha Gautama... Most Buddhist did not see Siddhartha as an 'object to worship' or as 'mediator' between the earthly realm and divine realm, they see him as an 'inspiration', an inspiration to be 'enlightened' just like him. And he never claimed to be the "most enlightened" or the "last enlightened" either. Thus no such conception as the "Last Teacher", "Last Messenger" either.. Teachers / messengers always exist up until today and into the future. And definitely you can be one too... And messenger / teacher is always available in both opposing polarities... From the fruit you will know whether the tree is good or bad. As you need to experience both in order to differentiate. My goal is to read all major Scriptures of all nations. Try to look inside you, it's the best source of inspiration, you will then know and not only believe.

How about 3 girls in hijab, playing metal songs? Would that fell also into the category of "strange Islam"? Voice of Baceprot https//youtu.be/4aZX-C8HKJc

I am all for each to lead themselves and follow the straight path. GOD bless you all. Peace.

For those interested in both the bible and Qoran, these are interesting analysis of some scholars on both https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIfz9zrAf4E. You can search for other similar analysis by "blogging theology " available on you tube. GOD bless. Peace.

Peace brothers and sisters. I appreciate your comments on my home page here https//total-loyalty-to-god-alone.co.uk/ Thanks for your help. GOD bless you . Peace.

Thanks Good logic and Wakas for the links. Whitout no doubt one of the best Quran translation in English with comments to meditate. (Mazhar's also) Peace.

It seems that al-Hajjaj, governor of Irak under Caliph Abd al-Malik, played a major role in the canonization of Qur'an, first by making it a corpus (a book), instead of independant chapters, and then ordering the chapters in the order we have now.

Thanks all of you who responded and thanks to all of you who read out of interest. Here is the summary of my aim in this thread 1- Who are we ? Why are we humans now? Will we understand clearly the purpose here after we die? 2- Free will/choice ,is this to do with using our eyes ears and brain to choose our way of life ? 3-Are we accountable one day for our choices? 4017 On that day, every soul will be requited for whatever it had earned. There will be no injustice on that day. God is most efficient in reckoning. اليَومَ تُجزىٰ كُلُّ نَفسٍ بِما كَسَبَت لا ظُلمَ اليَومَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ سَريعُ الحِسابِ 4018 Warn them about the imminent day, when the hearts will be terrified, and many will be remorseful. The transgressors will have no friend nor an intercessor to be obeyed. وَأَنذِرهُم يَومَ الـٔازِفَةِ إِذِ القُلوبُ لَدَى الحَناجِرِ كٰظِمينَ ما لِلظّٰلِمينَ مِن حَميمٍ وَلا شَفيعٍ يُطاعُ This reminds me of "I told you so" about accountability 4030 The one who believed said, "O my people, I fear for you the same fate as the previous opponents. وَقالَ الَّذى ءامَنَ يٰقَومِ إِنّى أَخافُ عَلَيكُم مِثلَ يَومِ الأَحزابِ 4031 "The opponents of Noah, and `Ãd, Thamoud, and others who came after them. God does not wish any injustice for the people. مِثلَ دَأبِ قَومِ نوحٍ وَعادٍ وَثَمودَ وَالَّذينَ مِن بَعدِهِم وَمَا اللَّهُ يُريدُ ظُلمًا لِلعِبادِ 4032 "O my people, I fear for you the Day of Summoning. وَيٰقَومِ إِنّى أَخافُ عَلَيكُم يَومَ التَّنادِ 4033 "That is the day when you may wish to turn around and flee. But nothing will protect you then from God. Whomever God sends astray,(Because of his/her own choices) nothing can guide him/her." يَومَ تُوَلّونَ مُدبِرينَ ما لَكُم مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن عاصِمٍ وَمَن يُضلِلِ اللَّهُ فَما لَهُ مِن هادٍ God s favour as a message came to us to help us choose right.Tragic Human error of "big ego". and the wrong choice, can we listen?. 4035 They argue against God's revelations, without any basis. This is a trait that is most abhorred by God and by those who believe. God thus seals the hearts of every arrogant tyrant.( Those who think they know better and choose what their ego desires!!) الَّذينَ يُجٰدِلونَ فى ءايٰتِ اللَّهِ بِغَيرِ سُلطٰنٍ أَتىٰهُم كَبُرَ مَقتًا عِندَ اللَّهِ وَعِندَ الَّذينَ ءامَنوا كَذٰلِكَ يَطبَعُ اللَّهُ عَلىٰ كُلِّ قَلبِ مُتَكَبِّرٍ جَبّارٍ The best deal/choice is clear to me from the message 4039 "O my people, this first life is a temporary illusion, while the Hereafter is the eternal abode." يٰقَومِ إِنَّما هٰذِهِ الحَيوٰةُ الدُّنيا مَتٰعٌ وَإِنَّ الـٔاخِرَةَ هِىَ دارُ القَرارِ 4040 Whoever commits a sin is requited for just that, and whoever works righteousness - male or female - while believing, these will enter Paradise wherein they receive provisions without any limits. مَن عَمِلَ سَيِّئَةً فَلا يُجزىٰ إِلّا مِثلَها وَمَن عَمِلَ صٰلِحًا مِن ذَكَرٍ أَو أُنثىٰ وَهُوَ مُؤمِنٌ فَأُولٰئِكَ يَدخُلونَ الجَنَّةَ يُرزَقونَ فيها بِغَيرِ حِسابٍ Is this not what we are debating here about the right choices? 4041 "O my people, while I invite you to be saved, you invite me to the hellfire. وَيٰقَومِ ما لى أَدعوكُم إِلَى النَّجوٰةِ وَتَدعونَنى إِلَى النّارِ 4042 "You invite me to be unappreciative of God, and to set up/ follow choose beside Him idols that I do not recognize. I am inviting you to the Almighty, the Forgiver. تَدعونَنى لِأَكفُرَ بِاللَّهِ وَأُشرِكَ بِهِ ما لَيسَ لى بِهِ عِلمٌ وَأَنا۠ أَدعوكُم إِلَى العَزيزِ الغَفّٰرِ 4043 "There is no doubt that what you invite me to do has no basis in this world, nor in the Hereafter, that our ultimate return is to God, and that the transgressors have incurred the hellfire. لا جَرَمَ أَنَّما تَدعونَنى إِلَيهِ لَيسَ لَهُ دَعوَةٌ فِى الدُّنيا وَلا فِى الـٔاخِرَةِ وَأَنَّ مَرَدَّنا إِلَى اللَّهِ وَأَنَّ المُسرِفينَ هُم أَصحٰبُ النّارِ 4044 "Some day you will remember what I am telling you now. I leave the judgment of this matter to God; God is the Seer of all the people." فَسَتَذكُرونَ ما أَقولُ لَكُم وَأُفَوِّضُ أَمرى إِلَى اللَّهِ إِنَّ اللَّهَ بَصيرٌ بِالعِبادِ Thank you all. GOD bless you. Peace

What have we improved our understanding of Qoran on? Peace goodlogic. There is a lot to mention. Salat, Zakat, Fasting, Hajj etc. I'm still improving though, but compared to yesteryear, I feel I've improved. And I have this forum partly to thank. Can we measure this improvement? This is subjective. What one regards understanding, another regards misunderstanding. There really is no objective yardstick to measure how well each member have understood Qur'an. What does improving our understanding of Qoran lead to? How can we be sure? Again, this is subjective. We can all agree that improving our understanding of Qur'an lead us to better abide by its teachings and live by truth and justice. But the problem lies in the details. We cannot agree on what the Qur'an defines as it teachings, truth or justice. Hence, only get a subjective response to this question. For me, I feel understanding the Qur'an has lead me to multiple conclusions. Chief among them being that things are seldom what they appear to be and nothing is 100% certain. And so, the need to be vigilant and avoid complacency. Complacency with our position, whether religious or non-religious position is the bane of our existence. See verses; 4135, 1736. I would say according to what I read here(in this forum) I do not clearly see how one comes to such a conclusion. Say a new member visits and ponders /investigates our opinions on Qoran , can they really see an improvement in how we understand Qoran and can they themselves improve it further? I beg to differ. When I came to this forum, I browsed many of the old threads with erudite contribution of folks like ayman, Pazuzu, or Edip. Sure, it does seem quality of contribution has dropped in recent years, but that's expected as almost every thing has been discussed and very few members are active at this point. Less than 10 to be honest. 1- Can they be clear on Qoran message on how to lead their life? 2-Can they follow GOD s commands and instructions clearly without any doubts? 3- Can they explain the "controversies" arising from multimeanings words of Qoran? 4-Can they unite on the understanding of the rites/steps of the deen? 5-Can they agree on the definitions of the basics,like Islam, Salat, Zakat, Sawm, Hajj...? 5-Can they be certain about some aspects of Qoran if any? 6-Can they be certain they are guided? Just "No". There are just certain grey areas that we have to admit. The earlier we admit them, the better.