ok, makasih gan atas jawabannya.

hopefully agan masih inget siapa tuh di abqm yg berdebat dng agan dan menjelaskan mengenai 459, 3321, 533-4. salut buat dia. ane suka amazing sendiri, kalo denger2x cerita kayak begini.

salaam

Bukan kalimat gan tapi metode, dalam hal ini metode sanad di hadits.
Sudah sejak lama sebenarnya ane meragukan keaslian hadits karena metode sanad yang sangat tidak reliable untuk dijadikan patokan, namun hal yang menahan ane untuk berhenti menggunakan hadits adalah ayat ayat Qur'an seperti 459, 3321, 533-4 nah setelah dalam debat itu ane dijelaskan maksud dari ayat ayat itu dan penerapannya yang sangat mungkin dilakukan tanpa hadits maka seketika itu pula ane tidak lagi menggunakan hadits sebagai hudan.

Salaam...

yah sekedar tahu aja mengenai abqm.

Btw, kalimat apa dari mereka yg membuat agan berpindah keyakinan?

Salam

debat sama siapa gan di abmm/abqm?

Salaam,

Hello everyone!

I 19 years old boy from Indonesia, i came to conclusion Islam must based on Qur'an alone just recently when i arguing with quranist in one of Indonesian forum and i found myself unable to defend hadits and so called "science of hadits" and realized it's just conjecture and therefore must be rejected according to Qur'an.

I hope i can learn a lot here!

Peace...

Salamun 'alaikum,

Selamat bergabung Malayaman. Saya dari Indonesia, sering berkunjung ke Cyberjaya.

Saya suka baca www.e-bacaan.com yang ditulis oleh Pak Othman Ali. Namun Bapak Othman Ali sudah wafat setahun lalu, mungkin kalau ada cerita mengenai beliau, boleh diceritakan disini. Saya mengagumi hasil karya beliau.

Salam untuk semua teman-teman di Malaysia

Salaam Wakas,

I stumble upon this sentence In that case, the rejectors would have had reason to harbor doubts from QS 2948.

a. I understand that prophet can read and write prior first inspiration and he is gentile but what is the connection with rejectors? I mean if you're a rejector then whatever condition of prophet, you are still reject whatever prophet give to you.
b. Who is the rejector? What is exactly what they do? What is their reason to reject?
c. Why the rejectors have had reason to harbor doubts?

Salaam Wakas,

Can you include Prophet was not illiterate but gentile? Also to include misinterpretation of QS 2948 as argument to support prophet illiteracy.

Thanks

Salamun 'alaikum,

Is there anything i can recite from the Quran or any dua that i can do to ask Allah to sincerly guide me?

1780 And say "My Lord, admit me an entrance of truth and let me exit an exit of truth, and grant me from Yourself a support to victory."

Peace lilyfleur ,

Imfromjakarta,

Hello. I'm afraid that I don't fully understand your response. Would you please tell me more about it?

When I start to learn about al-Qur'an, there is a verse that keep me doing contemplations. That verse is QS 37. I look up words of 'muhkamat' in that verse and try to search other verses that contain the word 'muhkamat' or similar to it. Other verse that contain the word is QS 4720, it mention about war. Based on my understanding, verses that mention about war is muhkamat/essence of the Book.

I also learn that is not just war that essence of the Book but also verse that contain warning to people. My understanding is based on this verse QS 619.

So far my understanding about salat, it is still mutasyabihat/allegorical verse because it does not contain about war and warning. Based on my observation about salat, as you can see, in this thread, so many interpretation about what salat is, how to do the salat etc, it means everyone has their own understanding about salat.

Is it possible to unified those understanding? The answer is YES.

Salam lilyfleur,

If Allah wants things to be easy for us, why so much confusion about salat?

In my humble opinion, shalat is one of many mutasyabihat/similar verses.

3.7 He is the One who sent down to you the Book, from which there are firm revelations; they are the essence of the Book; and others which are similar. As for those who have a disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. But none know its interpretation except God, and those who are well founded in knowledge; they say We believe in it, all is from our Lord. And none will remember except those who possess intelligence.

Salam Ahmad Bilal,

Good question... laugh Nowadays, after doing a lot of study on the name (title, description) "Allah", I don't like the concept of referring to the Creator as "God", at least not in most cases (it's a different circumstance if I'm talking to people of other religions). The word "god" is so vague and amendable, meaning simply something you worship or devote yourself to, which is why it can be applied to anything. Based on this description, a "god" can be money, sports, television, cars, people, intoxicants (any addictive substances), books, games, or anything else. It can also be pluralized and gendered ("gods" and "goddesses&quot. This is completely different from "Allah", since this name/title can ONLY refer to one Being, the "rabb" of the universe. There can be no plurality or gender in the name "Allah", nor can it refer to anything other than the Almighty Creator of the heavens and earth. So, from now on, I mostly refer to the Creator as Allah, not "God"...

I could not agree more with you. Do you a translation of al-Qur'an in English that can be as literal as it can be?

For example = Allah is used instead og God, ma malakat aymanakum = what is your right hand possessed

Peace Simple,

According to the quran

1. There those who serve Allah(adopt peacful, truthful and a helpful ways) by choosing to serve humanity.

The definition of muslim based on QS 4133 is a monotheist and doing good deeds. This is apply for single individual who choose dien from Kitab as his/her way of life.

Doing good deeds is NOTHING if you are not monotheist -> this is what I learn in al-Qur'an. Do you know why?

688 Such is the guidance of God, He guides with it whom He pleases of His servants. And if they set up partners, then all that they had worked would fall away from them.

My advise to you, please ask guidance from Allah when you read from al-Qur'an, what kind of other actions that makes our worked in this world is fall away, you'll be surprise to find out that it is not just act of polytheist.

2. Those who don't serve Allah(don't adopt the peaceful,truthful, and a helpful way) but choose to serve the select few(because of their ill ways). They are kufar and when they start to practice their ill ways they are classed as Mushriks(they are their to harm humanity but serve a select few).

The more you read and study al-Qur'an, you'll notice that kufar, munafiq, zalim, fasiq, they will lead to ultimate sin which is mushriks (act of polytheist). Based on my understanding now, they (kafir, fasiq, zalim, munafiq) are all the same.

I haven't checked but i doubt you will find any verse in the quran where it says "The Kufar and the Mushriks" check it.

There are a LOT of ayaat in al-Qur'an that contain the word kufar and mushrik in single ayaat, one of them is QS 2105

Deen is simply fulfillment of your obligations to men.

What kind of obligations that needs to fulfill? I'm really interest to hear your opinion about this matter.

Religions exist although they may not provide any benefits to anyone but as long as those people are fulfilling their obligations to humanity then there can't be any harm although there is no benefit neither.

I'm not sure I follow what you wrote, especially about the last sentence "as long as those people are fulfilling their obligations to humanity then there can't be any harm although there is no benefit neither."

Peace Fawzia,

So would it have been preferable, imfromjakarta, had they stuck exactly to the Torah?

Would it be good to you if Jews killed their children who became apostates? Or stoned a newlywed who did not bleed on her wedding night & her husband complained? Would it be right to stone her on her father's doorstep? Or stoned every man(married or unmarried) who had sex with a married woman?

Its to the credit of Jews that they have been able to supercede such barbaric practices 2000 years ago via creative reinterpretations of Rabbis, & that Jews like Reform & Reconstructionist are constantly doing this.

Although the Torah gives the capital punishment for multiple offences, Israel has had only 2 executions all these years for massive war crimes, thanks to the reinterpretation of Jewish laws.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Israel

Jews who don't uphold the laws of the Torah are, by managing to do away with such barbarism two millennia ago, creating a more humane society,sure they follow the modern ethical principles of not stealing, not killing etc, but so do plenty of atheists & members of non Abrahamic faiths.

Or do you prefer rampant stonings of adulteresses, apostates & non bleeding newlyweds? ???

I have no knowledge about the original content of The Torah, if what you wrote in your previous post is content of Torah, and I was born as one of bani Israil, I will try my best to implement al-Qur'an as a Criterion/al-Furqaan to differentiate truth from falsehood in Torah.

Peace Fawzia,

This is what the Quran says about Jews who were given the Torah laws but simultaneously didn't apply those.

FREE MINDS The example of those who were given the Torah, but then failed to uphold it, is like the donkey that is carrying a cargo of books. Miserable indeed is the example of the people who denied the revelations of God. And God does not guide the wicked people.

Instead of upholding the law in Torah, they prefer to uphold other books such as

Mishna the collection of oral laws compiled about a.d. 200 by Rabbi Judah ha-Nasi and forming the basic part of the Talmud.

Gemara the section of the Talmud consisting essentially of commentary on the Mishnah

both of them called Talmud the collection of Jewish law and tradition consisting of the Mishnah and the Gemara and being either the edition produced in Palestine a.d. c400 or the larger, more important one produced in Babylonia a.d. c500)

so they prefer to use The Torah and Talmud.

The similar fate also happens to people that called them self 'muslim'. Instead of upholding the law in al-Qur'an, they prefer to use hadith compiled by Bukhari and co, ijma of Islamic scholars etc along with al-Qur'an.

Salamun 'alaikum,

peace

Are all religions okay so long as..........

From my point of view, there's no such thing as religions. Religion is a term created by human to differentiate them self which is from my understanding is another act of polytheist as backup by ayaat below

3031-32 Turn to Him, and be aware of Him, and hold the bond, and do not be of the polytheists. From those who have divided their system and become sects, each group is happy with what it has.

4213 He has decreed for you the same system He ordained for Noah, and what We inspired to you, and what We ordained for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus "You shall uphold this system, and do not divide in it." Intolerable for the polytheists is what you invite them towards. God chooses for Himself whoever He wills; He guides to Himself those who repent.

Allah introduce us through messenger to a system of life called dien.

For a single individual a dien can be interpreted as a way of life
For more than one person a dien can be interpreted as system of life that govern their life using Kitab as THE ONLY source of law.

religion, democracy, secularism, communism, capitalism, liberalism, Vox populi, vox dei (The voice of the people the voice of God) etc are OPPOSITE of dien

Just a little bit of OOT

I like this quote

Nec audiendi qui solent dicere, Vox populi, vox Dei, quum tumultuositas vulgi semper insaniae proxima sit

And those people should not be listened to who keep saying the voice of the people is the voice of God, since the riotousness of the crowd is always very close to madness

is a similar like this ayaat below

6116 And if you obey most of those on the earth they will lead you away from the path of God; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.

the people are

1. Peaceful,
2. Truthful,
3. Kind.

hmm

You do not need religion to achieve peacefulness, truthfulness, and kindness for single individual but you certainly need dien to achive those if you want apply it into a nation.

Salamun 'alaikum,

18103 Say Shall We inform you who are the greatest losers in respect of deeds?

18104 Those whose striving goes astray in the present life, while they think that they are working good deeds.

Those are very interesting verses. If we continue to next verse, we know exactly who they are

18105 These are the ones who rejected the revelations of their Lord and His meeting. So their works were in vain, and We will not give them any value on the Day of Resurrection.

So, there are people who do good deeds but goes astray in QS 18103-105 and also there are people who claimed that they are one of believers/mukmin but also go astray.

28 And from the people are those who say We believe in God and in the Last Day, but they are not believers.

Salam TAJ,

I never heard of a parent who literally killed their children. What is common among some of the the poor is that they sell their children.The human, children in particular, trafficking is the largest after the drug and weapon trade respectively. That selling is also common among the not so poor but usually hidden under name of marriage.

Mostly when the baby born, they killed the baby instantly, by putting the baby in thrash bin or sometimes just flush it over toilet. This is very common due to unwanted pregnancy caused by free sex. If they are too poor to have a baby, usually they left it at hospital/sell it to couples that does not have baby of their own (usually by middle man/organized crime)

Salam Q_student,

Peace
I agree with your first two interpretation because Quran supports. The third one does not have any Quranic support.

The first two interpretations are explained by these two verses.

(
Regards

I do not know how to read in Arabic, I appreciate if you give me the surah and verse numbers. Regarding the third interpretation, it is my own interpretation based on life experiences that I have so far. Killing children = too busy to collect all the material wealth in this world so neglecting children education, sounds to me like ignorant.

Salam Q_student,

Where does it say that this kill = keep ignorant ???
Regards

okay, I will explain to you about my understanding of those verses

1. killing children = killing children as in literal either using knifes, handgun or ropes.

next understanding

2. killing children = abortion as result of free sex or killing babies from unwanted pregnancy (this is very common in my country where a new born baby found death in garbage).

next understanding

3. killing children = instead of educating your children from good words found in al-Qur'an, you spend your time with your children telling stories as similar like in QS 6112, or worse, you do not have time to spent with your children because you have to work hard to gathered wealth in this world (poor/concern of poverty)

that's my understanding of the verse of killing children.

once again, may I ask your interpretation about those verses about killing the children ?

Salam Q_student,

Please provide evidence ,instead of talking in the air without evidence.
Regards

sure, these are the evidences from al-Qur'an

1731 And do not kill your children out of concern of poverty; We shall provide for you and them. The killing of them was a big mistake.

6151 Say Come let me recite what your Lord has made unlawful for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and do good to your parents; and do not kill your children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is openly of it and what is subtle; and do not take the life which God has made forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend.

and last QS 6140

6140 Losers are those who have killed their children foolishly, without knowledge, and they forbade what God had granted them by lying about God. They have strayed and they were not guided.

May I ask your interpretation about those 3 verses above ?

Salamun 'alaikum,

By brainwashing their children into taking idols like their parents, or by distracting the parents into other venues and so making them neglect their children.

The word Qatl means ruining or destroying one's life more than ending a life, which is worse than ending a life!

I also has the same interpretation about the verse of killing the children, the way they kill their children are unconsciously. For example, instead of trying to derived the meaning from al-Qur'an and read it to their children every night, they prefer to use other stories to tell.

The problem is the story is sure hear nice but if we read them carefully is nothing than just

6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet mankind and Jinn devils to inspire each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.

I have a lot of traditional tales from my country that sounds fancy but actually are nothing more than just evil sneaky whispers.

Evidence please for this "unique meaning"?
I hope it is not home made meaning.

The evidences are overwhelming in al-Qur'an, do you know that Allah created human on stages ? The same concept also applies to our understanding of al-Qur'an. One verse can have deeper meaning to other people. The 1st step is to take it literally. The next step of how deep your understanding in al-Qur'an is depends on how big is your experiences in life.

Me and TAJ are coming from different continent, and we don't know each other, but we have the same point of view over one verse. Isn't it an evidence for you ?