I didn't get that last one thegod? Anyway, I have spend enough time on this on this forum. I have thrown enough pearls... Feel free to continue our talk through PM.

Sarah Palin and Michael Savage seem to be anti-AGW. That's not to say that if you see the devil praise the Lord you should stop praising the Lord, but it's hard to imagine them having any philanthropic interest in this.

I have had the same worry about Lord Monckton. Not only do I not take seriously, people who use 'Lord' instead of their name. The guy is a spitting image of a 'free-marked' goon. Obviously companies would rather be free of this ludicris taxation on the air we breathe. I don't blame them. So would I, because the instant they start paying, I start paying! where do you think they are going to send these extra expenses to? They (companies hurt by the lunacy) are the reason this went from being a small scandal about hackers and openness in science to become Climategate I reckon. This could have ended up in the 9/11, new world order drawer, but some of the big players had too much at stake to keep it quiet so now it is blowing up. And Obama and Co will have to make legislation based on cooked numbers, knowingly, and I think this might just end up coming back to bite him in the a...ear. edit; you didn't seriously think that 'we the people' had anything to do with it do you? look around and watch the apathy

CBS http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgIEQqLokL8

Our lord and saviour Obama's Administration Dismisses Climategate, Vows to Press Forward With Endangerment Finding; http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMmzTohxefw <-that is not very suspicious at all
http//epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=570e6fbc-802a-23ad-4fe9-2dc2fcac8475&Issue_id=

12 Days, 3 Networks and No Mention of ClimateGate Scandal
Even as Copenhagen looms, broadcast news ignores e-mails suggesting warming alarmists 'manipulated' data, conspired to destroy information and thwarted peer reviews; http//www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2009/20091202135822.aspx

All the sources you wouldnt otherwise have known of, and you are welcome.

edit http//talkingabouttheweather.wordpress.com/2009/12/02/google-gate/ on google.

Could you please work with these "they", "people", or "any/most of you" in a more civil and cooperative manner, if you really think this is an important issue--

No! Let those who have ears hear, let those who have eye's see and let the rest go where their kind goes because they refuse reality, none of my problem or concern. This has got nothing to do with ego, and if you feel hit by the remarks, find a mirror and look into it. This is it. People have been throwing around useless terms like the new world order, the masons, the whatever, on little but gut instinct for a long time, but when evidence of not just conspiracy, but an enormous one, that goes through all layers of society hits us right in the face, we go on with our business as usual. If you cannot see why this is a completely fucked up behaviour I am almost saddened that I even took the time to write this on this forum. But yeah...let's just look into the back of the guy in front and follow the large majority in their self chosen ignorance about the workings of the world. This is the last i will write about his here. 'The people' have chosen obviously and no amount of care or provocation can wake them up from their slumber. I am not responsible for you people, if you want to serve other than God (even if it is by proxy) by all means. knock yourself out. But when the horrible reality of what you did (by doing nothing) hit you like the pains of labour on a pregnant woman, do not say nobody came to warn you!

http//www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/211_kleenex.jpg
(*if you find my language coarse and rude, here please take one, it is one me)

edit Just because I am wondering. If there is a fire in your house and the first fireman in shouts at you to GTFO!!! do you refuse because he wasn't polite? The logic here is just mind blowing!!!

Yes, but is there a political ambition or a religious agenda behind it? Somebody has to benefit -- an industry or a conglomerate or a political faction or a religious order or an elitist group or somebody. Or is it an association that comprises of some or all of the above with greed being the only common ideology.

The ideology of wealth witch at a certain point becomes the ideology of power when you have all the ferraris, all the houses, all the yatches, all the women, all the hounds, all the horses. Then there is one thing left...all the power. The core philosophy of evil. These gangsters we call the world elite have been at that point for a long time. Some of them represent what i view as an inner core, then there is outer rings of people who still do not have all the 'stuff', so that is their motivation to get in on it. Then there is another outer ring of politicians who just want 'more stuff and more power' but who are far from in the elite, and then there are all the useless idiots who do not think a single thought for themselves ever in their life who will go and propagate the happy message.

In this climategate scandal I still believe that the scientsits has been set up as fall guys. They got a lot of grant money but who can blame them for that? They were in on it, but are not the creators of the hysteria or the politics that is the truely worrysome part of this. If their science is wrong, it will show. it is not like they put those money in their own pockets. I am not even sure they are entirely wrong in their ideas or conclusions to be honest! This climategate scandal is about so much more than a handful of mails (and some very interesting programmer notes). It reveals a press that is either "in on it" or so lazy as to be utterly useless for their intended purpose. It reveals a large majority of politicians who could not get green enough and who all paraded the message in the hope for the easy vote. After all caring for the environment IS a good thing, so if I was a politician I would properbly try that one too for a little free (gratis) points, but they did so at the cost of the job they are paid to do. All the lobbyists, which ones of them had the power to push the hysteria through? All the banks who accepted cap and trade into the world of finance with no second thought (it is a new valuta, nothing less). It reveals that the whole thing was driven forward on greed, power mongering and the expected and never failing stupidity of the masses. Just like usual, nothing new here besides....we got to look at it this time, it was exposed naked and that is something new! Well thegod, now you know. I may be wrong in several of my conclusions so do not take my word for anything. Go research and tell the world. All those around you, in the forums you know of.

I dont there is any single individual or group that stand to gain "the most" from it. I think there is a lot of them who worked in concert to make it possible for all of them to reap unearned rewards.

It will survive and succeed if people do not start to put pressure on the main stream media to a way greater extend than what is happening atm. But take a look around you, understand peoples priorities and understand that there isnt a lot we can do. People want their rightious servitude under the devil while they talk 'the high speak' about how to follow God the best and whoms breasts to suckle.

There is a great deliberate mix up between Climate and Environment (which we all want to preserve nearly at any cost). Nobody think we should just destroy the world or continue our haphazard ways, not even the evil oil company CEO's who themselves have children that need a future to step into.

besides the cap and trade bullshit (because that is what it is) we are to get a political construct with the power to tax the whole world and enforce taxation. They can try and make it spin all day long but that is a world government. I did not hear democracy or human rights mentioned which I suspect is no accident! As part of a new emerging fascist world government there will be a new religion. An eco religion based on guilt and shame as good as they ever came. Abrahamic traditions basically state that ;"you are a lousy sinner but feel free to breathe and try to make right while youre here" where the new eco religion states "you are a lousy sinner".

For those who do not care or just arent smart enough to figure it out (hello most of you!). Cap and trade is a tax on the air you breathe by proxy. There you have it...the final tax we always laughed about dad and I. He would say;" son these critters wont be pleased untill they tax the air you breathe" ...there you have it. Now pay up or please stop breathing (which I much would prefer given the retardation of the majority of people including many on this very forum). I am sorry if this disturb your important discussions about the finer nuances of drinking breast milk and the prophet hood of Mandela.

Just to add; Bing (Microsofts version of google) just cut it out aswell. It used to have it, but now it don't. If any of you are in doubt about the seriousness of the situation -which i very much suspect is the case since only 2 other people apparently care for the future- look at this;

http//wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/bing_climategate.jpg

http//wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/bing_climategate_autosuggest_120209.jpg

more info at
http//wattsupwiththat.com/

People do not trust politicians a bit, they do not trust the press, this whole thing balances on our trust in scientists...who for the most part are good folks with honest intentions. If it is demonstrated to the people this loudly how easy they were deceived a lot of other faiths that is based on our trust in established science will come crumbling down I suspect. "if I was so wrong about this, what about 9/11, what about the pentagon papers, what about......"

It is very possible that the scientists involved are being set up as scapegoats. Regardless of their findings, it is politicians and press who made manmade global warming what it is. NOT phil Jones or any other of these guys.

are you a crackpot?

I agree. But so is the spin engine and nobody can deny it's power over the public forum. People need to educate themself on this, what has been said, what the problem is, so the spin engine will have less to work with. it took CNN 6 days to even report on it and when they did, they tried to downplay it's importance. You will hear the term "well the mails shows that they are just human"...this is true, humans with little moral fiver, but the code reveal that they are downright crooks. I can't wait for the clever heads to decipher the data they just released....that is...since they threw away ALL the original data, nobody can really verify the validity of their later calculation wich the rest of the model rest upon. The data they felt pressurred into releasing after the hack (that sceptical scientists had been asking for, for years, to no avail) are not the original RAW data. Dont let anyone tell you that they released their data. They have not, they have released revisions.

The price for liberty is eternal vigilance. If there ever was a 'in your face' evidence of the validity of this quote from ..I think B.Franklin. Climategate is it. There are so much money and interrest allready invested in this that you can expect manipulations from every corner even in the most subtle of ways;

http//i50.tinypic.com/2u94eab.jpg
http//i47.tinypic.com/fp6u14.jpg
http//i49.tinypic.com/wh1eyw.jpg
(this is btw common practice for Google. Slow update? Bing has no such problems Not relevant enough? with the current growth of the use of the word on the net that does not fly as you can see it will find and suggest topics with less than 7000 entries.)

http//www.suicidecat.com/sketchy/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/sock_puppets_008.jpg

Edip, check this one out; ;D (Sorry John mate, but it is kinda funny!)

http//www.harlemlive.org/arts-culture/religion/religionideasnmore/christianity.jpg

And on top of this I am thinking about the strange custom of corpse eating and blood drinking obviously, even if it is in effigy. Imagine you have never heard about religion, you are one of the few happy unawares out there and then you run into a nice freindly bloke all dressed in black who takes you to his ...well you assume it is a social club of sorts, with a magnificent club house and in there you are offered to drink blood and eat flesh, what would your initial reaction be? Personally you wouldn't be able to tell my behind from my shoe soles. It is the strangest of stuff that seeps down the generations, especially regarding our indoctrinated faiths.

But I heared some arabic speakers do not understand the quran. Why is that? or is the source which I got information wrong?

I think the translation game is part the reason for that. Insisting that arabic is a magical language that never change while it certainly has...and a lot. He understands it from a street level, but when I look at how this man behaves himself, I am certain that I have more to learn from him than visa versa, atleast as a person. The few theological differences between us are just that and who really knows? The sheer arrogance I have met in the God/Quran alone community can take on the worst of sunnis on their best of days and still come out the bigger more self rightious wanker.

Does he read the quran in arabic without knowing the meaning like most sunnis?

Doesn't look that way to me and I know that he both speaks and reads arabic.

I live with a Sunni. I wake up every morning to a confessed Sunni and it has posed no problems at all. This is because Sunnis come in several different flavors. Her family are devout religious but her dad has always 'shown a way' rather than preaching to his children and thus his daughters are now religious and wears the hijabb out of love of God and respect their dad's example. I have the utmost respect for this man, there is no doubt that he reads the Quran and use some hadith for spice (in that order). He has never told his children any of the strange or messenger offending hadith and I think this is because he ignores them and pretend they are not there. So their relationship with hadith seems to be limited to the method of prayer and a few other bells and whistles. Ofcourse there is the whole mecca, hajj thing, but I will have to view this man on his actions, as judging his faith is reserved for someone else and to me he is an exemplary human being and an inspiration. If the women start talking gossip he either leaves the room or tells them kindly to continue with the "woman news" when he has left. He spend a part of each late evening reading and reciting the Quran. He is always polite and freindly and you can tell it is genuine. There may be some theological subjects we disagree on like Mecca, but we both know that God knows the truth and we will both be informed so heated debate is pointless and respectless. In fact, I wish I was more like this Sunni man as a person, but in time perhaps it will rub off a little on me. Im told he 'grew with it' and used to have a short temper

Unfortunally his kind is rare. I know of a few other families like this, friends of my father in law obviously. But my other run ins with sunnis has not been as good. Friendly until you start asking the wrong questions. He accepted my marriage proposal to his daughter knowing that I was not a Sunni, his criterion was that I believed in God and the messengers. That was it. If his daughter thought I was good enough for her, and I believed in God, then I was good enough for him. How many devout Sunnis (tho whole ball of vax, the long beard the arabian clothes and funny hat) in their 60's do you know of who would do like that?

But the reason im telling you this story is because I think it is important not to create a "them and us" situation, because as people on the street there are many sunnis closer to our point of view than the dominant salafi/wahabi one. Which btw. he loathes with a passion and often talks about the vises of. And confronting these undecided sunnis with hard words, and telling them that their family and traditions are crackpot, is certain to push some of them further into the cult...

For instance it fails to give us medical secrets for instance the cure for diseases

It does however tell people how to avoid them in the first place. 1.high standards of hygiene, wash your hands to the elbows several times a day. In these pig flu scare times does that remind you of something? you have white coats on the tele chanting like gregorian monks to make people understand that the spread of these diseases are because we are in general a bunch of filthy pigs, and that apparently personal hygiene is something a lot of people needs to be introduced to through authority. 2.Stick to a single partner at a time and keep a waiting period of no less than 4 months before you enter into any intimate relationship again. These 2 advices can do a lot to prevent the spread of disease. Virus is another organism present in this little sphere of creation and I am certain that it serves some purpose beyond annoying us. Perhaps it's purpose is weeding out dumb, filthy people?

http//www.wwyd.org/images/dagon_pope%20hat_3.jpg <-this fool is wearing a fish on his head for some reason. Legend has it...that it can be traced back to Dagon worship. Knowing the history of the catholic church I personally think that is slander against Dagon worshippers, but there could be something to that theory still. I have this pet idea that right behind every genuine world teacher there is a crowd of ...well I don't know whom, but they seem to be into the business of constructing religions from these teachers messages Religions that all end up looking the bloody same. And being arrogant pricks like elitists usually are, even in the small (think vegans, PETA here) they cant help but to plaster everything they touch with their logos to send out the message to those 'in the know'. In fact, you dont have to look any further than any random youth counter culture to find this same pattern in place. On e.g t-shirts that states stuff people outside the culture is not supposed 'to get'. So whomever they are, they certainly flash their double squares, twin or tri pillars, fishes, Chessboard patterns, pentagrams etc etc etc... You will find them (and often in combination) in Churches, Mosques, Synagogues, masonic temples and it all means something good, supposedly. Oh well...pet ideas. They are like ears. But the fish hat is still absolutely ridiculous and it does look suspiciously like a stylized version of the Dagons priests headgear.

http//xe5.xanga.com/61dd22f36653574415159/z45596547.jpg

Unfortunately I knew that for many people Martian thieves were the first explanation for the disappearing socks phenomenon!

This is fully absurd. Everybody knows that it is the sock gremling who take a single sock from a pair to cause havoc in the house. I enjoyed the read. Good work. From the pictures I could see that you felt in an ethical dilemma regarding the scam artists. You really shouldn't. In your company the guy admitted to his err and tried to correct it. He may fall back to his wrong ways but that is not your concern. Prison is not justice.

I am having a debate on youtube atm. about the authority of Bukhari, with with a friendly Sunni. He offered up the explanation that Bukhari saw the prophet in a dream and in this lies is authority. I had never heard that before, I must admit, but I cant help but to draw parallels to a similar story- Do I hear 'John' ...anyone ?

Looking forward to your list of oddities. 100 would be putting a hard limit on yourself. Good ol' fish hat is far from the most disturbing example all though the current ones name is extremely funny in the context. Rat Singer...pied piper? p