Huruf is a sister!
Kakak huruf itu perempuan, lho. Jangan kaget yaa. D
Oya, selamat datang di forum ya, kak. )
Salaam.
oh ok my bad, then probably it may best to bring umbrella and skin protection cream, should sister huruf decide to come along on pazuzu expedition
Sama sama ya )
Salam
kirikanan,
Also consider the possibility that Abraham may have been in one location, and Muhammad in another, and Muhammad simply reinstituted al hajj in his locality. This is my view.
Ok bro. )
May I ask where exactly is the place, according to your believe? then, Have you been to hajj or umrah that place?
Thank you and Salam
@Pazuzu If you really want to prove Salibi was onto some objective truth, I suggest you take a shovel and start digging in Yemen. I would be most interested in those findings.
I suggest the same bravo
I sincerely hope, you can acquire the funding. Whenever you acquire one, you can bring leeman along, as he always 'whining' about the funding. You may also bring brother huruf or any of your supporter, as an journalist, to make documents on whatever your find by your own shovel in maqams kamal kalibi !
Peace.
here's pointer maybe you can find good quality one instead
https//preachrr.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/pick-shovel-cross.jpg
Peace be upon you all
I have read this thread from the first pages. I just want to ask simple question
Did anyone ever going to Mecca, Madinah? either for haj or umrah?
brother raging gaijin? or anyone?
Did anyyone ever been to Beqqa? in jerusalem, either doing haj or umrah?
brother Layth, KD501, (for the proponent of beqqa valley in lebanon? Jerusalem)
I hope you all can give me simple and honest answer. Thank you
Salam
Your qualifying Pazuzu's contribution as garbage describes you not Pazuzu. Nobody worthy wastes energy puylling down somebody's work or contribution. Rather would keep mum or would contribute something themselves to make light of whatever. Calling somethin garbage is no merit, and seems to clear you, it seems of the need to come up with good analysis or goot research stuff to counter what you qualify as garbage. What you say is of no value and gives a pretty clear idea of the mental state of whoever comes up with that kind of thing.
If Pazuzu was half as mean as his name callers, he would be laughing out loud at these word wastage without any value or help for anybody , because really it is laughable.
So when pazuzu calling other works (real research not google based) are garbage's propaganda, he is worthy right?
Typical..... hmm
Salam
Interesting you're assuming the one whom criticized pazuzu considered him as devil and such, such imagination. nope
I'm not even going to debate you brother huruf. I'ts only going to be mudharat for me to debate anyone over someone like pazuzu.. )
A reactions whenever pazuzu is criticized on general terms ( this is general issues board as I recall again), in sha Allah everyone can read and judge it by themselves. And lastly, Alhamdulillah, it seems only bit portion members on this forum believe in pazuzu garbages.
Salam
I apologize if I missed the reference, I couldnt find it in the OP. I thought it was important to illustrate how this idea has been heaviliy abused politically, if it did not came into life because of political motivations. Just pay attention to the OP author's use of anti-zionist statements. In my opinion the whole theory is pseudo-scientifical. I'm not even bothered to go into a debate. It would be a lot more honest if at least the nationalist background of Salibi and his support for fatah was mentioned.
You do need to Apologise brother. Trust me, as I have said in this thread also, it's wasting time nothing, but garbage. The problems is here, for some, pazuzu work considered as truth its liberating and enlightening. His follower will attack you whenever pazuzu work criticized. Only pazuzu can point other work's as garbage's, propaganda and so on.
Just like some criticized Bukhari, whoever it was will have to face bukhary faithfull follower whom believe bukhary work is liberating, enlightning etc, all because of the amount of work his done, one should be thankful.
As I said, thre's might be propaganda in play here hehehe.
Peace
Salam
Bismilah...
iam not going to go into details, just straight to the point
Shalla it's verb if you put ta marbutha in the end then it will be noun. In other words activity shalla that can be identified or named. Derived from the sad-lam-waw (arabic roots) and all prescribed in Al Quran in many verses.
The variations
shalat (noun) - (without definitive article) is not ritual and not time prescribed. this highlight Connections, relations, As in
• Rasul (in other words, human) shollu those who gave amwal for purification (9103)
• Rasul (human) cannot stand and suplicating give dua to al mukhalaf (981-84)
Shalat (noun) (activity shalla that can be named) (withhout definitive article) also highlight the the blessing that Allah gave to Rasull, blessing malaikat to rasul, human bless to rasul. Rasul bless other human as given example before
The problem is, most of people here failed to recognized there are other variation on the word of shalla, the one with definitive article or isim makrifat ;D
As I explained before we can see connections established
• Allah to Rasul
• Malaikat to rasul
• Rasul (i/o human) to human
Remember all above is not ritual and can be done at anytime or even continuously, not time constraint!
Whats missing here??? if you can see clearly the one is missing connection human to Allah
That is the one that Allah described as As shalat - with alif lam (definitive article/isim makrifah) is always ritual at the time prescribed. This is where human made connection with Allah
So one should really put very close attention on isim makrifah, because the devils is in the details!! That what make most people miss when reading AlQur'an, so they are generally treated the word the same is every verse without considering the syntax, context, this is wrong way to read AlQur'an. They fail to read Qur'an without proper nahwu shorof. Ironically, that is the main problem that I have seen in this forum, the debate between ritualist and non ritualis never end
The site like corpus quran also should be revised regarding the occurrences on this word, it should be something like this
• 12 times as in all (ٰ verb/fi'il
• 12 times as in sallat (without alif lam) ( ) noun/nomina/isim
• 71 times as in asalat (dengan alif lam) (َ noun/nomina/isim
• 1 time as in muallan (ى noun/nomina/isim
• 3 times as in mualln (ن active participle
*numbers may differ slightly, please check again
While as shalat is purely one (human) connection to Allah, always ritual and always time prescribed. I'm not going to debate on how many times, regarding this only Allah is the Hakim (note I use the as definitive article).
So guys, lets end this debate, we are all AlQuran only follower rigth??
its ritual and non ritual, both are prescribed in AlQur'an
I hope with this little shadaqah ( in other words shalat) that I gave here , everyone can contemplate, will start over, try to approach every ayat consisting the word with care, and may Allah give you new insight of what really prescribed. So, there's a difference between Qur'an only and (Al) Qur'an only
I wish you all well and may Allah Guide us unto His straight path
Salam
Im sorry if my English is not understandable
Salamun alaikum
I just want to ask simple Question, regarding the Ptolemaic corpus on Macoraba or perhaps any other city, have someone try to put those latitude and longitude in Current gps system? I mean the opponent of mecca = Macoraba have you tried to put lat an long givehn by Ptolemy for Yathib?
becuase i trie duse Google GPS and both error result, did I input the number wrongly or..?? please help
peace peace
The human heart.
Salaam
nice one handshake
I wish you well and may Allah guide all of is into His straight path
Salam
Look at this thread, lets contemplate on what is done
Some think al kabah in Lebanon, and Pazuzu (Lebanese) saying is saying for sure al kabah is not there, some bring another arguments that it might be in Macedonia, Yemen and the list goes on and on.
Myself, everybody else may probably die without knowing where is the real al kaba and who prophet Muhammad actually was (not for me anyways hmm) What happened then? die without knowing the messages refer to as a sign/ayat!! die focusing on the debate over human version of history (maximalist, minimalist, etc), die without knowing the qiblah (focal point) as the dirrection. Should this happened, the one who boldy deny Allah in His presents, and the one who still here until the resurrection day will surely laugh his ass out, as he can prove humanity at best is not better than him. I might die second after I'm writing this as we all might, no body knows, it is ultimately one choice to die with peace, iman in his heart or without never know what the messages.
Only God story is the truth brothers. Once you put human his story, her story, as truth you might lost in translation or interpretation, which story? you should know there no absolute truth unless Allah truth right? Sectarian have their own version of history, imperialist might have another version of history, Zionist try to cover up history. Scholar made their stories, minimalist try get funding to write or rewite the story and so on.. Until when this going to stop? if you analysed carefully, there might be a a play?s here.
AlQur'an should used as THE base (this only quran forum as I recall) handshake
For example, relating to the topics, Allah has made THE most prominent (alka'bah) as al bayt al haram (597). May I ask where exactly THE most prominent that has been made as al bayt al haram in Yemen? where exactly THE most prominent albayt al haram in becca valley in lebanon? According to the meaning this al bayt al haram should be THE most prominent, THE most protuberant, other words should be THE most distinguishable among other bayt ( comparable, mankind -not just arabs, can identified one) So,...Where is it??
This is one of the ayat/signs to show characteristic of THE most prominent which Allah made as al bayt al haram, if there's such houses in Yemen or becca valley that fit other characteristic mention in AlQur'an (eg bayt al atiq) can you point the directions for me? sun
Some might says (without proof) it has already been destroy, some might say the one in mecca is actually pagan houses (base on man (his) story, and some narations find in kutubus sittah). Even pazuzu said forget about the pilgrimage!! So there is no more haj can be done!! (indirectly saying forget about verses in AlQur?an). Your answer can include photographic evidences perhaps,longitude and latitude that showed why is that bayt considered as THE most prominent albayat al haram compare to others, wherever in you selected area..and the answer is??? ( no more hadith, no more effort to rationalized, just simply direct answer with evidences)
Before you answer know this, I will respect whatever answer you have and not going to push my believe. By all means, if one think in becca valley or yemen, or Macedonia or(you fill the blank)?then go ahead believe it.?am not going to say that 'insane', 'part of Zionist movements' 'etc'. All I need is direct answer, where exactly is it (not contradict characteristic prescribed in AlQur?an) !!! and for those answer we ask Allah Almighty to witness whatever our answer is, and may him explained to us in yaumil hisab
Salam.
Brother huruf,
You are right brother ) Im' not going to deny there's a bit of shock there. I was shocked how garbage, craps can be the base for claiming humanity great history is a lie, how such man made garbage that pazuzu quotes serves as the base to discredit AlQur'an truth. The only thing that I indebted to pazuzu is for wasting my time to read such bull craps. Before you attack on this general statements, look at carefully, this thread on the general issues board and I'm asking general question about his work, and still no answer from him...
I'm now begining to see historical pattern here. When Bukhari work is done, in his day, the followers, traditionalist , or whatever you might call them, they fell indebted, liberated perhaps. When Bukhari is criticized, the one who think Bukhari work is liberating, fulfilling, they're also going to say (more or less) like some who defend pazuzu's, saying "look at the amount of work his done", "an honest worker, and so on".
Bro, You cannot judge whether someone honest or not only by looking at amount of work he has done without expecting reward, Are you saying dishonest man otherwise?? come on!! have you known him personally? or you just more like Bukhari, when he labelled some narrator that he did not see as tsiqah and adl, and so on? There might be hidden agenda by pazuzu. To avoid unnecessary reply on this, how do you know and believe for sure there' isn't? are you developing ?iman/believe? towards this guys?s word?
I have seen some, has been deluded by pazuzu truth, not all, only some tiny portion member of the forum perhaps, Alhamdulillah.... in Sha Allah, the garbages will not break outside from its small fans club.
Why did I not brings data to his arguments? For several times now, the point is, whether some brings data or not, the discussion going to be endless debate. Look at the history of this thread and another reply by pazuzu. Some bring another archaeological things, he will call it ?insane?, ?garbage?, part of ?Zionist movement?, and so on. Because he believe his data is the most accurate one (although lack in evidences). Some try to bring linguistic approach, he change the rule of Arabic language (proper noun to noun as he likes) he will stress how the Arabic has been part of lie, how Arab did not understand the language as he is! brickwall
The same thing happen, some bring Hebrew languages and bammm!!! Hebrew languages only has been constructed in late 19th centuries (yet he often quote from old testament)..I think I stressed this matter in this thread to many times ..doh confused? I think even the most resourceful scholars will not win debate with the one who make their own rules and use slander as a responds, I doubt the resourceful scholar even tried to debate him. brickwall
I think you have enough intellectuality to know, out there, among the Archaeologist (a real one!) this topics also becoming an endless debate. The debate between Maximalist versus Minimalist among the scholar (real archaeologist on real expedition, not google base one) happened for quite sometimes now. Bernard Lehman (one of pazuzu ulama) is from the minimalist side as professor Kalibi(another his ulama), whom happned to be lebannese, also from minimalist side ( I might assume there a national interest for pazuzu to defend kalibi's here, I hope I'm wrong). Both sides (maximalist and minimalist) will bring you indisputable archaeological evidences.
You should also probably know, among minimalist also have different views and different agendas, this because the lack of evidences they had. Here, again you might stresses out how maximalist (popular) is cosmetized, fabricated and so on, and the debate never going to end! Let us see how many evidences maximalist discovered had and how many evidences minimalist discovered? Minimalist, (might also supported by you) then says the evidences found ifs fabricated and there we go again the zero sum game.
In the end minimalist will admit the lack evidences they had, compare to the Maximalist (it's a fact). This due to little support they have and get, in terms of funding bravo. So it become the battle to get the funding (we?re talking million and millions of dollars). They are dying to get recognized. Minimalist dying to acquire portion of the ?cake? to prove their hypothesis, theory at best. Their end game? The bible is correct (for both sides)!! Lehman also stating about the funding which is not useful to the other side, why kalibis? did not stand out and get more attention because of funding etc. So, It?s not always black and white brother. nope
Salam
Salam. Pazuzu and his friends wrote about their research and thought. Don't look into their profiles , instead look into what they wrote. Then decide. We should thank them instead of criticize their personality or their style of writing. No one is infallible. If you have anything to add or to show where they make mistake , please write it down for all of us to read. Don't be judgemental.
Muhammad Asad (The Message Of Quran)
3918 who listen to all that is said, and follow the best of it it is they whom God has graced with His guidance, and it is they who are endowed with insight!
ok thank you for the remainder borther.
handshake
The only thing at his profile page that I click is to show his post on this forum, I read them all. I have no intention to do personal attack here, I'm questioning the most fundamental things, his methodology, not in details, but more general terms whether he is credible or not, whether he have solid background or not. Because for me, it such bold statement or thought claiming humanity is at lost as the greatest history is a nothing but a lie. Such a arrogant statements, if I may say.
Should you look at carefully his work, he often attack personally on scholars on many areas, as I recall, only blaming them as a part of Zionist movement, and so on, baseless accusation . He attacked Arabs, Jewish, and so on. So, I hope you are not saying, it's alright for him to tell other, their finding is garbage, part of propaganda, but for others is prohibited to say the same thing about his findings?
Impossible for me or others to show his mistakes, he uses so many hadith, how can we verify his hadith? by giving him another hadith? by giving him another version of history? this will end in indefinite circles, about who is right and who is not. More over, also it seems his creating his own rules on languages, and history etc.
Salam )
Most of popular history garbage and cosmetized naration? I might agree with that. But it does not mean unpopular history is not garbage and not cosmetized. The 'winner' may have propaganda on writing his story but the 'looser' might also have have the same thing.
If your standard like that then, even atheist can give you extensive research with relics, partial quotes from this and that, and quotation to prove God never existed.
I can even brings you books, that claimed prophet Solomon are from java. That books use a lot of research based on relics found Candi borobudur and other relics. The author claims queen of Sheba was Indonesian origin (because there's are old town sabak in central of java). Please note this is only to show that it does not mean not popular history is not Garbages, the above examples are one. Unpopular history even more fragile area because everybody can claim anything they want even without solid evidences and there's no need verification because there's nothing to verified to.
I have said in the first reply, some may be amazed hut some may not and I respect that, including whoever amazed by Pazuzu truth. The problems is the way he state and claimed humanity is at lost because the greatest history turn out to be a lie, not intact with pazuzu (his) story. I hope you understand.
Now I'm waiting pazuzu direct answers, his conclusions about who actually prophet that has been sent to reveal Alquran and where exactly is the alkabah. Maybe you can shred some lights on that
Regarding Isa ibn Maryam that stated in Qur;an is not Iesous, am not going to touch that area, in the end it's only his story. More over, he explicitly eliminating most important factors, in the area of languages, Hebrew languages, Arabic languages and so on. He will tell you only him and certain few understand arabic as most of 90 % arabs did not understand their languages, he also will tell you there are no such thing as Hebrew languages, because the languages has only been constructed in the late 19th centuries. He did that so he can do whatever he wants with the languages to support his truth. He creating his own rules about Semitic languages, most probably, because he think the languages also has been part of Zionist propaganda, that is why I also ask whether he is certified linguist, because I do really want to know his credibility to claim such bold statement.
I'm not going to debate him, it is impossible, even for scholars on respected area of concern (History, linguistic, archaeology..etc) to have discussion with one who created his own rules for everything and stating that rules is the truth because is not part Zionist movement, imperialist, belong to minority ( and so on). I was curious after Hebrew languages is not Hebrew, Arabic is not from it's origins, Jesus is not Isa ibn maryam, Muhammad is not Muhammad, will he goes on saying Allah is not Allah in the end? who knows
may Allah protect us all.
Salam
ok...see ya then D
hehehe are you migration or census officer brother? fyi I'm not lying, AlQur'an did not teach us to become a liar. I was born on April in 1975. Anyway it's not relevant about my age, it's not about seniority, even little babies is the purest among us all. I will respect if there's a teenage boy or teenage girl give his finding on what he believes on AlQur'an, because there's some portion of truth in there. May I ask is there any relevancy to this? ;D
Salam and take care
In your 40's! And you've been a Quranist for more than 20 years! wow!
~ Did you learn something from the Quran alone during these two decades of yours?
I may or may not, depends on one's perspectives. Anyway, not going to explain and defend adn force my finding in AlQur'an here brother, relating to the topics already gave straight and direct answer above.
I just express my opinions on brother pazuzu thread, maybe asking one or two question here )
Salam
Since the name of the thread indicates the serach of Muhammad is end, allow me
Who is Muhammad, or who is the actual prophet that has been given task by Allah to give AlQur;an to humanity? did brother pazuzu finding can named or identified one?
What is the insdisputable al kaba'ah stated in AlQur'an, and where is the exact location since al ka'bah is also albayt alharam, albayt al atiq. This albayt (with isim makrifat - not just bayt), considering the lexical meaning, this al bayt should be the most prominent, in the area wherever the last prophet that people of that time can identified with. So where is it brother? Do not use quotes from hadith to answer this (from historian, from non zionist laymen, etc) just simply straight and direct answer on the conclusions...and the answer is ...
1.....?
2.....?
Salam
_
You wrote 'pazuzu' 17 times!
How old are you anyway!?
Sorry for that brother, maybe because English is not my first language, my English is not perfect my Arabic is more less the same. may I ask what are the relevancy of how many times name pazuzu is said? his nick is pazuzu right? And now, I'm on my forty's
Salam
The Prophet did have daughters (3359, etc) ...
Though the claim that their alleged descendants "reside in Yemen or Indonesia" canNOT be evidenced,
and is completely irrelevant to our salvation, or Divine Guidance for that matter!
yes is irrelevant whether they are the off spring of prophets to our salvation. Maybe you misunderstood my point, read again the above reply regarding this matters, I never meant to point prophet hood on his off springs or seal of the prophet or whatever.
I just merely pointed what pazuzu often blabbering about yemenis, that holds the secret and so on, in contrast most of Yemenis stiil doing Pilgrimage to Mecca. I hope you understand, it pazuzu word about yemenis and what yemeni's are actualy doing. but then again perhaps most the yemenis is part of the lies, part of the conspiracies. Only those who pazuzu talked with is the guided one, completely understandable
Salam
Wa alaikum salam
Everybody is free indeed and nobody is in authority, no.
kirikanan is free to formulate his own opinion/s, like all of us here,
he's entitled to disagree with any theory he deems imperceptible or non-credible!
My respect aside, I too disagree with Pazuzu on a number of issues, ...
notwithstanding, I partly agree with him on several points , ...
Long story short no one is an authority here! G-D alone is.
Convince me through solid* proof.
SLM
Everybody is free to formulate opinions?? why can't I express mine about pazuzu? yay
You are a good one. Historians are God? Is anybody that comes out with a paper title of somehting beyond the need to prove what he says?
Am I saying historian are God? if you study carefully pazuzu thread most of his sources is their (story), historians, hadith at best
You seem to idolize titles, but titles have lied many times whereas persons withou titles have made discoveries and inventions and only afterwards did they get their titles. And there are people with titles which really ar pure decoration.
Look at pazuzu bold claim I quote earlier, I merely stating whether pazuzu have a proper academic education to claim our humanity history has been a lie? how many historian pazuzu used to claim his findings? did he ever properly conducting research or only google based research to come up to such bold claims? then we will wait wheter pazuzu discoveries entitled him academic title, there are disciplines for him to get recognized worldwide. But if only to be recognise here in free-minds, google based research seems proficient enough right?
And you are very condescending, which does not become you unless you really, really are able to bring up even a hundredth of what Pazuzu has already provided in this forum.
First thing I said earlier, I am no expert in related manner, nor historian nor, archaeologist. only pazuzu is the expert and his word are the truth right? His evidences is indisputable and should be treated as facts, his partial quotes from famous books are the truth
Are you annoyed because he does not pander to conspiricy accusers and officialversionists?
Conspiracies theories, imperialist, and so on...(you fill the blank), it all only on his troubled mind. Do you think some phrrases that he quotes will ever be published in this world full of secret organization? he or one will use double standard here
I support Pazuzu and his work because if he uses big claims they are supported by his production and as far as I am concerned I am satisfied that he has brought up and out many things that are worth discovering and knowing, but I doubt that when you have come out with your condescending discourse on Pazuzu you knew anything abut his work.
So may be you should learn that first and then speak.
As I said, some will be amazed, some not, so are you forcing everybody to be amazed by pazuzu truth? I, myself have read 60 pages , each his post from the begining, have you? Maybe, Most of his work time probably is behind the monitor, googling pictures ,surfing, save people images, map images, modify the map to approve his points, buying books or searching journals from online sources he can find, maybe sometimes in library and some time to discuss with his so called team.
I do respect your support on him, AlQur;an can be very confusing, al'kabah and Muhammad is not been found yet, maybe until one dies the alkabah and real muhammad will not be ever found, but wait pazuzu holds the truth right? so please follow him if you must to be saved in here after
Salaam
Wa alaikum salam
You are a people of a dogmatic sect, asserting that the sect's way is 'the way' and bashing other approaches.
How can the Last Prophet had progenies when he is the SEAL OF THE PROPHET?
Talking gibberish!!!
Maybe because of my english is not perfect. What I'm trying to say is the off spring of Prophet Muhammad who you can find a lot in Yemen, Indonesia. Pazuzu often says something like "yemeni hold the secret of truth, if you ask yemenis thy will not answer you"......Most of the offspring of prophet Muhammad in yemeni's are born in Yemen. So it's a matter who are in Yemen did Pazuzu refer to? off course probably the one that did not contradict his truth
Seriously, did you carry out any research from the Quran itself?
You dont even comprehend the Quran.
typical Quranist answer, only you can understand AlQur'an right, only you can comprehend AlQur'an right? only pazuzu is right and his work and word cannot be disturbed, because it serves as THE truth )
So, I never said anything about about prophet-hood seal, which you assume to be handed own to his offspring
I my self is a has been Quran only for more than 20 years, as I recall (more or less). My believe al kabah are the one in Mecca, and one of my prophet is Muhammad. I did not have to defend my believe here, also not forcing my believe, truth to be humanity truth, all I found after studying only Quran. Will you say I'm an kafir, zalim an so on, regarding to your understanding of AlQur'an?
Pazuzu often says 90 percents arab does not understand arabic right? Only him and his follower and perhaps , bunch of people here in free-minds, only understand arabics? bravo Then just believe his truth on humanity. Afterall, Only pazuzu, and bunch of you holds the truth of AlQur'an.
Pazuzu is the master of arabic languanges, master archeologist, master of history, you should believed in him. What he brings from google is a lots, what he bring from quoting partial phrases from related books is a lots, what he bring from letter corresponding with some, h e claimed historian, is a lot.
For me, I did not have to debate my believe and gave my finding on the interpretation of AlQur'an, like most of you actually did in this forum. Iman is in the heart of the believer, Alqur'an has been given and is there for everybody. What you all saying in this forum can be considered as another hadith.
Note this, please do not ever think, just so you are followiing AlQur'an only, then you are believer.
So? can't I express my opinions in this forum? maybe i'm in the worng place then )
Salam