Peace Emre.
Thank you for your thoughts, yes I see the importance of this and while this is something that still rubs me the wrong way, I do agree with you to an extent.
However this isn't the main reason why I'm having these doubts, as I said the main reason isn't that there are things in The Qur'an that I don't understand, it's that there are things in The Qur'an that I understand more if I assume that The Qur'an isn't from God rather from a human, as much as I hate to say it.

But even still with this I Insha Allah hope to not give up on The Qur'an, it's just that, I don't know, it would be nice if there was something, a verse, a principle, a surah, which doesn't make sense if you assume it's from a human, but makes a ton of sense if you assume it's from God.
.

Peace be upon you Emre.

Peace Wakas.
Thank you for your posts, but truth be told they didn't help all that much.
No offense if you made any of these posts, but the first post... admittedly I didn't read much but it doesn't seem all to relevant, please correct me if I'm wrong tho.
But the second post, truth be told scientific miracles in the Qur'an has always felt icky to me, because of the constantly changing nature of science, so using it as proof is a bit ehh in my view, and the literally stuff is literally so subjective, I mean there are a lot of people who claim that a lot of books are wonderful in literature, that doesn't prove if it's Divine or not.
And the prophecies, alright yea this is probably the strongest of the three points, but even here some are a stretch from my view, such as the moon landing stuff.
but yea, the main reason this doesn't resonate with me is that I'm having semi-doubts on more of a principled level, and I said it before and I'll say it again
the conundrum that I'm having is the following, I guess
"if you assume that The Qur'an was written by a human, then almost everything in The Qur'an seems to be designed to benefit the author in one way or another. There doesn't seem to be any inconvenient truths in The Qur'an for the, if you believe so, human author, rather everything seems to align with what a human who would fabricate a text of this magnitude would desire."

But thank you for your post either way, Peace be upon you.

Peace hawk99.
Thank you for your post, your question is truthfully very meaningful.
Admittedly there are a lot of things I hope for, I guess, and admittedly I am staggering a bit in what I want for myself, but to answer your question, 'What would I want from Allah swt."', I would say, more or less

-To know how to do Right by Him, how to live a life that He Approves.

For most of the time The Qur'an served this purpose, and admittedly I came across a lot of conundrums, but now with this conundrum I'm doubting if following The Qur'an would be following what God Wants for us, I do believe He is Merciful , so I'm not saying that anyone who follows The Qur'an would get punished, rather I'm saying if God didn't send down The Qur'an, then I'd rather spend my time elsewhere trying to find what He wants for us, then to use that time interpenetrating The Qur'an, assuming it's falsehood...

I hope I got across what I was going to say...

Peace be upon you hawk, and thank you for your post

Peace emre.

Yes I do see and honestly I do agree, the verses you brought up are cool.
But I still can't lie when I say that, when I read the 8th, 9th, 33rd, or 59th surah, they still seem rather cruel...

But that's not even my main point, my main point is that, idk honestly, I might very well be mistaken, but a lot of these things, the calls to fight back and all that seem written from a human perspective I guess idk, rather then from God's.
I mean God constantly talks about those in patience, and talks about how ultimately this life is just a very short life, and the hereafter is the true home, because it's literally for eternity, but then when The Prophet pbuh and the believers get attacked, all of a sudden God says to fight back?

Like think about it this way, if The Prophet and the believers were never attacked, would those violent verses exist? And if the answer is no, then that seems really unfair

It seems way too reactionary, like times are peaceful The Qur'an is advocating for patience and doing good even in hardship, times turn violent and all of a sudden it's now "fight back", I don't know honestly

In a nutshell it seems like the principle of patience wasn't applied universally, but I don't know honestly I am not in a very good place right now and I think my reasoning and approach is very flawed, I look forward to hearing your response.
Peace.

Peace jkhan, thank you for your reply.

I suppose you're right on the first point, truth be told I would say among all of the other ones, the main reason I do believe in the existence of God is due to His Guidance, I suppose I just have this natural inclination to believe in God, the atheists might say it's because of the fear of the unknown or whatever like that and tbh I don't think that's it, I can't pinpoint exactly why, but I will admit that I don't believe in God on purely 100% rational reasoning alone.

anyway... I am a bit confused on your second point, more specifically "Difference is you are undetermined or reluctant to accept that the complete Quran which came through Prophet couldn’t possibly from the God that you believe 100%. ", don't really know what you mean, but if you mean what I think you mean then yea, I don't believe 100% that The Qur'an is not from God, but unfortunately I don't believe 100% that The Qur'an is from God either.

"then you have to decide neutrally like you decided that God does exist", yea, I guess I did, but tbh I think I did always have this sorta inclination, maybe.
Like the inclination that even if The Qur'an ends up being a complete hoax, that that won't fully destroy my faith in God, because I believe that the concept of The Creator, that God surprasses my understanding of The Qur'an.

"To grasp this one cannot have blind faith… like you, one has to go through all conundrums in life.. Your problematic points in accepting Quran shouldn’t make you feel negative and end from there.. the best way is to find solution to your conundrum within Quran… "
Well, I don't know, honestly, but I have to ask what's wrong with blind faith? isn't all faith blind? I dunno dude, like I think I understand you, but I don't know if I agree.
Because like listen, here's my view
Either Islam / The Qur'an is a Universal Religion or a Local Religion.

A Local Religion would mean that it's like every other religion, you have this book, you accept this book, you accept the beliefs, you're good, and that's that, and if you don't accept the book well you can get another religion, and tbh I'm a bit against this, beacuse it seems like every religion is like this, especially including sunni islam, you either accept the doctrines or you leave, it seems based on faith alone.

But A Universal Religion would be something that has principles which are universally applied, mythology that can be reasoned towards, and to me The Qur'an Alone view seemed to really lean in this direction, with verses like 262 ... and stuff like that.
And honestly it still does seem to lean in that direction which is why I believe it to be closer to the truth then the other religions, but the reason I'm bringing this up is because if you believe that it is a universal religion, as I do, then you believe that you can reason for it's idea of God even without having it directly, because it is the truth, and if you believe that, then we're just back where we started, because we've concluded outside of any religious text that God exists, but that doesn't prove the validity of one text above another, I guess, idk honestly.
"the best way is to find solution to your conundrum within Quran… "
I would and I will still try, God Willingly, but it seems like the answer to my conundrum is just "if you don't believe The Prophet is A Prophet, then you're in for a painful punishment"

And finally for your last point, thanks for your response, but truth be told I think I didn't really convey what I wanted to convey clearly, I've tried to convey it more clearly down below in the semi last paragraph.

"Glad Tidings for whom? For Human being.. so it is something that is pleasant for entire human being… it is not the desire of Prophet alone… "
I know, and I do agree like, if this is sent from God it is glad tidings and warnings as well... but the problem is is that this is only the case if you assume that this is the truth, and not a fabriciation that the messenger made up.
If you assume that it is not the truth, then the 'glad tidings' are not really glad at all since they're not truthful, rather they are false hopes to get his followers to follow him, y'know, that's what I'm trying to get at, if it's false it benefits the prophet, if it's true it benefits the people and the prophet, but the fact is is that if it's false it does still benefit the prophet.

Bear with me because this
"For example… Prophet never wanted to marry his fostered son’s ex-wife… These are not lies… coz these incidents were active in the society… Prophet is shy but not God… What if when Prophet said to his fostered son keep your wife and if his fostered son agreed thinking it is a message from God… Is that a desire of any father to marry his fostered son’s ex-wife? So that desire of prophet aligned with God’s? Well… that’s a blasphemy… isn’t it?""
But here's the thing, if you assume that The Qur'an is fabricated, and that Mohamed was making stuff up, then this does make sense once again.
Mohamed would've wanted to marry his adopted's son ex wife, and then since, in this lens, he fabricated The Qur'an, he could easily claim that God said that he has to marry his adpoted's son ex wife.
I mean to provide an alternative if God said no to him marrying his adopted's son's wife, wouldn't that be more powerful? That would mean that if he really was fabricating stuff, he would be forbidding stuff that he wanted to do, which makes no sense, so in that case it is more logical to assume that at the very least he wasn't maliciously fabricating stuff.
Hope you understood what I'm trying to say.

"When Quran says, All messengers are same and don’t make any distinction with one another… What benefit for Prophet by this verse? Why can’t he make himself more elite than rest of the prophets… Why verse doesn’t state Mohamed is the best prophet ….. you know everyone human has a tendency to have a grip over others.. isn’t it.. Why Mohamed as a messenger is equal with others? Why there is no verse to indicate saying God directly spoke to Mohamed like God talked to Musa? Such things should be desire of Mohamed if he in fact forge verses.."
But you see that's the problem, while at first this seems like a good point, here's the thing
No other messenger is/was alive at the time of Mohamed.
So when Mohamed claims that he is no more elite then any other Messenger, while that sounds good at first, it literally doesn't affect him because there is no other messenger alive that would take from his elite-ness.
This verse, if you assume it's a fabrication, would basically be saying "Messengers are more elite then normal people, I'm not better then any other messenger, but I'm also the only alive messenger, therefore I am the only elite person alive"
It ultimately doesn't affect him, all it does is once again benefit him because his followers could claim what you are claiming.

"Still if you are not convinced, let me ask in this manner…. As per you, you do believe in God.. That’s great… So, are you saying that God is silent without letting his Creations know that He wants us to behave in such and such manner? So we are free creatures to do whatever we feel right since Quran or Torah or any other book or Messengers who came before all liar possibly…"
This... honestly is a good question, but it's still not really anything super solid, because you could apply the same thing to the people who didn't have The Qur'an for the last millenium or so, people in japan or rural africa who never heard of The Qur'an, what about them?
But yea no this is still a good question.

Thank you for bearing with me and honestly I did once again approach this in a negative manner, apologies for that, I am eagerly awaiting your reply and I hope I wasn't too harsh...

Honestly I did ramble quite a bit, if you wish to respond, and I would appreciate that, here would be the main thing I'd like your view on, my main conundrum so far in a nutshell, I guess
'If you assume that The Qur'an is inspired by God, a lot of things make sense... but there are also a lot of things don't line up, like killing / war, worldy life, etc.
But if you assume that The Qur'an is written by a human living in the 7th century, a lot more things make sense, and the things that previously made sense seem to make more sense through this lens. Hell, Killing / War, Worldy Life, Punishments, Threats, that's my main conundrum, the fact that, if you believe it is from God, 60% of things make sense, 40% of things don't make sense, and if you assume it's from a human from the 7th century, it seems like 95% of the things make sense, 5% of the things maybe don't make sense.

So my question in a nutshell is, are there any verses / themes / principles from The Qur'an that, should it be viewed from a human 7th century lens, just wouldn't make sense at all for it being there, but should it be viewed from the 'Inspired by God' lens, it makes a lot more sense?'

Thank you for your reply honestly and apologies if I misconstrued anything you said, truth be told I am having a bit of difficulty understanding what you're trying to get across, but I hope I understood the main points you were making.
Peace.

Peace good logic.
Thank you for your post, it did resonate with me.
I do think you're right, and ultimately, Insha Allah, despite these doubts I don't think I'll dismiss The Qur'an entirely, or at all.
Admittedly though since these doubts The Qur'an did take a peg down from "It is 99.99% from God" to "It might be from God, I'll try to take a look, and I'll try not to dismiss it, but ultimately I don't know for certain"
I don't know, honestly, like I do still hope that God will increase me in knowledge and I'll be able to figure out the answer to the question I posed, the one about desires and whatnot, since that is the main one bugging me currently, but I dunno.
Thanks for your post and peace.

Peace, alright well here's what I have to say, please bear with me

First of all thank you for reading what I have to say and for then responding as well, yes I will admit that I was a lot more negative in my post then was fair, and the main reason for that is because I feel that throughout me reading The Qur'an, I was being overtly positive, like I'd find something that didn't make sense I'd usually ignore it, and honestly I don't think that's a bad approach especially if The Qur'an is from God, since we aught to be patient with stuff we don't understand, but still because I did feel as if I had been positive with The Qur'an for the most part, I felt a need to be negative here.
Plus if we can, God Willingly, debunk these arguments, I think it would be more powerful to debunk the steelman version of the arguments then the neutral versions, if that makes sense.
Because idk if I made this clear or not but while I was negative in my post I don't denounce The Qur'an at all, I'm, Insha Allah, not doing a 180 and saying it's all falsehood 100% or even that it isn't from God, in fact I hope I'm wrong for a majority of points, but idk I felt the need to get these points off of my chest and hopefully Insha Allah either debunk them, or see that they do hold water, and in that case I'd probably try to idk find something else idk.

Anyway the second point, um, five reasons are a lot but here's my attempt I guess, but keep in mind I am very much so influenced by The Qur'an + these may be weak bcz I didn't really have a lot of time to flush things out

1). Creation implies if not demands a Creator , especially Creation as intrecate as ours, granted this doesn't tell us much about The Creator, but there are certain things you can derive from the fact, like for example The Creator can't really be less powerful then it's Creation.
2). taking something else as Lord, I realized, say I became an atheist or something, I would just end up taking something else as my Lord, as my purpose, be it family, career, a hobby, a community, etc. Ultimately if I wanted to live a meaningful life I realized I'd probably end up picking something as my crux, so then realizing I'll probably end up doing so, I decided to choose God, The Creator, as my crux I guess.
3). I dunno dude death I guess, we'll all die and I do believe that once we do we'll know a bit more then we do now, and I do wanna be sincere and truthful and truthfully I do believe God exists, I guess, idk
4). I dunno Life's beautiful and even if there's a 0.00001% chance that God exists I still want to Thank Him for giving me life and hopefully do right by Him
5). If we're talking about God's Existence, the fact that life exists is just reason enough on it's own that I aught to try and do right by God, it might not convince people that He Exists and truth be told I don't care, this isn't about their belief it's about mine, I would phrase it like this 'I exist, there's a possibility of a Creator, just the fact that I exist is reason enough to try and do right by Him"

6). personal but I did promise to myself, and I suppose to God, that I would believe & have faith in Him no matter what, not always in The Qur'an or The Bible, but always in Him.
7). faith I guess, I chose to have Faith in Him.
8].plus there's like an inherit sort of sense that He does idk what to say.

dude idk but yeah, idk, am sounding very uncertain in these points but it's cause I am, like the first point's probably the strongest point, maybe the 5th one is as well, but ultimately I believe in God because I just do idk what to say.
But if you wanna make the argument that, because idk, if The Qur'an isn't holy then that means that The Creator doesn't exist, I don't think that really holds water because like, if I say "the sky is blue but also pigs fly", and you don't believe that I'm telling the truth, that doesn't mean the sky isn't blue, y'know.

But okay I digressed, anyway yea I agree there are a lot of questions, but I guess my two most important ones would be, and they sort of go hand in hand

-From my perspective there are a ton of proofs that God Exists, as The Qur'an points out as well , but the problem I have is Proving that God Exists != Proving that The Qur'an is from God, the only proof we have for that is that it claims to be from God, and the problem with that, well, is that there are a lot of other people who also claim that they are from God, and plus that doesn't really suffice as proof since technically anyone can claim anything to be from God and they'd be on the same level as The Qur'an, right? I mean I dunno...

Perhaps a possible piece of proof would be if it was clear that The Messenger and the One whom he claims to speak for are clearly different entities, but the problem with that is, and truthfully what got me into the whole debacle, is the question?

-Is there anything in The Qur'an which goes against The Prophet's desires / is there anything in The Qur'an which proves that God's (in the Qur'an) desires and The Prophets desires don't always align?

And the problem I have is that it seems like... no, it seems like everything in the Qur'an also conveniently either benefits the prophet, or doesn't really affect the prophet that much.

So in a nutshell, two main questions

-let's assume that God Exists, how does that prove that The Qur'an is from God?
-is there anything in The Qur'an which shows that God's (in the Qur'an) desires and The Prophets desires don't always align?

peace Good Logic, God bless you too...

I dunno, I still am very confused and I do hope God will Guide me to the right path...
I do agree that the conclusion of "Neglect all needs & wants of the Worldy Life" does seem to be a bit strange, for one it seems to contradict a few Qur'anic themes, for example to my knowledge none of the Prophets pbut outright neglected this present life, Solomon pbuh even wanted a kingdom, in what I'm assuming is this life
And another thing doing good deeds, how could one do good deeds if not in this life, and if it is in this life, then what's the definition of doing a good deed? Isn't it making people's lives better for the sake of God? Like when you give food to the poor, you're improving their WORLDY life, and if they take the food that means they desired the food, aka they desired the worldy life? Idk.
And gratitude too, technically is possible but seems a bit strange.

This is assuming of course that the worldy life = exclusively this birth life, from birth till death, the Hereafter = PURELY something after death, and Desires = any old wants, including wanting the Hereafter AND the worldy life but still wanting the worldy life.

So maybe there's a misunderstanding somewhere... hopefully... if God wills...

but yea, these verses do still exist and they do still imply the above, that wanting anything from this life, striving to have a comfortable life, could/will lead you to hell, and truth be told I still don't know what they could mean if not that, really hope God will Increase me in knowledge on this one...

anyway yea thank you for your posts, I am a bit more calmed down then when I originally posted the original post tho I do believe we need to ponder these two verses a lot more, but for now I guess I have to try and be patient, and really really hope that wanting to lead a comfortable life isn't a massive sin, and if it is, hoping that God will Forgive me.

God bless and peace out...

peace Anoushirvan, thank you for your post and God bless you.

If I'm being honest idk what you mean 100%, I guess you're saying that it doesn't mean "sac all worldy desires" but rather it means "don't assume this world is the Hereafter", in response to some Jews?
Idk if you believe in the Qur'an or not, that it's a Divine Revelation, but I do, and while your post was interesting and a good read, I don't think that's the beginning and end of this, and I don't think that the whole of the Qur'an advocates for the fact that "the worldy life is a prison", one of the main Tenets of the Qur'an is doing good deeds, and I don't think it means doing good deeds after you die.
And another is Gratitude for all that God created in, I'm assuming, this world, as after we die we'll be returned to God so Gratitude would be kinda null.
Of course if you believe it isn't Divine you might brush this off as saying that the Qur'an is inconsistent but I do believe it is Divine, and I do believe there is a deeper message here God Willingly and hopefully tho I do not know yet what it is.
Either way thank you for your post and peace out.

peace, I did not leave out the context maliciously, I just don't think it really explains much.

I just don't get that it's "those people exclusively" it'd be like saying that killing believers is alright as long as you're a believer, and that the rule for 'don't kill' is only directed at the disbelievers, because in 492 it says don't kill but 491 talks about disbelievers.

this is a tremendous thing and I'm sure God didn't leave anything out, He could've easily said "those who desire the worldy life from among the disbelievers", or smth, but God didn't.

sad but idk.

peace

Peace!

Thank you for your comment, but if I'm being entirely honest here I'm not sure what the intent of your comment was?
I'm aware that the word is used in multiple contexts.
I'm just saying that when l-qurba is used in the context of relatives, e.g do good with them, 436, does this mean just biological relatives or could it also mean those who are near e.g near friends or of the like.
Honestly I don't lean on either side particularly, if it is just biological relatives then cool, glad that's cleared up, if it l-qurba encapsulates biological relatives as well as near companions, then cool glad there's a bit more then meets the eye at first.
My post was really a sort of post to inspire though, posting it when I realized that in the lexicon, l-qurba is used sparingly as actual biological relative, rather more as both a biological relative but also a general near person, be it a relative, friend, acquaintance, etc. so I posted it so that perhaps someone with more knowledge of arabic could clear it up or perhaps it would inspire a discussion about the word.

Apologies if I sounded a bit rude, just a bit confused on what you were trying to get across with your post, that's all.

436, would this be referring to only biological people who are related to you by blood, or people generally who are near to you, either physical like your neighbors, or mentally like a close friend, or a bit of both like your roommates, for example.
The translators did translate it as biological people related, e.g relatives, but I'm wondering if perhaps this doesn't do justice to the arabic word, or if it is fine as it fits what the arabic word intends]

Either way I do still appreciate your post, thanks for taking the time to respond!

God bless and peace out!

Salam lads

@Jafar I don't think I'll go line by line on your comments, but I will say I do think your ideas are interesting, I do think your ideas might actually have some truth.
I will say a few things though...

1. with "humans" I meant souls, I do believe that humans aren't limited to just our bodies, as Adam pbuh was created with dirt, but had Ruh breathen into him.

2. with the 10 years ago yourself analogy I do get what you're going for but folks, including myself, do judge their old selves. Usually when they look back they see themselves as cringy, or naive, or a number of other things.
   But I do get what you're going for, I do think that's a solid outlook to have, not looking down at other people due to their actions and/or beliefs, but looking at them as one looks at one's younger self, a naive person who still has the chance to grow.
   The Qur'an does warn of arrogance (3118, 1075, 3215), and I do think that which you said is legit good advice.
   So yeah, maybe I misunderstood, but I do think we agree here... more or less...

3. with the "arm going limp", I meant it moreso in a way where the arm acts against your needs, aka how some people treat other people poorly, if you look at other people as a part of YOU, and then that part of YOU harms you... what then?

4. and your final point, I don't think I'll judge the "10 years ago" me, and I won't punish him either, and I have made some mistakes.
   But at the same time, that's different, for the mistakes I have regretted and repented and I hope not to make the same mistake again, if God wills.
   How do I say this... I don't know everything yet and I probably never will, but for now at least I do still believe that, if the "10 years ago" me did something drastic, like murder, and then I haven't repented nor regretted and the reason why I still don't do murder isn't because I've changed but because I'm not able to... well then, I don't really know.
   I don't really know...

I suppose the only problem I have with your theory is that it seems a bit too idealistic, if there was a basis for it, a basis for "if you believe others won't be punished you won't be punished" in the Holy Qur'an or even another Holy Book if that's what you believe in, but it seems to be formed on a personal experience basis... which tbh might be the strongest basis a person can have, but at the same time yeah... no real basis, I guess.

I'll just suggest that you live your life as if there will be judgement, as if there will be accountability, we'll see in the end.

But I do appreciate your ideas, as well as your willingness to respond, thank you for your response and thank you for your kindness.
This probably will be, for the time at least , my last response for now.

@good logic I think I agree with your points, one should reflect yeah.

Yeah well anyway that's about it, I will say if you good logic and jafar wanna continue the conversation I do think you should open up a new thread as this has gone a bit off-topic, not really related to 4216.
If anyone wants to say something on 4216 feel free to post.
But yeah anyway either way thank you guys for your responses, praise be to God, God bless you all , and peace!

Salam.

Hope I'm not clogging up your replies, but I don't have much else to say other then I think you took a fine look and I do think your interpretation is correct.
I'm not a qualified person, heck, probably the least qualified on here, but I do think you're right with this one.

I will say though, this phrase of "Whether you hide it or say it, God knows it" is, from what I know, rather frequently said in the Qur'an, it seems that the meaning of this phrase being that nothing is hidden from God, even if you reveal it it to no one, God knows it .

Here are a few examples of the verses which God says it, Pickthall English translation

329, "Say, (O Muhammad) Whether ye hide that which is in your breasts or reveal it, Allah knoweth it. He knoweth that which is in the heavens and that which is in the earth, and Allah is Able to do all things."
330, "On the Day when every soul will find itself confronted with all that it hath done of good and all that it hath done of evil (every soul) will long that there might be a mighty space of distance between it and that (evil). Allah biddeth you beware of Him. And Allah is Full of Pity for (His) bondmen."
331, "Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind) If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."
332, "Say Obey Allah and the messenger. But if they turn away, lo! Allah loveth not the disbelievers (in His guidance)."

3354, "Whether ye divulge a thing or keep it hidden, lo! Allah is ever Knower of all things."

1310, "Alike of you is he who hideth the saying and he who noiseth it abroad, he who lurketh in the night and he who goeth freely in the daytime."

So I dunno, the way I interpreted it is that nothing can be hidden from God, and that hiding a deed that you've done will do you no good, because God will reveal it, or bring you to account for it, on the day of judgement.
Like for 1310, for example, one could interpret it to mean Alike is the one who (thinks the thought in his head about his) speech and the one who proclaims it, but I moreso see it as Alike is the one who (says the negative speech, then attempts to hide it from others) as the one who (openly proclaims said negative speech).

Also, I think I should note that there's also ayats like these, which do seem to suggest that the disbelievers, aka the punished, will only be requited for that which they used to do

4528, "And thou wilt see each nation crouching, each nation summoned to its record. (And it will be said unto them) This day ye are requited what ye used to do."

3739, "Ye are requited naught save what ye did - "

3433, "Those who were despised say unto those who were proud Nay but (it was your) scheming night and day, when ye commanded us to disbelieve in Allah and set up rivals unto Him. And they are filled with remorse when they behold the doom; and We place carcans on the necks of those who disbelieved. Are they requited aught save what they used to do?"

All three of these use the arabic word Eml, which seems to be the word mainly used for Action, for Works, not for Thoughts.
Though there are a few others which use not the arabic word Eml, such as

8336, "Are not the disbelievers paid for what they used to do? ", which uses fEl, but yeah looking at corpus this seems to be mainly used as "Do", too.

I suppose one could take a look at all the instances where Eml and fEl are used in the Qur'an in order to gain a greater understanding, but I would say for now at least that it seems to me that God will not requite folks aught for that which they used to do.
But with that said I do think thoughts are important, not as important as actions, but I do think if one is fantasizing about killing their friend 24/7, I think that's not a thing one should do.
Do I think they'll be judged as if they killed their friend if they never end up doing so? I'd say no but I don't know for sure.
Maybe it can also do with intentions, if you genuinely intend to kill your friend but you just can't find the means or you're not successful, perhaps that has something to do with it.
Unless you repent, yeah.

I dunno tbh I'm not that knowledgeable, and I probably didn't bring much new to the table, hopefully someone with a bit more knowledge and experience can respond, but
yeah, those are my two cents.

Also yeah fair point @Euphoric, read the previous verse too, the context.

Praise be to God, God bless, and peace!

an interesting theory, it may actually be a solid explanation to the unfortunate things, both in the world and the unfortunate non-understandings of the Qur'an, props!

I think we agree too syeah, I too believe things will get returned to the same source, to the Lord of all Worlds.

only thing I don't get is your ending statement, "Both exist... choose which one is your position...", alright, how would I do that? It seems like you're implying if you believe that others are part of yourself then you're the IS if you believe otherwise you're the IS NOT, which I... disagree.
I don't believe others are myself nor do I believe myself are others.
I do believe that we're all humans? I do believe that we're all the creation of God? But I also believe that other people are responsible for their deeds, and I am responsible for mine.

I don't think others should be held accountable for what I did nor others held accountable for what I did.

Plus even outside of accountability, I don't think others and I share the same... being, I guess?

Plus I also don't 100% see your logic, if the IS sees others as part of their own selves, then when the others don't listen, wouldn't the IS get mad too? Like compare it to your arm all of a sudden going limp or even going against what you want to do, even though it's a part of you you'd still get frustrated, no?

I do think I misunderstood you on the last point though, and honestly overall I do think we agree on a few things? But I'm not sure.

Anyway thank you for your reply Jafar, I appreciate it.
God bless you, may God guide us both to the right path, and peace out!

Rather ominous...
I suppose you're implying that Allah swt in the Qur'an is, God forbid, one of these negatives?

I mean, I'll admit that the whole "Hell", "Wrath", "Evil in the world" stuff present in the Qur'an, is probably one of the biggest questions/non-understandings I have, and I.. unfortunately don't have an answer yet.
But nonetheless I trust in and believe in God, and I hope He shall Guide me to the right path.
You might be asking how does that transfer over to believing in The Holy Qur'an well, I suppose the original reason would be because I was born into it, but I don't think that's the only reason I continue to believe in it...
The Qur'an frequently says that the messenger was sent to bring good tidings, and to give warnings . There are a few times when it is said to the messenger to bring tidings of a punishement too , so there's that as well.
But the Qur'an makes clear that The Qur'an is sent to give warnings (very interesting..), warnings, cautions, etc.] , and to give good tidings to the believers , as well as guidance, healing, and a mercy .

Now that I got that out of the way, here's my point.
The guidance, mercy and healing is subjective, and being honest I did find those things in the Qur'an personally but I can't guarantee everyone will.
But I want to focus on the other two main things.

The good tidings... Life can be a bit unfortunate times, but to know that death is not the end, that there will be justice in the end, and that the earth and heavens weren't made in vain, it definitely is good tidings, and so I agree, I do believe the Qur'an does definitely give good tidings to folks who read it.

The warnings... now either the warnings are malarkey, or they're not, the nature of warnings is to warn, to let folks now that something is coming and that they should be prepared.
And I do wish to heed this, I do wish to be prepared for these warnings. In the end if only God knows if these warnings are truthful or not, I do believe they are, so I will prepare, try to be a righteous, pious, doer of good believer, and upon God is the next existence.
But yes, I do believe the Qur'an does offer warnings too, whether you believe they're truthful or not,

Now I know just because a book gives you warnings does not mean it's divine, that's not what I'm stating, I'm just saying that There's this book, the Qur'an, it talks about God, The Hereafter, The Meaning of Life, and the things do seem truthful, and it contains guidance and mercy, and it seems to contain the universal truth, things that seem natural in nature, more or less.
With this in mind, it also says that it contains warnings, and considering everything, I do wish to heed these warnings, to not be of the heedless.
Will other people from other religions go to Hell, suffering forever? I'll be honest I don't know, reading the Qur'an at times it does seem like it, but at other times it seems like there's hope.
All I can say it's up to God, if He Willed, He could punish us all, if He Willed, He could forgive us all, it's up to Him, and on that day the dominion will solely be His.

TL;DR I understand that the whole "Evil and God" conundrum is unfortunate, it's one of my biggest questions/non-understandings and unfortunately I don't have an answer yet...
But I believe in and trust in God, in the Lord of the Worlds, and while I don't think I can really prove nor convince anyone at this moment to believe too, I believe in the Qur'an too because it's, I believe, sent by the Lord of the Worlds, it contains good tidings and warnings, the good tidings align with what I believe, so I will heed the warnings too.
That's about it.

God bless you Jafar, thank you for your post, may God guide us both to the right path, and peace out!

@ Emre_1974tr

Thank you for the response!

Yes, I see now, I do think now that hopefully the original assumption of "does The Qur'an discourages arguing with this verse" is put to rest.
I do feel like some folks could still interpret it that way, it's unfortunately, at least in my mind, not 100% waterproof that it isn't, but honestly I do think the possibility is way lower now.
I appreciate your replies Emre! And also If anyone else has anything to say feel free to do so, while I don't think the interpretation of "all arguments are banned" is the most likely anymore, I do believe there may be a deeper interpretation, don't know what it could be, but yeah.

Anyway God Bless you, Emre, and peace out!

@Emre_1974tr

Thank you for your response!
I know that the Qur'an does mention pagans in a negative light, and I know that especially it mentions them arguing with false arguments, more or less, and claims this in a negative light .
I'm just saying in this specific verse and this specific surah, how can we be sure that this is talking exclusively about the pagans?

Just as when the Qur'an states to not kill the soul which God has forbidden , and we understand it to not just be to the pagans, how can we be sure about the same thing here?

In other words I'm asking if you have some ayats which can prove that this is either restricted to the pagans, or this that arguing is encouraged for the non-pagans.

And listen dude I hope you don't think that I'm malicious or that I'm trying to get a "gotcha" moment, I just stumbled upon this verse, and I would like to understand it as such that if someone were to ask me what it means that I can explain concisely, not just saying "it's for pagans only" and leave it at that.

Thanks for responding man, really appreciate it, looking forward to hearing your response back!
Praise be to God, God bless, and peace out!

@Emre_1974tr, well, yes I do agree, but Idk.
if someone who rags on islam, and claims it doesn't allow arguing, and points to this verse as an example, what are some verses that support arguing? I know there's verses on reflection and intelligence, but are there any on arguing in the traditional sense?
And also I feel like we shouldn't just dismiss this ayat, especially due to the consequences, you claim that "What is prohibited here is not argue. To believe in superstitions prohibited here is to have pagan beliefs. ", but I don't see anything about pagan beliefs mentioned here?

Don't get me wrong, I do really believe that this surface-level interpretation of "arguments in religion are forbidden" is wrong, I just find it difficult A). proving that it's wrong using other ayats and B). seeing what other interpertations there are

Peace and God Bless!

@ Iyyaka
Hmm, now that you mention it, the previous ayat does say this, pickthall translation
"4215, Unto this, then, summon (O Muhammad). And be thou upright as thou art commanded, and follow not their lusts, but say I believe in whatever scripture Allah hath sent down, and I am commanded to be just among you. Allah is our Lord and your Lord. Unto us our works and unto you your works; no argument between us and you. Allah will bring us together, and unto Him is the journeying."

the word "argument" here, is Hjj, same as the one used in the original verse.

Maybe that's a clue but I still don't know what's up.

@Emre_1974tr
I do agree that it would be strange for God to criticize arguments in the Qur'an but how can we be so sure? I mean, I appreciate your reply but from a Quranic perspective how can be we sure?

tbh I'm still rather confused, so if anyone has any ideas & thoughts, please share!

Peace out and God bless both of you!

Having a bit of a crisis of faith right now, the emotions have subsided a bit, so my writing might sound a bit too calm but I am still very much unsure of everything.
This will be a bit of a ramble, so bear with me, and there's a tl;dr at the end of the post with the main questions I have.

And let me be absolute clear here, I believe in God 100%, granted assuming The Qur'an is falsehood , I wouldn't know much about God... but still I do believe in God, I do believe in a Creator, in The Creator, so keep that in mind, I'm not an atheist nor do I plan to be, ever.

In a nutshell, here’s my conundrum

Let’s assume you are alive when The Prophet pbuh is alive too and he is preaching The Qur’an.
Now, within this context, you have two options
A). Believe that The Prophet pbuh is sent from God
B). Believe that The Prophet pbuh is speaking from his own accord

Now, let’s go back to the present day context, you can still
A). Believe that The Qur’an is from God
B). Believe that The Qur’an is from a Human in the 7th century

Now the problem that I have is that, if you assume A, it does make sense, but there are a lot of things which either 1). seem really unfortunate, or 2). don’t make sense, for example
-Eternal Punishment? God is the Doer of what He Wills and, I it is possible, but it just, it sounds so unfortunate, like no second chances, it’s so sad.
-Killing / Waging War, honestly even if it was self defense it just seems too glorified to be coming from God, the disbelievers seem absolutely dehumanized, but even beyond that killing seems to be presented as an actual good thing rather then a deplorable but unfortunately necessary thing, “Striving in The Way Of God” and all that...
-Even The Day seems a bit arbitrary at times, for example there are different accounts given on what will occur on that day, but the most unfortunate thing from my view is the fact that there doesn’t even seem to be anything certain, since the implication is everyone will account for their deeds they did in this life, but then it is mentioned multiple times that the disbelievers deeds will be nullified, so it’s as if they didn’t do anything good, ergo I don’t understand.

For all I can provide verses if needed, and truth be told perhaps my memory is failing me on some specific things but I think the overall point still stands, unfortunately.

But here are the two unfortunate things I’ve come to realize as well

1. If you say that these verses, for example, the killing verses are contextual or even metaphorical, that still begs the question, if you were alive during The Prophet pbuh’s time, would they be seen as metaphorical?
   I feel like if I was alive during The Prophet pbuh’s time, and those verses were recited, it would be expected of me from both maybe The Prophet and the people, to go pick up a sword and slay people, like physically execute them, go into a village and pillage things, and all that, as it seems people have done when you read verses like the 8th one or the 33rd one or the 47th one, or the 59th one.

2. The more unfortunate realization… a lot of these things, if not all of these things, make 10x times more sense if you look at The Qur’an as from a human.

I’ll even go into it right now, here are all of the things that I didn’t and still don’t understand, but when I look at this from the perspective of “This is written by a human”, they seem to make more sense...
And before I do I'll admit, I am being super nihilistic here, more so then usual, more so then even I believe, but since I have for the most part believed in The Qur'an I do feel the need to take a look at this as a devil's advocate, to see if the arguments against it would stand, so please bear with me and understand I am being a bit more harsher in my arguments to hopefully get to the bottom of this.

Worldy Life / Hereafter
This is probably one of the SECOND most biggest things I never got and still don't, The Worldy Life and The Hereafter.
And by worldy life we're going to assume it means this present life, from birth till death, and that being that.

And I have... just a ton of questions here, just a ton.

But most of the questions are intertwined with the other things, so when I get to those points I'll bring up the Worldy Life again... but just keep the following in mind
The Qur'an, based on my knowledge, seems to HEAVILY imply that the worldy life is absolutely useless, at first I thought it was a passive thing until I stumbled upon 1115-16 wherein it states that desiring the worldy life can LITERALLY lead you to hell, like just that deed alone, wanting the worldy life, can lead you to hell.
Now to my understanding I do agree with the sentiment that the worldy life isn't all there is, and it certainly isn't the most important thing out there, but to denounce it to the point where just WANTING it, not doing anything evil to get it, just WANTING it, is ENOUGH to be TORMENTED for all of ETERNITY, is just mind boggling to me.

But another point that I just don't understand, is that God created this world, and it talks in The Qur'an about the beautiful sings of God throughout nature, but then it claims that desiring this world is hell-worthy... I don't understand, why would The Creator of the World denounce The World?!? I don't know, it's not a solid point but I just don't understand it.

But if you look at it from a human perspective… if you convince your followers that the present life is absolutely useless, they do become easier to manipulate...

Hell
I still don't understand why God would punish people eternally.
It is possible, and God is the Doer of what He Wills, and if He wants to do so there is literally nothing stopping Him, but I still don't get it.
When a disbeliever dies and is sentenced to Hell, what's the point of the punishment really, like what difference would it make if the disbeliever just ceased to exist versus the disbeliever being in eternal pain, I just don't understand, what does God get out of punishing disbelievers?
In other words, the punishments on this world are seen as signs for the other people to mend their ways, but once The Day Occurs, that's it, if you were good you were good if you were bad you were bad, you aren't going to be able to mend your ways, so what's the point of causing pain to the people in hell at that point other then just to cause pain.

Let me put it this way when people punish other people in this world, they mainly do so to either avert the person that did the crime, or to avert other people from doing the crime. But in The Hereafter the person who did the crime is going to get punished endlessly, and the other people who didn't do the crime won't ever get a chance to do the crime.
It's still possible and if God truly plans to do so ultimately it is His Right to do so... I just don't get why, y'know, especially considering mercy and all that...

But if you look at it from a human perspective, it feeds into the fear thing, because if you don't want Hell you have to Obey God, and the way to Obey God is by obeying this human messenger

Fear
I do understand the purpose of Fear and specifically Fearing God, but I never understood why the painful torments are mentioned so frequently in The Qur'an.
If you believe it, if you believe in God, why are you being constantly reminded of what will happen if you stop believing? Why is the majority of The Qur'an threats rather then guidance on what to do once you start believing, ways to show kindness, patience, respect for others, etc? Why are the threats even a main part of The Qur'an, either you are a A). Believer, in which case you would want to do right by God even if there were no consequences for not doing so , or B). Non-believer, in which case you'll dismiss the threats either way?

But if you see it from a human perspective, then it does make sense, you would need the threats to remind your followers that if they ever leer away, there would be consequences.

Killing / War
This is, without a doubt, one of the biggest if not the biggest issues I have with my understanding of The Qur'an.

The Numerous, NUMEROUS calls for Killing, and War, and Violence, to my understanding.
First before I even get to the main point, I need to just answer a few common rebuttals to this point before anything.

”It’s Self Defense Only”
This doesn’t really explain at all why it’s glorified so much within the Qur’an, “Fighting / Killing in God’s Way” and all that… it seems to be presented not as an absolute deplorable last resort, but rather as a virtue even, of sorts.
And I’m not talking just about the 929 or 95, it’s just that the general overall feel seems to be that of a warring religion, as I said above, just read the 8th surah, or the 33rd, or the 59th one, or the 47th one.
I mean 3313 and 3316 EVEN MENTIONS FLEEING, if you can FLEE, then it’s not SELF DEFENSE now IS IT?
And if you say that it’s “self defense” in the context of “lets fight these people before they fight us”, or “lets fight these people to restore our land”, then at that point you really can justify any sort of killing, at that point all Putin needs is to be a “Prophet” and he is doing the right thing.

And all of this without even going into the main crucial point, which is, as I said above, “THE WORLDY LIFE”, as The Qur’an states before, if the worldy life really is that useless… THEN SELF DEFENSE DOESN’T FLY.
If the worldy life is useless, and killing is a sin, then it is 100000x times better to endure the persecution and get your reward on The Day, in The Hereafter, then to fight back and kill people and earn sins.

And I don’t understand this either, if it’s self defense due to persecution, there are numerous verses about patience and how one should be patient in times of persecution, and if the Hereafter is the true home, then I don’t see why God would order people to kill other people rather then order them to patience, sure the people probably would prefer to kill the people who are slaying them, but God knows, and the people should know, that the true justice will be delivered on The Day.

”It’s Metaphorical”
Possibly… and I hope so Insha Allah, but it just doesn’t seem likely, considering all of the verses and surahs that imply that it isn’t...
Plus you have to wonder if you were alive during The Prophet pbuh’s time, would he see it as metaphorical? Or would he expect you to prep up and start ending the lives of people?

”God doesn’t see killing certain people as a sin / a bad thing”
I get that no one probably says this, but it remains as a point nonetheless.
If this is the case, then I can’t really believe that this is from God, I can’t really believe that God, The Creator of the Universe, would want us to slay each other, despite the reason, especially if this world isn’t even all that there is.
So yea, if this was the case I don’t know if I could believe that The Qur’an is from God.
But if it was from God, and if God truly was 100% ordering us to kill other people, then I guess I would comply, and I would have to trust God that it’s the right way…
But I would NOT do this if there was even a 1% CHANCE that I was wrong, I would have to be 1000000% SURE that GOD, the one TRUE LORD was ordering us to slay others, to even consider doing this.
And so far there is no 100% proof that The Qur’an is from God, at least not that I know, that’s 100%, without a doubt.

Well, that’s the main points I know, um, yeah.
Well I think I said what I wanted to say regarding this topic.
The killing and calls to kill are, from my perspective, the main issue I have with my understanding of the Qur’an.

“Killing innocents is evil, and Killing people should be avoided as much as possible” is one of my core moral beliefs, more or less, and I think it’s evident, if someone killed your mother I think you would not be happy in the slightest .
I don’t know if Killing anyone ever has ever brought anyone good, except in the extreme case scenarios where that person that you killed was like hitler or something.
And even then the main crime of hitler was killing other people.

And to believe that God, the LORD of the WORLDS, would not only not condone such a thing but would actively encourage it… it just doesn’t compute.

I don’t understand why God would order such a thing.
I don’t understand how God would order such a thing.
I don’t understand if even God would order such a thing.

So unless there’s a massive misunderstanding, if The Qur’an is truly claiming this… I don’t know if I can believe that The Qur’an is from God.

And I hate to say it, but if you look at it from a human’s perspective… it once again makes sense.
Killing other people had numerous benefits in history, for one you’d have more power, more reign, there really isn’t any negative to killing other people assuming you’re in power, except for a moral reason, and if you use God to justify this, then the moral reason becomes no more as well.

Justice on The Day of Judgement
This once again I don’t understand, I already said it before but the most logical thing, and the thing that my understanding of The Qur’an seems to claim at times is that, more or less
“People will be held accountable for what they did on The Day of Judgement, all that they did will be recorded, and nothing will be neglected, they will be held accountable for what they did, both good and bad”
Which honestly sounds fair and sounds reasonable and sounds logical.

But THEN other times it is said that there are people who’s deeds will be rendered NULL, it will be as if they did NOTHING, which just doesn’t make sense?

Like this is mentioned multiple times but to bring up a verse which I just don’t understand again
492, ‘O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of the Prophet, and do not speak loudly to him, as you speak loudly to one another, lest your works be in vain without you realizing.’, clearquran.com translation
What kind of justice is this? If you speak loudly to The Prophet (pbuh, if he is a real prophet), then your deeds are in vain? All that you did is for naught if you speak loudly towards the prophet what is this honestly please someone explain.

But once again if you look at it from a human’s perspective, if you threaten people that, even if their deeds are good, that their deeds could be nullified if they don’t listen to you, if they believe you they would obey you more easily.

”Just A Warner”
this is mentioned frequently, it is said frequently that The Messenger , is ‘just a warner’, which okay does make sense I guess y’know.

But the thing is if you look at it from a human perspective, aka if The Messenger wasn’t actually sent by God, it seems so malicious.
I mean basically what’s happening is that The Messenger, if you look at it from the human perspective, is saying

“I’m just a warner, you can either listen and obey my every command, or you’ll be tormented forever, it’s your choice, and since I’m just a warner the burden falls on you”

If you think about it, assuming that The Messenger isn’t actually sent by God, there’s no real difference on the human perspective between warning and threatening.
It’s “Obey me or I’ll torture you”, vs “Obey me or God (whom there is no real proof I’m speaking for Him) will torture you”.

What I’m trying to say is that if it’s from a human, then it’s incredibly malicious, as you’re basically threatening those whom you speak to, but you’re making them to be at fault, because you’re ‘just a warner’

Arguing with the Disbelievers
in The Clear Qur’an, clearquran.com, Surah 2, Verse 6 says
“6. As for those who disbelieve—it is the same for them, whether you have warned them, or have not warned them—they do not believe.”

Then what, if I may ask, is the point of
-The threats of Hell
-The arguments against those who disbelieve
-in fact, why are the disbelievers even predominantly mentioned?

Why isn’t The Qur’an more of a “You’re here, that means you Believe in God, here’s what you need to do” kind of book, or a “O those who believe in God, here’s what God wants you to do” kind of book, rather then a “Okay, here’s what will happen if you don’t believe” kind of book.

If you think about it, if there really are two groups of people those who want to submit to God and those who don’t, then why does the Qur’an even talk about the disbelievers as much as it does, why are there threats against those who disbelieve in almost every surah, if those who disbelieve not only don’t even read The Qur’an, but secondly even if they did they won’t respond because The Clear Qur’an ITSELF even tells you that “those who disbelieve, even if they are warned, will not believe”.

And I hate to say it but if you look at it from a human perspective, it once again makes a lot more sense.
You would want to tell your followers that those who aren’t convinced will never be convinced, so that then once your followers encounter those who aren’t convinced, they can just write them off as ‘disbelievers’, and therefore not engage with them.
And secondly the threats would make more sense too, keeping your followers on edge, I guess, I don’t know.

The Prophet’s PBUH Desires
The question that really brought me here in the first place.
“Is there anything in The Qur’an, which does not benefit The Prophet”.
You would expect that if The Qur’an was from God, since God is the Creator of All, there would be plenty of things that would not benefit The Prophet.
Perhaps moral qualities that The Prophet had to adhere to, perhaps things that made life a bit more difficult for The Prophet, but it seems like you find the opposite?
I mean I don’t know, I may very well be wrong and I hope I am, but to me it seems like everything in The Qur’an confirms The Prophet pbuh’s wishes & wants.
It seems like everything in my understanding of The Qur’an, either
A). Directly benefits The Prophet (Obeying him, the rulings regarding his wives, etc.)
B). Indirectly benefits The Prophet (Heaven/Hell, Killing/War aka getting an army, etc.)
C). Doesn’t benefit The Prophet pbuh but doesn’t bring any discomfort either (Fasting, Praying, etc.)

And think about this, would you really see this from a Prophet?
I mean I am honestly asking this question, is there anything in The Qur’an that God Desired but that The Prophet didn’t desire? It seems like God’s Desires always line up with The Prophets, which makes me skeptical.

I mean the fact that there’s an entire chapter, surah 33, that’s dedicated towards ruling about The Prophet Wives, and then in that chapter he gets a special exception where he can have more then four wives… I mean read this

314-15
“14. Adorned for the people is the love of desires, such as women, and children, and piles upon piles of gold and silver, and branded horses, and livestock, and fields. These are the conveniences of the worldly life, but with God lies the finest resort.
15. Say, “Shall I inform you of something better than that? For those who are righteous, with their Lord are Gardens beneath which rivers flow, where they will remain forever, and purified spouses, and acceptance from God.” God is Observant of the servants.”.

Why didn’t this apply to The Prophet as well, I don’t understand…

I mean why is it that, for all the talk of “THE WORLDY LIFE” being useless, it seems like never once were there any restrictions imposed upon The Prophet regarding the worldy life, rather the opposite, exceptions?

I mean I’m not saying that The Prophet had to live a terrible life, but I’m just saying when you have a Prophet pbuh who constantly advocates for how “the next world is the true home”, but then that same Prophet pbuh seems to have lived a luxurious life, more so then his followers… it sound suspicious doesn’t it?

I don’t know dude, I guess what I’m trying to ask is
“Are there any themes, or verses, from The Qur’an, that show that God (in The Qur’an)’s desires, and The Prophet’s Desires, didn’t align 100% all of the time”
because right now where I’m at, it seems like everything in my understanding of The Qur’an serves to help and benefit The Prophet in this world, when even The Qur’an’s message is that the next world is the true world.

[I’m aware of a few minor things, such as the blind man in Surah 80, or the threat in surah 69, or a few verses here and there alluding to something but that’s not really that concrete, anyone could easily fabriciate a threat against themselves or a lesson against themselves.
And the main reason that’s not really concrete is because there aren’t any consequences for that, nothing changed in the life of The Prophet because of those verses, I think.

Minor Things
-not allying yourself with your family if they are disbelievers,
idk if it was just a human this is really malicious

-fasting in the north pole,
there are places on the earth where the sun never sets, God designed the night and the day, how is this never brought up, especially when you’re supposed to fast from sunrise to sunset, but since there are places where the sun never sets it’s literally impossible, like literally, and yet to my knowledge, my understanding of The Qur’an never brings it up…

-patience,
if he was just a human, this could be used as a excuse for a lot of things.
Patience is a virtue, but if you look at it from this perspective, then whenever you have an unanswered question, the other people could just say ‘be patient’, and you would die ‘being patient’, not ever furthering anything.

-the historic things maybe? Like the syriac arabic gospel, or cave of treasures?,
or something like that, idk truth be told this never was a strong point because what we view as history changes overtime with new information, so yea nevermind.

The TL;DR
that’s about it, as I said I was a lot harsher then I normally would’ve been, but I hope you can see where I’m coming from.
I still believe in God 100%… or at least I think / hope I do, and I know that if unfortunately my doubts come true, that I will still Insha Allah try to search for God elsewhere.

Tl;dr there are a lot of things I don’t understand with the Qur’an, yet I would understand them more from a 7th century human perspective… so my questions are as follows

-Literally anyone can technically speak for God, I still believe in God, but where’s the proof that The Qur’an is From God, other then it claiming to be so?
-It is said that there are people who believe and people who don’t, even if they are warned… so why the warnings, threats, tactics to get people to believe, if there are people who believe and those who don’t despite the warnings?
-The whole conflict with “Worldy life = useless, Hereafter = main goal”, but then turning around and having stuff like “The Prophet’s Multiple Wives, Killing & Looting other people, etc”
-Are there any verses / themes in The Qur’an, which show that God’s (in The Qur’an) Desires, and The Prophet’s Desires, do not align? Is there anything in The Qur’an that doesn’t benefit The Prophet?

and the main one

-Is there anything, anything in The Qur’an, which, if it was NOT from a human, would NOT make sense that it was there?

Also, one final note, I didn’t quote any verses because there are a lot of things I wanted to go over, but if you need any specific verses please let me know with what verse are you talking about and I think I can find it and I’ll post it.

Also, Jafar, please don’t post here, apologies for not putting it lightly but I don’t want your hippie, new-age takes on this, honestly you might be on to something but you already don’t believe in The Qur’ans divinity so your input would not be helpful in the least.

depressing stuff but figured I'd share.

sahih international translation
"11.15, Whoever desires the life of this world and its adornments - We fully repay them for their deeds therein, and they therein will not be deprived."
"11.16, Those are the ones for whom there is not in the Hereafter but the Fire. And lost is what they did therein, and worthless is what they used to do."

"17.18, Whoever should desire the immediate - We hasten for him from it what We will to whom We intend. Then We have made for him Hell, which he will burn, censured and banished."
"17.19, But whoever desires the Hereafter and exerts the effort due to it while he is a believer - it is those whose effort is ever appreciated ."

that's it then, "The Immediate" 's root is ajl, check it on https//quranx.com/Dictionary/Salmone/%D8%B9%D8%AC%D9%84, and if you copy past the exact word, l-ʿājilata, without the 'al', the the, عَاجِلَةَ, in there it's the present world, no secondary definition just the present world.

And I don't wanna hear anything about "It's for the disbelievers only", had God truly intended that He could've easily put "But whoso desires the worldy life while he is a believer, and does good therein, will have good in the Hereafter", but there's none of that.

I don't wanna be a troll, this is just as heartbreaking to me as maybe to the rest of you, but that's it, really unfortunate stuff, don't really know what to do with my life going forward now, God knows I guess but yea, goodbye now.

Peace everyone.

I pondered a bit on this today and wanted to get your thoughts, perhaps someone with more knowledge can respond and clear this up.

I began when I noticed that the word for relative also means 'near', I then took a look at the Lexicon, and after looking through most of the Lexicon, while I did find mentions of a blood relative, the word also seemed to mean near relationships in general, even friendships.
Like here's a look at the Lexicon, I used QuranX btw so the UI might be a bit different

https//imgur.com/o2lz6eC.png

https//imgur.com/nc8c2Mj.png

https//imgur.com/J0Sc5UU.png

https//imgur.com/tZ9XXP2.png

https//imgur.com/BE4KYGp.png

https//imgur.com/YCK1b57.png

And yea there is a definition of a blood relative too, but it seems to be all the way down, which idk the lexicons very well but I think that means it's not the primary meaning, rather secondary or something of the like

https//imgur.com/ERFyEuA.png

You can take a look for yourself here, https//quranx.com/Dictionary/Lane/%D9%82%D8%B1%D8%A8.

So I thought that was interesting, I looked a bit in the Qur'an, and while there are ayats such as 47, 48, and 433 which talk about inheriting money, which might suggest it to be blood relatives, or ayats such as 4135 which mentions parents and the relatives together, as if they're related, it still seems possible to perhaps possibly be both blood relatives but also friends that are near, or something.

48 also mentions orphans and the poor, which aren't biological, so maybe that's something.

I also noticed that sometimes the base word, l-qurba, is preceded by Dha , and sometimes with ula , so that's interesting.

Anyway I wanna get your thoughts on this, does l-qurba mean relatives only or perhaps those who are near to you, not just biologically near, but mentally near?

Anyway thanks in advance for your posts, God bless, and peace out...