Salam Ashraf,

Hahaha...trust me, the last thing I want is to be a hero! I think Ive reached the stage where I am relatively at peace with my beliefs and what others believe. There was a point where I couldnt resist myself from jumping into a debate to prove how/why everyone else got it wrong brickwall. Nowadays, Im a lot more pragmatic.

I'm sure you have been following many of the current issues relating to 'Islam' in our country. Sigh, we are digressing bro? its sad to see our beloved country, what was once a harmonious mutliracial multireligious society degenerate into blind following racist bunch of ppl?(sorry had to let it out somewhere..)

I guess on hindsight, we always had it coming, but we ignored the subtle signs..

Well, have a good (belated) merdeka and a fruitful ramadhan...

(PS of cos, we should meet up!, just as long as you dont bring along any JAIS ppl, hehe.. j/k)

Max, how you even brought up the subject regarding your QA believes?

i've hinted a little bit to my dad, when he said that women on their mestruation cannot enter mosque and i question him why a few times, but all he said that its was the fatwa and we should not question it

Salam Dalia,

Well, it wasn?t easy I must say. But I think I back then, I foolishly convinced myself to go ahead and discuss this with my parents because to me the logic behind this was crystal clear, so much so I thought that anyone who would take some time to think this through will come to the same rational conclusion I did. It?s only after that initial backlash and many other backlashes (perhaps I am lousy at explaining things) that I realized that it is not easy.

Accepting that Quran alone is to be the sole guide for a traditional Muslim would also mean rejecting everything he/she has been practicing everyday of his/her life and admitting that they were wrong (sesat). So, this is not only about logic/reason, it?s also about ego. And confronting that with your dad head on, is not a good idea.

My two cents- Bide your time. Do not rush into telling your dad what you believe. Instead ask leading questions so that he can ?arrive? at the conclusion you have. A simple example is ?Why is the shahadah not in the Quran?? ?How come there are so many madhabs?? ?Isn?t stoning cruel??etc. The goal is to get him to read the Quran himself. Once he realizes that a lot of what we practice as ?Muslims? are really not from the Quran, you?ve won maybe 25% of the battle.

Take as much time as you need before confronting him about it. Most people will try to counter with logic and when they fail (as most surely they will), they will react angrily, saying that we are not learned enough compared to the ulama?s etc. They may even get an uztaz to meet and talk to you. That is to be expected.

But there is no way we can convince someone if that person hasn?t read the Quran. So that should be your first goal. And even then, it?s not easy, in my experience. It?ll take time, and patience. Even today, my parents and my fianc?e are still very much traditional Muslims, but the difference is they accept me the way I am and they are beginning to open up and start questioning tradition. I see this as a step forward.

I wish you all the best?

Salam all,

Message 1114,

Agreed, its amazing how most Muslims in Malaysia tend to get emotional about 4, which is due to the fact that most don?t read Quran translations.

Rumi,

Yes, Ive got funny stares before whenever I try to mildly insinuate that the hadith contradicts the Quran. I think its sad that we here have elevated the imams/muftis/pak hajis to God-like status. Only 2 days ago, I read in one of the major newspapers a scholar saying that 'Insults to the authoritative religious scholarship is tantamount to rejection of religious knowledge itself. It implies that the Revelation is untruthful, implicating the Prophet and ultimately Almighty God.' (http//thestar.com.my/columnists/story.asp?file=/2010/5/25/columnists/ikimviews/6328509&sec=IKIM%20Views)

And mind you, the title of that article is "Blasphemy can lead to apostasy". Errr, isnt equating one to God itself blasphemy???

The situation here reminds me of a saying by Karl Marx- religion is the opium of the masses. And that?s exactly what 'religion' has become here, a tool to control and influence the masses. Sad.

Roshan,

Maybe that's the problem, the people are too nice and too trusting. And they believe everything people of 'authority' say. The worse thing is, I do not see this changing anytime soon.

So as it stands down, I am starting my journey towards the true Islam. The one authorized by our Lord. But unfortunately I have run into another barrier. I am having a hard time finding consistency in the ?Quran Only? school of thought. I frequent other sites such as submission.org, but am finding some contrast in reference to subject such as salat and hajj for example.

Salam Rishu,

Welcome to this forum. I can relate to what you are going through. Many a time, I have questioned myself on the issue of consistency. I think this particularly becomes important when we try to reconcile what we know of 'our previous beliefs' to current Quranic beliefs. And whenever I am faced with these questions, I remind myself of these verses-

1. ?Those who listen to what is said, and they follow the best of it. These are the ones whom GOD has guided; these are the ones who possess intelligence." (391

2. "Allah will judge between you on the Day of Judgment concerning the matters in which ye differ." (2269)

To me, what the above verses say is that (and this is part onwards is purely my own interpolation of the verses), God acknowledges that we are all different. God knows that our individual interpretation of the verses are shaped primarily by our experiences, culture, upbringing and understanding of the world/language/syntax, hence there will be times that we will interpret things differently. He knows that. Hence why, he sets up amongst many others, the above two guidelines, follow the best and in the end He will judge in what we differ. I think that?s beautiful, dont you?

Again it shows why He is our Creator. He knows that human beings make mistakes. And no matter how sincere at times we may think we are, our egoes sometimes do tend to get into the way of logic. To avoid all that, He is saying that He will judge in the end. Not anyone else.

That?s just my perspective, but there are many more experienced forumners here, who can perhaps shed more light on this.

Hope you find what you are looking for, all the best.

By the way have you ever heard of this one hadith where muhammad threatened to burn down the homes of people who did not pray 5 times a day in jamaah at the mosque?(meaning as a group). Well I used to pray all my prayers at the mosque when i read that hadith! lol i mean the very notion of muhammad threatening to burn down peoples houses..how can a prophet do such a thing? it didnt make sense even back then. but i just accepted it. why? because islam's concept of god makes super sense.so everything else (supposedly islamic) had to be right no matter what. if only i knew that all thses wierd stuff tht didnt make sense were not in the quran.. btw u okay giving me ur email? or are u on facebook? handshake

Hello noshield30..my apologies for the late reply. I have been tied up with work and havent been on this forum for a bit.

I'm glad to meet a fellow malaysian here too. This country is heading from bad to worse no? And its all because of religion/their interpretation of religion. No, I havent heard that particular hadith, but I can imagine THAT being a hadith! And its not only the hadith, its everything else, all their so called ijma and ijtihad. Ulama's here have too much power, and paid well too. Why do they have to be paid? They dont add value to the economy at all, they are just a cost. Hence they have to justify their existence with all these funky fatwas' with have no basis. I mean cmon, how can practising yoga be 'haram'? And coming out for guidelines to pray in space? Sigh..

Anyway, enough b*tching, . My email address is at [email protected] . Do drop me a line sometime.

Take care, Salam bro.

Salam,

The basis of any 'denomination'/sect in Islam is the Quran. So irregardless if you are Sunni/Shia/whatever you have to read the Quran first. And like many others here, I too have found the answer in there.

God willing, you will too. A

ll the best bro.

peace,

Welcome to the forum.
Amazing isn't it.

Thank you, Wakas.

Yes, it is. Instead of mind numbing rituals, we are asked to think! How refreshing!

We have now bestowed upon you from on high a divine writ containing all that you ought to bear in mind; will you not, then, use your reason? (2110)

Salam ade_cool,

Did you tell her your belief after you are in relationship with her or at the very early phase when you start dating/going out with her?

I told her at the very early phase, in our second/third date I think... &

I am not sure whether it is better to tell a girl at the very early phase of getting to know her or better after she is already in relationship with me.

Its a tricky question and one that I considered as well at that point in time. I decided to tell her early because-

1. She wears a hijab (ie, most likely religious, hence more likely to not agree with me)
2. This is important to me and I will not compromise my beliefs
   Based on 1. and 2., and the fact that it is still early days for us, ive decided to come clean early so that we both could cut our losses early if we cannot agree.

Please kindly share your experience if you don't mind. How do you tell her by the way?

I basically told her everything in my earlier post but I also discussed the history of hadith and why I had my doubts. After explaining my beliefs, I told her that I will not force her to believe what i believe. I do not mind going out with someone who doesnt share my belief, but I hope that she would not force me to believe in what she believes either. I also said that I am still learning and willing to learn. If there is any rationale evidence that I am wrong, I will 'mend' my ways. I am open, and I only seek the truth.

She later told me that my openness and honesty impressed her. (Perhaps that sealed the deal? bravo. Hehehe..I dont know but at that time all I wanted to do was to tell the truth. She was also amazed that I read the Quran. (Again, brownie points..haha). I guess, the fact that I was willing to be 'corrected' if there is sufficient evidence and that I wont force her is the key as it showed that I was genuine about wanting to know the truth, and I am not looking to recruit her as a member of some deviationist cult.. O0.

Glad that she accepts you as you are

Thanks.. Its not a smooth ride to be honest . Even today (15 months), we still have disagreements. Whenever possible, I try to take the opportunity to present my view on what the Quran preaches on certain topics. And we would debate on them, more often than not the issue is left hanging because, well...the Quran is quite straightforward on certain things isnt it? And at that stage, she will ask me to talk to a 'religious teacher'/ustaz as she is not knowledgeable enough. Of cos, I refused since I know its a total waste of time + I could be jailed!

The thing I have learnt about this is, we cannot force people, no matter what. It is not easy for them to unbelieve what they have practised all their lives. After all, everyone is doing it, how can it be wrong? Yes, it pains us to see our loved ones led by the nose by these career priests. Partly, I am to be blamed as there is much that I cannot explain clearly. Like I said, I may not know the correct way, but I definitely know the wrong way.

It is tiresome sometimes, the 'fightings' can take their toll, but I think everybody needs to be given a chance to find his/her way. Just like we did/are still doing. I think I am making progress, as the constant debates and questioning has opened her eyes somewhat. Hopefully, it wont take too long.

Overall, no regrets. This has worked well so far for me and I am certainly glad that I told her earlier. But for you, the solution maybe something else and this entirely depends on you and your partner. Different people react differently and only you would know the best approach to take. Good luck!

Peace to all,

Thanks for the kind wishes. Seeing many like minded people here gives me the comfort of knowing that I am not alone in this 'struggle'. May Allah guide us to the straight path!

Ariji, nice to know that there is someone from Malaysia too. We are in a serious mess here aren't we? Sigh...

I have been a ?lurker? in FM and this forum for probably the last 3-4 years. Right or wrong, the articles, views and debates have helped me understand the Quran / Islam a lot better, and I would like to express my gratitude to all contributors. May Allah bless you and show us the straight path. Here, I would like to share my story on how I came to believe solely in the Quran alone (QA). My apologies as it is quite a long post, but I guess you folks are used to this.. P

I come from a middle class Malay Muslim family. My mom was a Chinese Christian who converted to Islam after marrying my dad. She doesn't wear the hijab, and my dad is ok with it as he doesn't feel it is compulsory. They did whatever that was asked of them ('religious'-wise) and were in my view, moderate Sunnis. BTW, all muslims in Malaysia are Sunnis and follow strictly the teachings of Imam Shafie. Islam is the official religion of the country and Islamic beliefs/practices here are firmly governed by the state. Practicing a ?brand? of Islam not condoned by the authorities, is a crime and one can be jailed for it.

Unlike some who had religious inclinations since young, as a kid and later a teenager, I was not deeply 'religious', despite religious rituals dominating a major part of my life. I prayed when I had to but skipped when no one was watching , memorized the required doa?s and verses for prayers, fasted religiously, completed the recitation of the Quran (we call it khatam Quran here) before 11 yrs old and aced all my Islamic Studies exams every year. I remembered that back then, after learning about the term Munafiq (Hypocrite) in school, silently in my heart, I thought I met the definition of one ie I did everything I was supposed to but not whole heartedly.

For me, the turning point came when I went to university in the UK and shared a dorm with a guy named Steve, who was an active member of the Christian society in the university. Steve was a genuine guy who wanted to know more about Islam and as fate would have it, he actually taught me more about Islam, than anyone ever did. And he did it by questioning. He was persistent in asking me questions about Islam, many which I realized then, I had taken for granted. In fact, I became embarrassed because I did not know most of the answers. From thereon, I decided that I needed to know more about my religion. In between participating in religious online forums where Muslims and Christians heavily debate and attending Steve?s Bible study class, I began to read about Islam.

And it was a mess. Views differed according to which sect you follow, which Imam you followed and a lot of it did not make sense. I was troubled. I couldn?t understand how a man can be allowed to marry more than one out of lust, I have seen families destroyed because of that, why would God allow that? I do not get turned on seeing a woman?s hair, why is it their ?aurat?? Stoning is barbaric, how could it be allowed, no matter what? Why pray five times a day, reciting words we don?t even understand? Keeping dogs will deter angels from visiting you, is that even real? The punishment for apostasy is killing, how can that be? The list is endless. Does God even want to decide which leg we use to enter the bathroom? Is this what God wants? If this is the true religion, I don?t want to be a part of it because it didn?t make sense, I could not understand.

Our egos are our biggest enemy, and I had a huge one. I tried to rationalize as much as I could because I could not accept that this religion which I profess to be practicing could be false. The answers I usually get to my questions are that I shouldn?t question! I also began reading about other religions and the Bible wasn?t any better. At one point, I almost gave up on looking for God.

One day, by chance, online I came across a book called Hadith A Reevaluation by Kassim Ahmad. I remember the book being banned in Malaysia and the author jailed. All the more reason to read it, I thought.

That book shocked me. Suddenly, everything began to make sense. Everything which I couldn?t believe about my religion, wasn?t in the Quran, it was in the ?Hadith?! I read and re read the Quran fully cover to cover for again and again, using different translations and it was like discovering a new religion. Answers to all my questions kept popping right in front of me. In particular, verse 1736, which changed the way I approach religion forever. From then on, it was going to be the Quran, based on reason alone. There is no turning back.

When I got back to Malaysia and told my parents about it, they weren?t happy at first. My mum was more accepting given that she was a convert and previously questioned those things as well. But my dad was more critical and it is understandable because he grew up knowing no other religion. I often had serious debates with him; most of which ended up in arguments and we didn?t get along for almost a year. On my part, I admit I was being pretty stubborn. But gradually, things began to improve and today, though both my parents still do not totally discard the Hadith as a source of religious authority, they are beginning to question traditional views/scholars and are accepting of my beliefs.

Like I mentioned earlier, being a Muslim and not believing in Hadith openly is a crime here, so not many know of my beliefs. I am currently going out with a beautiful girl who is a traditional Malay Sunni (even wears the hijab), and I the first thing I told her was this. I wanted to be honest as from the start I knew that I want to marry her someday, but I was worried that our religious beliefs may get in the way.

She accepts me the way I am and we discuss a lot about religion. I realized that it is not easy for many to accept as it would require one to reject almost everything that he/she has been practicing. God wasn?t kidding when he said that he would test us. Today, I still don?t have the answer to everything eg prayers, hajj etc. That weakness is mine alone and it is something I hope to remedy going forward. The search is part of my journey and I am still learning. I often tell her, I may not know for sure what is right, but I know for sure what is wrong. And who would do something once they know it is wrong?

Peace to all, and thank you )