Ok i rewrote a few things.

You are either confused between articles or unable to read properly because you haven't addressed or argued against a single point from the article in the link. Instead, you keep arguing against the count of 365 days and the 19 year Metonic cycle, which are points never made in this article. Those points were made in another article that has major mistakes.

They didn't have to be in your article. THATS MY POINT, Im pointing them out. Something which is lacking is pointed out.

You didn't bring a single one. I would appreciate it if you show me where there are holes in the article so that I can correct it. Instead of your empty boasting, please be specific and quote the appropriate passage from the article and tell everyone what is wrong with it.

I'm done repeating myself. If you can't understand what i'm pointing out to you without me having to draw you a picture, then re-read all my posts regarding the subject.

One can approach this from three points of views, (1) What the great reading tells us, (2) Scientific, and (3) Historical.

(1) From what the great reading tells us, we can clearly see that the year is solar. When shown 1712, at first you tried to make the baseless argument that "3am" is lunar and "sana" is solar or something like this. When you were proven wrong, you didn't admit your error and instead shifted to the hypocritical rhetorical argument that using the sun for timing is somehow "pagan".

Again, you didn't read properly. I said that pagans have used the sun cycle to time everything, which lead them to associate natural cycles with gods which they thaught were in the sky, such as the moon, the sun, and other stars. Hence it would seem logical that The God would want us to steer clear from the same error. That is the idea i get from it, just as YOU get a different idea from The Reading.

To see your Arabic mistake, just read 106, which is the immediately next passage. Is "ayat liqawm ya3lamoon" a function of just the last part that came before it ("ma khalaq Allah fi alsamawat wa alard") or is it a function of everything that came before it ("ikhtilaf allay wa alnahar wa ma khalaq Allah fi alsamawat wa alard")? Of course, it is a function of everything that came before it NOT just the last part. Now apply the same logic to 105. Moreover, one has to effectively understand the great reading by looking at all the passages and not one in isolation. When 1712 and 105 are read TOGETHER we can clearly see the meaning of 105. Notice that 1712 talks about daylight and night and 105 talks about the light of the sun. Notice that immediately after 105 we hear in 106 about the daylight and the night like in 1712. So those two passages are connected and we must understand them in light of each other.

Ayman. Obviously we have to take the passages in full. And they are referring to all those Signs. But SPECIFICALLY, if you do any sort of NA7AWI or QAW3ED or E3RAB, it is beyond obvious.

"Huw-alathi ja3al al-shams dhiya2, w al-qamara noora, wa kaddarahu manazil lita3lamou 3adad as-sinin wal 7isab"

This part of kaddar is clearly about the moon and when you Kadder something, it is to measure it and to dissect it which would lead to the learning of time keeping.

But now i see your point. You're saying that the part about "lita3lamou.." is referring to all the ayats before it. Ok i can't disagree there. But then lets take the other verses that mention the Day and Night together and they have nothing to do with time keeping, but their function in our daily lives.

Also, the alteration of day and night is needed in order for us to properly measure out the progression of the crescents on a daily basis, instead of trying to seperate a constant progression. Know what i mean? So it can still be interperted, but someone as hard headed as me, as pointing to a lunar cycle ) hehehe

(2) Scientifically, at first you tried to make the baseless argument that "lunar calendars are better at specifying hunting restrictions". When you were again proven wrong, you didn't admit your error and instead made a false argument that the "restricted months were not about hunting".

Again you misunderstand. I said that it doesn't make sense because the "mating season" which would dictate when restricting hunting would be, is the opposite on either hemisphere. ie North and South. You do know that Spring in North = Fall in South and vice versa. So your perfect system would be flawed right off the bat.

My argument was that with the rotation restricted months, and the fact that you have one in the middle of the year, and 3 on the other end, would make great to accomodate this restriction, and within 19 years the cycle resets. So again, just as to YOU your interpretation SEEMS logical, to ME my interpertation is MORE logical. Purely subjective.

When shown 51-2, etc. and clearly proven wrong, you again didn't admit your mistake and again resorted to empty rhetoric. You can't be sincerely striving if you can't even admit such manifest errors. I don't think that your game of CIV4 will help you correct such errors.

I IGNORED your reference to 51 because it speaks of a state of I7RAM and its relation to the 7ajj (whatever you want it to be), and in 52 is AL-SHAHR-AL-7ARAM..singular. Again you take the most clear of ayats and twist them around to make them fit your subjective interpertation. What about 2194 and 2217 and 95? WHat does have to do with hunting? ALL KILLING is forbidden in those months, especially when it comes to FIGHTING..KITAL and is not necessarily about only the "hunting season". nnnnyaaaa...whatsup doc.

(3) Historically, even traditionalist sectarians admit that the present day so-called Islamic calendar was invented during the time of Umar I and hence the prophet didn't use this calendar.

Yes of course. Just as only with Umar was there a single authoratative Qur'an compiled, so you wanna doubt his reliability..go ahead..you're shooting youself in the foot. And all that Umar did FYI is meet with his companions and set the beginning YEAR of the calendar, and not the months or calendar itself. Hence they chose the Hijra to be year 1. The months themselves were already in operation, since we know the prophet performed 7ajj and sawm on multiple times, for at least 10 years while he was in Madina.

So as we can all see, the great reading, science, and history converge and support the understanding presented in the article and demolish your false arguments.

I have responded to everyone one of your claims but i can see how easily a new comer or a someone with little knowledge can be easily convicnced of your writings. That was a compliment btw, because you do expound well your points. I'm just showing you MY view of things.

The God gives us the scorching full-moon ("shahr ramadan") as the marker. This is the first full-moon after the summer solstice. It is also the first restricted full-moon. So you count four full moons starting with the scorching full-moon and you get the timing for the restriction. You count 12 full-moons until the next summer solstice and then you start over. If you get 13 full moons, you skip counting the 13th moon because we are told to only count 12 and this way you get automatic intercalation. It is the simplest and least error prone mechanism. This way, the lunar cycles and the solar cycles are used for timing as indicated in 1712 and 105. So you essentially have lunar "months" while the year is solar and the "calendar" is in sync with the seasons.

The Scorching Full Moon issue is up to date. But for sake of argument lets say its that. You forget that the arabs had the names of the months before the Quran was revealed, and because of their adding of months, they would keep them in a seasonal synch. So the fact that the month of ramadhan was named that way is no surprise if in fact it is the 9th month, which would fit in your time period.

Ok and how would you put this on someone's fridge so i can plan when to go to the beach?

2189 talks about the crescents being used as a timing device for the real "7ajj". Your so-called "7ajj" doesn't use the crescents for anything. It starts on an arbitrary day, the 8th of Dhul-Hijjah and ends on the 10th. Thus, its timing has nothing to do with the crescent.

sigh granted and agreed that the crescents point it out? But you said yourself a crescent is a phase of the moon, which phase specifacally? We know that hillel is a crescent of a certain size, where can you see the proper set time for it? The 8th Dhul-Hijjah is basically on the start of the second quandrant/quarter whatever it is. The verse never says which specific hillel to use and when to start it. Hence you need the Sunna. Unless you show me otherwise. Anyway im no expert on this specifc issue but ill look it up.

You are not making any sense. As usual, you seem to have a preconception and you are arguing against it instead of against what is presented here. Do you even know what the word "quran" means? If so, please tell us what it means.

Dude.. i KNOW what it means and i KNOW it would means something close to THE GREAT READING, but would you call someone who's name is Ismael in Arabic, "Hey! Name of God, how are you?" or would you just call him Ismael? That's the point!

I look forward to you giving a productive reply to the article. To be productive, I suggest that you read it first, do your research to verify what is said in it, and then quote the passages that you think are flawed and highlight what is wrong with them. This would be more helpful.

Did it even dawn on you that maybe i was writing my own ideas to counter your propositions and not necessarily a point by point by line by line refutation of your article? But you're begging for it so i will.

Point by point. Which i have already done throughout my 20 posts, but whatever ill write you a dissertation worthy of academic peer review. You just won't have it in a day or two.

Salaam.

Remember that you must steer clear of associating anything with the God - and unfortunately it seems that in traditional Islam, Allah is an Arab god who understands only Arabic.

shock

ooh right.. the arab conspiracy.. i forgot.. shake head

Dude.. stop hiding behind calling others that disagree with your flawed interpretations as "traditional" or "secterian". For all you know, you're the misguided one and have been led to believe that you're personal whim is the only possible logical explanation. Sheesh.

Salaam.

May God shows us His straight path in this striving that we are all engaged in. Ya qallabul qulub, thabbit qalbi 3ala dinika ya Rab.

This is obviously leading nowhere because your whole argument is that i haven't read your article and your entire counter is to tell me "here's the link, go read the article", which i have. And found it riddled with holes and that is what I'm bringing to your attention. What makes your view so authoratative anyway, that you so easily pretend to brush me off? I wasn't alone in dissecting your article, not that you care. Good for you.

All this comes down to ONE thing ayman. Can you make us a proper calendar that everyone can follow based on the The Quran alone? Without all the man-made extras that have already been used? WIth the 12 full moons, plus the "uncounted" 13th? cough it up! I wanna live by God's Will, so reveal it.

As for the "so-called" 7ajj, (i love your belittling attiude, ka2ano nizzil 3alek el wa7i mashallah!), where does it say anything about a waxing crescent? I'm curious. Maybe i missed that part.

And stop anglicizing it. It's QUR'AN. And not THE READING. Wasn't there an epic of an article about how we should use the names Allah assigned to things? Hmmm must've been the other quranite site. Oops i used the Q word! See everyone can put "secterian" labels on everyone else btw.

I'll respond to your full reply later, i must continue my game of CIV4 right now. They have religions added in. Very interesting.

Salaam!

PS The only solar implication in all this, which is amazing actually is the Metonic cycle of 19 years. 19! 19! 19! 19!

THAT is when the Earth-Sun-Moon reset to an original position. The Sun-Earth position is half the story.

Salaamun

It is good to see that you have given up your baseless argument about the lunar calendar somehow being better suited for hunting restrictions.

Err i haven't. You should give up your baseless argument about the Restricted months being about hunting and OOO what great wisdom it is, yet you could barely designate which months are stated to be restricted, nor do u offer a way to count the months to make them 30 days.

And if they are 30 days, then they wouldn't complete the 365 days (30x12 = 360) needed for a year which still leaves arbitrary judgement on your part to decide which months should have the extra days to adjust. Nor do you explain how you would adjust for intercalation.

Yes of course the occurence of words AYAM is 30 and YAWM is 365, but that still presents the problem above. And if the calendar (something so important) was outlined so subtely, you'd think it was only meant for people in our time to actually understand this. Which to me doesn't make sense.

This time you are not making a baseless argument. You are making an argument based on sloppy reading. Please read carefully what The God is saying. He doesn't say "There are 12 SHAHR in a year" (Arabic "Al-sanat fiha ithna 3shr shahra").

HELLO. Did you see me put quotes? Did you see me state verse numbers? No! I was paraphrasing. Of course the ayat precisely is "Inna 3idat al-Ash-hur 3inda Allah ithna 3shr shahra".

which means "the COUNT of the SHAHR is twelve." Look up the word count/"3idat" and you will see that it is what one counts out of a larger population or out of a number of possible alternatives.

You're arguing over semantics now. What I said isn't different from what is said there. The number of months is 12 in the sight of God. THAT IS THE POINT. Because then you base your whole interpertation on the word SHAHR referring to MOONS and not specifically MONTHS, in order to make fit your other theory of what Ramadhan is actually referring to. So who's sloppy here?

Moreover, you are making contradictory arguments such as these

First off. According to your peeps on here, SHAHR in Arabic refers to a Full Moon. So if The God says there are 12 SHAHR in a year, does that not mean it's a lunar year?

and

Why would Allah say this about the moon. Yet you are completing disregarding any use of the moon for yearly calculations?

I don't see how I am making contradictory comments, when I am pointing out YOUR contradictions by comments.

a) you say SHAHR is the Moon or a specific phase of the Moon.
b) you point out that God counts 12 SHAHR
c) 12 SHAHR = 12MOON = 1 Lunar year
d) Despite this, you keep pushing a Solar year based on some self-styled month you haven't declared yet

We can't really be "completely disregarding any use of the moon" while saying that "SHAHR in Arabic refers to a Full Moon". But I guess that if you are sloppy with the great reading, I shouldn't expect better when it comes to reading what people write here.

clapclapclap Ad Hominum. Very good. Yes that will shut me up. My argument is flawed because im sloppily reading your super well written article. Good one.

As for your reading of 106, it is equally as sloppy as 936.
106 He is the One who made the SUN to emit light, and the MOON to reflect it, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except for truth. He details the revelations for a people who know.

OMG. "Huw-alathi ja3al al-shams dhiya2, w al-qamara noora". I dont see where you get REFLECT from but fine. Maybe "LIT" would be a better word. then.. "wa kaddarahu manazil lita3lamou 3adad as-sinin wal 7isab"

Kaddara what? Kaddar al qamar! for what? lita3lamou 3adad as-sinin wal 7isab! The moon is clearly what is intended to set time periods, and through that to learn mathematics and counting. Al shamssou dhia2 and that's it! God didn't say "kaddarahUM", it's not plural. It strictly refers to the moon. So where's your sloppy reading? Oh right there!

Add this to 1712, which again you chose to completely ignore, then you can see that the year is luni-solar. In other words, the year is solar, while the divisions in it are lunar.

Ok WOW. Now you're recanting but you're doing it in oooh so sly a way. Luni-solar it is now. Ok. So back to problem 1, if it luni-solar, how do you divide the year into 12 months, using the moon and the sun without adding arbitrary months or days or whatever. If it's so clear, make us a calendar right now that doesn't rely on gregorian count and their established months that are completely arbitrary.

Also 1712 mentions nothing about the SUN being the origin of day/night, other than the Night and Day are in themselves Ayats of God's power. The sun has nothing to do with the alteration of the night and the day!! It's THE EARTH'S SPIN! Which is clearly reffered to in 395. The verb KAWWARA.

In fact, the night/day alteration spoken of 1712 allows us to count the days between each new/full moon. Can you count the number of months simply by relying on the sun rising and setting?

As for 2189, please look in ANY Classical Arabic dictionary and you will see that "ahilat" means crescent moons in general NOT just new moons. So it should be translated as

Duh, plural of Hillel. Crescent. Either way 2189 is again clearly showing that it's the phases of the moon that are the timing mechanisms for THE PEOPLE AND THE HAJJ. Again you're missing the point and twisting God's clear verses.

A solar calendar is simply a timing mechanism that is in line with the natural God-given seasons. When you time going to the beach in the summer, you are following a solar calendar whether you like it or not. So according to you, this makes you a pagan worshipper. It also makes all the farmers, hunters, and people who do anything related to the seasons pagan worshippers.

Wow you need a calendar to know when it's time to go to the beach? Ever try stepping outside and checking out the weather? Do poeple really need a calendar on the wall to know that summer/spring/fall/winter are on their way or coming. All we need is to look at the position of the sun and since we already keep track of the sun for prayers, we can tell when the days are getting longer or shorter and know the seasons and the equinox. No need for a calendar.

Muslims have been using a purely lunar calendar for at least 1000 years until european colonization, you're telling me they didn't hunt and plant crops properly because of it? Ridiculous.

If anything, God doesn't want us to follow a natural cycle BECAUSE people have fallen into SHIRK by doing so associating coming seasons and festivals with the sun or the stars because they return to their positions. Your only strong point is the hunting season, which is admirable, but not strong enough.

In fact, the real pagan timing device is not the solar year but it is the seven day week, which unlike the natural solar seasons is a completely man-made arbitrary timeframe. The seven day week has its root in the five planets, the sun, and the moon that were worshipped by the ancients. Judeo-Christianity adopted this week too as a result of their false belief in the 6 day of creation plus 1 day rest gross blasphemy. If you wholeheartedly accept this unnatural manmade seven day week, does this make you a pagan?

So now you're suggestign we also abolish the week? GEE. I wonder why it's called OUSSBOU3, could it be rooted in the number SAB3A? But now let's count shall we? You like to count

The Sabbath was decreed only for those who ended up disputing it. Your Lord is the One who will judge them on the Day of Resurrection regarding their disputes.

According to the Quran the said abstinences are only for the Jewish people. ?Sabbath? is on the seventh day of the week. Not only that, but Sabbath occurs 7 times in the Quran. Woot. Point and match.

Your 365 count for Yawm is indeed the number of days for a full revolution around the sun, but doesn't mean anything or does it refer to a calendar in any shape or form, this is just pointing out an astronomical detail since either way its ~365.25 so needs arbitrary calendars. Whereas counting lunar cycles is much easier and obvious.

Perhaps not, but it does make you a hypocrite for accepting a man-made timing device while accusing others of being pagan worshippers because they acknowledge the natural God-given solar cycles.

Much better than a self-style sheikh ayman )

Peace brother. You need to get off your high horse of interpretation.

.Mohamed

Another perspective could be that God is telling us something. The muslim world is not excacty a beacon of light, so obviously something did go horribly wrong.

Ya not today, nor for the last little while. But any historian will tell you of the great multicultural and rational civilization that existed in Muslim lands. Of course they didn't reinvent the wheel they absorbed greek philosophy and took it to the next level, they adopted indian numerals but applied them to make algebra and calculus, they collected medical knowledge from all poeples and consolidated that and took it further. all based on injunctions to "walk the Earth and see how God began Creation"

Yes obviously, he came to a people who had'nt had a messenger before. So they would indeed need it to be explained. But we can read that other people allready knew e.g salat.

But we are a people who've never had a Messenger. In the same way that the Arabs didn't. They KNEW of other Messengers since you had Yahud and Nasara living among them. And they used to trade with Syria and Abyssinia and Yemen, so they have been exposed to these ideas. And some of the Arabs followed those religions and not all were Kuffar. So i see that all common-folk need it explained.

But ok, lets say we can all interpret it as we please, wouldnt this cause more division than anything. Simple example of the Mu'tazillat. They were Quranites, and in the end they ended up disagreeing amongst each other over everything because there was no standard of interpretation.

btw. So salaat to you is not simply a "commitment" as many say on here?

Yes, and he used Qur'aan to do so and nothing else. And he told us to do the same. thank you for proving my point especially with the last verse posted.

Ok but since he's the best of the explainer, shouldn't we follow an example or setup some basic sense of a standard? Are we better than him that we can explain it using nothing else, not even the aid of Jibril, as he did? And his companions would refer everything to him so he would judge among them, otherwise they would've disbelieved.

"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."

I agree, and all we need to do is read Qur'aan to find out what that was all about.

Qur'an First. But not Qur'an Alone. )

...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) , and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment."

yes we should indeed share the spoils of war

OK ill give you that one...but im gonna get back at you for it...

"Oh Prophet, WHY do you forbid "TUHARAM" that which God has made lawful "AHAL" in order to please your wives. God is Merciful and Forgiving. God has decreed to you how to revoke your oaths, and God is your Lord. He is most Wise and Knowledgeable" (66/1-2)

He was however not allowed to invent any laws. Several "laws" are added through hadeeth and sunna. The law can be found in Qur'aan

And here it is...Read verse 3 and 4. My quote ended up being about spoils of war, and yours is about back biting and what was said between wives that the prophet was made aware of. So both example don't prove either one of our arguments )

No both practices were likely to have been practiced before the prophet, and then just continued when he died, and ascribed to him. But this is my oppinion, not a fact.

But if that were the case, why would Salaat and Hajj be mentioned in the Qur'an? Not only that, the Salaat and Hajj of the Kuffar is mentioned to be meaningless because it was flawed and the prophet cleansed it. Hence he practiced it in his own life. Wouldn't God have said to cease this practice completely? No. In fact the opposite is what we find. Yes those practices were there, just as the Kaaba was there, all as remnants of the faith/practice that Ismael and Ibrahim taught the nomads as they settled Mecca. And later obviously it became a site of pilgrimmage to pagan idols because the worship of the One God was lost in the sands of time, as has happened so many times before. This may not be Quranic fact, but if the Quran doesn't mention the presence of Sharks in the sea, does that mean they don't exist? )

You know, in my family we have always cut of the end of the roast of thrown that out. Everybody did this, and told that is because how grandmom did hers, and it was wonderfull.
So i asked grandmom, why? And she told me, well actually its from my mother, out pot was not big enough for the roast so we had to cut off the end. So here we have a ritual that all abide by in the belief that it does something to the quality of the meal, when in fact the explanation was really simple and streight forward.

Very good example, and i can see how that can happen with religion. But i totally disagree that it has happned in Islam. We can clearly see how it's happened for the People of the Book because even they cannot trace most of their rituals to Isa or Musa or whoever they claim to follow. Our prophet lived in the full light of history and the chain of PRACTICE (forget Hadith for now) is unbroken since.

There have been many Quranite sects and yet none of them had successfully argued their point, wouldn't God have led them to victory and made His Deen foremost amongst all other beliefs had they been correct? As He promised? No. In fact mainstream Islam fits that profile.

Yes, as seen on the succes it wields in the world. Im not buying that for a minute. He altso tells us that if we follow THE MAJORITY, we will be wrong.

But doesn't the Qur'an say that if we follow God we will be successful in THIS world AND the NEXT? Fine when you talk about the majority, but the majority of what? Humankind? Then Muslims are not a majority. And i think that verse is more appropriate when seen in light of what was happening in Mecca, instructing the early Muslims and reassuring them when they were a tiny minority.

See what i mean? Without a basis or a standard, we can fit the Qur'an into any argument we want.

Nor do i believe its up to anyone to interpret the Qur'an...

Then why give it to us? why not just give us the explanation you belive is from the Prophet? and spare the paper of Qur'aan?

Don't go to the other extreme of Hadith Only. Obviously the Qur'an is peace for the hearts of men, and in it is great wisdom and we're still discovering the meanings of many verses that were considered metaphorical back in the day, so the Book itself is timeless. But on specifics and in matters of daily lives, the life of the prophet is a clear example.

We are intelligent enough to see who Allah (swt) is hinting by studying the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the four Khulafa-e-Rashideen.

There is no clergy in Islam. That is true. So what is an Imam? An imam is appointed or given status by others to one who has reached a high level of Islamic knowledge and one who has enough knowledge and wisdom to lead the Muslims.

But only if he follow the path that you yourself do right?

The paths to Allah are as numerous as the numbers of breaths on Earth. - Ali.

And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.

The Arabic term here is "AhlaDhikr".. i.e. "those who remember" or "those who know" i.e. those who learn the history and keep knowledge preserved.

Also, we read

If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"

So who are they, do you reckon?

I don't know yet, but it certainly isn't a freeminder at this point )

so when a person comes to me and says "i think" or "in my opinion" in regards to the Quran..thats the height of arrogance.

I find it more arrogant to claim that God cannot communicate a book to his servants that they can understand and use as a practical tool in their lifes. But we can easily understand 50.000 pages of story's written by saintly schoolars. It just doesnt fly...

If it's that easy to understand on a personal basis, where is the full analysis of the Book? Of every part of it to be used in everyday life? What about all the details of daily life? Ya it can probably be all summed up by the 10 commandments even, but that hardly suffices in our day and age.

Thank you for agreeing with us all. Because that is what you do right here. This is why the socalled Quranic movements may appear not to be succesfull. No, they are not succesfull as cults, that is true. But as personal enlightenment they are very.

Perhaps yes. But then why would the Qur'an call us the best community to ever rise up from mankind, if its only working on a personal enlightenment basis. This is starting to smell like new-ageism....

You are entitled to your oppinion. I disagree though.

Great ) Respect rocks.

But you have no problem with a brotherhood of ideas who have been manipulating for some 5000 years that we know of.???

Or a manipulative vatican that held christianity hostage for some 1500 years?

No because the proof of that conspiracy is clear as day. and in my mind, the only safe haven against all that has been the Muslim world..and hence its been the focus of so many attacks in the recent past..nameely the last couple hundred years.

One thing i have learned while researching the conspiracies is not to be too gullible of everything, and this specific bit deserves alot more of my scrutiny than any other conspiracy because it would mean that even God's order has been compromised, and if i was a Quranite..then maybe Id find this alot easier to swallow. But im not, at least not yet. The evidence for following Allah and His Messenger are too overwhelming to ignore.

"Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them an apostle from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error."

That instruction must've served for something.

"And We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought."
"And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou should make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe."

The prophet wasn't simply a messenger, but a teach and a judge amongst us.

"Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."
...And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad (sallallaahu`alaihiwasallam) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it) , and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is severe in punishment."

He tells us what is forbidden and what is lawful..not just the Quran.

And of course there's more. Now im not advocating the blind acceptance of all Hadith. But the Sunna itself, which i maintain is seperate from Hadith, is practice..physical ritual that was passed down generation after generation since the time of the prophet. Much harder to invent than sayings if you ask me. People didnt just start performing the Hajj out of nowhere. Or pray 5 times a day out of nowhere.

There have been many Quranite sects and yet none of them had successfully argued their point, wouldn't God have led them to victory and made His Deen foremost amongst all other beliefs had they been correct? As He promised? No. In fact mainstream Islam fits that profile.

Im not ready to follow the whims of a comfortably fed westernized mind that tells me what Islam should be..1400 after the fact..while denying 1400 years of amazing history for Islam and Muslims....

Nor do i believe its up to anyone to interpret the Qur'an...

We are intelligent enough to see who Allah (swt) is hinting by studying the life of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the four Khulafa-e-Rashideen.

There is no clergy in Islam. That is true. So what is an Imam? An imam is appointed or given status by others to one who has reached a high level of Islamic knowledge and one who has enough knowledge and wisdom to lead the Muslims.

Therefore, Imams are people who are "in the know". Anyone cannot become an Imam. That would be pure ignorance. Allah (swt) commands the Holy Prophet (pbuh). Allah (swt) command us that if we have doubt about the message that was sent from Allah (swt), then ASK THOSE WHO KNOW

And before thee also the messengers We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message.

The Arabic term here is "AhlaDhikr".. i.e. "those who remember" or "those who know" i.e. those who learn the history and keep knowledge preserved.

Also, we read

If they had referred it to the Messenger and to those of authority among them, then those of them whose task it is to find it out would have known the matter"

so when a person comes to me and says "i think" or "in my opinion" in regards to the Quran..thats the height of arrogance.

So no..you will not see a verse saying "follow Imam Bukhari" (altho i dont agree with Bukhari..but for sake of argument) is not the type of language that the Qur'an uses and you should know that. Allah does not go down to such specific level. He would then have to mention every other shcolar by name too. Also, too much importance would be given to Imam Bukhari if he was commanded to be followed by name. There is wisdom in all this. Allah (swt) is the knower of All things. He uses words of wisdom and that carry an absolute truth meaning in them. He doesn't use words just because some idiot on free-minds.org (sorry) doesn't understand simple language and needs to redefine a word according to the PRL. In fact He delibrately uses words that carry vast meaning so that in His Divine language, the word encompasses many things.

Lets not deny either that each verse has meaning upon meaning upon meaning. This is known...so ur efforts here will end up misleading many..while maybe leading a few..im sorry to say..but that is my assessment so far )

soooooo drop the issue of my acceptance of the Quran Only method for now.

First off. According to your peeps on here, SHAHR in Arabic refers to a Full Moon. So if The God says there are 12 SHAHR in a year, does that not mean it's a lunar year?

)

First off. According to your peeps on here, SHAHR in Arabic refers to a Full Moon. So if The God says there are 12 SHAHR in a year, does that not mean it's a lunar year?

Second, you just lost all credibility in my eyes because you actually agree with the orientalist writing about the moon god bullsh)(t. This debate is over )

Salaam brother.

Ya i read that article when i first started considering the Qur'an Only movement, which i found very attractive. But after reading it, i got completely turned off from the whole thing and went back to tradition. To me, it shows to what extent people can twist meanings of words in order to make them anytyhing, especially in Arabic because of the root system.

I mean, whatever ) I completely disagree with the whole calendar argument, and i've argued my point quite well on the other thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=59133#59133

To claim an arab conspiracy against Islam and Allah is waaaay out there. And i should know, because i believe in an NWO/Illuminati conspiracy. But to say that after 1400 years of history, which included 1000 years of cultural, scientific, medical superiority of Arabs and Muslims over the entire world, that all that was based on falsehood is completely CRAZY.

Aidid has shown nothing more than his lack of historical sense and displays a great imagination. Rock worship!? HAHAHA

Granted the Muslims have gone into decadence in the past 200 years due to both external and internal factors, but to say that the whole of Islam is a sham. Not buying it.

Salaam!

I can only address some of the arguments you present though there is more to criticise (eg. moon theories - rather than cataclysm - the moon is probably a captured planetoid)

http//www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/moon_oxygen_011015.html

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon#Origin_and_history

How backwards of you to deny this basic scientific theory that is all but 100% confirmed. It's called the Giant Impact Theory.

Reminds of the Ayat regarding the "cleaving asunder" of the Earth and Heavens

It gives a clue only as to the best systems that people had in place at the time. The modern solar calendar developed over thousands of years. You can't expect an ancient people such as the biblical Jews to have the right system from day one. Nowhere in their scriptures is there a calendar formula.

So nevermind that The God mentions how He made prophets rule over the Hebrews in succession for centuries. That simple fact alone should make you wonder that perhaps these prophets laid down the calendar for them, and that their 13 months was added later on, since humans have such a nack to try to follow the seasons. Innovation. But of course, since you deny Sunna, I can't expect you to even consider the traditions of Hebrew prophets and the potential that lies there.

All human spheres develop. If you argue otherwise then you would have to analogously argue that other things were fixed from day one. For instance that Arabic as it appears in the Koran from circa 650 CE was the primal language that Adam and Eve spoke. You might actually find Arabs who give you that spiel based on false religio-cultural theories. They even believe that the language of heaven is Arabic.

Look, you're talking to an educated Arab Muslim here, and no self-respecting Imam with an inkling of a clue would say such a thing. This isn't part and parcel of Islam as we know it. Where are you getting this stuff from? Arabs think Earth is flat, that Arabic is a heavenly language. All that is claimed is that Arabic had the proper grammatical and lexical structure to allow the Qur'an to be well expressed in its forms.

Whether Arabic is spoken in Heaven or by Adam or whatever is pure conjecture, and most men of knowledge don't follow conjecture. However, it's mostly the NON-ARAB countries that will give you that spiel because they blindly memorize the Qur'an without understanding it and thus think of it as some high divine language... not the Arabs, i should know i am one.

Let alone the fact that we're talking about Arab traders, not bedouins btw, that lived in quasi isolation in the deepest deserts, tucked away from the major empires of the time, left alone to develop. So whatever development in the sphere of language can be said to have been guided by The God to reach a certain sumum in order for the Revelation to take place. Anyway, all this is off topic.

The Koran similarly does not contain the recipe for a calendar and certainly does not mandate any particular calendar. The number of months is 12 - and that's what it happens to be in the modern solar calendar. The names are irrelevant.

If anyone is making assumptions, its you, ayman and Layth in regards to the calendar. The ONLY months that are TWELVE are lunar. You cannot even judge what is a month in solar years!! All solar calendars are purely subjective. The best you can hope for is set equinox and solstice. THAT'S IT! If you had ZERO knowldge of current Gregorian calendar, how would you come to 12 months? Don't tell me it's because Qur'an counts 30 plural AYAM because that would come up to 360 days. The you'd say you can count the number of singular YAWM to get 365, ok so then judge which months will get the 5 extra days. All subjective, this is no Divine order. If you weren't basing yourself on CULTURALLY ESTABLISHED NORMS AND MORES, you'd be just as lost.

The sun is the God's creation period. How can you ascribe it and its many virtues - God given - to pagan deities?

I'm not the one ascribing it to that, I'm saying that humans have a natural nack to ascribe such things to The God, and hence it would seem LOGICAL that He would want His calendar to have nothing to do with the seasons so that we wouldn't be tempted to associate anything with Him.

Are you not aware of the way Islam consider astrology and other related pseudo-sciences. It would seem natural for God to make a system plainly dedicated to Him and simple to keep of track of, that the astrologers and suth sayers cannot manipulate for their own gain, claiming that such and such is due to this or that position of a star or of the Zodiac houses.

In fact, the pagan Arabs believed that rain and other events were dictated by stars and other regular cycles. So again, it's more logical that we are asked to follow a calendar not synched to the seasons, while still being able to tell the seasons.

To dismiss a calendar by ascribing its origin to paganism is short-sighted. You can similarly dismiss astronomy by saying it developed from astrology containing pagan concepts.

That is so not what I'm saying, but whatever.

Would you dismiss the utility of fire because the Zoroastrians worship it, or because the Greeks believed it was brought to earth by Prometheus?

I think you're mixing up your mytholofies there. Zoroastrians were monotheists initially and their fire worship has nothing to do with Prometheus.

Conclusion There is no mandate for a lunar calendar in the God's system. If you believe there is then bring your recipe/formula from the Koran.

Nor is there a mandate for a solar one. This is a matter of utmost importance, if the mandate was there, it would've been ALOT clearer in the Qur'an and wouldn't have needed the articles written here to explain it.

You keep acccusing me of following tradition, when here you are advocating a solar calendar that you're familiar with and you can't see your own prejudices and subjectivity in trying to make it fit the model.

Best Regards.

Salaam truth.

Note that the verse commences with the sun being radiant - for without it there is no light. The moon is not a light but a reflection of the sun's light.

Obviously.

One can learn to count years using rudimentary counting of whatever regular events one witnesses. But we are far beyond learning about a year and its calculation. We can use the sun and the stars as well as equations unknown to the Arab bedouin.

And that is exactly why the Prophet told his followers to sight the new moon in order to begin the months, instead of relying on the Rabbis of the day who already had a system in place to date the Lunar months without need to sight them. But he didn't want the early community to depend on Rabbis. See below.

The God knows humanity will progress. Every living thing lives according to the solar calendar. Trees and plants bloom or wither according to it; animals migrate, hibernate and act according to it. Why deny the signs that the God has presented for us?

Again, just because nature follows a certain pattern and seasons, doesn't mean that The God's calendar is the same. In fact, in order for us to serve only Him, I think it's more logical NOT to follow a Solar year with its cycles because peoples have fallen into polytheism and pagan worship by associating different times of the year with their gods. More on this later.

106 then again emphasises the alternation of night and day - a solar related event for timing the basic unit of time - the day. The moon cannot give you a 'day' - the moon reflects light from the sun.

Yes, the sun sets the alteration of the day and night. Actually no, the rotation of the earth sets that, the sun is only a light. Plus, look at all the difficulties people have had with setting a Solar calendar, not to mention the intercalation that have had to be put in place. You call that a perfect system? The Lunar model is much more reliable. More on this later.

There is nothing in 2189 that mandates a lunar calendar. It points out the obvious; that in the measurement of short periods of time the moon can provide a guide. They may be a timing device for the people; but a Rolex watch is also a timing device for the people.

The moon sets the rythm. The moon and the earth, according to modern findings, were created at the same time out of a huge cataclysm of two heavenly bodies. And hence, time on Earth is calculated according to the rotation/phases of the Moon because of this relationship. Nothing mandates a solar year either. The word YAWM being mentioned 365 is irrelevant, as it is obvious that what controls the day/night cycle is the Sun and hence there are that many cycles per solar rotation. This is in no way a mandate for a solar year either, it is simply not clear enough and not everyone thought of counting word occurences. Would The God have buried such a gem that deep and end up misleading millions for so long?

Out of curiousity. Have you examined the relationship of SANA and 3AM to each other? Or SHAMS and QAMAR? Maybe there's something there to enlighten us, let me know.

There are no whims. I've explained the verses you've put forward and shown you that there is no mandate for a lunar calendar and it makes no practical sense.

For you maybe 'cause you grew up with a gregorian calendar, which by the way is by no means perfect or precise. More on this later. What you might not find practical makes total sense to God. The solar calendar is purely based on deity worship, it is pagan in origin. Why would the Israelites use a Lunar calendar as well, as opposed to all the nations that surrounded them? In this is surely a hint.

Historical reports would also tell you that a camel is the fastest way across the desert; and that a sword is the weapon of choice in war. The Arabs also thought the earth was flat (regardless of how the Quranic verses are in harmony with modern science; the Arabs did not know it back then). Time moves on. History is history - to continue old practices for the sake of it is foolish.

You forget that the Arabs and Muslims had a long history of scientific progress and they KNEW the Earth was a sphere, I don't know where you heard that they thought the Earth was flat, other than the retarded statement by the Imam of Mecca in the 1970s pertaining to that. If you look at all Muslim maps and Qibla indicators of 8th - 16th century C.E., they clearly show a knowledge of a spherical Earth. NOT ONLY THAT, they knew the Sun was at the center of our solar system. So that argument is irrelevant. Afterall, Arabs developed the Scientific Method, and Astronomy owers a huge debt to them.

The things we are discussing actually have nothing whatever to do with the calendar.

Of course it does. It's the very basics of the whole Islamic system. You still haven't answered how the calendar might have been changed, and if it was, what this entails in regards to Allah's promise. And if it wasn't changed, then the confusion of the prophet and loss of credibility.

Like the previous post mentioned - the time of Ramadan is easy to determine without any precise calendar whatsoever. The first full moon after the heat of summer would be all they needed to begin fasting 10 days. Indeed even if they were wrong about the hottest period and chose one of the three full moons in the hot part of the year they'd still be correct.

That is if you decide to change the meaning of the word Ramadhan to fit your theory. Little do you know that the pre-Islamic Arabs named their months according to the time of the year, and hence Ramadhan, being the 9th month, was in fact after the hot months, since like the Jews, they would add a 13th months to keep it aligned with the solar. But this was clearly reprimanded by Allah and His messenger and so the months are 12, and lunar. It so happened that in that specific year of Revelation beginning, it was Ramadhan.

And so it is for us - however we have a means of calculating precisely each year the summer solstice and thus it is even easier for us.

Ah yes..Pagan summer solstice. Did you ever think that The God doesn't want us to associate anything with Him and hence He intentionally made His calendar follow the Moon-Earth cycle since that is the marker of Earth's Creation in its present form, and has no risk of being associated with cycles and astronomical influences. Yet here you are, wanting to make us celebrate on the same days as pagan rituals, while God wants us not to associate His months with any natural event. Just like He taught the prophet that eclipses are a Sign, and are not connected to any event on earth.

Again. There is no mandate for a lunar calendar. To determine the timing of the important events - fasting one does not require a lunar calendar; and nor does the meeting/debate ie. hajj require it (note above 2189 was explained).

Of couse it wouldn't if you start changing the very basic meaning of the words. Of course Ramadhan's root falls under HOT or whatever it is you guys interpret it as, because that was the name of the month of post-heat to the Arabs. The name of the month itself is inconsequential!

By your own admission you call sighting by eye as being backward. If you are using calculation and satellites then that is a step in the right direction - there is only one year of significance - that is the solar year that has been adopted almost universally.

There is no justification to use a lunar calendar whichever way you argue it. There is only one thing it does do - and that is impose the Arab backwardness upon a modern world.

I beg to differ. First of all, a lunar calendar never posed a problem to Muslim nations, empires, poeples throughout history. Only in the last 200 years, since the European colonial conquests has the Gregorian come into use, and since then has stayed there. So if it seems more universal, it's only by imperial imposition.

ALSO, the Arabs were alot more advanced than any other nation for at least a solid 700 years, if not 1000. You cannot deny this fact, so whatever "backwardness" the Arabs are in right now, has nothing to do with it. I could say that you're imposing a solar pagan based calendar because "it seems to fit better with our world". Screw that, worship the Sun God if you wish....

One major outcome of the Lunar calendar is that there is no fixed relationship between the months of this calendar and the seasons of the year, the equinox, the solstice, or other planetary movements. THAT IS THE POINT!

And now for the "More on this later" part..Let's consider a couple of things here brother

Developing a calendar that stays in step with the seasons has been a challenge for humanity for quite some time, extending all the way to the present. Studies of these attempts show that for more than 5000 years, humanity has developed a number of different calendars of varying degrees of accuracy that try to fit neatly together the days and months into a year that matches the time for the earth to make one complete trip around the sun.

Keep in mind the roles that seasons have played in the lives of people. To anticipate the season's arrival helped people gain food, told them when to hunt animals and when to plant crops. It also determined migration patterns for some humans and animals in search for food or better living conditions. Today, many industries depend on seasonal movement of goods and the provision of services. Selling and providing clothes, air conditioners, tax consulting, etc. all depend to some extent on seasonal trends.

Among other reasons, calendars have been developed as a means to keep track of the passage of time in such a way that the seasons can be anticipated accurately. They are designed to count the days and organize them into units of weeks, months, and years. These units are generally derived from recurrent astronomical cycles, which are the most regular and are among the most conspicuous changes in the creation.

As examples, the month and probably the week, come from the phases of the moon, while the solar year stems from the tilted earth's rotation about the sun. Though, at first thought, it might seem that observing these cycles and measuring them would be an easy matter, it turns out that it is not. Even today, there does not exist -- and cannot exist -- a completely accurate solar calendar that stays in step with the seasons.

BUT..FALSE WORSHIP!

While making the observations needed to develop these calendars, humanity has shown a strong tendency to also worship these heavenly objects. In part, their thinking was that somehow these objects controlled peoples' existence on earth, since the seasons seemed to come and go according to their movement.

The Sumerians, a society that formed along the banks of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers about 5000 years ago, had specialists who kept records of their observations. Since the economy of the Sumerians depended on plowing, sowing, tending and harvesting irrigated fields of plants at definite times of the year, the role of the record keepers became very important. They were thought to be liaisons with the gods, on whose goodwill the prosperity of the society relied.

Years later the Babylonians made adjustments to the calendar used by the Sumerians. After lengthy observations, it was noted that every 19 years the solar and lunar cycles matched. With this information, they worked out a system of calendar correction that increased the accuracy of the solar calendar in staying in step with the seasons.

A major incentive for this work, however, was to appease the actions of the gods whom they thought were in control. The idea was that certain extra days were needed to be added to the calendar to keep it in harmony with the seasons, and therefore with the gods. By knowing when to add these "holy days" in honor of the gods, and spending the days in feasting and religious services, the Babylonians thought they were celebrating the gifts given to them by the gods.

Centuries later, Julius Caesar came to power in a different part of the world and presided over the next major reform to solar calendar making. He kept the major features of the Egyptian calendar that was based on a 365 day cycle, but incorporated the practice of adding an extra day to the month of February on every fourth year. The particular year on which he authorized this practice is called "the year of confusion," because in order to bring the calendar in step with these seasons, that year had to contain 445 days instead of the regular 365 days.

Though the Julian calendar lasted for over 1500 years, it contained a built-in error -- a gain of one day every 128 years -- that kept piling up. By the time Pope Gregory 13th came to power, it was determined that an error of 10 days had occurred. In the year 1582 according to the solar calendar, Gregory shortened the year by 10 days and revised the leap year rule. The Gregorian calendar, as it is now called, is accurate to within one day in every 3,323 years.

Throughout this historical summary of solar calendars, several common threads are evident. They include dominant elements of worship of false gods or some portions of Allah's creation, and an ongoing effort to add or subtract time in order to keep the days and months fixed in relation to the seasons.

The most popular calendar in use today, the Gregorian calendar, retains large amounts of these elements. Many of the months of the year and all the days of the week are named in honor of false gods or pay tribute to portions of Allah's creation. Sunday or the "Sun's day" and Monday or the "Moon's day" honor the sun and the moon. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday are all named after false gods inherited from Teutonic tribes. Friday in particular, means Fria's day. Fria was the Teutonic goddess of love. Can you imagine going to "Friday prayer?"
(forget the whole debate about the meaning of Salaat at this point)

All of the "holy days" that are featured in the Gregorian calendar are tied to pagan traditions. And the majority of the months are named after a false god. Yet, it is this calendar that most of the world turns to, including Muslims. Each year Muslims struggle through Ramadan, trying to determine whether we should sight the crescent or calculate its appearance or do both, while we conduct our affairs using a calendar whose origins and current emphasis is centered on association of false gods with Allah. Would it be fair to say that we might have missed something here?

January from Janus, a god of beginnings
February from Februss, an Italian god
March from Mars, a god of war and agriculture
April from Aphro, a goddess of love
May from Maiesta, a goddess of honor
June from Juno, an Italian goddess
July after Julius Caesar
August after Augustus Caesar
September from septem (seven)
October from octo (eight)
November from novem (nine)
December from decem (ten)

During the farewell message of Allah's last Messenger and Prophet, Muhammad, peace be with him, two revelations were given to humanity. In one of them he formally abolished the practice of intercalation. This means that it is unlawful to add or subtract time from the calendar. In the other, he stated that now Allah has returned time to the shape that He gave it at the moment of creation.

The significance of these revelations is far reaching. Through them Allah had defined time in an absolute way that no human could ever achieve. By abolishing intercalation, the impact is to define the characteristic of time known as interval or duration in time in a distinct way. This means that months cannot be lengthened or shortened by adding or subtracting days or part of a day, and defines each month as a unique description of time. Consequently, Muharram, Safar, ... all represent distinct blocks of time by name.

Through the other revelation, Allah has defined the characteristic of time known as epoch or location in time. With this, Allah fixes the order of the months to a fixed point in creation, that point being the moment that He began creation. From this we now know that when we arrive at Ramadan each year, we have truly arrived at Ramadan. Of course, this is true for all the other months of the year, which is no trivial matter, as they represent those blocks of time that account for eleven-twelfths of our lives each year.

In light of this information, it is clear that the method of assigning names to the months of the year and giving the months a certain number of days, cannot be arbitrary. Or in other words, there are "right answers" to the questions, "What day is today?" and "What month are we in now?" These right answers are provided by Allah through the use of the calendar He has given humanity.

Just as we have the responsibility for striving for the targets and implementing the objectives given to us by Allah in the other areas of our daily lives, this also applies to the method that we choose to keep time. In fact, the process of setting targets and trying to implement objectives is the underlying reason for us to understand and use the Islamic calendar.

Allah has given humanity the special gift of being able to manipulate time. Because of this gift, we can recapture the past through recorded events, whether on video tape, digital media, etc. We can also summon up things to come, displaying imagination and foresight along with memory. Our unique ability to employ past, present, and planned events to manipulate time, plays a vital role in our striving to fulfill our responsibilities and prepare for the future.

If we come to the conclusion that we cannot develop our understanding and use of the Islamic calendar to support planning for the future, then the only choices that we have left are to use calendars that violate the revelations given to humanity as a mercy from Allah. Such a conclusion will result in our continuing to use the Islamic calendar for "religious events," and calendars based on false worship for "civil events."

This means that as we schedule our community activities, we must use one of these other calendars because we either don't know or don't agree on what day it is on the Islamic calendar. It also means that our organizations, as they try to develop 3-year or 5-year strategic plans, must use some alternative calendar. Can you imagine Allah giving us a calendar we can't use for planning? Can you imagine an Islamic organization preparing strategically for the future using a calendar based on false worship? It is, indeed, an interesting situation.

(I cant take credit for the last parts, i have it on a PDF file a friend sent me)

IN CONCLUSION Following a solar calendar is actually pagan worship.

So ya. Salaam!

.m

sigh

So 'splain this

106 He is the One who made the sun to emit light, and the moon to reflect it, and He measured its phases so that you would know the number of the years and the count. God has not created this except for truth. He details the revelations for a people who know.

Why would Allah say this about the moon. Yet you are completing disregarding any use of the moon for yearly calculations?

2189 They ask you regarding the new moons, Say "They are a timing mechanism for the people as well as for the Hajj." And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whomever is righteous and come to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of God that you may succeed.

You forget one thing, yes Allah doesn't want hardship on us, but He also wants us to do things in a certain way. To deny the Hijri calendar completely is ludicrous. You're following your own whims on this issue. Also, you can choose to ignore the Hadith on this matter, but you cannot ignore historical reports and the practice of following the calendar since the prophet's time. It's not always about what is most logical, some things are counter-intuitive. So I'm still unconvinced that the current Lunar Calendar is flawed and that for 1400 years, no one has ever bothered to notice what you claim you find in the Qur'an.

There have been many Qur'an Only sects in the past, Free-Minds and Submitters are not the first. Surely, they would've exposed something like this as well. Not to mention that people would've resisted any change to the calendar that the prophet lived by, if it was altered. So either you're saying the prophet was confused by living according to the Lunar Calendar, and hence he loses all credibility, which means you cannot confirm that what is in your hands is the actual Word of The God. Or the calendar was changed afterwards and thus The God did not keep His promise to preserve the Message and thus has doomed so many generations to Hell. So which is it?

For the pagan Meccans to revert to a Lunar Calendar after the prophet departed, they might as well have altered the Qur'an while they were at it. And this, subversively since they were all reverts to Islam. We also know that the Jews follow a Lunar Calendar, which is adjusted to match a solar year, but they do this by adding a 13th months, but they are chastised for doing so. So to me this means, we are to use a Lunar Calendar, since the very community that received the majority of prophets followed such a calendar, but with their own whims added to it to make it align to a solar cycle. But they were corrected in this practice by the prophet. So again, i still see no proof for using a solar calendar other than for seasons and natural cycles. But did you ever think that The God might actually be asking us to follow what may seem to you as a "flawed" or "non-efficient" system, for other reasons than what you outline. It's part of Servitude to the Master of the Universe.

GRANTED, some Muslim countries are sticking to the backwardness of relying purely on eye witness sightinings to decide the begining of the months, but no where is there contradiction to start computing this and actually be able to make proper calendars so that you can plan your civic life accordingly. In fact, Egypt is about to launch a satellite for the sole purpose of setting a Lunar Calendar based on computation.

If you wish. But then what stops one from worshipping the poem for its beauty, since he never sees the poet? It becomes too dangerous to think in those terms cuz ppl then easily fall into shirk

If we are not our minds, nor our bodies, nor anything else, we are non-beings. We are non-created. we are pure potential for creation in God's Mind..if we can call it that.

The Sufis explain it as that everything that is in creation right now, was non-creation before it, and God decided to make it reality on one or several levels of reality. Heaven Hell Earth are just different dimensions of reality, the life of this world "7ayat al dunya" is literraly, the "lowest life" or the "lowest reality".

Mystics describe a cosmic consciousness, where they become part of a greater consciousness and are aware of a "everything", doesnt necessarily mean that they tapped directly into God's Mind and melted into it. It could simply mean that since God says that evertything in Creation has consciousness and is aware, and thus glorifies Him, then that cosmic consciousness is just that, the sum of all Creation..the Oneness of Creation....CREATION.....the CREATOR is wholly seperate/different from His Creation. But of course, since HE is Infinite and boundless, it is not logical to say that He is "up there", that would be non sense anyway.

So Creation doesn't occupy a space "outside" of God since He is infinite anyway, but think of God as the CPU/RAM/HD of your computer, and we are the software that is running on it. Sprites. no more no less. Doesn't mean we are the same as the hardware itself, but the hardware allows the existence and execution of the programs.

Ya that's nothing new. Ibn Al-Arabi discusses this..RUmi and most Sufis too as well.

It's not for no reason that Allah says in the Quran
And indeed We have created man, and We know what his ownself whispers to him. And We are nearer to him than his jugular vein. (Qaf 5016)

Or that
The Day when the Trumpet will be blown (the second blowing) that Day, We shall gather the Mujrim?n Zurqa. In whispers will they speak to each other "You stayed not longer than ten days". We know very well what they will say, when the best among them in knowledge and wisdom will say "You stayed no longer than a day!" (Ta-Ha 20102-104)

You should look into "The Self-Discolosure of God - Principles of Ibn Al-Arabi's Cosmology" or "Ibn Al-Arabis Metaphysics of Imagination - The Sufi Path of Knowledge".

Even documentaries and books on HarunYahya.com allude constantly to this reality being an illusion, a dream from which we will wake up. And that it is all happening within our minds. So if the external world is all in our minds and there is no reality to it other than what the senses tell us, than the mind is the only thing that perceives. And what is mind other than the expression of the soul?

BUT, you shouldn't mistake all this for Wihdat Al-Wujud, or the Oneness of everything. Indeed God is One, and everything in essence is one. But it doesn't mean that WE are GOD, and that GOD is everything. Since God several times says that He is incomparable and nothing can be associated with Him.

http//www.harunyahya.com/m_video_detail.php?api_id=1271

hehe no im saying that if the restricted months were for strictly wildlife preservation, and not just necessarily "holy", it would make more sense that they move aroudn the year and they NOT be consecutive, since mating season isnt the same in both hemispheres AND you also need phases of culling herds.

Hence makes more sense that the lunar calendar is shiftign to take this into account, rather than having an Islamic calendar that is stuck to the seasons as per the sticky article.

Also,

Is not mating season the opposite on northern/souther hemisphere..so to say that the 4 restricted months are for wildlife conservation is nonsense since the oposite hemisphere would not be in the same season.

However..i can see that the 4 months, if not consecutive..can work for wildlife conservation since in its rotation..it would take into account different areas. and also, in order not to allow overpopulation..which does happen..the non hunting season changes....so its a 19year cycle right?

oh AND..how do u explain the difference in the use of the word NAHAR and YAWM for the word DAY. and then SANA and 3AM for years. "traditioanl" scholars see the latter 2 as the difference between a solar and lunar year.

Ok so according to this view of Salaat. What would be the meaning of 3356?

All?h and His angels send their Salaat on the Prophet. O you who believe! Send your Salaat on him, and salute him with the best of salutation.

How should we understand the Salaat that God sends down on the prophet?