Peace to all,

Another topic I would like to hear your thoughts on ..

These verses seem to encompass all that mention the words (all words between parenthesis are the traditional english translations)

1)ROOH QUDUS

287 We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with AL-ROOH AL-QUDUS (holy spirit). Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

16102 Say, AL-ROOH AL-QUDUS (Holy Spirit) has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.

2. ROOH AMEEN

26193 With it came down AL-ROOH AL-AMEEN (the spirit of Faith and Truth).

3. ROOH (only)

1785 They ask thee concerning AL-ROOH (Spirit of inspiration). Say "AL-ROOH (The Spirit) (cometh) by command of my Lord of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"

162 He doth send down His angels with ROOH (inspiration?) of His Command, to such of His servants as He pleaseth, (saying) "Warn (Man) that there is no god but I so do your duty unto Me."

1529 "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him from ROOHEE (My spirit), fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

1917 She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our ROOH (angel?), and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

2191 And (remember) her who guarded her chastity We breathed into her of our ROOH (spirit), and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

329 But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His ROOH (spirit). And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding) little thanks do ye give!

3872 "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My ROOH (spirit), fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

4015 Raised high above ranks (or degrees), (He is) the Lord of the Throne (of Authority) by His Command doth He send the ROOH (Spirit of inspiration) to any of His servants he pleases, that it may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting,-

4252 And thus have We, by Our Command, sent ROOH (inspiration) of our command to thee thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and what was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will; and verily thou dost guide (men) to the Straight Way,-

6612 And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our ROOH (spirit); and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

704 The angels and the ROOH (spirit) ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years

7838 The Day that the ROOH (Spirit) and the angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by ((Allah)) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right.

974 Therein come down the angels and the ROOH (Spirit) by Allah's permission, on every errand;

Now verse (when read in arabic)

(1785) They ask thee concerning AL-ROOH (Spirit of inspiration). Say "AL-ROOH (The Spirit) (cometh) by command of my Lord of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"

For traditional explanations, seems to reflect some sort of "prohibition" into asking about that issue of ROOH .. the english translation does not seem to carry the same "subtle warning" unless I am misreading the verse ..

But is there a difference between ROOH, ROOH QUDUS, ROOH AMEEN ?

And are they as claimed by many that Gabriel is the ROOH mentioned?

Now regarding Gabriel/Michael

297 Say Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel for he brings down the (revelation) to thy heart by Allah's will, a confirmation of what went before, and guidance and glad tidings for those who believe,- 298 Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and apostles, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith.

664 If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so inclined; But if ye back up each other against him, truly Allah is his Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who believe,- and furthermore, the angels - will back (him) up.

Traditional understanding is that Gabrial could be seen as one of the angels but higher in rank and also is the same as AL-ROOH AL-AMEEN and AL-ROOH AL_QUDUS and many times referred to as -ROOH alone (as per visiting Mary)

I will stop here and try to think over the link spanning the verses .. I do wish to know if anyone had given this more thought

Peace to all,

Seems that many groups are waiting for a return of Jesus Christ, some say alone some say with Al-Mahdi .. etc.

Are the verses in the Quran clear on that issue?

Also .. the Quran seems to mention Jesus was "tawafa" which is known to refer to natural death (not murdered or killed .. those are "qotela") .. so did he die after the crucifixion but was in a coma while on the cross ..

or

Was he "towofeya" while on the corss but was not due to the crucifixion itself, instead God took his soul ?

I am so far more convinced with the fact that he died after the crucifixion, he was in a coma during the crucifixion process, he was taken down alive (as per the Ahmad Deedat analysis on that issue) and that could explain why he spoke to the disciples after the crucifixion .. however .. I am very skeptical of the "second coming of Christ" deal be it with Muslims or Christians etc .. I tend to think that it is over .. no more Jesus coming back etc .. any thoughts on this?

Peace to all,

There are several points I would like to make, some may not be original since many of you may have come to the same conclusions but no harm in trying

1. The distinct usage of plural or singular in the Quran when refering to actions .. examples "We breathed..." Verse (2191) with regards to the creation of Jesus in contrast with "I breathed..." (1529) with regards to the creation of Adam. -- "We" is always used when the action is done involving angels .. while "I" had no such thing.

2. The verse (3041) - The "traditional" translation goes as follows

3041 Mischief has appeared on land and sea because of (the meed) that the hands of men have earned, that ((Allah)) may give them a taste of some of their deeds in order that they may turn back (from Evil).

The word FASAD is translated mischief .. however when I read this verse it comes very strongly to me that the verse is a "prophecy" of sorts about POLLUTION and the worsening environement .... and the reason I think of that is the reference that it is in both LAND and WATER .. I am not sure if there were known cases of piracy at that time for people to know that mischief can be on land as well as water .. or perhaps sea battles .. but everytime I look at it it all adds up together to mean POLLUTION especially when the reason is given "BEMA KASABAT AYDEE AL-NAS" roughly meaning by what the people earn (as in profit and "labor") althpough it also can mean what they have done in general.

What do you think on that one, would it be a warning against bad environmental policies that cause pollution? I sure hope so it is not an irrelevant issue and I am sure God would mention something about such thing in the Quran .. as in FASAD meaning pollution!

Also the chapter Al-Rum (Romans) seems to have "prophecies of sort" in addition the first half of it tends to focus on the signs in nature earth water etc etc

3. Regarding the verse (665) which is addressed in the Reformist Quran Translation

http//www.yuksel.org/e/books/rtq.htm

I somehow see that the verse can be translated as follows

If he divorces you, his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submitters, believers, devoted, repentant, worshipful, active in their societies, virgins AND previously married. (665)

I read the argument for saying "thayebaat wa abkara" to mean connected, and progressive .. but let me say this

The verse is speaking to "several" women not one .. it spoke to the "wives" of the prophet .. so the replacements the verse warned will ALL have the first portion of being submitters, believers, devoted, repentant, worshipful, active in their societies (which in the arabic verse did not have the 'WAW' letter (AND) between all of them and ends with two adjectives thayebat wa abkara .. the verse can be seen to mean virgins and previously married WHO all share the previous adjectives .. since the wives of the prophet were plural the replacmenets would be plural and would be of both virgin AND previously married status ..

Moreover, if we look at the previous verse it said "tatooba" which is addressing "two" of the prophets wives (one I think was supposed to be Aisha but not sure whom was a virgin when the prophet married her and the other was a thayeb previously married) the verse was about one wife telling another a secret .. if it were speaking to more than two I think thje verb would be "tatubn" .. however I wonder if God meant he would replace both of them (one virgin and one previously married) with two others of the same on that but with better "faith" ?

Also, this does not require the "OR" mistake at all in fact the AND may in a subtle way be an assertion from God that a virgin is not better than a previously married woman in status (as found in some cultures)

Although we agree that both wrods abkaran and thayebaat do have several meanings I see that the verse would be valid if we take the traditional meanings .. it would for one assert that women are not to be treated differently as per virgin or not .. and for the argument that SUCH a use would validate the allowance to marry more than one virgin it would not apply since the verse is speaking about the prophet and his wives and such allowance would only be for the prophet (since he too married more than 4 wives and the limit of 4 was not applied to him too)

So the verse would be more like this

If he divorces you, his Lord will substitute other wives in your place who are better than you; submitters, believers, devoted, repentant, worshipful, active in their societies, BOTH previously married and virgins.

perhaps we need to look at the grammar of arabic with regards to stating several adjectives in succession without WAW (and) and then the last two would have a WAW (and) and see if it fits that the last the successive adjectives would apply equally to each of the last two .. I hope I am not confusing you all with this ..

it is like in math distributive property saying ====> A.B.C.(D+E)

especially that in arabic is unlike English in that the AND before the last enumeration is not used .. so it should not be translated to mean
A, B, C, D, and E .. instead A.B.C.(D and E)

I think I may have more observations while reading the Quran .. I will post more when I collect them

Peace.