Thanks Jafar, This means that the sacred place was not built by Abraham and also Solomon was not related to the same religion that considers that building in Makkah as the most sacred place and wrongly associate Abraham (Ibrahim) / Solomon (Sulayman) as part of their religion citing Quran verses as per their view and version of Islam.

Who's is actually corrupt? The group who try to form affiliations with past, OR the religion itself. If not both, should i stop breaking my head about one group/religion vs other and call ALL as corrupt/irrelevant. If I still insist that I am not an atheist and also no more a religious person, then who am I following / believing. Although, having or not having any sacred time, place, book, people is gradually becoming irrelevant for me, I still feel an urge to search for Rabb. Should I accept that all religious + non-religious sources (including rituals, scriptures, beliefs, concepts, people, etc) would provide some value and are subject to some corruption, so accept what is right and reject what's not and when I discover what I considered right earlier is no more so and vice-versa, just take a u-turn - keep going this way!!

Pata Nahi!!

Thanks all, for your feedback

Would you agree that all religions believe in certain sacred time, place, books, people, etc which is necessary to follow their rituals and practise their chosen/adopted/inherited religion(s). I understand that today's reality is that kaaba in Makkah is the central place for its followers - the sacred place. If that sacred place was in existence in ancient past also (must-be built by someone important), I wonder what could have been the reason for building another significantly important sacred place by another significantly important person belonging to the same religion. Was it for different purposes (education, administrative, location convenience, etc)? Does it mean that there were more than one sacred places that were simultaneously in active operations by different people/group within the same religion at the same time in past with equal importance?

@Truthseeker11
By the way, Patanahi means 'I dont know' when you read as pata nahi (urdu words). I chose this name for the forum to acknowledge the fact about myself. I want If to explore different versions of known stories I studied (during schooling, etc) and learn what I can't get to know from people face-to-face. Please feel free to pass on any piece of information that is useful (no matter how bizarre it is considered). I shall await from you the information on biblical stories/their origin as referred in your post.

Thanks and Regards

Shirk = As follows
I want to visit my friend but I don?t know the location of his house. He guided me with facts, how to reach there. I believed what he said and started my journey but half way through, I stopped and asked somebody to guide me towards that place and continued thereafter but couldn?t reach there. I called my friend that I lost my way. He guided me again, but couldn?t help me reach the target because I am continuously involving others (who don?t know my friend?s house). I am not doing with purpose, but the fact is I can?t reach there unless I follow him alone and follow his guidance.
Why Shirk is unforgivable = As follows
My friend does not hold any grudge against me if I can?t find his house OR if I ask others (ignorant people) to help me guide to his house. He did not announce any unforgivable punishment if I can?t reach his home and/or if I can?t follow his guidance. He is simply telling me that it is my wish to reach him (and not his wish that I find him or his house). At my request, he is helping me with his guidance in various forms + on a number of occasions. The outcome is that if I believe in shirk OR commit shirk OR both, I would never reach the target and would be completely lost + run out of gas and my car will stop.

Conclusion
He is not having a python (for instance) to punish me if I ask others for guidance. He is not concerned if I believe him or others. He doesn?t mind if say that I believe him but follow others guidelines in order to find the way to reach his home. Furthermore, whenever I called him, he is responding to my calls and trying to guide me despite my ignorance, lack of faith in his guidance, whatever. Eventually, if don?t reach where I was supposed to, its my lookout and I will face the consequences but he is not preparing any ground for punishment. He is Al-Samad.

......because that was when I first realized the real reason why I'm being here in earth, so this life is not what I'm thinking about before, it is not about living as good, kind people as I believed earlier, it is actually not enough.....

Hi Donnyw
Your quote above is interesting for me as I have started to feel exactly the opposite of what you have mentioned i.e. Earlier, from a so called religious person, I feel these days that that the real reason why I am being here on earth (so this life is actually what I never thought before) is actually about living as good, kind person and it is actually seems to be enough for me these days. Seems I am going in a wrong direction!!

This is what I have been thinking earlier and despite changing my focal point a number of times, I feel getting nowhere!!

Salam and welcome

Any views about Dr Qamaruzzaman's views and literal/newer interpretation of the Qur'an and it's important concepts like Hajj, Salat, Saum??

http//www.aastana.com/blog/default.asp

and

http//www.aastana.com/

Thanks in advance

Mubashir

???

I tried but can't access the website - is there any error in posting the address? can someone provide the correct address to access the info, please

Thanks

I received this via chain of emails people circulate to each other without verifying the source.

Do you suggest that I reply to those spreading these rumours in the name of Quran and clarify about it. I am not sure, because most likely I'll get backfired.

Its sad that ignorant people spread such messages to support the unsupported.

Shalom,

Its like when your lover sends you a letter, you doubt the love because the letter is not about the postman !!!! Why would it be about the postman in the first place. If you are truly in love, read the words in that letter and try to understand your lover instead of focusing on the postman or the postal service.

PEACE be on you, may God be pleased with you
------------------------------------------------------------- Student of Allah

Was it the love letter sent through a post man!! OR was it a message/guidance/knowledge sent through a teacher? Would the character of that teacher be completely irrelevant? Do we draw no line in distinguishing between the Post man and/or the Teacher? Especially, if that teacher wasn't only teaching the book but was also providing practical demonstrations also for the students to facilitate their learning and for their own practice.

Calling that post man makes the case very simple but looking in the context of (1) Teacher + (2) Practical Guide/Demonstrator/Trainer would cause the trouble which people of today's age are going through because it is hard to find reliable info on that topic. But, the question is if we cannot get to know the truth, shall we ignore the fact and reality and provide comfort to ourselves by calling him post man!!

How about someone take my home + few more homes of others around me for such a great cause and make hospital, university, etc for the benefit of mankind. Does my home or our homes must be a fixed place in a building covered with brick and mortar. I may seek refuge on a daily basis in various places with various people and dont need a bayt / house for my day to day needs.

And really, this prayer, pilgrimmage, etc is really causing stain to religion with a lot of waste of money. How about applying the same concept on Las Vegas and similar areas like 5-star hotels offering open opportunities of prostitution, gambling, etc to people. Let us have charity hospital in those places as well in place of places that cause stain to the society similar to the one causing stain due to pilgrimmage. Oh! maybe that's not a good idea, because the civilized world and their business pursuits need structures like those in Vegas and those galaxy start hotels. Lets demolish Baytullah. That is the most reasonable solution and no one has any issues with it. Atleast I am happy that a place causing stain to our society would be destroyed.

Thanks for your comments HM.

Still finding out bro! The next verses to study would be those concerning marriage, relationships and sex to determine whether homosexuality is permitted. I haven't covered those topics yet, but inshAllah I will do.

Based on your quote above, which you posted in response to a question about "if homosexuality is permitted", did you later find out the answer and what was the conclusion finally?

I do not want to work for anyone because to me, one point or another you will either be committing shirk or be very close to it if you are working for someone else, its just too hard to avoid it

Can you elaborate further on the above remarks
Thanks

Yesterday, I was listening to an audio CD (a lecture by a Javed Ahmed Ghamdi ? translation of Quranic verses 2134 ? 2143). From what I understood or misunderstood that he emphasized about the context of change of Qiblah by referring to verses 2134141 whereby Allah?s message was rejected by Yahud and Nasara due their prejudice.
As a result, they were deprived by Allah of their (earlier elevated) status including the change of Qiblah from previously followed on to the one now prescribed by Allah after depriving rejecters off their elevated status due to their rejection.
Therefore, upon enquiry by ?Al Sufahao? about change from previous Qiblah (2142) (i.e. the Qiblah followed by Yahud earlier), Allah guided believers how to respond to their query. And then Allah explained in 2143 why He initially ordered believers to follow previous Qiblah (ie Qiblah followed by Yahud earlier) just to test if new comers would follow Messenger in obeying Allah?s order.
To summarize, upon attaining Itmm al-hujjah (various verses in chapter 2 that ended on 2141) on Yahud and Nasara, Allah deprived the rejecters from the earlier recognized status and guided believers to follow prescribed Qiblah which is in practice till today.

Just wanted to share my understanding with you people and would like to have feedback from all who can help me gain some understanding of the matter.

Regarding one of the posts from Bigmo, asking me why I need to be specific or too concerned about the Qibla location. Actually since Masjid Al Haram is our Qiblah, therefore, I understand that we can take Salat from there, which means I get justification for following the time/way/form of salat as it is offered in Masjid Al Haram (based on one of the lectures of IIPC.tv (Muhammad Sheikh)).

You intentionally did not include one count from the first unnumbered verse (68 0) and there are three N?s in 681 not two manipulator. 133 (19*7)

In regards to 9128-129 I have already told you that there is both historical and physical evidence that shows that 9128-129 do not belong in the Quran.

Dear Kevin, Sorry to say (and I mean it), but trust me looking at your above post, it seems as if you are trying to manipulate by addign extra 'Noon' in 681 and then ignoring 'Waw' in your code 19 count because it does not appear to be the multiple of 19.
Regarding 9128-129, you are talking about 'historical evidence'? That is really confusing because it seems that you are trying to prove Quran verses wrong in the light of corrupt history?
Regarding physical evidence of excluding 9128-129, can you elaborate further please for my understanding.
As requested earlier, can you please let me know what should be the total number of acceptable Quranic verses (to fit your 19 multiple), because the current count of total verses (even after excluding those 2 verses) still dont fit on 19 multiple (19x350=6,650 and 19x351=6,669). Does that mean you may have to find more verses to be deleted/added to fit the calculation.

Please don't ignore my request, because as mentioned earlier, I accpet that my posts reflect lack of understanding/knowledge of these matters and I am certainly below the level demonstrated by people on this forum, but I still aspire to gain the knowledge and therefore not shy in asking questions that bother my mind with a hope to receive concrete responses from people here.

Regards

The ones located in Mekka - Arabia, are simply small mounds (hilltops) which it is claimed the wife of Abraham ran back and forth....

The "true" Safa and Marwa are from the symbols of God associated with the Temple/Masjid and are and have always been a permenant part of the pilgrimage.

Salam Layth, firstly I would like to clarify that I didn?t mention about what others believe/claim about wife of Abraham ran back and forth?., etc. No, that wasn?t the point.

The only reason I have asked about Al Safa and Al Marwa, was to attempt to find out the location of Masjid Al Haram (Is it Makkah or Jerusalem). Since, you have been using the reference of present day Bakka/Baka/Baca? located in Jerusalem, I thought of checking with you (on similar basis) about the location of the present day Al Safa and Al Marwa which is found near Masjid Al Haram in Makkah.

From you answer, it is not clear to me why the argument of matching Quranic Bakka/Baka/Baca with the present day Bakka/Baka/Baca in Jerusalem is acceptable? While at the same time similar argument of matching (1) Al Safa, (2) Al Marwa with present day Al Safa and Al Marwa located in Makkah is not acceptable for you? Furthermore, on this basis (as we discussed earlier in the same topic on this forum) why Masjid Al Aqsa mentioned in Quran (which is far located Masjid away from Masjid Al Haram) cannot be traced to actual Masjid Haram located in Jerusalem.

The confusion arises in my mind is because if one accepts the argument, then it guides the location of Masjid Al Haram towards Makkah, but if one doesn?t accept the argument, then the location is guiding towards Jerusalem?

For a Quran-alone beginner like me, what shall I do? What should be my focal point? Why are people here who claimed to be Quran-alone followers here are are unable to find the correct location of Masjid Al Haram? Is Quran not clear? or we have ego S(ame like sunnis, haditith, shiites, others) that we cannot unite with earch other?

Muslism prayed towards Jerusalem since the early days of the prophet and acknowledge it as the "1st Qibla";

Regards,

Regarding the point mentioned about 1st Qiblah and the change in Qiblah (focal point) in the above post, one of my friend told me the following points about change Qiblah (focal point)

1. As per verses 675-78, Allah showed Ibraheem (AS) the system of governance of skies and earth for his nation to finally conclude that they should not ascribe partners to Allah;
2. Therefore, verse 2144 points out that as a result of Messenger?s frequent turning to skies (as per 675-7, where the conclusion was drawn to revert back (from previous frequent turning to skies) to the first house built as a Qiblah/focal point);
3. Accordingly I was told that, the points about 1st Qiblah/change in Qiblah/etc are discussed and believed based on corrupt historic records which are not in line with Quranic verses. Therefore, the question about muslims facing Jerusalem earlier, etc does not arise and cannot be justified in the light of Quran.

Please can people on this forum comment on the above to help me understand the context of above verses in relation to Qiblah/change of Qiblah.

Regards

Salam Patanahi,

Not exactly. What is being said is that there are only one Safa & Marwa, but that these are located in Baka at the Masjid Haram (as the Quran states) - and that Baka is Jerusalem.

Hi Layth, Can you please advise your comments about that Safa & Marwa i.e. located in Makkah http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Safa_and_Al-Marwah

Dear Kevin, I have assumed from your posts that you are convinced to remove the 2 verses 9128 and 9129 because that doesn't fit your calculation. Going by that, what should be the correct number of total ayats in Quran? If we take a multiple of 350 (19 x 350=6,650 verses) or if we take another multiple of 351 (19 x 351= 6,669 verses). Apparently, it looks like that neither of the multiples would fit in with the total no. of verses in Quran, even if you delete or add back the 2 verses. Then, how do we conclude about the total no of verses in Quran? Do we need to suggest adding some to fit in your calculation or should we look out for deleting more verses to make these equal to the multiple of 19?

Thanks SEid

What will be distribution guideline in case the deceased man leaves behind
3 daughters (2/3rd)
1 wife (1/8th)
1 father (1/6th)
1 mother (1/6th)
because the above exceeds 100%

Thanks for your help

Peace,

It's not always the case, rather a straight distribution depending on # of females.

Example case of only one daughter, she gets 1/2 regardless # of sons...

411 ...and if she is one so for her the half

1 daughter, 1 son -- each gets equal share or 1/2

http//chart.apis.google.com/chart?cht=p&chd=t1,1&chs=200x100&chl=female|%20males&chco=

1 daughter, 2 sons -- daughter gets 1/2, each son 1/4 (she gets 2X)
1 daughter, 3 sons -- daughter gets 1/2, each son 1/6 (she gets 3X)

There's nothing to interpret or explain, it's a case of follow the instructions verbatim.

My understanding or misunderstanding is as follows (Pls clarify so i can get rid of the confusion)

If 1 daughter alone (with no sons), then she gets 50%, but if 1 daughter and 1 son, then the daughter gets 1 share and the son gets 2 shares i.e. 33.33% to daughter and 66.67% to son.

Just for my understanding I want to reconfirm about the comments on Al Safa and Al Marwa. Are we saying that besides Al Safa and Al Marwa (located near Ka'aba in Makkah) there is another Al Safa and Al Marwa located in Jerusalem.

Regarding Jerusalem, please can someone comment on the following post in one of the threads on this forum

QuoteAnyone has any thought on this verse?

10.025

Wa Allahu yadAAoo ila dari alssalami wayahdee man yashao ila siratin mustaqeem.
And / but Allah call to the Home of Peace (Dari al-Salami) He guide whom He pleaseth to a way that is straight.

Does "Home Of Peace" = "Dari al-Salami" = "Yerushaliyem" = "Jerusalem"?
Unqoute

I hope you all bear with me and my comments as I am new to all these discussions and usually ask about things that are commonly known to people here but are great source of learning for me.

Thanks

What is the significance of verse 2158 in the context of determining the location of masjid al haraam and ka'aba? The verse starts with a reference towards two hilltops "Al Safa" and "Al Marwa" which are located in Makkah next to Ka'aba