My personal view* on this
*(Before reading, keep in mind that the interpretation below is my own understanding of the verses and that I could have made multiple mistakes in linguistics, context, translation, deduction, etc.)

The verses 415-16 are talking about a single crime/'lewd act' that multiple people are involved in, these two verses are to be linked together so they can be properly understood.

415 "And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way/path."
416 "And the two who "yaatiyaanihaa" from among you, you shall trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful."

The word "yaatiyaanihaa" (root lif-t-y&#795 could either be referring to the lewdness, which would make the lenient punishment for the males extremely unfair, or it could be referring to the females, as in the males "approaching the female sexually", the word has been used to refer to sexual acts/approach multiple times in the quran. (2222-223)(781)(26165)(2755)

Therefore, it is not wrong to translate verses 415-16 in the following way

415 "And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way/path."
416 "And the two who are approaching her (i.e. having sex with her) from among you, you shall trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful."

A few things to note

1. The verses are referring to married females because verse 415 says "nisaaa'ikum"/"your women" and only three verses prior to that(412) god was talking about 'wives'/'spouses', the males on the other hand aren't married because the verse 416 only says "two men from among you", the female being married is the reason why the punishment is more lenient for the males as the female in question is also guilty of adultery.

2. The requirement of four witnesses to the act from amongst the people highly implies that the act was public.

3. When verse 415 says "or God makes for them a way/path", I believe that it is safe to deduce that the way out/path that god makes for them is through his guidance which would lead to their repentance and reform, therefore if the female repents and reforms she should be freed from her imprisonment, verse 416 further confirms this when it says that the way/path out of the punishment for the males is to repent and reform --> "If they repent and reform, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful.", if that is the way/path out of the punishment that god prescribed for the males then the way/path out of the punishment for the females is the same unless stated otherwise. Disagree with this deduction? If so then what else could "god makes for them a 'way/path'" mean? an unlocked window? an unlocked door? a hole in the ground/roof/walls? sleeping prison guards? The way/path of guidance is the only "way/path" that makes sense as it ultimately leads to repentance and reform, god also mentions in multiple parts of the quran that whomever truly repents and reforms should be forgiven from the crime they committed. )

4. The mention of more than one man in verse 416 --->"allathani"/"the two(males)" implies that it was an act of...ahem...umm...group copulation

In conclusion

The verses 415-16 are to be linked as they are both talking about a single crime/'act of lewdness' and prescribing punishments for those who are involved.

415-16 "And those of your women who commit lewdness, you shall bring four witnesses over them from among you; if they bear witness, then you shall restrict them in the homes until death terminates their lives, or God makes for them a way/path(through repentance and reform). And the two who are approaching her (i.e. having sex with her) from among you, you shall trouble them. If they repent and reform, then leave them alone. God is Redeemer, Merciful."

The crime/lewdness A married female engaging in public sexual relations with multiple males.
The punishment(female) Imprisonment for life or until god makes a path for her(path of guidance ---> repentance and reform).
The punishment(males) To be troubled until they repent and reform.
Reason for differing punishments The female is married therefore she is also guilty of adultery, the males are not.

Once again, this is my own personal view, it could include many errors.

God knows best,
Peace!

Peace,
There is no actual divide, it is merely a difference of opinion/interpretation, the important thing here is not letting these differences come between us and split us into groups, I think that we can do that by keeping in mind that god is the only one who knows the true interpretation of the quran (37)
The only thing we can do is discuss but at the end of the day, not everyone will agree on one thing, to me 'masjid al-haram' is being in a state of subservience to god concerning the things that he has forbidden us from, my interpretation might change in the future based on new findings, but for now, this one makes perfect sense to me.

God bless! sun

I usually bypass this by being more knowledgeable about their Hadith and Schools of Thought than they know themselves. Then I plant seeds that gradually sprout that there might be another way than the way they were indoctrinated in.

I tried to do that too at first, but I stopped trying as soon as my own mother accused me of being THE "dajjal" for having such "deceptive" beliefs. giveup

I don't like this hate I am feeling though for them. I don't know why it happens. They're so so I tolerant. Haha forget the muslim brotherhood doesn't exist. I don't know.

Hey....

ATLEAST WE ALL HAVE EACH OTHER RIGHT sun sun group

Well, can't really blame you, it is really hard not to harbor any dislike for a people that can't even tolerate the fact that we exist, I mean have you ever heard them talk about us? They talk about us as if we were some kind of a disease to their community. I don't mean all of them of course, my best friend is a sunni-muslim and he is completely fine with the fact that I reject the hadith, I just mean the ones that can't help but cringe and mock when they hear about us, those are the kind that I am not very fond of...

and yes, you are right we do have each other... group
but most importantly, we have God, and sufficient is the Lord is he not? yay

It scares me too, I haven't liked being surrounded by traditional muslims ever since I abandoned sunni-islam, some of them are very intolerant and won't even recognize me as muslim, instead I am seen as an apostate and an innovator ( brickwall

Thanks a lot for the help guys, I really appreciate it, I genuinely feel like I am on the right path by following the quran alone but sometimes the doubts keep creeping back in, letting go of old beliefs is harder than I expected but with god on my side I think I will do just fine muscle

Peace!

Salaam
How far have you actually read?
It's all over the second chapter...... hmm

Hmmm... if anything, reading the second chapter(without the shackles of sunni interpretation or the opinions of an imam) only strengthens my belief that the 'qiblah' is not physical and has nothing to do with 'salaat'. My current understanding of the quran tells me that there was a physical 'qiblah' at some point in time but it was then abandoned and that the new 'qiblah' is simply a 'way of life', basically what you can and cannot do, I believe it should be "faced" at all times, what further proves this to me is when god says that wherever we are we must face it, no mention of only doing it during 'salaat' is made, he didn't even link the 'qiblah' to the 'salaat' at all, unless I am missing something? confused

Peace brother!

I looked at the video... it was extrapolation and cuckoo science at its best.... or at its worst - either way its the kind of stuff that unicorns are made of.

Salam
Ed

Haha, I guess the leftovers from my sunni side make me extremely superstitious, rotfl
peace!

Peace everyone!

This has been bothering me for a while now, in verse 2221, the part about the believing women seems to be addressing the women directly(giving them the say in their marital matters) and not addressing the men about what to do with them, but the translations are making it seem like the men are the ones that are supposed to give the females away in marriage and choose for them the man they would marry.

(Yusuf Ali) "Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind That they may celebrate His praise."

(Sahih International) "And do not marry polytheistic women until they believe. And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might please you. And do not marry polytheistic men until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might please you. Those invite to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember."

(Pickthall) "Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember."

RED Where did all of this come from? does this not seem like an obvious fabrication or am I missing something in the context of the quran? My Arabic is not very good so I might be confusing something linguistic, but...
shouldn't the translation look something like this

2221 "And do not marry the polytheistic women until they believe, And a believing slave woman is better than a polytheist, even though she might allure you. And do not marry polytheistic men until they believe. And a believing slave is better than a polytheist, even though he might allure you. Those invite to the Fire, but Allah invites to Paradise and to forgiveness, by His permission. And He makes clear His verses to the people that perhaps they may remember."

Any help would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

Salam brothers and sisters, I have been trying to follow the quran alone for about 3 weeks now so I don't really know much yet, I have noticed that some of you are very... straightforward... so all I am asking is for you to take it easy on me -[
Being an ex-sunni, I have abandoned many of my prior beliefs and rituals one of which is facing towards a 'qiblah', more specifically the ka'baa, this used to make me really worried and uncomfortable at first but after a while those feelings stopped... that was until I came across this video
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkYksIdA3FQ

ever since then I have been even more worried than before & If this golden ratio thing is really true then it couldn't have been a coincidence, yet I couldn't find anything in the quran that hints to the 'qiblah' being physical or anything that connects it with 'salaat' from what I have read so far, as a matter of fact the quran mentions that wherever we face we find god.
If someone has any insight into this golden ratio thing I would really appreciate it, anything to just kickstart my mind, I feel like my head is about to explode from all the thinking I have been doing for the last three weeks, being a sunni was very easy for me as I just blindly followed what my imam told me to follow and never questioned anything, I now see the error of my ways and I would never blindly follow anything but viewing other peoples opinion on this matter could really be of help.

Salam.