see the following thread http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13506

Peace Samia and Serenity, that was brilliant Ayman....thank you so much for that. I have in fact, just been talking about this with my sons, and i was saying that God is specific, and that we should not decide that "oh, its just a little change, it doesnt matter" Thank your for the kind remarks. Anything good in the article is due to The God and the amazing logic of His great reading. I only deserve credits for mistakes (and I know there are several). I read the link Aymen referred to. I liked the article, however, I disagree with the following "Unlike the logically precise Arabic of the Quran, English has no easy means of distinguishing a hypothetical IF-condition from a counterfactual IF-condition". In fact, English has three kinds of "IF's"; and they are referred to as IF 1, IF2 and If 3. Examoles of these IF1 If X happens, Y will occur. (normal, high probability) IF2 If X happened, Y would follow (impossible, just a dream, as in if I lived in the seventh century). IF3 If X had happened, y would have occured (too late. Was probable in the past but not anymore, as in if I had listened to your advice, I wouldn't have been in this trouble). As for Arabic, the difference between these probabilities (conditional sentences) does not lie within the verb tense, but within the word used for "IF" There are three articles "law", "itha" and "in". "law" is used in translating IF" and IF3. "itha" and "in" are translations for IF1. Yet there is a slight difference. "in" is more conditional than "itha". "itha" indicates a logical outcome as in itha tuthakir tanja7 if you study you succeed. "in", on the other hand, indicates a different relation between both parts of the sentence, where the second part controlls the first, not the other way round. And Allah is more Knowledgeable. Thank you for your comment. I agree that some things need to be revised in the article because this was written a long time ago and my understanding has evolved since then. I agree that there are ways to denote the counterfactual in English. This doesn't have anything with "IF". It has to do with the conjugation of the verb. So without using "IF" you can say "Had I listened to your advice, I wouldn't have been in this trouble". IF is redundant and it is normally not used. I also agree that IN and ITH are different. ITH denotes "when" not "if" so there is a chronological dependency. Those two mostly mean the same thing even in English. However, there is as you said a subtle difference. I had corrected this in the article by adding another section at the end on ITH but I forgot to take the part at the beginning that says that IN and ITH are similar. At any rate, I agree with you that the article needs some revisions but the main points remain valid. Peace and all best wishes, Ayman

peace aisha, Firstly, welcome to the forum. thank you -) I like your style! Dont worry, its gets easier with time. I started out doing the above too. The following site might help www.studyquran.org I find, when you've narrowed it down to a few possible words, use www.openburhan.com or a phonetic search to find the specific one you want. Here is what I have, with some clarification to help wa (and) kalbuhum (their dog) basitun (stretching) thiraAAayhi (its two forelegs) bi (with/in) al (the) waseedi (enclosure/entrance) the root of "kalbu" is Kaf-Lam-Ba, see PRL for every occurrence of KLB/dog in 'al quran' (the reading), pay particular attention to 54 which provides evidence for a total rejection of the traditional Muslim myth about dogs.* the root of "basitun" is Ba-Siin-Tay, see PRL which allows you to read every occurrence of the specific word "basitun" in 'the reading'. the root of "thiraAAayhi" is Thal-Ra-Ayn, see PRL, the specific word also occurs in 6932. the root of "waseedi" is Waw-Sawd-Dal, see PRL for possible meanings. thanks for that wakas. I already use openburhan....its a really good site. Still takes me ages though. Like you said, it will get easier with time. *I just thought, could it be "the father of cats" was anti-dog, hence the anti-dog hadiths? Just a thought. lol...is that Abu Huraira?....does his name really mean that?...i thought that was too funny when i read it...how coincidental about the anti-dog hadith. If you wish to study 'the reading' word-for-word, I strongly recommend the following books Noble Quran word for word http//www.dar-us-salam.com/store/q11.html Dictionary of Quran http//www.amazon.com/gp/product/0963206796/ref=ord_cart_shr/103-2856847-2025461?%5Fencoding=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&v=glance&n=283155 thank you for that. Thats exactly the kind of thing i was looking for yay (sorry, just had to try that smiley out -)) peace aisha