I will agree. Get ride of religion for a peaceful planet.

This is getting ridiculous . I suspect pazuzus account or the person himself has been compromised.

Did somebody hack into pazuzus account?

Is there any proof that Arabs are descendants of Ishmael? What happened to the descendants of ishaq? According to pazuzus research (which I believe is accurate ) all prophets mentioned in quran are from the same geographical location that is south Arabia. Doesn't it make Mohammad also an Arab?

Freedom stand why do you worship? Are you making a claim that the ritual of worship has been the same for all religions?

Arman bravo my sentiments exactly

Hi jafar, thank you. I try to ask some critical questions because as you said I am trying to vett my understanding . Maybe I have missed something that I haven't thought of? Maybe my understanding has lot of holes? I do have some general understanding which are as follows

1. Islam is not a religion
2. There is no diety or anthromorphic god
3. Humans were tasked with the responsibility of protecting earth and all it's inhabitants
4. Quran promotes critical thinking and instructs to acquire knowledge.
5. Quran promotes a just social order based on equality and liberty.
6. Only a just knowledge based society can truly achieve the vision of quran.
7. There is no shariah as currently understood. A society based on critical thinking and idea of justice is more than capable of formulating there own laws.
8. Sunnatullah refers to natural laws and are un changeable. For example gravity, speed of light in different medium, boiling point of water etc.

These are some of my understanding. I may be wrong on some or if not all of the points. If any point is not clear I am happy to elaborate.

Hi everyone, thank you for your time and kind replies. In the event if there is a misunderstanding let me clear it. I am not a native speaker of Arabic and I try to shape my understanding on reading different works and opinions. I have been visiting this site for some years and it has helped me a lot in forming a valuable opinion. I joined this group and started posting hoping to get answers which I do not have. If i sound sceptical and critical that is intentional because it comes after a quite a journey correcting my understanding or misunderstanding. Whatever I have been fed was a lie. So I had to take this critical approach questioning everything and everyone. But rest assured my true intentions are noble and I am seeking all of your help as a student. I am also influenced by the morass muslims find now in. We muslims are digging deep into a pit where there is no coming back. Coming back to the topic about quran being easy to understand , lot of opinions were raised. From understanding or performing simple acts like charity, honesty etc. this may be part of quran but we don't need any scriptures to understand the importance of goodness or such qualities. We have an inbuilt moral compass which helps us to determine what is right and what would be good. A person can be good by his own efforts . Looking at the thousands of topic in this forum it's hard to agree that quran was easy to understand. If it was easy we wouldn't be here discussing and analyzing so much.

Claiming quran contains scientific miracles is anew age invention. It's transposing science on inferred verses of quran. I wonder why no one discovered anything worthwhile using quran? This only works for new age evangelist out to fool gullible people. See science says so and so , this was mentioned in quran 1400 years ago. Isn't this alone the proof that this is the word of god. Now once the gullible people are in the net, then the process of exploitation starts. Since quran is the word of god you need to do this and this, so and so etc. this process is intellectual dishonesty at best. Through such short cuts people will stop asking the hard questions. I wonder why lord of the worlds has to resort to such chutzpah to convince the masses. No I simply cannot believe that. From what I know quran is a book asking lot of questions seldom giving answers.

@reel http//old.richarddawkins.net/discussions/596593-debunking-islam-s-ludicrous-claims-to-scientific-prescience.

Hurtful obviously has a problem understanding English. Seems he or she is quick to judge. Obviously I don't have anything to learn from the likes of you. If you cannot answer without beating around the bush that means you have nothing to answer.

Hi everyone, looking at all the replies my initial suspicion in only growing. That quran is easy to understand is a misnomer. Most of the current translations only confuses people.it is anything but clear and not at all structured. The subjects are mentioned in very haphazard manner. The idea that one needs to be grounded on history and sahih hadith to understand quran is also not correct. Since the entire history seems to be made up for whatever reasons. The science of quran has been debunked several times . The belief that quran explains or contains scientific facts is only an urban legend. The idea that somehow quran will open up magically to those who seek is also suspect. If it is true then I haven't seen or heard anyone with the true divine knowledge. Which again brings us back to crux of our discussion what exactly was the purpose of quran? Seems jafar has a point. We may not be the intended audience of the quran and that may be why we all get so worked up and muddled looking for answers. Maybe because there is none..

I will agree with Arman that certain exercises helps you connect with your creator. Deep meditation techniques lead to self realization. Alternatively deep intellectual introspection can also lead to realization. If correct techniques are applied it helps the uninitiated. I have read that touching your forehead on earth ( bare earth not in some building) helps one to harmonize their vibratory patterns and give focus for thoughts and action.

You must be feeling like neo in matrix if I may draw an analogy . Know that the rut you are feeling is of your own making. You have succumbed to peer pressure and society's code of conduct. Get a degree, get a job, get married, have kids, taken loan , buy property and for the rest of your life work like an ass to pay of the loan to buy the house you never really wanted and you never own. Understand that we are here only for a fleeting movement and be happy with what you have. Take a walk in the park, be curious to explore like a child, awe in wonder of the subtle beauty that is around you, take a vacation and above all always have some me time . Time for you to ponder, introspect and investigate. Nobody should disturb your me time not even your close ones. If it's possible backpack on your own and visit countries that you have not been to. Keep your mind open to different ideas and possibilities. And finally always smile.

May I also add that the current ritual of salat is entirely an invention of the Zoroastrian Persians and it closely resembles the Zoroastrian worship of Ahura Mazda. The hadith on how salat was commanded itself shows the ridiculous nature and history of salat worship. As man of faith pointed out it's the right service with the right intend that will bring us spiritual harmony. When we take care of others and our environment ( this small piece of rock called earth and all it's inhabitants ) then we truly attain the harmony and happiness that we seek.

Of course I understand those verses shouldn't be taken literally. Maybe metaphorically it is pointing to the reality?

How will this theory sit with what is said in the quran? Verses like east or west you will see Allah's face? His dominion extends al of heaven and earth? The similitude of light upon light from a lamp without fire etc. Maybe we are not seeing what is right in front of our eyes? Maybe we are programmed to imagine Allah as a being? How can anything that is omniscient hide? Maybe the answer lies in the verse kul huwallahul ahad! Allah is infinite thus the unity itself.

Hi Arman , it's very thoughtful of you to share your views on a very debatable topic. I am sure your intention is very noble. But let me disagree on certain parts of your view. I will agree to your definition of the meaning of ritual. I see you have drawn similitude of student studying time and daily exercise as examples of ritual. I have a slight difference of opinion there. I dont think it's purely ritual by definition. Let's take some examples. An athlete indulging in various physical exercise is actually setting up a regime not a ritual. This is because the athlete do not do the same exercise over and over again. If one day he concentrate on his arms by curls or lifts, the next day he will be doing bench press for chest. Similarly a student is not studying the same text over and over again for years. Another example is a person who would like to read dedicating part of daily time to read books. This is not a ritual it's a hobby. The difference here is for the athlete, the student and the avid reader there is a defenition measurable purpose. For the athlete it could be winning a sport or building up his body, for the student it would be academic or certification, for the reader it is simply the pleasure of reading. Same thing goes for a yogi or a martial art expert they are simply practitioners of their craft and not indulging in ritual. Another aspect I want to reiterate is on the point of benefits. It should be doable and measurable. If I am a hunter I can by daily exercise of target practice improve my aim. Here I am doing the same thing like a ritual but I gain some benefits overtime through constant practice. Suppose I want to shoot the moon and I practice daily. Do you think given the same circumstances I will be able to shoot at the moon how much ever I try? This is the problem with the current rituals. Since we both agree that current rituals is aimed at pleasing god ( which technically is a carry over from Greek paganism as the Greek gods derive their power from worship of the followers and they insist on formal ritualized worship failing which will attract the wrath of the gods), we need to see whether the rituals followed in islam now is like trying to shoot the moon. By the process of some exercise 5 times a day or fasting from dawn to dusk etc bring some changes at the spiritual level? Is the contentment one experience by following certain ritual spiritual or simply a delusion? Does following such rituals bring anything positive to its practitioner and the society in large? I do have doubts over such claim. The 'Muslim' who claims solace in 'namaz' , the Christian who finds peace in attending a mass and a Hindu who claims contentment in performing a Pooja,are all of them witnessing a spiritual awakening or just deluded in man made muddle? How true are these claims? My take is yes I agree with you we need discipline and spirituality. But is the current rituals even capable of delivering on such tall promises?

I think the word energy is used in wrong connotation. Energy is simply the ability to do work. The world is not filled with energy as supposed nor things are made from energy.

I think atheist has a point when they ask who created god ? The logic is if everything needs to have a creator then god also should have a creator. If god is a being or an entity apart from us then that would make god a finite creation. Suppose if god is infinite then we all should be part of that infinity. There is no other way out. Since 'god' cannot be finite the only alternative is we are all part of that infinity. Infinity can only be understood in terms of unity. So 'god' should be unity itself .