welcome brother and may you find what you are looking for

Welcome brother. It is this critical thinking that will lead us out of the deep hole dug by Imams and religious leaders.

Peace,
You know I have been wondering that for a while too! It seems to me it is narrated by a group who refer themselves as 'We'. But then there are some parts where God speaks himself and it becomes 'I'. I find the story about Khidhr especially interesting when he talks to Moses about what he had done. Because he uses 'We' instead of himself. I dunno I guess I am rambling here. Some people say the 'I' denotes an intensive form when God is becoming personal.

As you know, there is nothing in the Qur'an which requires this, but many Muslims insist it is very important. What is your wife-to-be's stance on the issue? Have you talked those things through? And why should her parents / your parents play a role in this decision?

Peace Leyna,
Actually I have not yet discussed this issue with her. I am a bit afraid & She is rational but I don't know how she will react to something like this. I agree a 100% that it should be the man's decision when he grows up and not ours. I will talk to her once we get closer to having to make a decision.

Salaam,

yes reform, the great Christian dogma, unfortunately we are not talking about making a Christian use reason, we are talking about the basic concepts of society, and no amount of reform will alter a sovereign system, only the replacement of a sovereign system for an alloidal system would achieve and maintain true freedom. (The replacement of the Albion for the English sovereign model was established by William the Bastard (Conqueror) under the intimidation of the Roman Catholic Church - A sovereign ownership model exported worldwide today)

Much the same as the Christian Usury system we suffer today (established by the Roman Catholics by the formation of the Bank of England, by the Knights Templar - A model exported worldwide today), can not be reformed, only the replacement of this usury system with the Islamic monetary system achieved through the understanding of ownership, will establish and maintain freedom.

Much the same as the political system we suffer today, based on a feudal model, and blanketed under the lie of democracy, can not be reformed, only the establishment of a Tribal Hildage, sovereignty free, would establish and maintain freedom.

Much the same as the legal system we suffer today, based not on the law of humanity but of corporations and admiralty, making a person a commodity, can not be reformed, only the establishment of the law of the concepts and principles of true freedom and equity as expressed conceptually within the Qur'an, not Hadith, or borrowed Christian / Jewish texts laws, would establish and maintain freedom. (Our legal system was established by the Roman Catholic Church, by the Knights Templar - A model exported worldwide today)

I could continue.

http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/9/30/
If you would like to read the details of these Qur'anic models, here's the link

Peace,
I had a chance to look at your website and read some essays. Your logic makes sense. I wish there was some way all Muslims could arrange for a meetup. That way we could have a chance to talk and figure out ways to get the ball rolling on the God alone movement. God promises victory to the believers!
God Bless!

Peace,
My family (especially dad) thinks that I am being 'misled' by Satan the rebel. I have tried to explain my position by using the Quran many times but he fails to understand brickwall. He keeps telling me that the Mullahs on TV know much more than me and that we should follow them blindly. The Saudi petro funded Wahabism is reaching new heights since now they are using the media quite effectively to brainwash the masses to their view of 'Islam'. He has also warned me about not 'misleading' my two sisters. I have not given up though! God Willing we will increase in numbers and in influence and God's promise shall come to pass!
God Bless!
Said

Never mind the fact Bukhari thinks "kowthar" is a river in heaven when in Arabic it simply means sustenance. Need I mention that he (as well as the other 6 authors of hadith) are Persian? laugh

Peace,
This is what scared the hell out of me. How could any Persian have the gall to try writing down alleged sayings of Muhammad when even Arabs did not attempt such a thing. God knows best what was in Bukhari & Co. hearts but the fruits of their labor have certainly turned out to be divisive and corrupting.
God Bless!
Said

What makes you so sure of that punk?

LOL!!! The fact that you become mentally and physcially weak and frustrated by turning into an abusive monster is not my problem at all and neither does it show any greatness or macho-ness!!! lol

It takes great effort to observe patience and perseverance. That is what greatness and macho-ness means.

LOL!! And you make me laugh with you sissy talk!!! lol

Having said that, it doesn't means that I am physcially weak. I would not hesitate to pick up my marchetti and chop some heads, but all for the purpose of justice and in serving Allah (swt).

Peace,

007.172
YUSUFALI When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying) "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment "Of this we were never mindful"

007.173
YUSUFALI Or lest ye should say "Our fathers before us may have taken false gods, but we are (their) descendants after them wilt Thou then destroy us because of the deeds of men who were futile?"

007.174
YUSUFALI Thus do We explain the signs in detail; and perchance they may turn (unto Us).

007.175
YUSUFALI Relate to them the story of the man to whom We sent Our signs, but he passed them by so Satan followed him up, and he went astray.

007.176
YUSUFALI If it had been Our will, We should have elevated him with Our signs; but he inclined to the earth, and followed his own vain desires. His similitude is that of a dog if you attack him, he lolls out his tongue, or if you leave him alone, he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject Our signs; So relate the story; perchance they may reflect.

007.177
YUSUFALI Evil as an example are people who reject Our signs and wrong their own souls.

007.178
YUSUFALI Whom Allah doth guide,- he is on the right path whom He rejects from His guidance,- such are the persons who perish.

007.179
YUSUFALI Many are the Jinns and men we have made for Hell They have hearts wherewith they understand not, eyes wherewith they see not, and ears wherewith they hear not. They are like cattle,- nay more misguided for they are heedless (of warning).

It is also said

Progressive Muslims
2462 The believers are those who believe in God and His messenger,

Peace,
I am frequently wrong and in this instance may very well be but it was my understanding that mumineen and muslimeen are two different things. Mumineen are held to a higher standard than Muslimeen. So in order to be a Muslim all that is required is to believe in God, the last day and do good works. The requirements for Mumin are more stringent. Anyone else?
GodBless!
Said

Peace,
Yusuf Ali "Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge. " 65.12

The seven "Firmaments" refer to the seven distinct layers above the Earth in my current understanding. These are

1. Troposphere The air that we breath.
2. Ozone Layer Although considered a part of stratosphere, it has a different chemical and physical structure than the stratosphere.
3. Stratosphere Temperature increases with height
4. Mesosphere Temperature decreases with height
5. Thermosphere Temperature again increases with height
6. Exosphere Contains free moving particles.
   (I have not mentioned the ionosphere because it overlaps the thermosphere and the exosphere)
7. All space besides the layers already defined.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_atmosphere

One of the verses that talks about the heaven(layer) is 37.6
Yusuf Ali We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,- (37.6)
However, the Arabic is Assama Ud-Duniya (Assama Sky/Heaven, DuniyaEarth) while Yusuf Ali wrongly translates it to lower heaven. This is probably the uppermost layer that extends after the Exosphere and would contain everything in the universe. The above is a geocentric definition but fits with the Quranic information since we are the audience.

Similar number for the earth

1. 0- 40 Crust
2. 40- 400 Upper mantle
3. 400- 650 Transition region
4. 650-2700 Lower mantle
5. 2700-2890 D'' layer
6. 2890-5150 Outer core
7. 5150-6378 Inner core

http//library.thinkquest.org/28327/html/universe/solar_system/planets/earth/interior/layers_of_earth.html

The more I read the Quran the more I am in awe of our Creater, the Rahman!

Peace thegod,
I fail to understand how you are so sure that Kaaba is God's house and is sacred. Do you have any verses in the Quran that you could share?
God Bless!
Said Mirza

Peace,
Could 'makam Ibrahim' mean Ibrahim's standing? Ibrahim is respected by Jews, Christians and Muslims as an upstanding guy. I was reading 'The Arab Conspiracy' by Aidid Safar and he made some logical arguments to this effect. I would recommend reading it to get some different perspectives.
God Bless!
Said

They can regret, cry, whine, because then they will be truthful. But when it comes to testify to their crimes, their tongues will lie, their body parts will not.

Peace,
I am still having some trouble understanding what you mean. When the verse says "this day"; wouldn't that mean that their mouths are sealed this Day? How can their mouths be sealed when they are testifying yet unsealed when they are whining, crying etc. Also, won't God ask them why they worshipped idols and they will respond? (I don't remember the verse exactly). Is sealing up the mouth allegorical?
Also, found another verse that doesn't correlate with what I have read before
"The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years" 70.4. This doesn't fit well with "It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein." 50.16. Isn't God everywhere anyway? 70.4 sounds to me like He is a physical entity somewhere.
God Bless,
Said Mirza

Peace,
Could someone help me correlate 36.65 "That Day shall We set a seal on their mouths. But their hands will speak to us, and their feet bear witness, to all that they did." with other verses for instance 37.20 "They will say, "Ah! Woe to us! This is the Day of Judgment!" and 37.28 "They will say "It was ye who used to come to us from the right hand (of power and authority)!"
How could the sinners talk to each other on Judgement Day since there is a seal on their mouths? Could they be using sign language?
God Bless,
Said Mirza

Peace Wakas,
Thanks for clarifying that! In retrospect, should had used the Search function. Oh well, live and learn.
God Bless,
Said Mirza

smmirza-The similarities of the rituals that 'Muslims' are doing with what the Hindus do are very striking.

The similarities between some of the beliefs of jews/"hindus" & muslims are more striking.

Are u going to abandon the quraan whenever u come across a "similarity"?

-For instance, the circambulating around this Kaaba, presence of a Zam Zam and revering the black stone. To me these things border on paganism. Why would God want us to venerate a cuboid structure and prostrate in front of it?

Where did I talk about zam zam & a black stone, & where do I say to "prostrate in front of" a cuboid structure? A sacred stone is very much a jewish concept. And a sacred dumping stone can be found at jerusalem.

What is ur idea about hajj & becca?

ma'a salaam.

God bless all.

al'hamd li Allaah Rabb al'aalameen

I believe I misunderstood your point then. To me it seemed as if you were saying that Jews & Christians had abandoned the Kaaba. Which implies that you believe that the Kaaba is something holy/special/venerated. I will abandon all ideas that do not come from the Quran alone. Revering Kaaba in my opinion is one of them since the Quran does not talk about a Kaaba. Don't you find it strange that the Quran consistently points out that materials (idols, wealth) can avail us nothing on J-Day and that they should not be worshipped/venerated/sought; then would command us to venerate a stone cube/site?
"What is ur idea about hajj & becca?" I am still in the early stages of research on this matter and have not come to a conclusion as of yet.
God Bless!
Said Mirza

Peace,
396 The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at BakkaFull of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings
I am not sure how you make the leap from Bakka to Mecca. I have a hard time believing that the kaaba that currently stands in Mecca has anything to do with Islam. The similarities of the rituals that 'Muslims' are doing with what the Hindus do are very striking. For instance, the circambulating around this Kaaba, presence of a Zam Zam and revering the black stone. To me these things border on paganism. Why would God want us to venerate a cuboid structure and prostrate in front of it? I remember when I went to the Umrah when I was a kid and venerated this Kaaba. In my juvenile mind I was thinking that somehow by touching this building and kissing it I was getting nearer to God. I have repented from those actions and will not do anything until I know full well what the reasons are behind it.
God Bless,
Said Mirza

Salaam,

Everyone has the right to a formal education. No human being of any color is powerful enough to "give" you an education. Allah has granted you a formal education.

Everyone has the right not to be oppressed. It is not up to a certain group of humans to "grant" civil rights to another groups of humans. Allah has made sure you've been blessed enough to live comfortably with respect to certain human rights.

Allah granted you that education and those basic human rights with the hope that you would acknowledge where those blessings came from. I'm sorry, but by giving credit to white people - or any group of people - for your blessings, you are taking credit away from The Almighty.

Ma'salaama,
T.

Peace,
You bring up great points about how people are entitled to basic rights. I could not agree more. I thank God for all that he has given me and ultimately everything is from Him since he created everything. However, if person A gives some money to person B. Person A did this good out of free will so he deserves some credit. Even though person A got money through God's blessing, he still had the choice to give it to person B or keep it for himself. Your line of thinking, negates free will since God is controlling men's actions behind the scenes which is not the case. I am grateful to God and also to the people I have come into contact with from whom I have learned a great deal.
God Bless,
Said Mirza

Peace neighbor!
I live in Milwaukee,Wisconsin. This is as far north as I am willing to go! D I know dotty lives in Madison. We should definitely meet up sometime. About the lonely part, believe me sister I know how you feel. I come from a traditional Sunni family and my parents live in Kuwait. i used to go to the local mosque when I first moved here 2 years ago but got sick of listening to the Imaam lecturing us from man made books (Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim). It is tough living alone and not having people around you who share your God Alone mindset. However, the Quran is the truth and God grants me patience. Remember, this world is just amusement and a test. God tests His servants to see who believes in Him for real. So hang in there and keep reading the Quran and remember God. There is light at the end of the tunnel. I almost forgot, welcome to FM forum. You will find a wealth of information here and open-minded Muslims willing to help you out and support you.
God Bless!
Said Mirza

Peace all,
This thread is blatant racism and does not befit the spirit of Free Minds. I for one think the 'white people' have done much good in this world. I live in the USA and even though decadence is prevalent here; I find myself impressed with the morals and attitudes of 'white people'. They have given me an education and have made sure that I have equal rights as them.
The Quran does not allow any distinction between color and for us to to single out 'white people' goes against our very belief. I for one do not suscribe to blaming any race or creed for destroying humanity on a large scale. Please leave judgement upto God and use this time to better the human race by preaching God's message and helping humanity.
God Bless,
Said