Hizbullah,

The 3rd / 4th Century CE was the era of corruption of the first edition of the Book of ALLAH. I reject the legend that it was circulated by Ptolemy of Egypt in the 2nd century BCE on the basis of zero evidence.
The above verse proofs that the last Prophet came at the time when the hidings and obliteration of the Book were being carried out and at the time when the Quran was first sent down.
If Prophet Muhammad?s ministry was in the 7th Century CE, 300 years after Nicea, what is the point of warning when the Book had already been distorted! Do you think is going to be easy.

That is totally incorrect. Torah was textually corrupted even before the arrival of Jesus(P) let alone Muhammad(P). How do we know that? Read Jeremiah 88

?How can you say, ?We are wise, and the law (Torah) of the LORD is with us??
But behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie.

Here Jeremiah is admitting that scribes had perverted the truth of the law (Torah) into a lie.

Secondly, Deut 34 which is a last book of Torah (supposedly authored by Moses) talks about his funeral, is now widely accepted by both Jewish and Christian scholars as a fabrication and interpolation.

Deuteronomy 345
5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD, 6 and he buried him in the valley in the land of Moab opposite Beth-peor; but no man knows the place of his burial to this day.
7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died; his eye was not dim, nor his natural force abated.
8 And the people of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab thirty days; then the days of weeping and mourning for Moses were ended.

Comments
Some say that this was written by Joshua (Rabbi Abraham Ben Meir Ibn Ezra)

It is indeed not authored by Moshe. Perhaps either Joshua or one of his followers. (Torah- The Modern Commentary by Rabbi Gunther Plaut).

Thirdly, the translation of Old Testament from Hebrew to Greek (Septuagint LXX) has lots of mistakes in it (which existed before Prophet Muhammad (P)) as compared to Masoretic Text.

So your ?The 3rd / 4th Century CE was the era of corruption of the first edition of the Book of ALLAH? theory goes out of the window.

Christianity was established officially in 4th Century CE by Constantine. It is plausible his father Constantius I, had plan of its doctrine and some scriptures were wrote prior to the Creed of Nicea.
The ANTIQUITY of the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament).
Constantine needed some religious literature that was old, which was NOT Greek, and which could be used as a platform. It had to have an antiquity comparable to the Greek and Egyptian histories. Somehow, he came across the Hebrew Bible - possibly in the library of Caesarea, and possibly translated by Origen. .

?Greco-Romans ?not only had knowledge of Book of Moses but also the entire Old Testament. They had Septuagint (LXX) is their possession which is a Greek translation of Hebrew Bible.

Just try to understand the fallacy in your statement. Let?s say for the sake of argument I agree with you. If they have NO knowledge of the book, then how can they corrupt it? How can you corrupt something of which you don?t possess no knowledge of? Secondly, how did you reach the conclusion that the verse 278 is talking about Book of Moses? If so then how come New Testament quotes Torah (Book of Moses) 100 TIMES. How can they quote Torah if they don?t have any knowledge about it? That doesn?t make any sense.

Now let?s talk about who corrupted the scriptures in 275-278

275 Do you then hope that they(the Jews)would believe in you, and a party from among them(the Jews) indeed used to hear the Word of Allah, then altered(yuarrifnahu) it after they(the Jews) had understood it, and they(The Jews) know

(So it is established here beyond the show of the doubt that Jews did corrupt the scriptures)

276 And when they (The Jews) meet those who believe they say We (The Jews) believe, and when they (The Jews) are alone one with another they say Do you talk to them (The Jews) of what Allah has disclosed to you that they (The Jews) may contend with you by this before your Lord? Do you not then understand?

277 Do they not know that Allah knows what they keep secret and what they make known?

278 Among them are gentiles who do not know the scripture, except through hearsay, then assume that they know it.

(Gentiles do not know the scripture. They except through heresay.)

279 Therefore, woe to those (The Jews) who distort the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is what GOD has revealed," seeking a cheap material gain. Woe to them for such distortion, and woe to them for their illicit gains.

?Woe to those!? Who is this referring to? This is NOT referring to the Gentiles, because they had no knowledge of the book hence they cannot corrupt it. But rather it?s referring to the people who altered / wrote / added / edited book of Allah i.e The Jews. How do we know this? Go back to 275 it clearly states that the Jews distorted (yuarrifnahu) the scripture.

So Mr Tarek, whose words do you trust, our CREATOR or Prof. Bart Ehrman's?

I agree with Quran where religious guidance is concerned. I also agree with Prof. Bart Ehrman where his expertise in the field are concerned. They are not in contradiction. What I don?t agree with is your interpretation imposed on the text. One that?s not consistent with the biblical history, one that is not consistent with historical context within the Quran.

Mr. Hizbullah I am staying with somebody and my access to computer is very limited. I?ll get back to the Prophet Muhammad?s lineage and the proof of his existence in 7th century using non Islamic sources in a week or so.

I do appreciate your time and your true efforts.

Peace.

Peace Hizbullah-

I read your articles and i have few comments. Hizbullah's comments is Red

High possibility that Prophet Muhammad, was born before the 4th Century of the Common Era and the Holy Quran was sent down in the 4th Century in order to counter the distortion of the 1st Book of ALLAH, which comprises of the Torah and Injeel by the Roman Christians as confirmed by the Quranic verse below

Not really. There is evidence that Muhammad (P) existing during the 7th Century.
http//www.islamic-awareness.org/History/Islam/Inscriptions/earlysaw.html
Q) Where was Prophet Muhammad (P) located?
Q) Any historical / archeological evidence?
Q) If he was supposedly existed before 4th Century, why is it that NOBODY ever mentioned him?

Holy Quran 0279 -So woe to those who write the "Book" with their own hands, then say, "This is from ALLAH ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
Let?s look at the verse which is one of the Quranic evidence, proving that the Quran was sent down during Nicaea. I will segregate the verse into A & B
A. So woe to those who write the "Book" with their own hands, then say, "This is from ALLAH," in order to exchange it for a small price.
Look at the imperfect verb , shows that the sentence in Present Tense. It proofs that the Quran was sent down during the time when a Book was written. This can only be during the Creed of Nicaea in 325, when the Romans under Constantine created the Bible. This was the time when the distortion of the Book of ALLAH started.

If you read it in the context it's talking about Jews corrupting the scriptures.

Please read 270-79.

275 Do you expect that they will believe you when a party of them hear the Word of ALLAH, then alter (yuarrifnahu) it after they have understood it, and they well know the consequences thereof.
278 Among them are gentiles who do not know the scripture, except through hearsay, then assume that they know it.

There were no gentiles in Council if Nicea.

I can be wrong but are you emphasizing that Muhammad (P) was near NIcea?

From The Bible's Ungodly Origins by Robert L. Johnson?.
Emperor Constantine, who was Roman Emperor from 306 CE until his death in 337 CE, used what motivates many to action - MONEY! He offered the various Church leaders MONEY to agree upon a single canon that would be used by all Christians as the word of God. The Church leaders gathered together at the Council of Nicaea and voted the "word of god" into existence. Constantine ordered and financed 50 parchment copies of the new "holy scriptures." It seems with the financial element added to the picture, the Church fathers were able to overcome their differences and finally agree which "holy" books would stay and which would go.

There is no historical proof of Constantine paying churches to agree upon one canon. What is the author's source if this information?
The First Council of Nicea purpose was settlement of the Christological issue of the nature of the Son of God and his relationship to God the Father(addressing Ariunism heresy),the construction of the first part of the Creed of Nicaea, establishing uniform observance of the date of Easter, and promulgation of early canon law.
And definitely, nobody was writing books in Council of Nicea.

Holy Quran 0568 - Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are on nothing until you uphold the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord."
The command of ALLAH thru HIS prophet is the above verse. This shows explicitly that the Book of ALLAH was intact. Nobody in their right mind, especially a prophet, would want to teach things that are already distorted! The Prophet warned the People of the Book to uphold the Torah and Gospel and the Quran for their own salvation. Unfortunately, they did not as per the Holy Quran...
Holy Quran 0566 -And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet, there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do.

Agreed.

B. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
Again, look at the perfect verb and imperfect verb , shows that the sentence in Past Tense and Present Tense respectively.

Exactly. Corruption has been taking place in Past and Present. Few example from the top of my head
Deut 34 (Death of Moses) Torah (Pentateuch) is supposedly written by Moses except for Deut 34 which describes Moses's funeral.
Translation of Hebrew Bible into Greek (Septuagint).
1 John57, Mark chapter 16 longer Ending, Jesus and the Adulteress story, the whole passion and resurrection even.
Deuterocanonical books removed by Protestant Christians

Further, an abstract from The Bible's Ungodly Origins by Robert L. Johnson?.
"Therefore, one can easily argue that the first Christian Bible was commissioned, paid for, inspected and approved by a pagan emperor for church use."

Not historically true. This is religious conspiracy theory. Internet scholarship. I would highly recommend Prof. Bart Ehrman's lectures From Jesus to Constantine on early Christian history.

So, it had been prophesied by the Almighty that the Bible will be distorted. Another most significant proof that the Holy Quran was sent down in the 4th Century is the story about the Sleepers of the Cave. This Glorious Quranic verse is a prophecy and a Quranic evidence.
AQ 1822 - They will say there were three, the fourth of them being their dog; and they will say there were five, the sixth of them being their dog - guessing at the unseen; and they will say there were seven, and the eighth of them was their dog. Say, , "My Lord is most knowing of their number. None knows them except a few. So do not argue about them except with an obvious argument and do not inquire about them among from anyone."
Study the tenses carefully and you will find that the sentence is in Future/Present Tense. None knows them except a few. Historical evidence from the earliest Christian version of this story comes from the Syrian bishop, Jacob of Sarugh (c. 450-521), in the 6th-century.
Another significant Quranic proof ?
AQ 1825 - And they remained in their cave for three hundred years and exceeded by nine
Historical evidence shows that the persecution of the so called Christians in the Roman Empire occurred over a period of about three centuries until the 313 Edict of Milan issued by Emperors Constantine and Licinius. This was the beginning of the era of official Christianity. A new religion was born. The Sleepers of the Cave slept in the year 13 and woke up 300 years later, in the year 313. 313 CE was the period where the persecutions to the believers stop. ALLAH THE EXALTED extended the lives of the Sleepers to another 9 years. They died in year 322. The 1st Nicene Creed was in the year 325.

Questions

1. How do you know Quran was written in the 4th Century?
2. How did the ARABS get their hands on the Quran?
3. Who started this conspiracy?
4. When was this conspiracy started?
5. Whose graves are in Al-Masjid an-Nibali, Medina, Saudi Arabia?
6. Who were Abu Bakr, Omar, Usman and Ali? Were they legend?
7. If Muhammad (P) existed during 4th Century, don't you think his tomb would have been visited by Muslims?

Peace.

Peace-

Does Quran presume that the Previous Revelation was available during Muhammad?s time?

It seems like the purpose of Quran is to verify / confirm / attest the previous scriptures and not to expose corruption.

"And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, CONFIRMING THE TORAH THAT CAME BEFORE HIM We sent him the Gospel therein IS guidance and light, AND CONFIRMATION OF THE TORAH THAT HAD COME BEFORE HIM a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel." 546-47

This is not the only time where Jesus is said to have confirmed the Torah

"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, THE TORAH and the Gospel, And (appoint him) as a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message) 'I have come to you,with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I bring the dead into life, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe; (I have come to you), TO ATTEST THE TORAH WHICH WAS BEFORE ME. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me. 348-50

The Quran continues

"And when there cometh unto them a scripture from Allah, confirming that IN THEIR POSSESSION ..." 289

So, the scripture was with them. What scripture?

The Quran chastens Jews and Christians

"The Jews say, 'The Christians are not (founded) upon anything.' And the Christians say, 'The Jews are not (founded) upon anything.' And yet they READ the Book (Kitab)." S. 2113

What book is Allah talking about during Muhammad (P) time?

How can anybody corrupt Allah's words?

"??the words of God are UNCHANGEABLE" 1064
"The word of your Lord is complete, in truth and justice. NOTHING SHALL ABROGATE HIS WORDS." 6115

"We did indeed aforetime give the Book to Moses be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee) and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel. And We appointed, from among them, leaders, giving guidance under Our command, so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our Signs (Ayat- Verses). Verily thy Lord will judge between them on the Day of Judgment, in the matters wherein they differ (among themselves) S. 3223-25

"This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than God; but it is a verification of that WHICH IS BETWEEN HIS (ITS) HANDS, and the explanation OF THE BOOK, wherein there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds." S. 1037

"And BEFORE THIS was the Book of Moses as a guide and a mercy and THIS BOOK is a verification (of it) in the Arabic tongue to warn those who transgress and as glad tidings to the righteous." S. 4612

"Behold, We turned towards you a company of Jinns listening to the Qur'an ... When the (reading) was finished they returned to their people as warners. They said, ?O our people! we have heard a Book REVEALED AFTER MOSES attesting to (the truth of) that WHICH IS BETWEEN HIS (ITS) HANDS - guiding to the truth and to a straight path.?" S. 4629-30

Finally

"The (Qur'an) is indeed a message for you (Muhammad) and your people, (all of) you shall be brought to account, and ASK those of our apostles whom we sent before thee, 'Did We appoint any deities other than the Most Merciful whom they should worship? 4323-25

Since all the apostles had died, the only way for anyone to ask them anything is by consulting their writings. Yet, it would be impossible to know with certainty what their message was if these writings had been corrupted!

This is interesting

550 And let the People of the Gospel judge by what God has revealed in it. If any fail to judge by what God has revealed, they are licentious."

Q) If the gospel in time of Muhammad (P) was corrupted, how can they judge by it? And what was that Gospel?

571"Say, O People of the Book! You are not (founded) on anything UNTIL you PERFORM the TORAH and the GOSPEL, and what was revealed to you from your Lord."

Q) How can they perform Torah and the gospel if they are corrupted? And why would Allah keep appealing to the corrupted text?

393-94"All food was lawful to the children of Israel except what Israel made unlawful for itself before the Torah was revealed. Say, `BRING the TORAH and READ it, if you are men of truth.' If any, after this, invent a lie and attribute it to God, they are indeed transgressors."

Q) Again, From where would you bring the torah and read it if the torah is corrupted?

Sura 1037

"This Quran is not such as can be produced by other than God; but it is a verification of that (the Torah and Gospel) which IS between his (its) hands, and the explanation of the Book, WHEREIN THERE IS NO DOUBT, from the Lord of the worlds."

BETWEEN HIS HANDS means that the scriptures were available during Muhammad (P) time. And Quran verified it.

Thanks