Peace tauhid101 ,

Your idea is fine. However, I consider that one reaches a condition of Islam when they fulfill the inner circles of the diagram. As The Book goes you cannot go to Heaven without both Faith and Actions, although they are usually intertwined. As Jesus seems to have wanted to proclaim that you must express your Faith through your Actions. They are linked because if you truly believe but act with evil deeds then you could question whether this person really has Faith, because they are certainly not guided nor have Knowledge and Wisdom. They have not grasped the Lore, or the core Message of Islam.

God bless you

Peace be within you, bro Man of Faith

Sorry but I dare not write "my idea" as you put it. The core Message from the Lord is the Truth, the Reality of His Attributes and His creations. To be near the Lord in real time is not just a thought but it is a reality. I dare not write in your thread, or anywhere for that matter, about His Verses/Message which I have no knowledge of their Truth. The Truth comes from the Lord only. I am always aware of His Presence and His Attributes everywhere that I am, even in this forum.

Peace.
tauhid101

Chapter 33 Lore check

331 O prophet, you shall be (1) aware of God, and do not obey the rejecters and the hypocrites. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
332 And follow what is being (3) inspired to you by your Lord. God is fully aware of all that you do.
333 And put your (1) trust in God. God suffices as an advocate.

---

Time for a reminder with the circular diagram I composed a while ago

| http//farm6.staticflickr.com/5546/10816793444_18c10caea7.jpg
| What my bold numbers within parenthesis mean.

• Belief in God - Nearness and Guidance

• Righteousness - Peace and Prosperity

• Belief in Realm - Knowledge and Wisdom

And as you might have read before in this thread if you cared to follow it; Islam can be narrowed down to only to two parts Faith and Actions. And everything together forms the condition which we call Islam.

---

336 The prophet is closer to the believers than themselves, and his wives are mothers to them. And the decree of God to the believers and the emigrants is that before they help their relatives, they have taken care of their own families first. Such has been decreed in the Lore.
337 And when We took from the prophets their covenant. And from you, and from Noah, and Abraham, and Moses, and Jesus, son of Mary; We took from them a solemn covenant.

3326 And He also brought down those who helped support them from among the people of the Lore from their secure positions, and He threw terror into their hearts. Some of them you killed, and some you took captive.

3342 (1) And glorify Him morning and evening.
3343 He is the One who makes contact with you, along with His angels, to bring you out of darkness and into the light. And He is ever Merciful towards the believers.

Red Pious Believers who have gotten far on the Nearness and Guidance will feel the stronger bond with God and His allies when he/she performs his/her Communion. You have perhaps seen while reading The Book that when the Prophets of old walked aside and performed a Communion and talked to God about something then God often changed the timeline.

3345 O prophet, We have sent you as a witness, and a bearer of good news, and a warner.

Helpful tip for everyone including myself. I should to a bigger extent ignore the ignorant people

3348 And do not obey the rejecters and the hypocrites, and ignore their insults, and (1) put your trust in God; for God suffices as an advocate.

God bless you

Peace be within you, Man of Faith

I hope you don't mind me posting in your personal thread here ). Just wanted to show you something within your diagram; shouldn't the outer ring (Islam) be among the portion (Actions), because to submit, submission, submissive, and surrender are commands from the Lord, and a command from the Lord has to be fulfilled, which is during our communion with the Lord? And the outer ring should be the Faith in God only, the bond which is yet to be established by the Lord within us, so that we are faithful only to the Lord in this world, and hopefully placed among the righteous in the Hereafter? )

Peace be within you, bro Man of Faith pr
tauhid101

Salam, Pak cik tauhid 101, pejabat dari negeri Jiran ;D.Saya masih percaya adanya Tuhan, tapi mempertanyakan keabsahan Quran sebagai firman Dia.Saya akan terus mencari apa sistem yg diwariskan Tuhan kepada kita (entah Islam, Yahudi, Hindu dll).

Salam kembali, mas Earthdom

Iya..masih dalam masa Pejabat sekarang ini ;D. Pentingnya kepercayaan terhadap kewujudanNya tidak terus hilang kerna banyak pusing
Mungkin juga ada wujudnya sistem saintifik mahu pun sistem lain, tapi dari pengalaman yang sudah saya lalui lebih dari 20tahun membaca, belajar dan personal research, bagi saya sistem itu satu sahaja yang dinamakanNya Jalan Yang Lurus, seperti termaktub disurah pertama, iaitu antara diri sendiri dengan Tuhan sahaja. Apa yang sudah saya fahami, label2 tiga ugama yang wujud dari kitab2Nya hanya nama yang diberikan oleh golongan bani Israel yang berpecah belah.

I will keep pray to God, whathever He is Yang Maha Satu or not.I still became agnostic for a while.
I study Quran intensively for some month, indeed I found some what I to be considered as "fallacy".
It's hard to leave Islam even for a while, because it's my forefather's religion of course and I get dogmatic from it since born.

Yes its true that it is very hard to leave the religion which we were born into. It took me nearly 20 years not just to reject Islam, but also Christianity and Judaism. I don't belong to any sect, nor label myself in any way. I'm just one of the Lord's slaves, submitting to Him alone and humbly submissive to His Will, His faithful slave. That is what I will tell people whenever they asked me, hanya seorang hamba Tuhan. I was born into the religion Islam without the knowledge of His Truth.

Yes the name Al-Quran itself does not reflect the contents and purpose of the whole Book, it should had been named Al-Kitab Al-Haqq, the Book of Truth. The main purpose is to confirm and witnessed the previous two Books only. It is not to confirm and witnessed the sayings of men, the hadiths. No matter how much corruptions and distortions had been made to the Gospel, the Torah and the Book of Truth, they are still the Books from the Lord. The Torah does not belong to Moses and the Jews, the Gospel does not belong to Jesus and the Romans and the Greeks, and the Book of Truth does not belong to prophet Ahmad and the Arabs only. The Lord and all His Books are for all mankind because He is the Creator, the Sovereign Lord of all mankind.

Apa bapak ni Kristen?

Kok.. baru satu ayat dari Gospel dan omongan dalam bahasa Inggeris sudah dianggap Kristen? ;D Saya hanya seorang hamba Tuhan Yg Maha Pengasih dan Maha Penyayang. Semoga mas Earthdom kuatkan semangat perjuangan mencari Kebenaran yang sebenar-benarnya, ya. The Truth and nothing but the Truth only.

Peace and may the Lord blesses you with enlightenment. pr
tauhid101

Shalom aleyhim

After get more deeper discussion about tafseer Quran, play Arabic words with Indonesian and Malaysian Quranites, it seems I start to questioning Quran itself.Many fallacies, allegorical phrases which I see as a nonsense and it's imposibble if this is God's words.

Currently I'm in agnostic state like Yuliana and I will post some refutation against Quran in this forum.

If members in here capable against all my refutation and give proper answers, I will back to so called Islam maybe.

Peace be within you, mas Earthdom

Waduuh, mas Earthdom, o ;D banyak-banyak bersabar dan komitmen, dong.. dalam pencarian Kebenaran yang sebenar-benarnya daripada Yang Maha Esa sahaja. Lelaki yang dilantik sebagai Nabi juga menerima ajaranNya dalam masa yang panjang. P

Sincerity to your own-self, not just to the Lord, is one of the criteria on that Straight Path. It is important that you acknowledge to yourself that you are still lacking the knowledge of His Truth. But that acknowledgement is to the Lord alone, not in a forum. Be confidence that you are being guided whenever you questions the Lord about the religion Islam and the Quran. Always ask for His protection, strength in patience and the wisdom He promises, we truly needed them, if and when you see, acknowledge and accept His Truth alone.

Think and reflect on the keyword, "He promises". He promises many things to all mankind whom He created, not just for those who follow the religion Islam. But what is your promise or covenant in return to Him alone? All of us, mankind, owed the Sovereign Lord, big time.

You have said that the One True God and your salvation is more important to you. Then allow me to ask you this question, who among all the God aloners, the articles and books written by men, the youtubes, and the discussions, debates and arguments in forums; who do you think can truly give you the true guidance, at the same time give you the light of Truth, and the living proof within your self? Who holds the Power and the Authority to all knowledge of the world and the Hereafter?

Allow me to add to your inquisitive mind a few more questions regarding the Lord and the Book of Truth. Who named the final book as Al-Quran/ the Reading, was it the Lord, or those men after the death of the last prophet? Was it the Lord who taught the last prophet to recite the book harmoniously in Arabic only without understanding what's in it, or was it those men who created the religion Islam? Was the Lord and His final Book all about the religion Islam? Was not the first purpose of the final Book, was to be a witness and confirmed the previous two Books only? Was the Lord and the final Book about reforming a religion created by men, or was it about reforming your own self because you are His creation? The direction of our life journey is, "we came from Him and to Him we will return, dust to dust and ashes to ashes". Do you truthfully know who you are from His knowledge of Truth?

This is one of the Gospel from the Lord which He taught the prophet Isa/Imanu-el, written down by Thomas, from the Nag Hammadi finds, think and reflect

18 The disciples said to Imanu-el/Jesus, "Tell us how our end will be." Imanu-el/Jesus said, "Have you discovered, then, the beginning, that you look for the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed is he who will take his place in the beginning; he will know the end and will not experience death."

Does the Lord needed a religion, or any one else or any associate, to guide you alone on that Straight Path? I cannot make you or any one else, see and believe what I have written because most of His teachings are of the unseen and the Hereafter. His teachings and knowledge of Truth are about our self-development - our awareness of Him, the God-conscious, the mind; our sincerity, patience, our trust and faith in Him only, the heart. He alone holds that Power and Authority to purify and to establish (the zakat and the salat), because He is the Creator of all that can be seen and the unseen.

Peace and may the Lord blesses you with enlightenment. pr
tauhid101

Peace and blessings from the Lord be within you,

welcome to the forum, Sweetflower87.

It is seldom for a newcomer intro to this forum by including their understanding of the words of the Lord from the previous Books and connect them to the words of the Lord in the final Book, the Book of Truth (the Quran). Very enlightening indeed.

I hope we could further discuss about the Opening/the seven pairs, because I believe this was mentioned in the Book of Revelation 5 The Opening of the Scroll, instead of 6 The Seven Seals. The Scroll in the Revelation is mentioned as the Mother of the Books besides His Throne in the final Book, which are the knowledge of all Truth, His living Words, the Spirit of Truth.

And the Mother of the Books is very much related to the Gospel of the Lord, in the creation of Imanu-el/Jesus/Isa which is the Faith in God. It is also about the true resurrection of mankind in this world with the Spirit of Truth.

Peace and blessings from the Lord be within you.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, pak Earthdom

Maaf banyak-banyak, pak, for late reply; sibuk kerja harian di pejabat dan kerja personal ;D

Regarding 37..none know its interpretation except Allah.
Allah alone is my Teacher for the Truth; like the verse said, only He knows the interpretation. I acknowledge and accepted Him as the Ever-Living God, watching over us all the time, even now in this forum; and at the same moment He is also watching over His creations at the edge of the universe, sustaining them, He is the All-Mighty, the All-Knower, the Most Merciful. Allah alone is my Sovereign, the Power and the Authority. Ask, and He is nearer to us than our veins. How do you view or perceive Him, as in 2255?

I have been reading and studying all His Books for more than 20years, and still doing them today. Only last year I started learning the classical Hebrew.

The Gospel written by Thomas could be read at this link http//www.thenazareneway.com/thomasgospel.htm

Saya dari Borneo Utara, pak Earthdom. Masa dulu banyak nonton filem Indonesia, ndak tau pula ada logat betawi ;D
Dari daerah mana logat betawi tu, pak Earthdom?

Peace be within you
tauhid101

Peace be within you, pak Earthdom

"I read and study His Books, I always put myself on His perspectives, not mine or the hadiths."

Peace tauhid 101.Can you explain the meaning of that red word??

When I read, study and reflect on His verses, I always ask Him, in my mind and heart, what was actually He wanted from all mankind. His Message is not just in the final Book but also within the Torah and the Gospel. And the reality which we see happening now, is because His Message had been divided into the three religions, three doctrines, three traditions, which our generations inherited.

Did God wanted this from all mankind? Did God wanted divisions among the mankind? What will be your answer when you observe from behind His Message, His perspective, and not from the perspectives of the three divided religions and their doctrines? Can you see the Truth which God wanted mankind to see and follow? It is not science and not philosophy, it is only your mind and your heart, which He created within us, the unseen. And His Message is His guidance so that we see the Truth of what He wanted from mankind.

Since you ask me, this is the way that I learned from experience, reading and studying all His Books, the Book of Truth (the Quran), the Gospel written by John and Thomas and the Torah (the old Testament) and no other books or articles.

Peace be within you.
tauhid101

(PS kalau pak Earthdom lagi senang berdiskusi dalam bahasa, iya, PM aje, pak. Mau keluar dulu cari makan, lapar, belum bfast n lunch. udah jam 3 o)

Peace be within you, bro Al-Azhar

When i read 5727 like this then 582 makes sense because there were still those amongst the followers of Jesus who were true believers and had not changed anything, and so god tells the believers that you can find support amongst some of the Nazarene, especially the monks and priests, for some were still holding true to what sent down.

If i look at all the other translations which single out monkery as not being ordained to the people, then why would god specifically mention monks in 582??

From my understanding, the root cause for the different word usage with a same meaning/ command/ purpose from God, came from the three divided religions from His three Books which had been established by men centuries ago. And this leads to the different opinions and leads to changes made to His Message, like 582 and 5727, according to their respective doctrines. But if you read 568, God said that we have no ground to stand upon if we don't stand behind all His Books.

This verse leads me to questions, my interaction with Allah during my studies and research for the Truth; did God wanted His Books to be divided into the three religions, did He commanded the respective Prophets to create Judaism from His Torah, Christianity from His Gospel and Islam from the Quran?

Please read and reflect on the verse 2125 and 2187.
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=125
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=2&verse=187

Do they have any relation to the previous two verses, especially about monasticism, i'tikaaf, seclusion and devotion? Ponder on the different time zones which Allah mentioned them, that is during Abraham, Eesa and the last Prophet. There is a specific purpose for monasticism, i'tikaaf, seclusion and devotion, and that is for purifications.

So, are there differences for the word monk according to Allah?

(and monks waru'banan Ra-ha-Ba to fear/ dread/ terrify, terror, awe, frightened, to become fatigued/ tired/ weary or jaded. rahibun (pl. ruhban) - monk, monasticism, monkery. tarahhab = he became a rahib , fearing god, or feared god with reverence or awe or he devoted himself to religious services or exercises. )
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

Am I a monk if I practice i'tikaaf in my bedroom, without distractions, and Allah alone as the Teacher and the Guide; no radio, no tv, no music, no internet, reading the whole Book over and over, reflecting on His verses, to purify my mind from the sayings of men with His Truth? Am I a muslim whenever I seclude myself in my bedroom and devote myself to Allah alone for the Truth? Reading the Book in a language that I can understand easily. I practice this monkery after dinner in the evening and during the early hours of the morning before I go to work. I reflected on His verses, the one that lingers in my mind, during coffee break, during lunch time, while driving to and from the office.

Should I call myself a monk? Am I a Christian? What matters to me is God's command, and that I'm doing the righteous thing towards Him alone, His acceptance of me whenever I fulfilled His commands.

Purifications of the mind and heart is always between a person and Allah alone.

Peace be within you.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, bro Mazhar

Salam,

I am talking what Allah has said in simple and straight words in the Book. You are relying on your own philosophy. The Book is the guidance and it informs its audience about facts relating to his surroundings. Sending of Iron by Him to the Earth is just one such such fact.

When I said about common sense and His guidance, previously, I meant about using our reasoning, our own mind in connecting the relevant verses from the Book itself.

When Allah create something, He only said, "Be" and it is, He creates with His Word and His Will alone. I rearranged the verse, not based on my philosophy, but based on the knowledge of the Truth from His Books alone.

The Quran is His guidance book to follow, a guide about the Straight Path He prescribed and a guide about His previous Books. The Books and the Straight Path is His guidance for all mankind, a guidance to the Mother/ Source of His Book, the Al-Kitab, besides His Throne. The Mother/ Source of His Book is His words, His commands, His living words, because Allah is the Ever-Living God and He creates with His Word and Will alone.

His Messengers, who will carry down His word/message/command from the Mother/ Source of His Book is the Holy Spirit or the spirit of Truth. The Holy Spirit or the spirit of Truth is the living word/message/command send down from besides His Throne by His permission alone, and guarded by the angels when it descended upon the heart of those whom He wills. The verse about Gabriel descended upon the heart of the Prophet had been changed. Allah sent down the Holy Spirit, His Message, upon the Prophet's heart and revealed the Truth. The faith/ iman within our heart is the bond between mankind and Allah that is stronger than iron. Be and it is, His word and His will, no iron involved.

The book which He promised to guard and will never change is the Mother/ Source of His Book, besides His Throne. But a book written, printed and digitized by men is certain to have discrepancies, biased towards a man-made doctrine. And I'm certain that Allah already knows this about the Quran. Let me show you another verse from the Quran which was changed by men, and very much related to the verse in discussion regarding "sent down";

396 He created you from a single soul. Then He made from it, its mate. And He sent down for you eight kinds of the cattle. He creates you in the wombs of your mothers, creation after creation, in three darkness. That is Allah your Lord, for Him is the Dominion. There is no god except Him. Then how are you turning away?

Whether it is translated into English or any other languages, this sentence, "And He sent down for you eight kinds of cattle." Does this mean that Allah sent down eight kinds of holy cattle as well, during our creation in the wombs?

Peace be within you.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, bro Mazhar

Salam

This understanding is based upon your thoughts and by not accepting the declarative statement of Allah the Exalted. Pl listen Him

Excuse me..who post and relate the verse 5725 to the verses 3410-11 earlier?

And We have descended the Iron. Sturdy strong strength is its built-in characteristic feature; and profitableness for the people;

Earlier its another feature and use was disclosed

And it was made known for him that We have made the Iron pliable;
informing him "You make fully flexible armor coats; and measure proportionately in links of armor;

I do hope you read all my earlier explanations. It was common sense and His guidance, bro Mazhar that Allah did not send down the iron, but He send down the revelations of the Truth, the Book, so that He will guide mankind and establish the faith/ iman with His Truth within ourselves, a bond/ binding stronger than iron.

Peace be within you.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, bro Mazhar

Incorrect approach in consulting the Lexicons will always yield an erroneous result. Each word of Arabic is distinct signifying singular meanings. Individual word's meanings are not derived by consulting all the meanings of few other words made from the same Root.

Thanks for the reminder, bro Mazhar. But in this case the sayings of men had distorted the verse when they implied and inserted their understanding that iron was send down from besides Allah to create the chain-mail for war (and many benefits for mankind).

Was it the sayings of men who relate the verse 5725 to the verse 3410-11 or is that from yourself? Yet in the verse 5725 there is no mention about chain-mail or about war. Referring to the other verses (3410-11) as implied does not help us to understand the Truth, especially if the verses referred to had no relationship whatsoever.

In the Book, Allah commanded us to always use our reasoning, our intellect which He bestowed upon mankind. I am certain that you are much much better than Abu Hurairah et al. Iron existed in the earth from the day He created the earth and the universe. And today He bestowed upon mankind the knowledge of making the best of steel and the lightest and hardest titanium, as an example. Did Allah send down magical iron from besides Him on the Throne? This is the kind of question I will ask myself when a verse does not make sense to me.

This is the verse, word for word translation, Arabic to English from corpus quran

5725 Certainly We sent Our Messengers with clear proofs and We send down with them the Scripture and the Balance that may establish the people justice. And We send down iron, wherein (is) power mighty and benefits for the people, and so that Allah may make evident (he) who helps Him and His Messengers, unseen. Indeed, Allah (is) All-Strong All-Mighty.

http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=57&verse=25

As can be seen, there is no mention of chain-mail nor about war.

The verses you provided 3410-11 is specifically for Prophet David. Allah was telling the last Prophet that He had bestowed upon David, the knowledge in the making of chain-mail coat to be used during war, for righteousness. Just like Allah bestowed upon Noah the knowledge about building the ark.

The verse in discussion is about His Messengers, His proof, which He send down from besides Him. And this proof can be found within His Message and works as a Balance. Truth is the Criterion/ Balance between right and wrong, between good and evil, between a righteous man and a wrongdoer.

The verse is an explanation, an analogy, about the purpose of the Book, it is about the Truth that Allah send down within His Message which is to create the faith/ iman within our heart 4251-53. Understanding the purposes of the Book, that is acquiring the knowledge of the Truth from Him alone is more important than iron. In this analogy Allah is telling us that the faith/ iman is a binding which is stronger than iron. In our generations, we always understood that knowledge is power but when it comes to His Verses, most people relied on the sayings of men from centuries ago.

The opposite analogy to this verse is the verse about the spider's house 2941, the weakest of houses is surely the house of the spider. The guidance of Allah is the true guidance.

But as Allah said in His Book, to each his own, no other person, not even the nearest of kin can be a witness or be a defender to another. Only the faith/ iman/ the light of Truth, His proof within His Message shall be a witness against our own self.

Peace be within you.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, Unplugged

Whenever I read and study His Books, I always put myself on His perspectives, not mine or the hadiths. He alone is the guide to the Straight Path and He alone has the Power and Authority to keep us on that Path, or to let us go astray. His guidance is the only true guidance.

Peace be within you.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, Unplugged and everyone

5725 Certainly We sent Our Messengers (rusulana) with clear proofs and We sent down with them the Book/ Scripture (l-kitaba) and the Balance that the mankind may establish justice. And We sent down therein mighty (shadidun) power (basun) (stronger than) iron (l-hadida), and so that Allah may make evident who helps Him and His Messengers/ Messages, unseen. Indeed, Allah is All-Strong, All-Mighty.

These two tools are permanent on my Bookmark Toolbar of my Opera browser. The corpus give me the alternatives of studying the verse, word by word in English and Arabic. The best PRLonline, in my view, for the many related meanings of the root word in English.

http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=57&verse=25
http//www.studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline.htm

(Our Messengers rusulana Ra-Siin-Lam to send a messenger, bestow, let go. rasul (pl. rusul) - envoy, bearer of a message, messenger. risalat - message, commission, mission, epistle. arsala (vb. 4) - to send. mursalat (pl. of mursalatun) - those sent forth. )

(the Book/Scripture l-kitaba Kaf-Ta-Ba he wrote it, to dictate it, prescribe/ appoint/ ordain, judged/ passed sentence/ decreed, drew/ brought together, collected, conjoined/ bound, he sewed it, what is written (e.g. of law), mode/ manner of writing, book, bookseller, a thing in which or on which one writes, record/ register/ writ, revealed scripture, a writer/ scribe/ secretary, an army/ military force, troop. )

(mighty shadidun Shiin-Dal-Dal to bind tightly, strap, strengthen firmly, run, establish, make firm, hard, strong, be advanced (day), be intense. ushdud - harden, strengthen. shadiid (pl. shidaad & ashidda'u - great, firm, strict, vehement, strong, violent, severe, mighty, terrible, stern, grievous, miserly, niggardly. (adj. of the forms fa'iil and fiaal are used indifferently for both m. and f.) ashuddun age of full strength, maturity. ishtadda (vb.VIII) - to act with violence, become hard. )

(power basun Ba-Alif-Siin mighty/ strong, distress/ misfortune/ calamity, state of poverty, evil/ bad, very evil, feigned lowliness/ submissiveness, punishment, state of trial/ affliction, courage/ valour/ prowess. )

(iron l-hadida Ha-Dal-Dal To define a limit, determine (a thing), punish (a culprit), prevent, thrust back, throw back, sharpen. To hinder/ impede/ restrain, to debar or withhold or forbid/ prohibit, to interdict, repel/ turn away/ avert, inflict castigation or punishment, distinguish or separate one thing from another by a mark or note, edge or sharpen a knife, look sharply or intently or attentively at a person or thing, to be sharp in respect of eloquence or intellect or understanding or anger, LLpg162 - cut iron with iron, hard as iron, worker in iron, blacksmith, a maker of coats of mail. )

For me personally, when I read, study and reflect on the Book, I never mix them with science. To me, the Book is all about the Truth between mankind and his Creator alone, about our spirituality. I don't think God will ask me about physics, biology, astrophysics, when my time is up to meet Him. You think?

Whenever I see and feel that there are discrepancies in a verse, I always copy and paste from the Corpus and copy and paste all the related meanings from the PRLonline, as shown above.

If you look at the verse itself, God said, ?He sent down with His Messengers?. So the verse said from besides Him, which means about His Words and revelations only. And it is about His Messengers not the Prophets. There are only two Messengers to do His commands, the Angels and the Holy Spirit/ the spirit of Truth. The Prophets were to receive what was sent down from besides Him. What was it He sent down with His Messengers? It was about the revelations of all Truth.

The Truth is the Balance, the Criterion between right and wrong, Truth against falsehood, for mankind to do justice. And with the Truth our Lord will establish the faith/ iman in our heart so that we are bonded to Him, a binding which is stronger than iron, unseen.

5725 Certainly We sent Our Messengers with clear proofs and We sent down with them the Message and the Balance that the mankind may establish justice. And We sent down therein mighty power, stronger than iron, and so that Allah may make evident who helps Him and His Messengers/ Messages, unseen. Indeed, Allah is All-Strong, All-Mighty.

Peace and blessings be wtihi everyone.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, Al-Azhar

From my personal studies and research, the Nazarenes did not follow the Christianity doctrines created by the Romans and Greeks. Their doctrine was named the Way of Peace. They were a branch of the Jewish sect of the Essenes which was persecuted by other Jewish sects, the Pharisees and the Sadducee with the help of the Romans. Then they migrated to Egypt where the practice of monasticism flourished. Most of my studies about who or what were the Nazarenes and the Essenes, comes from this link

http//www.thenazareneway.com/what_is_a_nazarene.htm
http//www.thenazareneway.com/therapeutae.html

To me personally, in earlier times most of what the Nazarenes believed and practiced are similar to what is taught in the Book of Truth (the Quran). Apart from the Gospel of Faith written by John, I also read, study and reflect the Gospel of Faith written by Thomas which was found at the Nag Hammadi in Egypt. They are very much related to what Allah wanted us to learn, understand and accept; who the mankind really are. To me it was unfortunate that the Nag Hammadi codices which was found in Egypt (a Islamic state), gave them up to be translated and influenced by the Christianity doctrines.

Confusion arises if we still think that Arabic labels must be maintained in seeking the Truth from God. Then, seeking the Truth is that much harder and yet our Lord said His Message is easy to understand. What's the difference between priesthood and imamhood? The way I see it, the differences are in the language and their associated doctrines, but the true meaning and purpose are still the same, a leader in a family, a community, a congregation or in a gathering, about leading an example to serve God alone with His Truth. Allah did not want mankind to create divisions in establishing the faith/ iman within ourselves.

I also believed that there are people who wanted to create confusion, whether knowingly or unknowingly, in the translation of the Book into English. They translated "l-nasara" into Christian, but the true meaning is Nazarene. If the translation is maintain as Christian, then we will have many contradictions on our hands. The greatest blasphemy mentioned in the Book is the Trinity, a religion created by the Romans and the Greeks. God did not take any oath nor made any covenant with them on Mount Sinai, only with the 12 tribes, the guided ones/ the Jews.

Peace be within you, Man of Faith

5727 Then We sent on their footsteps Our Messengers and We followed with Eesa, son of Maryam, and We gave him the Gospel. And We placed in their hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy. The monasticism they innovated, not We prescribed it for them except only seeking the pleasure of Allah, but not they observed it with the right observance. So We gave those who believed among them their reward, but most of them were defiantly disobedient.

Monasticism was/is ordained by our Lord, during the time of Abraham, Moses, Eesa or the last prophet. Monasticism can also be explained as seclusion and devotion towards Allah for His pleasure and His commands. It was done in a section of the holy tent during Moses, a mihrab during the times of the 12 elders and the prophets, from a cave then in a private chamber during the last prophet, or in a room, which should be practiced in our times, without distractions.

It was what they did during isolation, they read, study and wrote their own theologies which God did not prescribed and admonished them.

Monasticism or seclusion and devotion, whether its done in a cave, a room, a mihrab or a private chamber, is a place where one should read, study and reflect on His Words alone for the Truth, without distractions. The Way of Allah is never altered, He was and is always the Teacher, the Guide, the Counselor and the Comforter on the Straight Path.

Seclusion and devotion without distractions is part of the Straight Path, as was done by the last prophet in his private room (491- whenever he study and reflect on the revelations he received. He was told to admonish his men not to call out or shout out his name while he was in his private room communing with Allah alone.

Peace and blessings be within everyone.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, GODsubmitter

Although information on internet can be misleading sometimes, I was just wondering whether HA PACTHAH prayer was a Jewish prayer long before the Qur'an was revealed, and to do that, I think one must go beyond Wikipedia as a source of knowledge.

In blue, you are right, brother. There is always the Mother/ Source of all His Books, the Al-Kitab, with Him besides His Throne.

Who compiled the Ha patchah I do not know, my guess would be Indonesian.
Many Jewish prayers are listed below at the link below, maybe I missed it.

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_prayers#Upon_waking_up

God bless

peace

Thanks for the link, hawk99. But that is a very wild guess, brother ;D

2547 And He is the One Who made for you the night a covering and the sleep a rest and made the day a resurrection.

3023 And among His Signs is your sleep by night and the day your seeking of His Bounty. Indeed, in that surely are Signs for a people who listen.

3942 Allah takes the soul at the time of their death, and the one who does not die in their sleep. Then He keeps the one whom He has decreed for them the death, and sends the others for a term specified. Indeed, in that surely are Signs for a people who reflect.

788 And We created you in pairs,
789 And made your sleep for rest,

From the above verses, Allah made the sleep for our rest, and take us and guard us during our sleep; so I think it would not hurt anyone if they offer prayer of appreciation to our Lord when they woke up. Just saying gratefulness to our Lord is a righteous deed. A deed the size of a small seed is very much appreciated by our Lord. To be honest, I did it every time I woke up in the morning too, in my own words.

Thanks @Zulf for the suggestion. My opinions of Pazuzu's articles is the same with GODsubmitter, too far-fetched. I prefer to remain within the Books of our Lord under His Guidance only.

Peace be within everyone.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, GODsubmitter

I did find the translation into Hebrew on-line after reading your post, but not Romanize and no translation into English, only into Arabic, and it's a Ahmadiyya sect website. They have only partially translated Al-Fatihah, Al-Baqarah and Al-Imraan into Hebrew. And find some news too, from 2007, that the King Fahd Printing Complex was going to do a translation project of the Quran into Hebrew within a year. Now its already 2013, I guess they abandoned the project.

I'm a non-Arab and zero knowledge of the Arabic and the Hebrew alphabets, but I do find that the alphabets are mostly the same. From my personal study and research, I find that Arabic evolved from the Hebrew language and letters. I hope you find this link interesting

http//www.ancient-hebrew.org/28_chart.html

What is interesting to me, the meaning of the word "Hebrew" itself; it has the same meaning in Arabic and Hebrew, with the same root words. And also I find that Hebrew is the only language from our Lord which had been suppressed and distorted. Today Hebrew is heavily influenced from European languages. Even all the prophets are potrayed with European and blonde looks, especially Prophet Isa.

The word "Hebrew" in Hebrew
AYIN-BET-RESH-YOD that which passes further; on the other side; a passing over; a going beyond; ultra-mundane; beyond the terrestrial; not of this world; hidden from sense; occult.

The word "Hebrew" in Arabic
AYN-BA-RA to cross, interpret, state clearly, pass over. i'tabara - to consider, ponder over, take into account, get experience from, take warming. abratun (pl. i'bar) - regard/consideration, admonition, warning, example, instructive warning. aabir (pl. aabiriina) - one who passes over. i'tabara - to take warning, learn a lesson.

Most sayings (doctrines) of men interpret it as the exodus, the passing over from the tyranny of the Pharaoh, the time when the Angels put the mark of the cross on the door and the unleavened bread, the Seder or the Passover, a special date for both Judaism and Christianity. And some interpret it as the crossing over of Abraham of the river Euphrates.

But to my understanding, it was our Lord who called it Hebrew, and it was all about His words and Messages, so the meaning of the word "Hebrew" is the passing over from being unlettered into lettered. Moses was from the unlettered people until God taught him the Hebrew letters on Mount Sinai where he received the written Ten Commandments and the Torah. I acknowledge and accept that Hebrew meant the "passing over" from hieroglyphs, signs and symbols, to the letters we know today. Look again at the ancient-Hebrew writings, from hieroglyphs into letters. Another thing to ponder for those of us who believed in the existence of the Ark of the Covenant and that it will be revealed in the future; in what language will all the tablets and scrolls within the Ark be written in?

It has been kept hidden from the 12 tribes, the Children of Israel/ the Erebs for thousand of years. I don't think it will be in Arabic, Greek, Latin nor English.

Today, God taught all mankind the letters in whatever language and race, and His Books had been translated into many languages. And in this forum itself we can communicate with each other in one written language only, English. I, myself, started the journey reading, studying and reflecting the Book which was translated into Indonesian Malay. Then I "pass over" to the English translated Book when I found free-minds.org in 1995 and the studyquran.co.uk/PRLonline, the best tool for translations, IMO. I believe that we (God aloners/ Truth seekers everywhere) are all chosen to be the next guided people from around the world, but whether each of us respond to our Lord and serve Him alone, and follow His Straight Path and the Way of the All-Mighty, is another matter.

From the Book of Truth (the Quran), our Lord keep reminding us about/with His Words and His Wills. He alone has the Power and Authority to "write" the shahadah/ testimony of the Truth into our heart, to send down the spirit of Truth/ the faith/ the iman, the light of Truth, the living words of our Lord within our heart.

I would like to share with you or with anyone whatever Truth that our Lord has taught and showed me. Just post it here or PM me. )

Peace and blessings be within you.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, GODsubmitter

The first Sura Al-Fatiha is recited in the Salat.

I suddenly found this, and I was both perplexed and intrigued because, long ago, I formed an opinion that everything, if not all, comes from Judaism, both in Xtianity and Islam. Now this is another proof for that, apart from myriads of other proofs.

Here it is

HA PATCHAH
(THE OPENING PRAYER)

BE SHEM ELAH HA RAHAMIM
In the name of God, the Most Gracious (Ezr.51; Dan.99)
T?HILAH L?ELOHEINU RIBOHN HA-OLAMIM
All praise be to God, Lord of the universe (Jewish liturgy)
HA RAHAMIM
The Most Gracious (Dan.99)
MELEK YOM HA DIN
Master of the Day of Judgment (Jewish terminology)
ELEKHA ADONAY EQARA WE EL ADONAY ET HANAN
To you, O Lord, I implore ? and to my Lord I seek help (Psalm 309)
HEHENI BE ORACH MISHOR
Guide us in the straight path (Psalm 2711)
ALEKHET BE DEREHU WE LEYAREH ITTO
The way of life according to His path by reverencing Him (Deut 86)
LE HALAK BE ETSAH RISHAH WE LA SAGHAH
Not by the advice of the cursed, nor of the strayers (Psalm 11921)

So, it is both phonetically and as a meaning same as Fatiha!

Now, what is the origin of "Ha Patchah"?
How did it develop? Was it before or after the Qur'an?

The answers would be extremely valuable.
Thank you

peace

That is amazing indeed, where did you find them, if I may ask? Is the Ha Patchah in classical Hebrew from the Torah or the Talmud or other books? Was it in one chapter alone or was it compiled from the different verses which you indicate in brackets? Is it on-line? Sorry for the continuous questions, bro GODsubmitter ) This is also in line with my current personal study and research for the Truth.

Thank you for your answers gentlemen.

But I would like to get more information about this prayer HA PATCHAH from Judaism, and to know whether it existed before the Sura al-Fatiha, since it would be interesting to discover if it was the material and inspiration for the first Sura, because it is (almost) identical!

What is the origin of "Ha Patchah"?
How did it develop? Was it before or after the Qur'an?

The answers would be extremely valuable.

Peace

From my first impression is that they are identical, and there must be a whole Quran in Hebrew out there somewhere, hopefully not locked up in the Vatican vaults. Remember that before they became Arabs, they were Erebs first, the "mixed" group of people who were punished and cursed and prohibited from the holy land after the second destruction of the temple. God gave them the last chance of repentance (9 At-Taubah) when He appointed the last Prophet, from the unlettered people, to unite the Erebs and took back the holy land from the Romans. This is my on-going personal study and research of the Book of Truth about the journey of the last Prophet and I apologize because its out of your topic.

Peace and blessings be within you.

tauhid101

Peace be within you, supportpeacenotwar

I'm so sorry if you think I'm questioning your beliefs.
I don't have the rights to questions anyone's belief. I need a lot to learn, especially communicating through forums, don't I? -[

Thank you for understanding and its around 5.00am here, need the sleep.

Peace and blessings be within you.
tauhid101

Peace be within you, supportpeacenotwar

Peace, supportpeacenotwar, I am so sorry if my correspondence to you seems like I presume too much. As God is my only witness, I have no intentions whatsoever to presume anything. I'm so sorry. -[

I think I have a lot to learn in writing my thoughts and communications through forum. Please, accept my apologies. -[

Peace and blessings be within you
tauhid101

Peace be within you, Man of Faith

Peace supportpeacenotwar,

Yes, it is as simple as that.

1. Believe in God
2. Judgment day
3. Lead a righteous life

People make God and His system/religion complicated while God does not want to make it hard at all for us.

Some details are written in Quran though, but nothing particularly hard to obey and follow. Those things are recommendations however. Quran gives us lot of clear guidelines and a few fixed rules.

God bless you

Yes brother Man of Faith. It is that simple because our Lord too has set upon Himself the Law, forgot the chapter and no. will post it if you want. But the Law He set upon Himself is this, "Those who believe and do good in this world, and did not know about the Truth, did not commit any sin." And He never lets go any of His creation, if He lets ago astray.. He is after all the Most Gracious and the Most Merciful.

Since we are all guided to His Books for the Truth, there is always a purpose, MoF. God alone or Quran only members from around the world is only about 30,000 members, out of the 7 billions He created. "Who wants to be the helpers of Allah," as the Prophet Isa said. Also the purpose of understanding His Truth, so that He establish/write His living words of Truth into our heart, which is called the spirit of Truth/ the faith/ the iman, which will be our testimony and a witness against ourselves when we meet Him, upon death. It is the true resurrection in this life with His light of Truth.

Peace and blessings be within you.
tauhid101