I will not respond to any more childish baiting.

Happy 2010 Winter Ramadaan to all group

Why are you guys posting on a thread for Winter Ramadaan folks anyway? Just to flex your muscles? If you don't believe then notice how I have not intruded into other threads I don't believe in. You are just behaving like bullies not like the beloved (SAW).

yeah... preserved... sure...

What a bigoted comment!

I take the Quran as my guide. The rest is conjecture.

What a contradictory thing to say!

Nevertheless, show me one place where the Quran says unambiguously to follow it ALONE and I will yield. Arabic only please.

It is in the Sevel Ha Yerushah of the Hawariyun and Masonic tradition, but is also implied as the ultimate origin of Hanukkah in the Jewish Talmud. All religions in the world come from The Deen of Adam and Noah, so it is not surprising to find elements of the story preserved in many traditions around the world.

Sorry I have a free-mind. I am not a "Quran Aloner". Are you?

The month of Burning fires ordained by Adam has always been the 9th month of the religious calendar. This is why Hanukkah is in the 9th month and why Ramadaan is in the 9th month, neither is it an accident that the 9th month of the tax year used to be (and in several cases still is) December when people used to burn yule fires. All these things are the memory of Adam's announcement concerning the fast of Kalenda.

The calendar had slipped 2 whole months by the time Omar created the Hijri system in 638. Why do the traditions say 2 months (60 days)? Why not any other number? Use retro-calculation software to discover where Ramadaan fell in the last year of Muhammad's life (632) while the calendar was still in tact. Let me know what you discover.

Sighting of the full moon of Chislev (9th month) is the start of the 10 day fast (Kalenda) which precedes the 8 days of burning (Hanukkah) before the end of the month.

Have a Holy Ramadaan Layth!

It also means Burning and could refer to the month of Burning which is Chislev.

But why turn ones back on history?

Fact in 632 Ramadaan coincided with Chislev.
Fact 632 was the year people (?mis)understood Muhammad (PBUH) to say there should be only 12 lunar months in the year.
Fact Ramadaan would have coincided with Chisleve every year prior to this pronouncement.
Fact 6 years after the death ofr Muhammad (PBUH) Umar was petittioned to do something about the islamic calendar and there were two systems of calculating the months in place. in one of the systems Shabban was two months later than in the other system.

Since these are the inescapable facts, any explanation has to deal satisfactorily with these facts. It is very easy to invent an explanation which disregards a certain fact, but then the door is left wide open to any other explanation no matter how bizzare.

Fine, except it goes against the historical fact that Ramadaan coincided with Chislev in the last year that The Prophet (PBUH) was alive when he declared the absence of the intercaliary month. Thus up until this year (632) Ramadaan would have naturally coincided with Chislev every year.

BTW Chislev is also the month of burning for the festival of lights.

Preocupation with when the intercalary month should occur is something the Quran seems to be against. The year divides very naturally into 4 equal quarters with the two equinoxes and two solstices. Even without the sun and the moon these quaters exist because they are stellar phenomena. There are 12 moths in Allah(SWT)'s reckoning, so each quater must naturally have 3 months. We are not told that new moons are for the beginnings of the months, but that the new moons are for the beginnings of festivals (in the 12 months). So the new moon of the last third of the autumn quater (21 Sept-21Dec) whether it be near the beginning of that last third, or near the end, was clearly when Ramadan began, every year until the death of Muhammad (SAW).

These dates avoid the historical truth. Not to mention there is a month of fasting. While The Prophet (SAW) was alive, ramadan coincided with the hebrew month of Kislev every year. It was only Omar 6 years after the death of Muhammad (PBUH) who decided not to put in the two intercaliary months needed by that time and the system has had 12 ever since. Why is truth so difficult for some to see?

All it takes is for some surviving members of Muhammad (PBUH)'s family join together in a class action to sue Ali Sina for slandering the life and work of their family member and use the Quran to expose Ali's "freedom of speech" as slanderous misrepresentation, and he will not even put up a fight. In fact he would probably go into hiding (because there is no way he could even afford to settle out of court) and have criminal charges pressed against him as a result

In Muhammad (PBUH)'s last year (11AH) he emphasised that there were twelve months in that year and after. This means the previous year had the intercalary 1st month which used to be called Nasi and that some people believed his last year should also have 13 months. What probably happened was that his announcement was misunderstood and the next year without him around they simply continue the 12 lunar month system every year repeated again year after year. People were probably unsure whether or not they should insert the intercalary month until after 6 years, in the month of Shabban, Caliph Omar decided the 12 lunar month system which they had been following since the death of Muhammad (PBUH) should become official and unchangeable. Traditionally the fact that a man owed him money on a certain date in shabban tipped the scales, and acknowledgement that there had been two intercalary months would have meant waiting another two months for the debt to be repaid.

Omar also decided that the year of the migration 11 years before Muhammad (PBUH)'s death should be the first year. He remembered the day Muhammad arrived in Medina as Monday 8th of Rabi when the 1st of Muharram was (the new year) began on a Thursday. There was no calculation involved other than Muhammad (PBUH) died 6 years ago. 11 years before that was the year of the migration. Therefore the current year was 17 years since the migration, so 1 muharram 17 years ago should be the start of the AH system.

If the year before Muhammad (PBUH) died was the intercalary month then by the time Omar made his decision 2 intercalary months had probebly passed. If on the other hand anyone believes thaty it would be the year after Muhammad (PBUH) died that was supposed to include the intercalary month then still by the time Omar made his decision only 2 intercalary months would have been lost. So all we have to do to pinpoint Ramadhan in the last year of Muhammad (PBUH) is to push the date Ramadan occurred in 17AH forward by two lunar months. Simple!

Not at all surprisingly, the answer we arrive at is that the Islamic 9th month Ramadaan corresponds exactly with the 9th Jewish month Kislev -always has, always will. Thus the 1st of Muharram corresponds exactly with the 1st of Nissan. This by the way is no new discovery at all. Any retrocalculation software will tell you that in 632AD the year Muhammad (PBUH) died Ramadaan began around 22 Nov.

The day Muhammad arrived in Medina on Monday 8th of Rabi (1) in the year when the 1st of Muharram (new year's day) was on a Thursday was the 27th of May 622AD. Because this is the only year that 1 Nissan which we have already established was the 1st of Muharram was on a Thursday (Thursday the 21st of March 622AD which also happened to be the spring equinox).

It is all very simple mathematics really and does not need elaborate Quranic exegesis to establish the date. You could have asked any Sufi.

I appologise for my use of the word certainly. I know strong words like this should be used sparingly. It is simply one of thee unconscious idioms of my speech.

BTW I was not criticising your point about who the Nasaari were. That is not in question you are right they were monophysites -traditionally the ones who supported the title Mother of God for Marym and out of whom many gnostic sects came making Marym into a god.

But the point about Nestorians being Mushrikun because they worship a human god and reject the divine is pure misinformation from start to finish.

With regards to your explanation of Plural and Singular, I do not think the classical arabic agrees with the contemporary. 2111, 2135, 2140, 514, 582 all seem to be adjectives to me.

I think what brother Ahmed is trying to say is that the "soul" that is inside us is the ruh, while nafs = ones identity. There is no controversy here.

On the other hand, 930-33 describes the Nasara as "mushrikeen" (setting up partners) for claiming that Jesus is son of The God. The Nestorians fit this description because they rejected the Trinity and emphasized the humanity of Jesus.

This is careless misinformation. There are two words for Christians used in the Quran. Nasaari and Nasraani. Nasraani are certainly Nestorians. Nestorians regard Isa (PBUH) as a human with a human Nafs but also a perfect and fully divine element within his Nafs. They worship his divinity not his humanity and objected to the phrase Mother of God used by the Monophysites. The problem with them is that they do not realize that every created system has this divinity (Ruhullah min Allah) in it, not just Isa (PBUH).

Nasaari are the same as the Jewish Notzrim, and must be a general word for all monophysite christians irrespective of denomination i.e. anyone who does not make distinction between the divinity and humanity within a creation but regards them as (eaud ballah mn shaitaan alrajeem) mixed or to put it simply someone who believes that Allah can be a created thing (subahanallah mustafaallah). I literally shuddered to type such a thing, so High exhaulted be Allah (SWT) beyond all they associate with him.

Amyway the point was that ayman's info is inaccurate.

The royal we means I/we and Allah so it does not solve the problem of who is this other one/are these others speaking with/for Allah. The "WE" are the sifatullah. And since Ruhullah mn Allah is one of the Sifatullah and it has been breathed into each and every created system, and without which we will die, then by it, the sifatullah become closer to us than our jugular veins which although unheard of at the time of revelation if cut, does not necessarily mean death thanks to emmergency service rapid reaction inshallah. But take away the Ruhullah mn Allah and even the most healthy individual in perfect physical condition will instantly die.

As for the soul. If you mean Ruh then it is explained already. If you mean Nafs then our bodies (along with Ruhullah mn allah) and perhaps many other things discussed by philosophers and psychologists make up part of each person's Nafs (identity).

Ah,

We must all be posting at the same time.

Yes Ahmed, I think you are right.