The main problem, in my view, that is making all commotion in the Muslim youth is the inability of identifying pure Islam. The bewilderment resulted from continuous thesis-antithesis-synthesis process that has not found any maturity yet. Some are accumulating rubbish in the house and some, in reaction, sweeping out all the actual resource and valuable things out of the house. Some strong thinkers are making good approaches, but the successors of the same thinker either are going back to blind-following or out of the rail beyond the thinker?s imagination.

To me the most important thinkers of Islam are Rumi, Iqbal, Maududi, Parwez, Ali Shariati, Ibn Taimiah, Ibn Abdul Wahab, Ibn Al Senusi etc. Each of them has some important staff in their thought. But I see that there is antagonism between them. For example, between Maududi and Parwez.

The tendency which is the most perceptible one is that a thinker gets his laws/principles from on part of Islam and then he applies the principles to other parts of Islam. Such inductions may be applicable or valid in the part concerned but applying these very principles in other parts of Islam may be totally invalid. For this incorrect approach in explaining Islam resulted in creating many faces of Islam. The Salafis, the modernists, the spiritualists, the jurisprudentialists, the traditionists, the Quran Aloners are all unsatisfactory to me. Yet I find some valuable staff in all of them. To my understanding, it is not impossible to unify all their views.

An idea is growing in me that Iqbal, Maududi, Parwez and Ali Shariati are not contradictory with each other; rather they explain different aspects of Islam. But to my surprise, people of nezame islamiyyah are fighting the people of nezame rububiyyah and vice versa.

Islam is like a plant. Some are busy with the roots and putting scissors on the flowers; some are desperate to grow flowers but with angry reaction at the same time cutting out the roots.

I have visited some of the Muslim forums. But being dissatisfied at all of them, one after another, I feel lonely again. I don?t know what should I do? to wait for Mehdi????

Those almost all thinkers were followers of ahadith. And certainly you are here at wrong forum where everyone calims his understanding is right. These people can say that "What the hell is modudi?" God has said every person can understand according to his wisdom.

So these people keep in fummbling forever. Thats why I have left this forum and just came back to see for a while after a month.

VirtualEye.

Peace be upon you Taj,

I have no clue what you just said.

The clue is simple, they need someone stupid towards their support. Quran only and sunnism is a separate matter, but Jaxal is really a satan, and I had pointed out some of his totally crap posts which even deny Islam.

VirtualEye.

What the big deal? I have detailed signature which clearly define my belief. I am never scare to say what is right according to my understanding of Qur'an and deen.

This signature post exchange going on from sometime now.

Signature not like this you have. Because almost all muslims have the same beliefs here.

I had suggested the format of signature in my other post.

Its format might be suggested as

I am a Muslim.
I believe in One God, Allah.
Quran is the divine word of Allah.
I am QuranOnly/Sunni/RashadKhalifa...... Believer
I believe Prophet Muhammad (SAW) to be the last prophet and messenger.

The above is just a suggestion which more clearly distinguishes the non-believers, believers in One god but not muslims, QuranOnly, Ahmedis, Sunnis etc.

VE

Please Watch this for your 90% answers about bible and christianity

http//video.google.com/videosearch?q=zakir+naik+bible+science

VE

Hello,

For those people who can understand Urdu

Part I
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6364792184556584276&q=islam+woman+israr

Part II
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8453932216664643035&q=islam+woman+israr

Part III
http//video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1786501075843892485&q=islam+woman+israr

Please watch completely and then you may comment on it also.

VE

Peace,

I have proven already that the hadith cannot be used here. So we have to try to understand this with the Quran itself. Also VE, there is a big difference with history and archeology and written down hearsay. All history must be scientificaly verified, and then still must be treated with caution. This is how i do it.
So your 2 and 3 are ignorant, as written down hearsay and directly found evidences are 2 different things. And 4 can be checked with carbon dating.

Does the carbon dating prove the authenticity of the archiological writing that the writer in that age wrote corret matter and not like those Imams bhukari and tirmize etc? (well its the claim of Quran only people for bukhar and other imams). You did not asnwer my this question.

And i already gave a beginning
In light of verses such as 1182 and 1574 that talk about the punishment of the people of Lot as being hit by "7ijarat min sijjil", the same exact Arabic term in chapter 105, the chapter is more likely to be referring to the people of Lot and not Abraha.

Nice jump you have taken. Previously you said you have archilogical writing in which abraha is mentioned, now you say they are people of lot.

And please ask you own friends there if you need to open your eyes or not. Why? Have look at only the first verse of this Surah

105.001
105.001 Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Companions of the Elephant?

Did our prophet see lot? or did we see lot? Did our prophet see then brids throwing stones?

Now look at what kind of stonning was on the lut/lot

007.084
007.084 And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone) Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!

Al-Qur'an, 007.084 (Al-Araf )

And in Surah Fil/Feel

105.004
105.004 Striking them with stones of baked clay.

Go ask your some of friends the meaning of who knows arabic.

Now to just prove you one point wrong I have to put about 15 minutes. So when I show my anger that does not mean I am cursing some person. I am angry that people keep giving arguments against me and dont even see the verses and their differences even for a few sconds.

It is evident as daylight now that people in Surah fil/Feel are not Lut/Lot. You could also see this instead of wasting your brain on opposing me.

Pardon me agian I have to be harsh when I have to do more effort on the points which were already obvious.

VirtualEye.

Peace

I did not ask you the fiseability report of the Elephants.

1- Explain the Surah Fil/Feel using Quran Only
2- Using any historical evidence means justifying the use of Ahadith also.
3- That archialogy you refer has same value as Ahadith written in old times. Written Ahadith in old times are also the part of archialogy then.
4- That archialogy is part of your belief to understand this Surah Feel? HOW DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE ARCHIOLOGICAL WRITING WAS NOT WRITTEN BY THE PERSON LIKE IMAM BUKHARI OR IBN-ISHAQ???

Who asked you to prove or disprove any poetry about abraha?

Where is it written in Quran that he was abraha?

If Elephants did not do anything then what is the mentioning of it in Surah Fil/Feel.

PLEASE EXPALIN SURAH FIL/FEEL USING QURAN ONLY LOGICS, AND NOT HISTORY. IF YOU USE HISTORY AND YOU DENY ALL THE BASIS OF THE IDEOLOGY OF QURAN ONLY PEOPLE.

VirtualEye.

Peace

You seem to have misunderstood me from the very beginning VE. I suggested that you start things off since the suggestion was yours, that you may be an example to others.

I'm not trying to prove that you are wrong in anything. I only suggested you do something to which you insist on arguing me with.

Joe

I think you did not understand my point still.

If other people do not simultaniously start their detailed signature, then why do I apply this rule just to me? so that other identify my beliefs from the start but I keep fummbleing about thier beliefs and keep asking them? or remain misunderstood???

I dont want one sided identification. Simple is that.
I want two sided identificaions, at least in most cases.

VirtualEye.

Dear Fellow,

I think I was very clear in this thread that I need elaboration of Quran Only point of view about Surah Fil/Feel. But nobody noticed.

Scondly I would like to say that certainly I would not follow those Ahadith which contradict Quran. To me Quran is the REAL stencil to judge the Ahadith also. And I had been clear in my explanations several times,,,so I dont need to mention my standpoint about Ahadith again. So MQuran Please dont throw your fire on me saying that I beliver quran to be rubbish (Naoozubillah).

VirtualEye.

VE Please open your eyes and see "when the Qur'an is being revealed

Dear VE, do you want to be like these guys here

Of the Haadoo there are those who displace words from their places, and say "We hear and we disobey"; and "Hear what is not Heard"; and "Ra'ina"; with a twist of their tongues and a slander to Faith. If only they had said "What hear and we obey"; and "Do hear"; and "Do look at us"; it would have been better for them, and more proper; but God hath cursed them for their Unbelief; and but few of them will believe. (4/46)

No? Then quit chopping up the Book of Allah. Al-quraan says, if you ask while al-quraan is being revealed, it will be made clear to you. Yet till today, Sunnis cannot even agree on the principles of sharia law, starting with an-nasakh wal-mansukh/ the science of abrogation. So read al-quraan please, if you want to chop and change it, you can be like these guys above here.

Who told you I want to change Quran? Naoozubillah.

I believe in all the Quran Bit by Bit. But I am Sunni and Ahadith believer Alhamdulillah.
I just need a justification from Quran Only people that how do they find out the meaning and context of all the verses just using their limited logic.

And Instead of answering the question and telling me the meaning of Surah Fil/Feel, you started to make me target. If you dont have any clue to explain this surah , then please shut your posts and go somewhere else. Cuz I need the ellaboration of this Surah from Quran Only people. I dont need lectures and warnings about not asking questions.

VirtualEye.

Please refer to this thread

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5683.0

VE

Salaamun alaikum,

Allah asks

O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, Allah will forgive those for Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Forbearing. Some people before you did ask such questions, and on that account lost their faith (5/101-102)

I suggest you heed this warning.

Please open your eyes and see "when the Qur'an is being revealed"

Please refer to the Ahadith from Bukhari to understand the context of these verses

Volume6 Book 60 (Prophetic Commentary on the Qur'an (Tafs)Number 146

Narrated Ibn Abbas
Some people were asking Allah's Apostle questions mockingly. A man would say, "Who is my father?" Another man whose she-camel had gone astray would say, "Where is my she-camel? "So Allah revealed this Verse in this connection "O you who believe! Ask not about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble." (5.101)

Volume8 Book 75 (Invocations)Number 373

Narrated Anas
Once the people started asking Allah's Apostle questions, and they asked so many questions that he became angry and ascended the pulpit and said, "I will answer whatever questions you may ask me today." I looked right and left and saw everyone covering his face with his garment and weeping. Behold ! There was a man who, on quarreling with the people, used to be called as a son of a person other than his father. He said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is my father?" The Prophet replied, "Your father is Hudhaifa." And then 'Umar got up and said, "We accept Allah as our Lord, and Islam as (our) religion, and Muhammad as (our) Apostle; and we seek refuge with Allah from the afflictions." Allah's Apostle said, " I have never seen a day like today in its good and its evil for Paradise and the Hell Fire were displayed in front of me, till I saw them just beyond this wall." Qatada, when relating this Hadith, used to mention the following Verse--

'O you who believe! Ask not questions about things which, If made plain to you, May cause you trouble. (5.101)

Volume9 Book 88 (Afflictions and the End of the World)Number 211

Narrated Anas
The people started asking the Prophet too many questions importunately. So one day he ascended the pulpit and said, "You will not ask me any question but I will explain it to you." I looked right and left, and behold, every man was covering his head with his garment and weeping. Then got up a man who, whenever quarreling with somebody, used to be accused of not being the son of his father. He said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is my father?" The Prophet replied, "Your father is Hudhaifa." Then 'Umar got up and said, "We accept Allah as our Lord, Islam as our religion and Muhammad as our Apostle and we seek refuge with Allah from the evil of afflictions." The Prophet said, " I have never seen the good and bad like on this day. No doubt, Paradise and Hell was displayed in front of me till I saw them in front of that wall," Qatada said This Hadith used to be mentioned as an explanation of this Verse-- 'O you who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.' (5.101)

Volume9 Book 92 (Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah)Number 394
Narrated Abu Musa Al-Ash'ari

Allah's Apostle was asked about things which he disliked, and when the people asked too many questions, he became angry and said, "Ask me (any question)." A man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is my father?" The Prophet replied, "Your father is Hudhaifa." Then another man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Who is my father?" The Prophet said, "Your father is Salim, Maula Shaiba." When 'Umar saw the signs of anger on the face of Allah's Apostle, he said, "We repent to Allah."

The above are just few Ahadith I mentioned, there are more related to this.

VirtualEye.

VE The matter is that they are stucked in their own trap. They dont have any means to explain who was AbuLahab and what did he do.
To find out what wrong he did, they refer to see the rest of Quran, This is rediculous.

Ridiculous to you, sure because you have rejected al-quraan. Al-quraan clearly calls itself 'ahsanal hadith kitaaban mutashabihan mathany' (the best news/narration , a book with similarities repeated&#039. Therefore, to understand al-quraan, one would do well to refer to other parts of it. Abu Lahab is simply in arabic as 'the father of the flame'. One doesn't need to refer to hadith/sunna/seera in order to get more detail of the man. Rather , one needs to appropriate his lesson. It's sad that sunnis treat al-quraan as if it was a book of history.

Certainly one would refer to other parts of quran to understand over all. But with some starting point or clue....
Its not like that ,,,when you dont understand a single thing who was AbuLahab and what did he do....you just say read rest of Quran.

For instance , If I write a book and I write an article "A", I explain something for some purpose, I have include some article for some reason, I will not say "Read the rest of book and this article is just extra without any reason. So you can read the rest of book to get expertise" ..................Certainly the read will ask me, then what the hell is this article doing in your book if it just refers to the rest of book.

To make you more comfortable... I ask

WHAT IS SPECIAL IN THAT SURAH IF WE HAVE TO JUST ASSUME THAT WE SHOULD JUST READ REST OF QURAN.???
ALLAH REVEALED ALL THE MESSAGE TELLING EACH AND EVERYTHING IN DIFFERNT WAYS,,,THEN HE INCLUDED AN EXTRA SURAH WHICH ITSELF HAS NOT MEANING???

VirtualEye.

The matter is that they are stucked in their own trap. They dont have any means to explain who was AbuLahab and what did he do.
To find out what wrong he did, they refer to see the rest of Quran, This is rediculous.

To further add, I would ask what is the meaning of the following verses

002.065
002.065 And well ye knew those amongst you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath We said to them "Be ye apes, despised and rejected."

002.066
002.066 So We made it an example to their own time and to their posterity, and a lesson to those who fear Allah.

Al-Qur'an, 002.065-066 (Al-Baqara )

Secondly explain following
Allah is saying that you already know. Which means Prophet had to rely on the historical knowledge, thats why he knew and thats why Allah is saying that you already know.

I will start a new thread with a more strong question. So be ready with some real reason, and not Greek Philosophies to just try to justfy your thoughts in any case. Like it is said that in love and war everthing is allowed, So please don use Rubbish argumments, Please.................

VirtualEye.

Peace

People will curse you, and others will not. People mention their beliefs all the time in different areas when they give an interpretation which you have somethimes condemned yourself. So why hold back when you are already doing to others what you feel may be done unto you?

Joe

Simple rule
Everyone writes ihis beliefs in signature,
So do I.

Nobody mentions,
I dont have any problem.

Understood? or got lost?

VE

This is a very good TOOL, that if you dont understand the real context of the Surah/verse directly condemning and cursing a person,,, then just refer to the rest of Quran as generally telling what is wrong and write. Very interesting. )

All the subjective stories in Quran have been mentioned in detail as
Who was a subjected person.
What did he do
what he did not do
For what reason he was rewarded or cursed.

Then how come this person AbuLahab is directly being cursed fromt the start of surah?

Anyway I think my arguments here are of no use. You people can do anything and give any rubbish logics to get rid of any historical and/or Ahadith knowledge. You people have changed the meaning of each and every verse of Quran just to justify that we dont need any additional knowledge. I assume if your motive is true then you must not have even learned any language from your parents and Allah would have revealed all the TRUTH on you directly,,,,because as you people think that Allah guides us directly if we want. I assume then Allah would have revealed the Holy text on each of you, because you would only be independant of the secondary knowledge if Allah had directly tought the language of Quran to you without any secondary source like your secondary knowledge, language and historical knowhow.

I hereby quit this discussion considering that I am not enough to answer a dozen people just alone myself.

VE

Both of them were famous opponents and arch enemies of the Prophet (pbuh), even though to the best of my knowledge, Abu Lahab was the Prophet's uncle.

Peace ..

Which knowledge? are you Quran only believer? where is it written in quran that AbLahab was enemy of prophet(SAW)? Whe is it written that he had direct relation with prophet(SAW)? and where is it written that he was Prophet's Uncle?

VE

Dumb Lady!

And by the way, if you are someone who tries to follow al-qur'?n you should know that one should not throw around statements like that.

And you want to talk about respect for women here ??????
About that women are pearls and diamonds to you ???????
Haaaa, haa, haaa ....

Dumb means "Slow to learn or understand", what is abuse in it?

and despite this,,,,,I would like the respect the women who deserve it and not the women who preach that sex has no relation with increase in the human lust, so as to free the women from clothes, in the name of women rights.

When I mention women resemble the respect like pearls and gems, then it means to respect their wishes of my sisters and not to just press them like some people are doing in the name of Islam. So you have to look at the both negative sides.

Who told you that women who are supporting motives against the morals of Islam, are pearls and gems? I would not even consider them rubbish.

VE

Peace be upon you,

War is not prescribed in the reading, fighting is prescribed, but the true fighting is the fight against letting the emotions (shayteen) become your leaders instead of your followers, this is the true jihad. Physical fighting is only done in self defense.

When people instead of coming to the point,,start giving arguments just to oppose the other person, then what can you say?

If a person does not see a thing in the day light then I would say he is blind. Then calling him blind does not do anything wrong.

VE

Dumb Lady!

It is as evident as day light, that sexy looking women or the women showing her body will have more chance of being teased/raped/victimized. Human nature is aroused to see the body of women, and not the covered women.

Even a child can understand that there is more probability of Males to be attracted towards sex when a woman is showin her body more.

And by the way if you are muslim then you could have read the verses in Quran about the use of viel. Quran is even telling to do Hijab within the home also. Do you know?

VE