peace tanveermd
Dear ZS,
I am following the verse numbering according to the Warsh version of the Quran, which the pm translation has adopted. Please see the following for details
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf
So is it supposed to be off by one?
check this out..
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3687
peace brother Joe.
I'm not sure. It does not really matter in my opinion since verse numbers are just a convenient tool for keeping in the memory the location of specific passages.
Yeah I agree with you..I'm just worried that ppl who use the online translation as a reference to their debate or something will refer to the wrong ayah and make people to get confused..
peace.
Peace all,
2234 And there is no sin upon you if you openly propose marriage to these women, or you keep it between yourselves. God knows that you will be thinking of them, but do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to say.
the one above should be 2235 not 2234
Am I Right or wrong?
geeee.... ? ? ? ?
Peace,
And yeah...Just wanna add something for our discussion...Ok, I agree with brother Sham when he said that marriage should be more about emotional involvement. Ok, as example in some places, the marriage between 2 person is decided by their parents (I mean the parents will decide who is the one who will be marrying their daughter)..and in some cases...both of them never love each other or already have someone else in their heart but at the same time, they simply can't argue with their parents..and they get married..and yeah...from the traditional view..they are now a legal husband and wife, they have the "document" to prove that they are now married... but is that true meaning of marriage? or is this a fornication?So, emotional involvement is the most important thing not the document of agreement that need to be signed....
ok, the other thing is..think about 1000 years ago or the time where our Prophet live...There is a husband and wife live in Madinah...they later migrated to some other places where most of the people are muslim (I believe they don't have "supporting documents" as we are having now to prove that they were both married...)..So, how are people going to know that they were both married?So basically, this means that marriage is more about the agreement between two person and it doesn't matter whether people know about it or not....
I think the concepts that are being dealt with here must be analyzed. There are ways to arrive at a conceptual definition using literature itself and the usage of the word (thats how dictionaries are formed, they describe the concept). I see no reason we can't arrive at a conceptual definition of marriage and zina by using the Quran. Merely saying that the Quran prohibts Zina and only allows relations with people we are married to is not enough, because then it boils down to what exactly is marriage? The concept you will find in the dictionary will be the concept as connected with british (english) culture/religion. That is how they define marriage, and so their dictionaries state it as thus. A different concept would be the "institution of marriage" as specified by Socrates in the Republic. The concept here is not an institution of contracts or arranged marriages etc., to Socrates and his people, marriage simpling meant 'mating'. WHen Socrates mentions that the state makes life possible by establishing and protecting the institution of marriage, he means exactly that. The state establishes laws to protect both partners who have decided to 'mate' (remember the greek conceptual definition of marriage is simpy 'mating'). This is nothing to do with contracts, or ritualistic marriages, rather, it only declares as legal the process of human pairbonding. Humans find their own mates just like other animals, I think the Quran is somewhere along this line. A couple that has mated is "married" in effect, as marriage does not mean the same thing here as it does in english (christian definition). Allah has installed certain protections for the woman, such as ujoor, farida etc., and divorce is simply breaking up, but with the time limitation to protect any children that may come out of the relationship. Some argue that paying a woman who is in a relationship with you is prostitution, but Dr. Tatiania (http//www.drtatiana.com/) has a different point of view. In her research, she found that many animals use some sort of gifts in exchange for sex, especially the human female. Upon receiving money/gifts, the effect on human females is one of arousal. Although not all women are like this, this discovery is not startling considering the responsibilities placed on the man by Allah. They were there for a reason. (to the be the protectors and maintainers of women), and the ujoor could possibly be wages not dowry, as that would probably keep the relationship going. The woman likes getting gifts/money, and the man respects more what he pays for, otherwise the same problem happens that happens in the western countries, high promiscuity rate, and high divorce rate. I suppose there is some logic to paying your mate after all.
Great explanation! This is something interesting that I believe not only me getting a useful knowledge...I'm happy that this discussion is getting more serious and people giving out their opinion seriously....
Peace,
but what if he registers with someother username and email address ???
ban his IP....
Peace,
thanks Elke.Geeee...This discussion is getting more interesting..I believe everyone is learning something from here....Well, yeah....As I said earlier..Zina is such a difficult and important subject..yet not that many people really want to talk about it...I started this thread as I see so many people still confused with what Zina really mean (including me) and I can also see...we have different people with different opinion..So, I hope that one day, after all the discussion and research on it, we will all agree about something...
geeee..what a great discussion, It is really appreciated D ..So, I guess tanveermd has given out a detailed explanation and so do the rest of you..Ok..we are done with ZINA,..let us talk about marriage...ok..I saw sham talking about "a piece of paper" or something...ok, is it a must to sign the "document" or something? How about in the case where...2 person like each other but their family don't accept their relationship...Can they get married? Or marriage is just an agreement between 2 person that to live together and to take the responsibilities to take care each other....or they need some witnesses or something to proved that they are married? I mean without taking your country law into consideration as different country have a different law...
Peace brother Ayman,
pronography
Do you mean pornography? Ok. So it is prostitution..But, prostitution by general mean having a sexual intercourse to get paid or to benefit from something and normally mean having sex with more than one person, So the question is..How if let say someone had a sexual intercourse with his/her gf/bf and years after that they get married..Can they be considered as people who commited zina? Well, they had sex before their marriage but later after that, the get married..is that considered as prostitution? And as I mentioned above in my questions, people normally get confused what is considered as "having sex" and what is not considered as sex.So, can you explain that? The other thing is, is "kissing" someone of the opposite sex is haram? Kissing have a lot of meaning and not neccessarily has something to do with sex..Well, if kissing is haram and considered as stimulating someone's sex desire, I think this is totaly wrong..Answer my question then, Do you feel stimulated when you kiss your mom? (Sorry if this sounds a bit rough)...I believe most of us have kissed our mom before,atleast when we were small kids. The answer is "NO"right? So there is no way it is going to be Haram..Am I right? Or I am wrong? Your answers will be appreciated.
Anyone? I believe that this topic is very important as many people don't have the right understanding of it.Its not only going to help me,but everyone who confused with this issue too..
I got this from the free-minds online Quran...
2200 When you have completed your rites, then remember God as you remember your fathers or even greater. From among the people are those who Say "Our Lord, give us from this world!", but in the Hereafter he has no part. And some of them Say "Our Lord, give us good in this world, and good in the Hereafter, and spare us from the retribution of the Fire."
Isn't it supposed to be this way?
2200 When you have completed your rites, then remember God as you remember your fathers or even greater. From among the people are those who Say "Our Lord, give us from this world!", but in the Hereafter he has no part.
2201 And some of them Say "Our Lord, give us good in this world, and good in the Hereafter, and spare us from the retribution of the Fire."
Peace,
I'm doing some research on this topic.I hope that you guys can help me to clarify these questions
Questions
Thats for now, I believe these issues are very important for us to talk about as sex is becoming something normal for many people out there these days.Thank you for helping me and pardon my English.