Relationships
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Peace Sarah, all,
Nowhere does Allah say that male believers cannot be friends with female believers.
973 And the believing men and women, they are allies/protectors to one another.
874 Those who have believed and emigrated and strived with their money and lives in the cause of God, and those who sheltered and supported; these are the allies/protectors of one another.
The word used here is "auliya" which is plural of "wali" which means ally, friend, protector, guardian. So believing men and women can be each others allies/protectors and thus friends, and can meet each other for righteous reasons.
The believers are not allowed to befriend those who oppose The God and His messenger
5822 You will not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day befriending those who oppose God and His messenger, even if they were their parents, or their children, or their siblings, or their tribe.........
Believing men and women cannot be allies/protectors/friends with rejecters, idolaters, hypocrites etc. as they are all enemies of The God
602 O you who believe, do not take My enemy and your enemy as allies, you extend love to them, even though they have rejected the truth that has come to you.
329 Let not the believers take the rejecters as allies instead of the believers. And whoever does so will have nothing with God; for you are to be cautious of them as they deserve. And God warns you of Himself, and to God is the destiny.
4139 Those who take the rejecters as allies instead of the believers "Do they seek glory with them?" All glory belongs to God.
4144 O you who believe, do not take the rejecters as allies instead of the believers. Do you want God to have a reason against you?
In my opinion, believing men and women can be friends of each other and intermingle with each other provided the following conditions are met
- Lower your gaze and dress appropriately
2431 Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, for that is purer for them. God is fully aware of what you do.
2432 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and keep covered their private parts, and that they should not show-off their beauty except what is apparent, and let them cast their shawls over their cleavage. And let them not show-off their beauty except to their husbands, or their fathers, or fathers of their husbands, or their sons, or the sons of their husbands, or their brothers, or the sons of their brothers, or the sons of their sisters, or their children that come after them, or those who are still their dependants, or the male servants who are without need, or the child who has not yet understood the composition of women. And let them not strike with their feet in a manner that reveals what they are keeping hidden of their beauty. And repent to God, all of you believers, that you may succeed.
3360 O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they should lengthen upon themselves their outer garments. That is better so that they would not be recognized and harmed. God is Forgiver, Merciful.- Righteous conversation
2234 And there is no sin upon you if you openly propose marriage to these women, or you keep it between yourselves. God knows that you will be thinking of them, but do not meet them secretly, unless you have something righteous to say.
- Be aware of Allah's presence
588 Do you not realise that God knows everything in the heavens and everything on Earth? No three people can meet secretly without Him being their fourth, nor five without Him being the sixth, nor less than that, nor more, without Him being there with them wherever they may be. Then, on the Day of Resurrection, He will inform them of everything they had done. God is fully aware of all things.
- Meet for righteousness and piety and avoid sin and transgression
5810 O you who believe, if you must meet secretly, then you shall not meet to commit sin, transgression, and to disobey the messenger. You shall meet to work righteousness and piety. And be aware of God, before whom you will be summoned.
- Avoid lewd, immoral or indecent acts including adultery/fornication
1733 And do not come near adultery, for it is a sin and an evil path.
2569 And those who do not call on any other god with God, nor do they kill the life that God has made forbidden except in justice, nor do they commit adultery; and whosoever does that will receive the punishment.
6013 O you prophet, if the believing women come to make allegiance to you that they will not set up anything beside God, nor steal, nor commit adultery, nor kill their unborn children, nor fabricate any falsehood, nor disobey you in any matter which is righteous, then you shall accept their allegiance, and ask God to forgive them. God is Forgiver, Merciful.
6153 Say "Come let me recite to you what your Lord has forbidden for you that you should not set up anything with Him; and be kind to your parents; and do not kill your unborn children for fear of poverty, We provide for you and for them; and do not come near lewdness, what is plain of it or subtle; and do not kill the soul which God has forbidden, except in justice. That is what He enjoined you that you may comprehend."
732 Say "My Lord has forbidden all lewd action, what is obvious from them and what is subtle, and sin, and aggression without cause
4235 And those who avoid gross sins and lewdness, and when they are angered, they forgive.
5332 They avoid major sins and lewdness, except for minor offencesIf all above conditions are met then IMO there is no prohibition on intermingling and friendship. Allah is Merciful and He will probably forgive minor offences (5332).
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Thanks all for that.. Jazak allahu kheirun
You see I had planned on organising a gatherings with Muslims both male and female.. Just something for us to do rather than watch TV or go on the internet all day though I had some people objecting saying thats "free mixing" that's haram bla bla bla.. BTW is there any term "free mixing" or the likes in the Quran?
So anyway people suggested separate the males from the females, or have different days.. but then I thought how do people expect to meet potential "partners" in a halal way if they don't even see each other.. I dunno to much culture has brainwashed people it's annoying.
Again I thank you all, God bless
Asalamu alaikum
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Ok so what's the limits?
What i was curious of is "zina" is it interpreted as adultery and fornication, or is there more to it than that?
For example intimate boyfriend girlfriend relationships, that don't necessary have any sexual intercourse..
Share your views and what you know
thanks for time
Salam
I only read you comment btw, here is my 2c
The Quran clearly allowed unmarried men and women to meet in secret BUT ONLY IF THERE WILL BE NO INDECENCY INVOLVED, in fact the men in siuch meetings are ordered to only talk to the woman in lawful manner ", but do not give them a promise in secret unless you speak in a lawful manner" 2235
this means any sexualy activity before marriage is nit allowed
Salam
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what's wrong with two people having sex?
or maybe I should ask, what is the difference between a married couple and an unmarried couple? (not rhetorical)
peace
I have said this over and over. The sex itself is not a problem at all. But the impacts could lead to problems.
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Thanks all for that.. Jazak allahu kheirun
You see I had planned on organising a gatherings with Muslims both male and female.. Just something for us to do rather than watch TV or go on the internet all day though I had some people objecting saying thats "free mixing" that's haram bla bla bla.. BTW is there any term "free mixing" or the likes in the Quran?
So anyway people suggested separate the males from the females, or have different days.. but then I thought how do people expect to meet potential "partners" in a halal way if they don't even see each other.. I dunno to much culture has brainwashed people it's annoying.
Again I thank you all, God bless
Asalamu alaikum
peace sister
that sounds lawfull,its perfectly ok,both muslim women and men gathering,the trouble can happen when its a one on one thing.
1 on 1 no good,everyone cool! P P Ppeace be with you
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Peace Sarah,
BTW is there any term "free mixing" or the likes in the Quran?
2458 O you who believe, let those who are committed to you by oath, and those who have not yet attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times before the Dawn Salat, and when you put off your attire from the noon time, and after the Evening Salat. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
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Asalamu alaikum )
2458 O you who believe, let those who are committed to you by oath, and those who have not yet attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times before the Dawn Salat, and when you put off your attire from the noon time, and after the Evening Salat. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
I'm not sure what it means by "when you put off your attire from the noon". Though inshallah I don't think it should be a problem barek allah fik, thanks for the info )
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I'll tell you what problems I think it would lead to, I think it's common sense but anyway
- Catching any sort of sickness/disease
- Getting that person pregnant
Ok protection is used these days though it's "possible" that it won't work effectively, plus if you're not using protection how can you be sure she is, maybe she isn't even if you have her word is her word enough?
- Addiction for the desire, if you do it once you might want to do it again and again and again. What if you can't have her anymore what are going to do? go for paid sex? that's just wrong.. that's just listening to your desires, lack of control and yah no good...
Anyway read what Tanveer said, he showed that it's wrong.
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- Catching any sort of sickness/disease
lol, sorry I have to take a detour to explain my answer. Basically, look back to the history of where the idea that disease is contagious came from; late 1800's in France, two bio chemists of the time, Becahmp and Pasteur. Modern medicine is based on Pasteurs belief, that our bodies environment is a result of microbes, whilst Bechamps notion was the opposite, that the microbes are present as a result of our bodies environment.
Point being, something like Syphilis (or any other microbe) for example can only breed an a deteriorating environment, because as the environment decays microbes appear as natures janitors, cleaning up the dead and decaying cells, and the disease felt is what we experience during this process of elimination.
To make it very short, the sickness would not be contagious unless both parties had a unhealthy internal environment.
- Getting that person pregnant
You can get a person pregnant even when you are married. It is not logical to say because you are not married you will not take responibility for the results of your choices, nor to say that because you are not married you feel no 'real' emotions for that person.
Ok protection is used these days though it's "possible" that it won't work effectively, plus if you're not using protection how can you be sure she is, maybe she isn't even if you have her word is her word enough?
In all relationships there is a certain level of trust needed for them to function. If you can not trust a person when you are not married will you trust them more once you are married?
- Addiction for the desire, if you do it once you might want to do it again and again and again.
That is certainly wonderful, to have constant sex with someone you care for, no ?
What if you can't have her anymore what are going to do? go for paid sex? that's just wrong.. that's just listening to your desires, lack of control and yah no good...
So then your reason for marriage is that you know that you are garunteed sex, that then is choosing out of fear. And trying to control our desires is also choosing out of fear, just because you allow yourself to feel a certain way does not mean you will choose to act on that feeling.
Anyway read what Tanveer said, he showed that it's wrong.
Tanveer didn't say anything, he only posted up a quote from the Quran if I am not mistaken.
peace,
Khalil -
Good post Khalil.
In all relationships there is a certain level of trust needed for them to function. If you can not trust a person when you are not married will you trust them more once you are married?
Good point. This is my question exactly.
What do the words "I do" and a piece of paper change how two people feel about each other?I have said this over and over. The sex itself is not a problem at all. But the impacts could lead to problems.
What kind of problems? I know you mean sex outside of marriage. Excluding cheating on one's spouse.
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Peace all,
Tanveer didn't say anything, he only posted up a quote from the Quran if I am not mistaken.
1732 And do not come near adultery, for it is a lewdness/immoral act/indecent act/sin and an evil path.
2131 When his Lord said to him "Submit," he said "I submit to the Lord of the worlds."
3936 Is God not enough for His servant? And they frighten you with others beside Him. And whomever God sends astray, then for him there will be no guide.
755 No, man desires that he continue committing sins.
1224 And she desired him and he desired her, had it not been that he saw His Lord's proof; it was thus that We turned evil and lewdness away from him; he is of Our loyal servants.
2371 And if the truth were to follow their desires, then the heavens and the Earth and all who are in them would have been corrupted. No, We have come to them with their reminder, but from their reminder they are turning away.
1829 And Say "The truth is from your Lord, so let whomever desires believe, and whomever desires reject."
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Peace all,
For whom God's words are not enough, a literature review published in the Journal of Marriage of Family (Ross et. al., 19901061) from the following website
http//members.aol.com/cohabiting/health.htm
Those who live together (and stay single) have very high and increasing rates of health-destroying and dangerous behaviors.
A survey entitled "Monitoring the Future" followed the attitudes and behaviors of high school seniors through the next decades of their lives and found that young men and young women who cohabit in adulthood are different from their peers who don't, even while still in high school (Bachman et.al., 1997173-74). Cohabitors drank more, used more marijuana and cocaine than those who made the choice either to marry or to live singlely.
Those who live together and stay single are at high risk of premature death.
Unmarried (including divorced, widowed and single) people are far more likely to die from all causes, including coronary heart disease, stroke, pneumonia, many kinds of cancer, cirrhosis of the liver, automobile accidents, murder and suicide - all leading causes of death (Waite & Gallagher 20004. For both men and women, being unmarried is one of the greatest risks that people voluntarily subject themselves to (Cohen & Lee 1979707-22). Being unmarried can actually be a greater risk to one's life than having heart disease or cancer. For example, having heart disease shortens the average man's live expectancy by slightly less than six years. But, being unmarried takes almost ten years off a man's life. "How much can getting married do for you?" asks Waite and Gallagher (200047); "it can literally save your life!" A literature review published in the Journal of Marriage of Family (Ross et. al., 19901061), found that compared to married people , the nonmarried . . . have higher rates of mortality than the married 50% higher among women and 250% higher among men!
Those who choose to marry rather than live together live longer and healthier lives.
This is primarily because singles often lead unhealthy and risk-filled lives. A large body of research confirms folk wisdom Married people really do settle down, while those who aren't married voluntarily behave in ways that endanger their own life and health. Singles are more likely to smoke, to drink heavily, to drink and drive, to drive fast, to get into fights, and to take other risks that increase the chances of accidents and injuries (Ross et. al., 19901059-78 and Umberson 1987306-19). One might say, "cohabiting has settled me down, therefore I'm not at high risk." Cohabitation however, does not confer the same kind of health benefits as does marriage. Cohabitation and marriage are, in fact, very different. There is something about marriage itself which improves the years and quality of life. Among the reasons for this, say Waite and Gallagher (200047-64), is that marriage has (1) Social Support. Spouses encourage healthy behavior that in turn affects emotional and physical well-being regular sleep, a healthy diet, moderate drinking, schedule and monitor each other's checkup and health habits and compliance with doctor's orders. (2) Emotional Support. Helps people recover better, manage chronic disease and can actually boost the immune system. (3) Financial Support. Higher incomes boost access to health prevention, treatment and long-term care. The heavier commitment of marriage brings with it long-term concern over your spouse's future well-being not found in cohabitation.
Those who live together are at high risk for having an unwanted pregnancy.
If their purpose for cohabiting is as a trial relationship, then any pregnancy is unwanted. Some cohabitors are teenagers (e.g., those who leave home early and first and second year college students). According to the National Center for Health Statistics, births to unmarried teenagers have continued to increase astronomically 56% in the 1950s, 119% in the 60s, 38% in the 70s, and another 19% in the 80s. More than 1 million teenage girls will get pregnant this year and nearly a half of these pregnancies will be aborted. Half of the children born out of wedlock never complete school and most end up on welfare.
Those who live together are at high risk for contracting HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases.
It has been said that when you have sex with a person who has been sexually promiscuous, then you have sex with everyone with whom that person has previously had sex and therefore can potentially catch whatever disease any of them have contracted. There are at least three health concerns related to cohabiting STDs, HIV/AIDS, and cancer.
According to the Center for Disease Control, cases of STDs have tripled in just six years. Approximately 15.3 million new cases occur annually in the United States; one in four of the victums are under 20. Five of the 11 most common reportable infectious diseases in this country in 1998 were STDs (and that doesn't include the most common STD's, herpes and HPV - human papillomavirus). There are about five dozen STDs including chlamydia, gonorrhea, herpes, syphilis, and genital warts and if left untreated, can lead to arthritis, brain damage, heart disease, infertility, and even death. Nearly two dozen STDs are incurable. Most who cohabit today, especially women, are teens or in their twenties. It is in this age group that STDs are growing fastest. One study over a 5-year period found that 6.3% of cohabiting women had been to STD clinics for treatment compared to only 1.1% of married women (Ciavola 1997). Josh McDowell (1987) says that STDs do not recognize a person's religious or moral beliefs, only his or her actions. HPV is the fastest spreading STD in the U.S. It causes genital warts and over 90 percent of cancer and pre-cancer of the cervix. About 5,000 American women die of this HPV-associated cancer each year.
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Peace Tanver,
You are taking my words out of context, I said Tanveer did not say any words because you did not say any words, you quoted from the Quran, it is a correct statement and observation. What I was asked was to "read what Tanveer said" since you quoted words I responded, "Tanveer did not say any words."
Your quotes still dont explain why having sex outside of marriage is any less than having sex inside of marriage. What the quotes do show, is a judgement of desire.
For whom God's words are not enough,
why suh a low blow, do you not feel your self capable to answer the question?
The article is just an article. Incidences such as cancer, heart-disease, stroke, etc relate to poor diet. Look at cultures that were disease free and not that disease resulted when they changed their diets, this is documented, a good start would be to look at Dr. Weston A Prices book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration or Dr. Pottengers Cat studies. An example, the first case of cancer among Eskimos was in 1936, when Eskimos would get cancer to reverse it they would return to their original diet. You can look at heart-disease such as Artheriosclerosis and note its rise corresponds with the increase of hydrogenated oils (margarine) and decrease in saturated fats. Again, not related to marriage.
In regards to the spread of disease. Look into the germ theory, have you even questioned whether its based on fact or is psuedo-science?
So, now what is your opinion?
peace,
Khalil -
Peace all,
The scientific studies quoted in the article were controlled for all other variables (including diet etc.) except marital status, or living together without marriage versus living separately, thus the increased adverse incidences observed in non-married people living together were only the result of variation in marital status or cohabitation status and nothing else. The facts speak for themselves.
I am not going to discuss this matter any further.
Peace out
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Peace all,
The scientific studies quoted in the article were controlled for all other variables (including diet etc.) except marital status, thus the increased adverse incidences observed in non-married were only the result of variation in marital status and nothing else. The facts speak for themselves.
Modern medicine is really astray in regards to what constitutes a healthful diet and the role of microbes. Look at cultures who were disease free, such as the eskimo, and see what caused them disease (adopting a western diet) and it was a return to their original diet that reversed their disease. Its not an obscure observation. As well, look to a nature, a great teacher, when you change an animals diet they become diseased, they are disease free on their natural diet, to my awareness no animals are married. Their lack of marriage does not cause them disease, a change in their diet does. Again, not an obscure observation.
Though in your own words, can you tell me why you believe sex outside of marriage to be different than sex in side of marriage?
peace,
Khalil