Hoors?!?
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Elke wrote
In the part u quote i talk about life right here on earth and i don't believe u answer that. Sure sex can be pleasurable to both partners , but it clearly is not always - and i do not believe in sex in afterlife...
To ur question, if hoor was only beautiful woman and i was persuaded by this interpretation, i would not accept this islam, if not i'd be just another hypocrite ! But that wouldn't stop me from believing in godSee dear, Once i used to think exactly as you do; but it has changed now. In your posts I, Me, and ego are clearly depicted, I hope you won't mind, because i too am ready to accept any sort of criticisim by you or any.
You do not believe in sex after life..., It is you who donot believe in sex after life; you may be correct you may be wrong, but basing on assumption which is only 50% likely be to correct and you are ready to leave Islam, that says much about your submission to Allah.
Now let us see what does our Quran say about this, we are going to take translation quoted by Mr. Tanveer225 And give good news to those who believe and do good works that they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath. Every time they receive of its fruit, they Say "This is what we have been provisioned before," and they are given its likeness. And there they will have pure spouses, and in it they will abide.
457 And those who believe and do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath, eternally they abide therein, in it they will have pure spouses, and We will admit them to a vast shade.
Now dear Elke, what does these spouses do in after life, will they keep on staring at each other or will they have some sexual experience? (offcourse beside other factors)
Why do you think sex as a taboo in after life?
I will further explain it in next post. -
Tay wrote
Eternal bliss, no fear, fatigue, boredom or grief, being bathed in the light of God's mercy and compassion, His infathomable love, and the removal of all negativity. That should be enough, no?
Peace,
TayWell; I believe that some of the creation of Allah already exits, which enjoys all the chracteristics you have mentioned, but remember Human is above them all "Ashraf ul makhlooqat". Asking for best what is already for lesser makes no point.
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Peace raj-ah
and i'm not your dear, except may be deer (inside joke)
You do not believe in sex after life..., It is you who donot believe in sex after life; you may be correct you may be wrong, but basing on assumption which is only 50% likely be to correct and you are ready to leave Islam, that says much about your submission to Allah.
You're right in the first part of ur sentence (green) but not the second. Read my answer right i said ready to leave this islam, which means islam interpreted this way, which i already left actually and never managed to adhere to before anyway. See i'm frank with u and accept your criticism. As to my ego being clearly depicted - this is easy to say and i could tell u exactly the same. Or do u believe to be above ?
Now dear Elke, what does these spouses do in after life, will they keep on staring at each other or will they have some sexual experience? (offcourse beside other factors)
Why do you think sex as a taboo in after life?
I will further explain it in next post.I don't see sex as a taboo, i just do not believe it necessary. Explained it before. IMO we'll be spiritiual beings in the next life, and also no reproduction, no need for sex. May be though we'll do it like barbarella ? ;D
Elke
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Salaam all
The word is "3een", not "3ain". This expression "7uur 3een" is restricted to the quraan. It's not mentioned in any dictionary.
I believe that both words are adjectives to a missing word. Since verses of the quraan on paradise mention nature (rivers, fruits, trees..), it could be a description for these rivers which are pure and "abundant with water" (3een could be derived from the noun "3ain spring of water) 7uur 3een "rivers" pure and abundant with water.
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Salaam JM
because in Arabic the adjective is always placed after the noun.
I wouldn't say "always". There's what we call an "adjectival idafa", as in "rajulun jameelul wajhi; imra'atun jameelatul wajhi (beautiful face "m" and "f", but the adjective here, although describes the face, but it conforms with the characteristics of the person whose face is beautiful (gender, number...)
Another example is the case of a predicate preceding the subject as in jameelun wajhuhu (his face is beautiful) and jameelun wajhuha (her face is beautiful).
But I do not think either kind apply to the phrase (huurun 3een).
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Salaam all
The word is "3een", not "3ain". This expression "7uur 3een" is restricted to the quraan. It's not mentioned in any dictionary.
I believe that both words are adjectives to a missing word. Since verses of the quraan on paradise mention nature (rivers, fruits, trees..), it could be a description for these rivers which are pure and "abundant with water" (3een could be derived from the noun "3ain spring of water) 7uur 3een "rivers" pure and abundant with water.
Peace Samia,
Why do you think they are both adjectives?
And not both nouns for example ?Are there many missing words in the Quran?
peace
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Salaam JM
Why do you think they are both adjectives?
And not both nouns for example ?I take "7uur" as adjective, plural of "a7war". An adjective can be followed by a noun if it is definite (as I mentioned above a delayed subject). Since 3een is indefinite, I can only see it as another adjective, both describing something (maybe the gardens?!! "jannaat"
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Peace raj-ah
and i'm not your dear, except may be deer (inside joke)
You may not be my dear, but you are dear to me
You're right in the first part of ur sentence (green) but not the second. Read my answer right i said ready to leave this islam, which means islam interpreted this way, which i already left actually and never managed to adhere to before anyway. See i'm frank with u and accept your criticism. As to my ego being clearly depicted - this is easy to say and i could tell u exactly the same. Or do u believe to be above ?
This Islam..... which doesnot suit your thoughts? your understanding?
Some one here says; He can drink wine because Quran does not clearly prohibits it, according to his understanding
Well that is his ISlam
Some one here says there is no Jannah and that is his Islam?
Mullah says we get 72 virgins as a reward that is their Islam?
His, her, theirs, ours Islam.......
I have no problem with that at all, Religon and Deen are two different things and to me what is important is Deen, but Turning and Moulding Quran according to one's own thought is a issue which is debate able.Hoor; according to all the facts gathered and history study guides us to beautiful Women weather you like it or not,...............and if Quran read with just mind the word could be for Men and Women both.
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Peace raj-ah,
Please clarify. Eternal bliss makes no point, but 72 virgins does? I'm not sure what your position is.
Peace,
TaySalaam to u too
When I first joined this forum and had a conversation with FAhad(Salahudin) and masadi, I got a impression that people here at FM are bit impressed by westeren media and are equally rigid as a Sunni or Shia in their beliefs and that is up to some extent true.
Perfect happines is = boredom. As Iqbal of India said it while talking to Malaika"Tu Kia teri Auqaat Kia fiqt Allah hoo Allah Hoo"
If you have read even some of my posts you would have known that I am no advocate of 72 virgins.
Where do you got 72 virgins? The Virgin is not exact transaltion of Arabic word Hur. Moreover
It is no where in Quran?? or is It?
Ah! so you got it from media that a Muslim who will be martyred get 72 virgins in paradise, imean to say that is what is propogated.
Muslims the Sunni Muslims are the largest sect under umbrella of Islam
They believe in HAdith more than Quran and to them Imam Bukhari is almost equivalent to Prophet...
let us see what do they have to say about thisNarrated Abu Huraira The Prophet said, "The first batch (of people) who will enter paradise will be (glittering) like the full moon, and the batch next to them will be (glittering) like the most brilliant star in the sky. Their hearts will be as if the heart of a single man, for they will have neither enmity nor jealousy amongst themselves; everyone will have two wives from the houris, (who will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that) the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the bones and the flesh." (Sahih Bukhari, Book 54 "The Beginning of Creation", Hadith 476)
72 ????? I donot see any 72 in it? I will wait for you and will keep on waiting until you bring a HAdith from Bukhari which mentions 72 virgins.
What do Shia has to say about it?
What do Ahmedi's say about it? -
Salaam JM
I take "7uur" as adjective, plural of "a7war". An adjective can be followed by a noun if it is definite (as I mentioned above a delayed subject). Since 3een is indefinite, I can only see it as another adjective, both describing something (maybe the gardens?!! "jannaat"
OK, but why do you not take "7uur" as a noun ?
Anyway, thanks for your responses, it was interesting.
A question I would like to ask you Why have you never written an article for FM ?
Peace
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Salaam JM
Because I know it's plural. The singular is an adjective. The noun is "7awar" whitness; "purity".
A question I would like to ask you Why have you never written an article for FM ?
I am a teacher talk a lot, write a little, and a translator rewrite what others wrote...in a different language ;D.
But who knows...
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OK, but why do you not take "7uur" as a noun ?
Because I know it's plural. The singular is an adjective. The noun is "7awar" whitness; "purity".
Peace Samia
I am sorry, but I don?t get it.
Here is the comment of Asad
The noun hur - rendered by me as "companions pure" - is a plural of both ahwar (masc.) and hawra (fem.), either of which describes "a person distinguished by hawar", which latter term primarily denotes "intense whiteness of the eyeballs and lustrous black of the iris" (Qamus). In a more general sense, hawar signifies simply "whiteness" (Asas) or, as a moral qualification, "purity" (cf. Tabari, Razi and Ibn Kathir in their explanations of the term hawariyyun in 352).
Hence, the compound expression hurin signifies, approximately, "pure beings , most beautiful of eye" (which latter is the meaning of in, the plural of ayan).
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/56/22/default.htmSo, according to him,
- hur is a noun, it is a plural of another noun ahwar / hawra
- in is a noun too, plural of ayan (eye / spring)
What do you think of that ?
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Quote
The noun hur - rendered by me as "companions pure" - is a plural of both ahwar (masc.) and hawra (fem.), either of which describes "a person distinguished by hawar", which latter term primarily denotes "intense whiteness of the eyeballs and lustrous black of the iris" (Qamus). In a more general sense, hawar signifies simply "whiteness" (Asas) or, as a moral qualification, "purity" (cf. Tabari, Razi and Ibn Kathir in their explanations of the term hawariyyun in 352).
Hence, the compound expression hurin signifies, approximately, "pure beings , most beautiful of eye" (which latter is the meaning of in, the plural of ayan).
http//www.islamawakened.com/Quran/56/22/default.htmSo, according to him,
- hur is a noun, it is a plural of another noun ahwar / hawra
- in is a noun too, plural of ayan (eye / spring)
What do you think of that ?
Salaam JM
I think you allude to his expression
The noun hur - rendered by me as "companions pure"
. This could be just an error, or maybe he is thinking in Arabic, because adjectives are not a class of their own in Arabic, but are classified as "nouns". The second part of his statement "compabions pure" show he understands it as an adjective. It is like saying "a white" meaning " a white person". Hawar is the noun.As for 3een, the pattern shows that it is not the plural pf 3ain (either meaning). Their plural is 3uyuun, a3yun (only for eyes). Another plural of this pattern is the pattern of af3aal a3yaan, which means prominent people as in Majlisul a3yaan Senate (for example). 3een sounds like the plural of words of the pattern "af3al", mainly for colours. Example abyad beed. So t might be the plural of a3yan.
Maybe 3een is the correct plural for "prominent people". We do not have the singular of a3yaan . Perhaps it is a3yan , and that the plural a3yaan is wrong and it shoul be 3een!!
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Peace Samia,
More than 3 years later, is there something new in your understanding ? -
Way Finder
Do you happen to read a book titled ...?
Have you happen to read the thread, (you brought back some old memories), I think JM is fellow who does his home work before posting.
Posted on February 01, 2007, 121635 PM
Posted by tanveermd
tanveermdAramaic and Nabataean are not an ancestor to Classical Arabic. Arabic descended from Safaitic. The Safaitic language is very similar to other North Arabian dialects such as Thamudic and Lihyanite. Once again, Arabic and all those languages are in the Southern Semitic branch (which includes Southern Arabic, Northern Arabic, and Ethiopic). This is a different class of languages than Aramaic and Nabataean, which are part of the Western Semitic branch.
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Way Finder
Have you happen to read the thread, (you brought back some old memories), I think JM is fellow who does his home work before posting.Posted on February 01, 2007, 121635 PM
Posted by tanveermd
tanveermdPeace,
I was talking about 1 particular book... did he read it? I think it is better for him to reply...
However, let me inform you that you are right and I did not read the thread...except a few post... this is why I just asked a straight forward question rather than bringing a topic for discussion...