Hoors?!?
-
Peace all,
I just have a question in my mind. Could "hour 3ain" mean "pure springs (of water)" as proposed by brother Yaseen at the following link
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/hur.htm
Thus the relevant verses would be translated as follows
5572 Pure, confined in tents
5622 And pure/clear springs
4454 So it is, and We granted/gave them pure springs
5220 They recline on arranged furnishings, and We granted/gave them pure springs
3748 And with them are springs, close by/within close proximity
3749 Like crystal white, carefully guardedAs anyone can check, the meanings fit perfectly in the context of the above verses.
And don't worry ......... we still will have pure companions/mates !!
225 And give good news to those who believe and do good works that they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath. Every time they receive of its fruit, they Say "This is what we have been provisioned before," and they are given its likeness. And there they will have pure spouses, and in it they will abide.
457 And those who believe and do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath, eternally they abide therein, in it they will have pure spouses, and We will admit them to a vast shade.
-
Peace raj-ah,
What then you think should be the result of a lifetime good deeds??
Eternal bliss, no fear, fatigue, boredom or grief, being bathed in the light of God's mercy and compassion, His infathomable love, and the removal of all negativity. That should be enough, no?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace all,
I just have a question in my mind. Could "hour 3ain" mean "pure springs (of water)" as proposed by brother Yaseen at the following link
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/science/hur.htm
As anyone can check, the meanings fit perfectly in the context of the above verses.
According to Ahmed, hoorin Aaeenin cannot mean ?pure springs?, because in Arabic the adjective is always placed after the noun.
Cf http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8627.30Peace
-
Peace JM,
I would like to verify that from some authentic literary reference. Would you or anyone else happen to know of any ?
-
Peace JM,
I would like to verify that from some authentic literary reference. Would you or anyone else happen to know of any ?
Another way would be to look for examples in alQuran.
Anyway, do 2 nouns together (hoor and ayn) make sense ? How would you translate it ? "pure women eyes/springs" ?Peace
-
Peace JM,
Yes two nouns can be together like "lahm khinzeer"/meat of pig, or "hajj albayt"/debate of house. But if they are two nouns here then "hoorin 3ainin" meaning "companions pure of eyes" doesn't make any sense.
Grammar rules of classical Arabic were formulated much after revelation of al-qur'aan. There are a few so called "grammatical irregularities" in al-qur'aan where some phrases do not conform to the regular post-qur'aanic grammar rules. Could "hoorin 3ainin" be one of such phrases ?
-
Peace JM,
Yes two nouns can be together like "lahm khinzeer"/meat of pig, or "hajj albayt"/debate of house. But if they are two nouns here then "hoorin 3ainin" meaning "companions pure of eyes" doesn't make any sense.
Grammar rules of classical Arabic were formulated much after revelation of al-qur'aan. There are a few so called "grammatical irregularities" in al-qur'aan where some phrases do not conform to the regular post-qur'aanic grammar rules. Could "hoorin 3ainin" be one of such phrases ?
There are a few questions we can try to answer.
What is the case ? nominative ? accusative ? gentitive ?
What is the number ? singular ? dual ? plural ?
What is the gender ? masculine ? feminine ?
What is the state ? indefinite ? definite ? construct ? -
Peace JM, all,
I just researched Lane Lexicon for other possible meanings of "3ain", and to my surprise I found that it can be an adjective too. Thus maybe it is an adjective of "hoorin" !
According to Lane Lexicon
3AIN Distinguished/appointed/assigned/beautiful/excellent/noble/human/present gift/real/eye/spring/water/tear
Thus "hoorin 3ainin" could be translated as "beautiful/noble/distinguished pure companions" or "appointed/assigned pure companions".
What does everyone think ?
-
Elke wrote
In the part u quote i talk about life right here on earth and i don't believe u answer that. Sure sex can be pleasurable to both partners , but it clearly is not always - and i do not believe in sex in afterlife...
To ur question, if hoor was only beautiful woman and i was persuaded by this interpretation, i would not accept this islam, if not i'd be just another hypocrite ! But that wouldn't stop me from believing in godSee dear, Once i used to think exactly as you do; but it has changed now. In your posts I, Me, and ego are clearly depicted, I hope you won't mind, because i too am ready to accept any sort of criticisim by you or any.
You do not believe in sex after life..., It is you who donot believe in sex after life; you may be correct you may be wrong, but basing on assumption which is only 50% likely be to correct and you are ready to leave Islam, that says much about your submission to Allah.
Now let us see what does our Quran say about this, we are going to take translation quoted by Mr. Tanveer225 And give good news to those who believe and do good works that they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath. Every time they receive of its fruit, they Say "This is what we have been provisioned before," and they are given its likeness. And there they will have pure spouses, and in it they will abide.
457 And those who believe and do good, We will admit them to estates with rivers flowing beneath, eternally they abide therein, in it they will have pure spouses, and We will admit them to a vast shade.
Now dear Elke, what does these spouses do in after life, will they keep on staring at each other or will they have some sexual experience? (offcourse beside other factors)
Why do you think sex as a taboo in after life?
I will further explain it in next post. -
Tay wrote
Eternal bliss, no fear, fatigue, boredom or grief, being bathed in the light of God's mercy and compassion, His infathomable love, and the removal of all negativity. That should be enough, no?
Peace,
TayWell; I believe that some of the creation of Allah already exits, which enjoys all the chracteristics you have mentioned, but remember Human is above them all "Ashraf ul makhlooqat". Asking for best what is already for lesser makes no point.
-
Peace raj-ah
and i'm not your dear, except may be deer (inside joke)
You do not believe in sex after life..., It is you who donot believe in sex after life; you may be correct you may be wrong, but basing on assumption which is only 50% likely be to correct and you are ready to leave Islam, that says much about your submission to Allah.
You're right in the first part of ur sentence (green) but not the second. Read my answer right i said ready to leave this islam, which means islam interpreted this way, which i already left actually and never managed to adhere to before anyway. See i'm frank with u and accept your criticism. As to my ego being clearly depicted - this is easy to say and i could tell u exactly the same. Or do u believe to be above ?
Now dear Elke, what does these spouses do in after life, will they keep on staring at each other or will they have some sexual experience? (offcourse beside other factors)
Why do you think sex as a taboo in after life?
I will further explain it in next post.I don't see sex as a taboo, i just do not believe it necessary. Explained it before. IMO we'll be spiritiual beings in the next life, and also no reproduction, no need for sex. May be though we'll do it like barbarella ? ;D
Elke
-
Salaam all
The word is "3een", not "3ain". This expression "7uur 3een" is restricted to the quraan. It's not mentioned in any dictionary.
I believe that both words are adjectives to a missing word. Since verses of the quraan on paradise mention nature (rivers, fruits, trees..), it could be a description for these rivers which are pure and "abundant with water" (3een could be derived from the noun "3ain spring of water) 7uur 3een "rivers" pure and abundant with water.
-
Salaam JM
because in Arabic the adjective is always placed after the noun.
I wouldn't say "always". There's what we call an "adjectival idafa", as in "rajulun jameelul wajhi; imra'atun jameelatul wajhi (beautiful face "m" and "f", but the adjective here, although describes the face, but it conforms with the characteristics of the person whose face is beautiful (gender, number...)
Another example is the case of a predicate preceding the subject as in jameelun wajhuhu (his face is beautiful) and jameelun wajhuha (her face is beautiful).
But I do not think either kind apply to the phrase (huurun 3een).
-
Salaam all
The word is "3een", not "3ain". This expression "7uur 3een" is restricted to the quraan. It's not mentioned in any dictionary.
I believe that both words are adjectives to a missing word. Since verses of the quraan on paradise mention nature (rivers, fruits, trees..), it could be a description for these rivers which are pure and "abundant with water" (3een could be derived from the noun "3ain spring of water) 7uur 3een "rivers" pure and abundant with water.
Peace Samia,
Why do you think they are both adjectives?
And not both nouns for example ?Are there many missing words in the Quran?
peace
-
Salaam JM
Why do you think they are both adjectives?
And not both nouns for example ?I take "7uur" as adjective, plural of "a7war". An adjective can be followed by a noun if it is definite (as I mentioned above a delayed subject). Since 3een is indefinite, I can only see it as another adjective, both describing something (maybe the gardens?!! "jannaat"
-
Peace raj-ah
and i'm not your dear, except may be deer (inside joke)
You may not be my dear, but you are dear to me
You're right in the first part of ur sentence (green) but not the second. Read my answer right i said ready to leave this islam, which means islam interpreted this way, which i already left actually and never managed to adhere to before anyway. See i'm frank with u and accept your criticism. As to my ego being clearly depicted - this is easy to say and i could tell u exactly the same. Or do u believe to be above ?
This Islam..... which doesnot suit your thoughts? your understanding?
Some one here says; He can drink wine because Quran does not clearly prohibits it, according to his understanding
Well that is his ISlam
Some one here says there is no Jannah and that is his Islam?
Mullah says we get 72 virgins as a reward that is their Islam?
His, her, theirs, ours Islam.......
I have no problem with that at all, Religon and Deen are two different things and to me what is important is Deen, but Turning and Moulding Quran according to one's own thought is a issue which is debate able.Hoor; according to all the facts gathered and history study guides us to beautiful Women weather you like it or not,...............and if Quran read with just mind the word could be for Men and Women both.
-
Peace raj-ah,
Please clarify. Eternal bliss makes no point, but 72 virgins does? I'm not sure what your position is.
Peace,
TaySalaam to u too
When I first joined this forum and had a conversation with FAhad(Salahudin) and masadi, I got a impression that people here at FM are bit impressed by westeren media and are equally rigid as a Sunni or Shia in their beliefs and that is up to some extent true.
Perfect happines is = boredom. As Iqbal of India said it while talking to Malaika"Tu Kia teri Auqaat Kia fiqt Allah hoo Allah Hoo"
If you have read even some of my posts you would have known that I am no advocate of 72 virgins.
Where do you got 72 virgins? The Virgin is not exact transaltion of Arabic word Hur. Moreover
It is no where in Quran?? or is It?
Ah! so you got it from media that a Muslim who will be martyred get 72 virgins in paradise, imean to say that is what is propogated.
Muslims the Sunni Muslims are the largest sect under umbrella of Islam
They believe in HAdith more than Quran and to them Imam Bukhari is almost equivalent to Prophet...
let us see what do they have to say about thisNarrated Abu Huraira The Prophet said, "The first batch (of people) who will enter paradise will be (glittering) like the full moon, and the batch next to them will be (glittering) like the most brilliant star in the sky. Their hearts will be as if the heart of a single man, for they will have neither enmity nor jealousy amongst themselves; everyone will have two wives from the houris, (who will be so beautiful, pure and transparent that) the marrow of the bones of their legs will be seen through the bones and the flesh." (Sahih Bukhari, Book 54 "The Beginning of Creation", Hadith 476)
72 ????? I donot see any 72 in it? I will wait for you and will keep on waiting until you bring a HAdith from Bukhari which mentions 72 virgins.
What do Shia has to say about it?
What do Ahmedi's say about it?