confession
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Salam,
I wonder you heard these verses before
Al Quran is complete and fully detailed
Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this Scripture fully detailed?? Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
In their stories is a lesson for the people of intelligence. It was not a narration (hadis) that was invented, but an authentication of what is already present and a detailing of all things, and a guidance and mercy to a people who believe.
Which Hadis?
These are God's revelations that We recite to you with truth. So, in which narration (Hadis), after God and His revelations, do they believe?
Did they not look at the dominion of heavens and earth, and all that God has created? Perhaps their time is drawing near; so in which narrations (Hadis) after this one will they believe?
So in what words (Hadis) after this will they believe?
One consistent source is better than multiple and contradicting source
God cites the example of a man who has partners that dispute with each other, and a man who has given to dealing with only one man. Are they the same? Praise be to God; most of them do not know.
I hope this will help
Regards
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peace
I didn't confess. I demanded that everyone else agree with me because I was right. My parents didn't like that, niether did some of my friends.
But it turns out that I really didn't know much back then. I know so much more than I did a year ago, and I'm still learning.
I think that if we find a certain teaching or belief useful, we should share it with others so that it may benefit them. -
Thank you gclandcp , Alen and phoenix1 )
I just wanted things up my sleeve for when or if I use them...
phoenix1, not many people like the idea, they can't grasp the fact of hadith because they have been taught their whole life to follow it accept it etc etc it's too much to take in..
I remember a while ago I would discuss things with my brother but not being harsh about hadith, just questioning its validity and strength, anyway I said it would be good to study hadith and his reply was you want to study it for the wrong reasons.. anyway he thought I wanted to become a shia so he started saying they ishrek and it's almost like kiffar and calling them kiffar isn't wrong bla bla bla. I never really discussed anything more.
And I am yet to find anyone (in the flesh that is) who doesn't follow either shia-ism, sunnism or some other form or sect. So its kinda uncomforting.
I told one person I know of my thoughts, of my beliefs his reply was "you're stuffed" he also said "if the hadith said women are PLUS PLUS PLUS + + + + + you'd love them" then I said no because it makes no sense according to the Quran, anyway I explained that hadith is taken a form of law before Quran he doesn't see it that way, in his belief hadith is there which isn't right or wrong and it must be good because it has lasted for centuries for the Muslims to look up to.
The biggest problem I believe is hardly anyone knows when hadith came about, they don't know of it's authenticity they just accept the scholars word. Even in Bukhari not all his hadiths are considered authentic, but you tell any sunni muslim he will say bukhari and muslim are authentic. That's not the only problem but it's a major one.
Another is not understanding the Quran or not even trying to learn it people will go to "Quran school" or "Arabic school" to learn in their early childhood, and then discontinue as they get older and forget what they have learnt because they haven't been practising. Then they go to a mosque on Friday hear a short hadith and remember it. Most people will remember a hadith uttered and explained but not many people will remember Quran uttered and explained, and really I've been to the mosque on Friday's on many occasions I notice that a hadith will be explained, the Quran will be quoted in the context not really explained. Some things are straight forward but not all people will understand. I dunno this is my observation.
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Peace Sarah, all,
Since I have discovered the true islam about 3 years ago, I have stopped going to the local "mosque". I have discussed it with some of the sectarians and they don't even wanna listen to me and think I have been misguided. Only one of my friends finally agreed with me after some discussions and after he verified it for himself from the Qur'aan, and he is not a sectarian any more; he is "platinum" on this forum. I also have another friend who introduced me to the true islam 3 years ago when I used to be a sunni sectarian. His brother also has the same views. So I guess I know three people "in the flesh" who believe in the true islam !
I have been banned from couple of "islamic" forums for trying to spread the message of The God according to the Qur'aan ! I have a myspace profile and I found some "islamic" forums on myspace and when I tried to tell fellow muslims about the true islam and draw their attention to the fabricated hadeeth falsely attributed to Prophet Muhammad in those forums, I was boycotted and they rejected my add as friend requests ! I still managed to make a handful of friends there though !
My parents introduced me to a couple of girls for the purpose of marriage, and I also met some muslim ladies through a muslim matrimonial website; they all disappeared faster than a speeding rocket after they found out my views !! My marriage prospects seem to be bleak after my discovery of the true islam !! I actually have almost given up on marriage !
Regarding "hadeeth" and "sunnah", the following short discourse discusses the relevant verses from al-qur'aan
The word "sunnah" has been mentioned in relation with Allah in al-qur'aan, but has not been mentioned in relation with Prophet Muhammad (3338, 3362, 3543, 4085, 4823).
The word used for the example of the messenger in al-qur'aan is "uswa"
3321 Indeed, in the messenger of God a good example (uswa) has been set for you for he who seeks God and the Last Day and thinks constantly about God.
We can find all the examples of messengers of God relevant to our guidance in al-qur'aan itself.
179 This Quran guides to that which is more upright, and it gives glad tidings to the believers who do good work that they will have a bountiful reward.
1710 And for those who do not believe in the Hereafter, We have prepared for them a painful retribution.
1711 And man calls to evil as much as he calls to good, and man was always hasty.
1712 And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely.All the true examples of messengers relevant to our guidance are in al-qur'aan already so we don't need any other source. The God has preserved only His revelations and it would be foolish to follow any other source which can never be 100% accurate and true.
6836 What is wrong with you, how do you judge?
6837 Or do you have another book which you study?
6838 In it, you can find what you wish?487 God, there is no god but He. He will gather you for the Day of Resurrection in which there is no doubt. Who is more truthful in HADEETH than God?
The words of The God are fully detailed relevant to our guidance, so why do we need another source ?
6114 "Shall I seek other than God as a judge when He has sent down to you this scripture fully detailed?" Those to whom We have given the Scripture know it is sent down from your Lord with truth; so do not be of those who have doubt.
12111 In their stories is a lesson for the people of intelligence. It was not a HADEETH that was invented, but an authentication of what was already revealed and a detailing of all things, and a guidance and mercy to a people who believe.
1712 And We made the night and the day as two signs, so We erased the sign of night and We made the sign of day to see-in, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know the number of the years and the count. And everything We have detailed completely.
The Qur'aan authenticates and confirms the previous scriptures, and what did The God say about one of the previous scriptures ?
6154 Then We gave Moses the scripture, to complete for those who do right, and to fully detail all things, and a guide and mercy that they may believe in the meeting of their Lord.
7145 And We wrote for him on the tablets from everything a lesson, and detailing all things. Take it with strength and order your people to take the best from it. I will show you the abode of the corrupt.
All the true hadeeth relevant to our guidance are in al-qur'aan already, and we do not need any other source.
3923 God has sent down the best HADEETH, a scripture that is similar with two paths. The skins of those who reverence their Lord shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts soften up to the remembrance of God. Such is God's guidance; He guides with it whoever He wills. And for whomever God misguides, then none can guide him.
We should not accept baseless hadeeth, which are unverifiable hearsay based on conjecture
316 And from the people, there are those who accept baseless HADEETH to mislead from the path of God without knowledge, and they take it as entertainment. These will have a humiliating retribution.
Those who invent these false hadeeth are enemies of the prophets
6112 And as such, We have permitted the enemies of every prophet, human and Jinn devils, to inspire in each other with fancy words in order to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it. You shall disregard them and their fabrications.
We should be aware that the majority of the people on earth misguide others by following conjectures
6116 And if you obey the majority of those on Earth they will lead you away from God's path; that is because they follow conjecture, and that is because they only guess.
1036 Most of them only follow conjecture. While conjecture does not avail against the truth in anything. God is aware of what they do.
The disbelievers conjecture and invent and fabricate fale hadeeth about the messengers and lie to misguide others
6148 Those who have set up partners will Say "If God wished, we would not have set up partners, nor would have our fathers, nor would we have forbidden anything." Those before them lied in the same way, until they tasted Our might. Say "Do you have any knowledge to bring out to us? You only follow conjecture, you only guess."
5328 While they had no knowledge about this; they only followed conjecture. And conjecture is no substitute for the truth.
What will be our answer to the following questions asked by The God ?
7185 Did they not look at the dominion of heavens and Earth, and all that God has created? Perhaps their time is drawing near; so in which HADEETH after this one will they believe?
456 These are God's revelations that We recite to you with truth. So, in which HADEETH after God and His revelations do they believe?
7749 Woe on that Day to the disbelievers!
7750 So in what HADEETH after it will they believe?Following are some very nice articles about "hadeeth" and the authority of the Qur'aan
http//members.tripod.com/lebou/authorityof.htm
http//members.aol.com/masadi/hadith.htm
http//mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/think-786/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htm
http//free-minds.org/books/kassim.htm
http//free-minds.org/books/naveed.htm
http//free-minds.org/books/wadud_00pre.htm
http//www.beacon2005.com/Criminals.pdf
http//www.tolueislam.com/Parwez/mh/mh.htm
http//www.mostmerciful.com/hadithbook-sectionone.htm
http//www.mostmerciful.com/bukhari--munkar-e-hadeeth.htm
http//free-minds.org/books/journey.htm
http//free-minds.org/articles.htm#hadith
Hope that helps.
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Thanks Tanveer it's a great help.
It's a shame not many people alike are around in person. I go onto this "islamic" chat occassionaly, and there is a person who tries to explain that following hadiths are wrong.. though I guess he goes about it the wrong way (in my opinion). He always gets banned from the room his known as the "hadith hater", "the rejected of the prophets sunnah", "the slanderer" it's sad. Though people don't see what he is trying to convey they just see this hostility. I'm sure if he spoke more eloquently more people would listen.
It's great you have a friend by your side I wish I had that. So far I've only told one person I know of. He isn't very religious I assumed maybe he would consider it after explaining a few things but I was so wrong. Though off course I don't know what the future holds.
Lol that's what I fear marrying someone who totally rejects what I believe, or tries brainwashing the kids with his theories, if I ever have any. It would be so much easier to marry someone with the same perspective though the case is highly unlikely.
I never really had the guts to tell anyone of my beliefs, usually I try see their perspectives by asking "what do you think about hadiths"..
Anyway thank you again for the info and the links
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Peace Sarah,
You are most welcome and thank you for sharing your experiences. Following is another very interesting link about a debate on "hadeeth" which gives points of view of both sides
http//www.e-bacaan.com/artikeli_FinalD0.htm
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I never really thought of it as learning Quran through topics, I guess it would be useful. Besides I've never heard of a Quranic Dictionary, I've heard of a gossary and index terms but they don't have everything, well I don't find them very useful. It's funny that you mention it because I was planning on making sorta like a book; topics and the verses that relate to it.. anyway I'm just lazy and I have slow internet connection it's easier to be spoon fed.
I just wanted some quotes well verses to help me. I don't think I'll be telling my family anytime soon because I'm to scared of the reaction. I would need to be able to quote things by memory without any books or internet in hand before I tell them, otherwise I'll look like a fool.
It's nearly 11pm here I need some rest inshallah I'll take a look at the links tomorrow ) thanks for sharing, thanks for your time )
I really appreciate it
Asalamu alaikum
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Hi Sarah,
in Spain there are muslims that don't deny the hadiths, but they have the same interpretation the Quran only people have in this forum, in general terms at least, as I could verify many times reading articles on their website www.webislam.com, I suppose they pay attention to the hadiths they consider according to the Quran, or with logic, or a similar way, I dion't know.
Perhaps it is better to ignore the hadih narrations as a whole but I have seen there it is possible a 'non-sectarian' interpretation even not rejecting them. I am telling this just so that you know, I am not part of them I am not muslim.
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peace Sarah,
I strongly recommend the following website www.studyQuran.org
It contains a topic index, free Classical Arabic dictionaries, concordance etc. and much more.
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Peace Sarah, all,
Brother Wakas' website is excellent for studying the Qur'aan. Check out project root list (PRL) in it, in addition to all other excellent tools for studying the Qur'aan.
I have also found Dictionary of the Holy Quran by Abdul Mannan Omar very useful and it is a must buy
http//www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Holy-Quran-Abdul-Mannan/dp/0963206796
Some more tools that are useful for researching the Qur'aan (some of them are included in Wakas' website)
http//www.openburhan.com/ob_main_frame.html
http//yaqb.org/
http//quranbrowser.com/
http//quranbrowser.org/
http//www.free-minds.org/quran/PM/I
http//www.qaiu.org/archives/quran/arabic_lexicon_projects/index.html
http//www.islamicity.com/ps/
http//www.textinmotion.com/
http//www.understandquran.com/
http//quran.muslim-web.com/ (Arabic website)
http//thequran.wordpress.com/2006/11/14/msn-quran/
http//www.xrce.xerox.com/competencies/content-analysis/arabic/input/keyboard_input.html
http//www.amazon.com/gp/product/0946621683/sr=1-4/qid=1155120374/ref=sr_1_4/104-4829665-8275134?redirect=true&ie=UTF8&s=books
http//www.amazon.co.uk/Understanding-Quran-Themes-London-Studies/dp/1860646506
Some more verses from the Qur'aan relevant to the hadeeth issue
The Qur'aan has every kind of example relevant to our guidance
3927 And We have given to the people in this Quran from EVERY example, that they may take heed.
1789 And We have displayed/explained to the people in this Quran from EVERY example, but most people refuse to be anything but a rejecter!
Here, The God says that He has explained EVERY KIND OF EXAMPLE for our guidance within the Qur'aan. Thus, when Allah Himself testifies that every kind of example is within the Qur'aan, does the Muslim need to look elsewhere for examples ? In fact, the word "example" by definition means that it is referring to a specific case outlining a general principal.
1689 And We have revealed the Book to you which has the CLEAR EXPLANATION of everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
There cannot be any words clearer than this. When He says "liKULLI Shai'in" that means EVERYTHING. If the Qur'aan itself is supposed to explain everything, what does it mean to explain the Qur'aan by other books ? In other words, the above verse is saying that there is NOTHING that is not explained by the Qur'aan. The Muslim who says that "not everything is in the Qur'aan", must sit down and contemplate on these verses and reflect on the logical consequences of his statement.
The God explains His verses Himself, so we do not need any other source for their explanation
7518 So when We compile it, you shall follow its compilation.
7519 Then it is for Us to explain it.The God has neglected nothing from the Book, relevant to our guidance
638 We have NEGLECTED NOTHING in the Book; then to their Lord they will be gathered.
The sectarians believe that the Qur'aan is not enough. What will be the believer's answer to the following God's question ?
2951 IS IT NOT ENOUGH FOR THEM that We have revealed to you the Book, which is recited to them ? Most surely there is a mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe ?
We should not disregard the Qur'aan when it tells us that it is fully detailed, contains detail of all things, has every kind of example, nothing is neglected from it, is the best hadeeth, and not to believe in any hadeeth other than The God's revelations, relevant to our guidance
5677 It is an honourable Quran.
5678 In a protected record.
5679 None can grasp it except those pure.
5680 A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
5681 Are you disregarding this narration?The Messenger will complain on the Last Day
2530 And the messenger said "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
Please note that in 2530, the Messenger does not say that my people have deserted this Qur'aan AND my sunnah/hadeeth.
The only place where Allah talks about Prophet Muhammad's sayings is the following, where He clearly says that the Qur'aan is the saying of the Prophet Muhammad
6940 This is the saying (qawl) of an honourable messenger.
6941 It is not the saying of a poet; rarely do you believe.
6942 Nor the saying of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed.
6943 A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
6944 And had he attributed anything falsely to Us.
6945 We would have seized him by the right.
6946 Then, We would have severed his life-line.
6947 None of you would be able to prevent it.What did the Messenger himself follow ?
1015 And when Our clear revelations are recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said "Bring a Quran other than this, or change it!" Say "It is not for me to change it from my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear if I disobey my Lord the retribution of a great day!"
650 Say "I do not say to you that I posses God's treasures, nor do I know the future, nor do I say to you that I am an Angel. I merely follow what is inspired to me." Say "Are the blind and the seer the same? Do you not think?"
7203 And because you do not bring them a sign, they Say "If only you had brought one." Say "I only follow what is inspired to me from my Lord. This is an evidence from your Lord, and a guide and mercy to a people who believe."
469 Say "I am no different from the other messengers, nor do I know what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is inspired to me. I am no more than a clear warner"
In the following verse, what is inspired to him is clearly the Qur'aan
1015 And when Our clear revelations are recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said "Bring a Quran other than this, or change it!" Say "It is not for me to change it from my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear if I disobey my Lord the retribution of a great day!"
Could the Prophet have gone against Allah's words when ordered by Him to follow what was inspired to him and make laws according to it ?
10109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.
The Messenger was ordered to judge the believers only by the Qur'aan
544 And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.
545 And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.
547 And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the vile ones.
548 And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
549 And judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their wishes, and beware lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you. If they turn away, then know that God wants to inflict them with some of their sins; and most of the people are corrupt.In 549, "lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you" clearly shows that he could judge ONLY by the Qur'aan and not his personal wishes.
4105 We have revealed to you the Scripture with truth that you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you, and do not be an advocate for the treacherous.
2213 The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and warners, and He sent down with them the Scripture with the facts so that they may judge between the people in what they were disputing. But after receiving the clarity, the people disputed in it due to animosity between them. And God guided those who believed with His permission regarding what they disputed in of the truth. And God guides whoever He wishes to a straight path.
323 Did you not see those who were given a portion of the Scripture being invited to God's Scripture to judge between them, then a group of them turns away while they are adverse?
The God places a shield on the disbelievers' heart and deafness in their ears and an invisible barrier between them and the believers, preventing the disbelievers from finding the truth.
1745 And when you read the Quran, We place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier.
1746 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord alone in the Quran, they run away turning their backs in aversion.The God tells us about these people in the following verses
1855 And what prevented the people from believing when the guidance came to them, and to seek forgiveness from their Lord ? Are they waiting for what happened to the people of old to come to them, or that the retribution be brought to them face to face?
1856 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners. But those who reject will argue using falsehood to overshadow the truth with it. And they took My revelations and what they have been warned by as a joke!
1857 And who is more wicked than one who is reminded of his Lord's verses but he turned away from them, and he forgot what his hands had done. We have made veils upon their hearts from understanding them, and a deafness in their ears. And if you invite them to the guidance, they will never be guided. -
Hi Sarah,
in Spain there are muslims that don't deny the hadiths, but they have the same interpretation the Quran only people have in this forum, in general terms at least, as I could verify many times reading articles on their website www.webislam.com, I suppose they pay attention to the hadiths they consider according to the Quran, or with logic, or a similar way, I dion't know.
Perhaps it is better to ignore the hadih narrations as a whole but I have seen there it is possible a 'non-sectarian' interpretation even not rejecting them. I am telling this just so that you know, I am not part of them I am not muslim.
Wow, a Spaniard muslim friend of mine once told me the same thing about North African muslims' approach toward hadiths. I guess it is also one of the factors that make them LESS extreme than muslims in the Middle East.
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Hi Elena )
Well I don't exactly "deny" hadiths.. I believe there is some truth in them (not all of them) there is some with falsehood. Though I make it clear that I don't take hadith as law. The law is in the Quran off course in my beliefs.
It would be really good to study hadith, to distinguish the right from wrong though it would be more fun and beneficial to study Quran.. if I had the ability to study hadith I would though if I was to do that it would help if I had someone doing it with me to motivate me also I probably would need to understand the concept of hadith how it's authenticity is apparently formed; to be able to scrutinize it, I can't do that where I am living I can get a basic ideas from books though I think I would need more than that. I'd need to go overseas most likely. I'm barely allowed outside my house so again I doubt I would be doing it. Another factor is that I would need to understand the Quran well to be able to distinguish things as absolutely ok and absolutely not ok.
Anyway thank you for sharing the thoughts and the link ) I believe everyone has their own perception in religion, everyone tackles it differently some more similar than others but there will always be varying opinions and not all are necessarily wrong (or right for that matter). Anyway so far I feel content with my beliefs I feel I am on the right path. I guess most people do otherwise they wouldn't believe what they believe. So each to their own way and eventually we'll get judged accordingly in the most just way D
Take care )
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Peace Sarah, all,
I also do not deny hadeeth; I believe that all the true hadeeth relevant for our guidance are already in the Qur'aan. All the verses or parts of verses that start with "say" and addressed to Prophet Muhammad become his "hadeeth" because the Prophet said them as ordered !
The other "hadeeth" according to Bukhari and company either contradict the Qur'aan in which case they can be safey discarded or are confirmed by the Qur'aan in which case they are redundant anyway and are not really needed. Otherwise one is denying The God's words which tell us that the Qur'aan has EVERY kind of example and contains details of ALL things and nothing has been neglected from the Book relevant to our guidance.
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Salaamun alaykum
I was Pronounced a Murtad 14 years ago in Mosques in my city for daring to Write and Publish as well as Distributing my writing on Hadiths with this Title " Hadiths, The Second Source of Islamic Law, Or is It The main Cause of Muslims Disunity" .
At the time , there were only about 20 of Us Quran aloners so the Local Sunni Imams thought we were a Push Over , but they were to be dis-appointed . They threatened to Kill us if we did not Revert to Sunnah/ Hadiths . I filed a complain to the Police with Intent to take these Sunni Terrorists to Court. You wouldn't believe the Cowardice of these Sone Worshippers , they were in Hiding for days , then they sent some Messengers to negotiate with us if we would "Drop the Charges" because they are Our brothers in Islam . What a Joke .Now I and the Brothers and Sisters here no longer socialise with with them only Visit their Mosques when we want to meet people .
We ( those of us here who follow Quran only ) have never Denounced Hadiths as such , we object however, for the hadiths to be made as One of the Source of Islamic Law besides The Quran. I read hadiths and so do my fellow God alone Muslims here ( where I live ) , there are many good and funny stories in all hadiths just as many good stories in Newspapers, magazines and Books.
So once again I would like to stress that I am not anti hadiths , I just don't believe that the Hadiths should be made as a Supplement to The Quran in Formulating Islamic Law .
Wassalamu' ala manittaba?l hudaa
almarh0m
