confession
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Thanks Tanveer it's a great help.
It's a shame not many people alike are around in person. I go onto this "islamic" chat occassionaly, and there is a person who tries to explain that following hadiths are wrong.. though I guess he goes about it the wrong way (in my opinion). He always gets banned from the room his known as the "hadith hater", "the rejected of the prophets sunnah", "the slanderer" it's sad. Though people don't see what he is trying to convey they just see this hostility. I'm sure if he spoke more eloquently more people would listen.
It's great you have a friend by your side I wish I had that. So far I've only told one person I know of. He isn't very religious I assumed maybe he would consider it after explaining a few things but I was so wrong. Though off course I don't know what the future holds.
Lol that's what I fear marrying someone who totally rejects what I believe, or tries brainwashing the kids with his theories, if I ever have any. It would be so much easier to marry someone with the same perspective though the case is highly unlikely.
I never really had the guts to tell anyone of my beliefs, usually I try see their perspectives by asking "what do you think about hadiths"..
Anyway thank you again for the info and the links
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Peace Sarah,
You are most welcome and thank you for sharing your experiences. Following is another very interesting link about a debate on "hadeeth" which gives points of view of both sides
http//www.e-bacaan.com/artikeli_FinalD0.htm
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I never really thought of it as learning Quran through topics, I guess it would be useful. Besides I've never heard of a Quranic Dictionary, I've heard of a gossary and index terms but they don't have everything, well I don't find them very useful. It's funny that you mention it because I was planning on making sorta like a book; topics and the verses that relate to it.. anyway I'm just lazy and I have slow internet connection it's easier to be spoon fed.
I just wanted some quotes well verses to help me. I don't think I'll be telling my family anytime soon because I'm to scared of the reaction. I would need to be able to quote things by memory without any books or internet in hand before I tell them, otherwise I'll look like a fool.
It's nearly 11pm here I need some rest inshallah I'll take a look at the links tomorrow ) thanks for sharing, thanks for your time )
I really appreciate it
Asalamu alaikum
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Hi Sarah,
in Spain there are muslims that don't deny the hadiths, but they have the same interpretation the Quran only people have in this forum, in general terms at least, as I could verify many times reading articles on their website www.webislam.com, I suppose they pay attention to the hadiths they consider according to the Quran, or with logic, or a similar way, I dion't know.
Perhaps it is better to ignore the hadih narrations as a whole but I have seen there it is possible a 'non-sectarian' interpretation even not rejecting them. I am telling this just so that you know, I am not part of them I am not muslim.
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peace Sarah,
I strongly recommend the following website www.studyQuran.org
It contains a topic index, free Classical Arabic dictionaries, concordance etc. and much more.
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Peace Sarah, all,
Brother Wakas' website is excellent for studying the Qur'aan. Check out project root list (PRL) in it, in addition to all other excellent tools for studying the Qur'aan.
I have also found Dictionary of the Holy Quran by Abdul Mannan Omar very useful and it is a must buy
http//www.amazon.com/Dictionary-Holy-Quran-Abdul-Mannan/dp/0963206796
Some more tools that are useful for researching the Qur'aan (some of them are included in Wakas' website)
http//www.openburhan.com/ob_main_frame.html
http//yaqb.org/
http//quranbrowser.com/
http//quranbrowser.org/
http//www.free-minds.org/quran/PM/I
http//www.qaiu.org/archives/quran/arabic_lexicon_projects/index.html
http//www.islamicity.com/ps/
http//www.textinmotion.com/
http//www.understandquran.com/
http//quran.muslim-web.com/ (Arabic website)
http//thequran.wordpress.com/2006/11/14/msn-quran/
http//www.xrce.xerox.com/competencies/content-analysis/arabic/input/keyboard_input.html
http//www.amazon.com/gp/product/0946621683/sr=1-4/qid=1155120374/ref=sr_1_4/104-4829665-8275134?redirect=true&ie=UTF8&s=books
http//www.amazon.co.uk/Understanding-Quran-Themes-London-Studies/dp/1860646506
Some more verses from the Qur'aan relevant to the hadeeth issue
The Qur'aan has every kind of example relevant to our guidance
3927 And We have given to the people in this Quran from EVERY example, that they may take heed.
1789 And We have displayed/explained to the people in this Quran from EVERY example, but most people refuse to be anything but a rejecter!
Here, The God says that He has explained EVERY KIND OF EXAMPLE for our guidance within the Qur'aan. Thus, when Allah Himself testifies that every kind of example is within the Qur'aan, does the Muslim need to look elsewhere for examples ? In fact, the word "example" by definition means that it is referring to a specific case outlining a general principal.
1689 And We have revealed the Book to you which has the CLEAR EXPLANATION of everything, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit.
There cannot be any words clearer than this. When He says "liKULLI Shai'in" that means EVERYTHING. If the Qur'aan itself is supposed to explain everything, what does it mean to explain the Qur'aan by other books ? In other words, the above verse is saying that there is NOTHING that is not explained by the Qur'aan. The Muslim who says that "not everything is in the Qur'aan", must sit down and contemplate on these verses and reflect on the logical consequences of his statement.
The God explains His verses Himself, so we do not need any other source for their explanation
7518 So when We compile it, you shall follow its compilation.
7519 Then it is for Us to explain it.The God has neglected nothing from the Book, relevant to our guidance
638 We have NEGLECTED NOTHING in the Book; then to their Lord they will be gathered.
The sectarians believe that the Qur'aan is not enough. What will be the believer's answer to the following God's question ?
2951 IS IT NOT ENOUGH FOR THEM that We have revealed to you the Book, which is recited to them ? Most surely there is a mercy in this and a reminder for a people who believe ?
We should not disregard the Qur'aan when it tells us that it is fully detailed, contains detail of all things, has every kind of example, nothing is neglected from it, is the best hadeeth, and not to believe in any hadeeth other than The God's revelations, relevant to our guidance
5677 It is an honourable Quran.
5678 In a protected record.
5679 None can grasp it except those pure.
5680 A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
5681 Are you disregarding this narration?The Messenger will complain on the Last Day
2530 And the messenger said "My Lord, my people have deserted this Quran."
Please note that in 2530, the Messenger does not say that my people have deserted this Qur'aan AND my sunnah/hadeeth.
The only place where Allah talks about Prophet Muhammad's sayings is the following, where He clearly says that the Qur'aan is the saying of the Prophet Muhammad
6940 This is the saying (qawl) of an honourable messenger.
6941 It is not the saying of a poet; rarely do you believe.
6942 Nor the saying of a soothsayer; rarely do you take heed.
6943 A revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
6944 And had he attributed anything falsely to Us.
6945 We would have seized him by the right.
6946 Then, We would have severed his life-line.
6947 None of you would be able to prevent it.What did the Messenger himself follow ?
1015 And when Our clear revelations are recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said "Bring a Quran other than this, or change it!" Say "It is not for me to change it from my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear if I disobey my Lord the retribution of a great day!"
650 Say "I do not say to you that I posses God's treasures, nor do I know the future, nor do I say to you that I am an Angel. I merely follow what is inspired to me." Say "Are the blind and the seer the same? Do you not think?"
7203 And because you do not bring them a sign, they Say "If only you had brought one." Say "I only follow what is inspired to me from my Lord. This is an evidence from your Lord, and a guide and mercy to a people who believe."
469 Say "I am no different from the other messengers, nor do I know what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is inspired to me. I am no more than a clear warner"
In the following verse, what is inspired to him is clearly the Qur'aan
1015 And when Our clear revelations are recited to them, those who do not wish to meet Us said "Bring a Quran other than this, or change it!" Say "It is not for me to change it from my own accord, I merely follow what is inspired to me. I fear if I disobey my Lord the retribution of a great day!"
Could the Prophet have gone against Allah's words when ordered by Him to follow what was inspired to him and make laws according to it ?
10109 And follow what is being inspired to you and be patient until God judges. And He is the best of judges.
The Messenger was ordered to judge the believers only by the Qur'aan
544 And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.
545 And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the wicked.
547 And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the vile ones.
548 And We have sent down to you the Scripture with truth, authenticating what is present of the Scripture and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. For each of you We have made laws, and a structure; and had God willed, He would have made you all one nation, but He tests you with what He has given you; so strive to do good. To God you will return all of you, and He will inform you regarding that in which you dispute.
549 And judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their wishes, and beware lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you. If they turn away, then know that God wants to inflict them with some of their sins; and most of the people are corrupt.In 549, "lest they divert you away from some of what God has sent down to you" clearly shows that he could judge ONLY by the Qur'aan and not his personal wishes.
4105 We have revealed to you the Scripture with truth that you may judge between the people by that which God has shown you, and do not be an advocate for the treacherous.
2213 The people used to be one nation, then God sent the prophets as bearers of good news and warners, and He sent down with them the Scripture with the facts so that they may judge between the people in what they were disputing. But after receiving the clarity, the people disputed in it due to animosity between them. And God guided those who believed with His permission regarding what they disputed in of the truth. And God guides whoever He wishes to a straight path.
323 Did you not see those who were given a portion of the Scripture being invited to God's Scripture to judge between them, then a group of them turns away while they are adverse?
The God places a shield on the disbelievers' heart and deafness in their ears and an invisible barrier between them and the believers, preventing the disbelievers from finding the truth.
1745 And when you read the Quran, We place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier.
1746 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord alone in the Quran, they run away turning their backs in aversion.The God tells us about these people in the following verses
1855 And what prevented the people from believing when the guidance came to them, and to seek forgiveness from their Lord ? Are they waiting for what happened to the people of old to come to them, or that the retribution be brought to them face to face?
1856 And We do not send the messengers except as bearers of good news and warners. But those who reject will argue using falsehood to overshadow the truth with it. And they took My revelations and what they have been warned by as a joke!
1857 And who is more wicked than one who is reminded of his Lord's verses but he turned away from them, and he forgot what his hands had done. We have made veils upon their hearts from understanding them, and a deafness in their ears. And if you invite them to the guidance, they will never be guided. -
Hi Sarah,
in Spain there are muslims that don't deny the hadiths, but they have the same interpretation the Quran only people have in this forum, in general terms at least, as I could verify many times reading articles on their website www.webislam.com, I suppose they pay attention to the hadiths they consider according to the Quran, or with logic, or a similar way, I dion't know.
Perhaps it is better to ignore the hadih narrations as a whole but I have seen there it is possible a 'non-sectarian' interpretation even not rejecting them. I am telling this just so that you know, I am not part of them I am not muslim.
Wow, a Spaniard muslim friend of mine once told me the same thing about North African muslims' approach toward hadiths. I guess it is also one of the factors that make them LESS extreme than muslims in the Middle East.
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Hi Elena )
Well I don't exactly "deny" hadiths.. I believe there is some truth in them (not all of them) there is some with falsehood. Though I make it clear that I don't take hadith as law. The law is in the Quran off course in my beliefs.
It would be really good to study hadith, to distinguish the right from wrong though it would be more fun and beneficial to study Quran.. if I had the ability to study hadith I would though if I was to do that it would help if I had someone doing it with me to motivate me also I probably would need to understand the concept of hadith how it's authenticity is apparently formed; to be able to scrutinize it, I can't do that where I am living I can get a basic ideas from books though I think I would need more than that. I'd need to go overseas most likely. I'm barely allowed outside my house so again I doubt I would be doing it. Another factor is that I would need to understand the Quran well to be able to distinguish things as absolutely ok and absolutely not ok.
Anyway thank you for sharing the thoughts and the link ) I believe everyone has their own perception in religion, everyone tackles it differently some more similar than others but there will always be varying opinions and not all are necessarily wrong (or right for that matter). Anyway so far I feel content with my beliefs I feel I am on the right path. I guess most people do otherwise they wouldn't believe what they believe. So each to their own way and eventually we'll get judged accordingly in the most just way D
Take care )
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Peace Sarah, all,
I also do not deny hadeeth; I believe that all the true hadeeth relevant for our guidance are already in the Qur'aan. All the verses or parts of verses that start with "say" and addressed to Prophet Muhammad become his "hadeeth" because the Prophet said them as ordered !
The other "hadeeth" according to Bukhari and company either contradict the Qur'aan in which case they can be safey discarded or are confirmed by the Qur'aan in which case they are redundant anyway and are not really needed. Otherwise one is denying The God's words which tell us that the Qur'aan has EVERY kind of example and contains details of ALL things and nothing has been neglected from the Book relevant to our guidance.
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Salaamun alaykum
I was Pronounced a Murtad 14 years ago in Mosques in my city for daring to Write and Publish as well as Distributing my writing on Hadiths with this Title " Hadiths, The Second Source of Islamic Law, Or is It The main Cause of Muslims Disunity" .
At the time , there were only about 20 of Us Quran aloners so the Local Sunni Imams thought we were a Push Over , but they were to be dis-appointed . They threatened to Kill us if we did not Revert to Sunnah/ Hadiths . I filed a complain to the Police with Intent to take these Sunni Terrorists to Court. You wouldn't believe the Cowardice of these Sone Worshippers , they were in Hiding for days , then they sent some Messengers to negotiate with us if we would "Drop the Charges" because they are Our brothers in Islam . What a Joke .Now I and the Brothers and Sisters here no longer socialise with with them only Visit their Mosques when we want to meet people .
We ( those of us here who follow Quran only ) have never Denounced Hadiths as such , we object however, for the hadiths to be made as One of the Source of Islamic Law besides The Quran. I read hadiths and so do my fellow God alone Muslims here ( where I live ) , there are many good and funny stories in all hadiths just as many good stories in Newspapers, magazines and Books.
So once again I would like to stress that I am not anti hadiths , I just don't believe that the Hadiths should be made as a Supplement to The Quran in Formulating Islamic Law .
Wassalamu' ala manittaba?l hudaa
almarh0m
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Peace all,
I?ve come to a point where I feel that I hate suppressing myself for the sake of others. I hate how I can?t openly express my views without getting a hostile remark. I know it is to be expected and maybe a hostile remark is no big deal though when it comes from family.. it?s kinda hurtful.
What made me come to this topic was an incident that happened today. I have holidays ATM so no uni, my Fridays are freer than ever. My family go to the mosque, even I used to when I had off days but ever since these holidays started I haven?t been going to the mosque. Today would be 5 weeks, 5 consecutive weeks I have ?missed? the Friday congregational prayer.
I knew it would be a big deal that I haven?t been going to the mosque, so I thought I?ll ?pretend? to sleep in, so it?ll be so late they can?t be bothered waiting for me. But then my mum calls out ?Sarah are you still asleep? I thought great.. I better get up I mean open the door. So I thought no problem I still need to do my exercise plus have brekky. I got up I made scrambled eggs, my mum says ?get dressed and come with us? I didn?t respond to her.
I finished eating and was washing the dishes my dad was still eating breakfast and he said ?hurry up and get dress? I was so scared to say I don?t wanna go.. anyway I like whispered it lol (What an idiot yeh? Who the hell is scared of their dad?) I thought if he heard anything he might say what did you say or just ignore it. Anyway he went outside for a smoke..
my mum comes up to me and says ?forget the dishes go get dressed?
I tell her ?I don?t want to go?
Mum replies ?But you will see people, and people will see you and it?ll be nice you can listen to stories and see people?. I hardly go out so she prob thinks it?s a treat I can ?see people? but really the seeing is more about ?hey this is my daughter, any good potential muslim boys over here??
I said ?yes but I don?t want to?
Mum replies ?as you wish?
My dad comes through the back and says angrily ?if you CAN?T go why am I waiting for you?. Emphasis on can?t as in he assumed I had my periods.
He walks through the lounge room and my mum is like it?s not that she can?t she just doesn?t want to.
My dad comes back and yells out angrily ?is there harm in worship? Is there harm in praying??
I reply ?no?
My dad replies sarcastically ?there?s harm in worship isn?t there? It?s haram to pray isn?t it? For a long long long time you haven?t been going to the mosque on Friday?
I didn?t say anything. He kept going on
?you get to see people, listen to something that benefits you but no you wanna stay home stay home locked in 4 walls? then he stormed off.Before, the second week I missed Friday prayer my bro made a comment ?you should go to the mosque if you can?. We?ve had a few discussions on religion and they don?t end in the greatest form.. Even my niece says ?how come you don?t pray anymore, why don?t you go to the mosque?
See now I?m worried that my parents even my bro?s are going to notice I?m not doing prayers and that they?re going to give me crap.. I just thought if I associate less with the community maybe when I discuss my views it won?t be such a shock.
But I think I have no chance of that, it will always be a shock but my dad was basically skitzing it over not going to the mosque, imagine he knew my views. I don?t even think my views could even be discussed. I wouldn?t get the chance without their emotions swelling up into God knows what.
I just feel sad, worried and scared.. I think maybe I should just go with the flow, actually I mean just be what they want... I have future plans anyway I doubt I?d be living here for long. So just keep peace, let my mind stress less. but I feel so bad to conceal truth but I worry for my own well being. Yet while I worry about my own well being I?m actually harming my own mental state by this frustration but I think, I?ve kept on trucking along this long a lil while longer prob won?t kill me.
Anyway Friday prayer hasn?t finished, my other bro will come past. so God knows I haven?t heard the last of it. I just wish things were easier but who doesn?t?
What would you do if you were me?
P.S sorry for the long post I just felt the need to say something
Peace )
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O you who believe, do not ally yourselves even with your parents and your siblings, if they prefer disbelieving over believing. Those among you who ally themselves with them are transgressing.
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peace Sarah, all,
I have known you a long time (well, relatively) from this forum, and I have definitely seen you grow in strength and knowledge, so it doesn't come as a surprise you took the step you did. The stronger one becomes, the chains that shackle them become less of a burden, and over time, heaviness is replaced with lightness, until they are in a position to free themselves. It may have been a small step, but sometimes when you feel like the world is against you, or when you are starting out on a journey, these initial and smallest steps are the hardest to take, but in order to proceed, take them we must. So, well done, I think you did the right thing.
To be fair, it wasn't as bad as you thought right? ;D
If I can offer some advice, which I'm sure you already know, is that be gentle, thoughtful, cool, not hostile, and give out warmth and righteousness to your family and those beyond. Rise above. You see, when others fear something, they may make a fuss, oppose, object, but reciprocating with hostility/hate only fuels this fire/reaction, but goodness/love/coolness does the opposite, it helps put the fire out.
I am reminded of the wisdom
"The oak tree is mighty, yet it will be destroyed by a mighty wind because it resists the elements; the bamboo bends with the wind, and by bending, survives."You can bend and sway, and be flexible, but as long as you dont lose your roots, you will continue to grow, even after the most violent of storms.
And all storms pass, sooner or later
