Hajj means Annual Global Debate--Explanation using Tasreef/Crossreference
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Peace bro "Arnold",
The article is very well except im having a problem how to understand this verse then
Say, "My Contact Prayers (Salat), my worship practices, my life and my death, are all devoted absolutely to GOD alone, the Lord of the universe.
GOD Bless! -
Salaam Jonny, it becomes clear when we translate Salat correctly
Salat as As-sala meant Middle of the back, A horse that is second in a race and is catching up on the first horse, Following closely, Dependence, Adherence, Attachment, Contact, Bond. These meanings can all be found in ancient dictionaries. If we approach the Quranic Goal to be only acknowledging Allah, to be a religious Book focussed on only acknowledging Allah, then it is logical Salat means Prayer. But since it is clear WE are the focus of the Quran, then the meaning becomes totaly different. See
2094 Aaron said, "O Son of my mother! Don't get mad at me, nor treat me harshly. I feared that you would say, You have let the Children of Israel divide into parties and sects."
The Prophet of Allah preferred unity of his people above the right concept of Allah. And thus unity of mankind to create the best society is the goal of Revelation. Believing in One God is creating the correct view on Reality and creates unity. But it is not about pleasing God.
The meaning of Salat is explained in
2441 Do you not realize that Allah, He it is Whom all beings in the heavens and the earth glorify, and the birds, with their wings outspread, as they fly in columns. All of them know their SALAT and TASBEEH (mission and strife). Allah is Aware of what they do to fulfill His Plan.
Tasbeeh means To Strive Hard, To go on a Quest/Mission, To Take Long Strides. Salat's main meaning is To Follow Closely/remain attached.
So in order of the verse, all beings knows what to follow closely to strive hard on their quest, they know their Salat and Tasbeeh.
What do animals follow? Their instinct which tells them how to work the Laws of Nature in the best way so to become the strongest and multiply.
We as humans don't have an instinct on a dominant level. So to follow the Laws of Nature, we must observe them closely. But there are also many Laws we can't observe through Scientific Research. These Laws are explained to us through Revelation. Revelations are Instincts for Mankind to follow voluntarely.
So Salat means to Follow the Divine Laws of Nature and Revelation so we can know how to strive hard on our Quest and Mission. There is a Prayer mentioned, which is always in a gathering/Jumaah, see 4102-105. The prostration and kneeling/bowing, sujood and rukuh, are both meant symbolically and literal.
So now let's translate the verse again
6162 Say,"All my following of the Divine Laws, the ways to discharge them/practice them, my living and my dying are for God alone, the Lord of the Worlds.
The Divine Laws of the Quran are meant to establish a Divine System, the Deen on Earth, so following the Divine Laws, is creating and upholding the Deen. Thus Salat=following the Divine Laws=creating and sustaining the Deen.
And thus you will end up with this meaning
6162 Say, "All my duties to the Divine System, the ways to discharge them, my living and my dying are for God alone, the Lord of the Worlds.So to understand Hajj as Debate Conference fits exactly with 6162 as it is part of creating and sustaining the Deen on Earth. Worship in Islam is done through following His Laws, not through rituals.
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Peace Arnold,
Here are some problems
The Quran says most poeple will not believe but you say that all people will eventually come to believe.
The Quran says that those who believe that hell is temporary (in your scenario war and misery on earth) are deluded in their faith.
Umm means also means a reference point or what someone goes back to. It does not always mean mother. Arabic's words have different meanings in different contexts.
You say that the Quran is a constitution, and is made so that its law can be applied to all people when the Quran calls mankind to become believers and those loyal to God and that the believers and loyal to God are those who rule by God's book. Not all mankind.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Anwer,
No these are not problems in my thinking, these are problems in how you think I interpretate things. Let's explain my view a bit better
The Quran says most poeple will not believe but you say that all people will eventually come to believe.
The Quran says also that eventually people will flock to the Deen and also that it will prevail over all other systems of life.
The Quran says that those who believe that hell is temporary (in your scenario war and misery on earth) are deluded in their faith.
You have 2 states of Hell, one here on Earth, expressed in misery of societies, as for example, and you have a state of existence called Hell in the Next Life. Also the people who believe Hell is temporarely, believe this in a state of denial/kafr, and believe they can come out of Hell while still being in this state of denial/kafr, this is why they will never come out of it.
Umm means also means a reference point or what someone goes back to. It does not always mean mother. Arabic's words have different meanings in different contexts.
I know that Umm also means that, it is more the discussion what we both feel fits the context better.
You say that the Quran is a constitution, and is made so that its law can be applied to all people when the Quran calls mankind to become believers and those loyal to God and that the believers and loyal to God are those who rule by God's book. Not all mankind.
I believe the Quran is meant to be used by the believers, and that mankind will accept them as the Law makers on Earth, it doesn't immediately mean they believe the Laws are Divine, but they will see that they are the best for the societies.
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Peace
Arnold Yasin Salat as As-sala meant Middle of the back, A horse that is second in a race and is catching up on the first horse, Following closely,
I have seen you using this example of horse following another for salat even in other posts where in the Quran can I find the cross reference ?
Arnold Yasin These meanings can all be found in ancient dictionaries.
In which periods were these ancient dictionaries written. Are they pre Quranic ?
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Salaam Arnold
you wrote
But as I have told, these are all man-made ideas on what Allah demands. Allah says in the Quran that WE are the focus.
2094 Aaron said, "O Son of my mother! Don't get mad at me, nor treat me harshly. I feared that you would say, ?You have let the Children of Israel divide into parties and sects." (Moses accepted this explanation since sectarianism is no less a crime than idol worship in any form. Seizing the beard and head pertains to harsh interrogation 7150).
In fact Moses did not accept this explanation. In a following verse 2097, he showed Aaron what he should have done, and proved him wrong, as there was no division amongst banu Israel Moses burned the calf and scattered its particles in the sea.
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Of course he destroyed it, but he could have only destroyed after he showed that this idol was falsehood. People accepted it being destroyed, as otherwise they could have simply rebelled aginst it and killed Moses, but they didn't. This shows that Moses convinced them through logical arguments that their idol was false. The verse doesn't say he disagreed with Aaron, it only says that he destroyed the idol. The destruction is because the people changed themselves and accepted the idol being false. Believing in One Creator is accepting Reality.
When Abraham destroyed the idols, his people still not believed him and persecuted him. Moses remained his status of leadership, this could only be maintained through violence or that he convinced his people. Since violence is out of the question, it means he convinced his people through logic. The Quran is full with logical statements on the image of God.
So Unity of his people was put on top, so he could reform them again to the correct view. Otherwise he would have lost his people and all would be in vain. The people of Moses was liberated so they would be no longer slaves, they were not freed so that they could believe in God alone, this belief can also be sustained while being slaves.
Unity and righteousness of a society is thus the main point for Revelation...
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No these are not problems in my thinking, these are problems in how you think I interpretate things. Let's explain my view a bit better
Quote from progod on Yesterday at 043120 AM
The Quran says most poeple will not believe but you say that all people will eventually come to believe.The Quran says also that eventually people will flock to the Deen and also that it will prevail over all other systems of life.
Quote from progod on Yesterday at 043120 AM
The Quran says that those who believe that hell is temporary (in your scenario war and misery on earth) are deluded in their faith.You have 2 states of Hell, one here on Earth, expressed in misery of societies, as for example, and you have a state of existence called Hell in the Next Life. Also the people who believe Hell is temporarely, believe this in a state of denial/kafr, and believe they can come out of Hell while still being in this state of denial/kafr, this is why they will never come out of it.
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So which is right. idhaa jaaoo ilaa deen afwaajan can also mean If and not when.
Secondly, it says when/if people enter God's religion in crowds. That does not mean all men. That just means alot of people will, or MIGHT. -
Where do you get your idea of two Hells. The Quran only speaks of one and says that it is eternal.
As for those who questioned you about Salaa or Salan. It means the hind part or hock of a horse or any other animal, but especially the horse. From which derived sallaa as to follow right behind. It is like saying 'to hock' or 'to hind' and comes from the context of racing horses but can be applied to following closely or adhering to anything. As for bond. I still doubt this meaning. I have never seen it in any Arabic lexicon, in english/arabic or arabic/arabic.
Godbless,
Anwar -
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peace Pimp, I have to agree with Ayman. This idea of a global debate seems kinda silly. It's too optimistic and too idealistic. Even if there are people from all over the world who want to come and have a debate in a certain location, what will be the outcome of it? Will anyone actually learn?
But if that is what Hajj is, then this forum is your global debate, isn't it? I think the internet makes it very easy. Instead of an annual global debate, we have a constant global debate. -
Peace,
The Quran says that most will not be momin, those that are convinced. I believe that not everyone will believe the Quran is from God, but I do believe they agree with its principals. Just like in Holland we have a Christian government, most people in Holland are not Christians, but they certainly agree with the Christians ideals. The same will be with the Quranic ideals being taken over by non-Muslim countries.
And one of my beliefs is also that Mankind will be one again, although this lays far in the future. First Islamic States will reform themselves, then eventually non-Muslim countries will accept them as arbiters, just like the UN-conventions is now. Hajj is indeed meant for many things. And our discussions are part of them. Hajj is for improvement of society on all levels.
As for Salat, I have studied dictionaries on this, and many ideas can be attained from it. I believe the 'following of the Divine Laws' is the best understanding, but life is a never-ending research...
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Peace,
Very noble but it sounds like this is coming from your hopes and dreams and not from the Quran. Secondly where to you see God's laws in Salat. It one thing to say that it means 'to follow' and another to say that it means 'to follow God's laws.' Don't you think you are adding to waht is said and being a little fanciful.
Godbless,
Anwar -
933 He it is Who has sent His Messenger with Guidance and the True Religion (DEEN = The System of Life), that He may cause it to prevail over all religions and systems of life, even though the idolaters may detest it. (931-33, 1448, 1848, 4828, 619).
3110 (Since you have been empowered by the Qur?an), you are indeed the best suited Community that has been raised up for the good of mankind. You shall enjoin the Right, by example and close the doors to Wrong, by example, since you have conviction in Allah (and accept His Final Word as the Criterion of Right and Wrong 34. The Qur?an educates you on the Permanent Moral Value System and distinguishes clearly what the otherwise vague terms of ?right? and ?wrong?, and ?good? and ?evil? would mean). Now if the People of the Scripture had attained this kind of belief, it would have been for their own good. Some of them do embrace belief, while most of them continue to drift away.
I believe this is the Message of the Quran, and I don't go waste my time in dreaming. As for Salat is following Allah's Laws, this is explained through 2441. Allah uses the Quran to explain His definitions.
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Peace,
You seem very convinced. Almost so much so that you seem to me somewhat unapproachable. But despite that can you explain what this means
Allah uses the Quran to explain His definitions.
This doesn't seem to make sense to me. Could you explain this to me without being condescending (as I see this coming next, as I'm sure you are quite annoyed with me).
It seems you are a followr of the QXP project. Very good. I think it is a good work, though I definetely see some unnecessary embellishments in in, all the same.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace
Some birds fly in formations;mostly in ?V? formations. It helps to conserve energy of the group (the wing muscles get less tired and also the heart rate drops) and increases flying efficiency of migratory birds flying thousands of miles to escape harsh winters. Also the formation helps communication between the group and if a bird is lost it will be easily noticeable. In a group its possible there can be experienced birds helping in the navigation maybe with the help of sun and the stars. The lead bird keeps changing since it gets more tired than the rest and is replaced by another bird in the tail. Formations are actually a fascinating thing and with much science involved and it is much more than mere following.
Salaam Anwar
Can you please do us a favor and explain verse 2441, for us to get a better understanding whether the verse communicates that salat is following closely.
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peace,
You seem very convinced. Almost so much so that you seem to me somewhat unapproachable.
Because I can answer the people's question that shows I have thought out things suddenly I'm almost unapproachable. You are a person that makes a lot of assumptions, judgements, that are really unfounded and based on emotions it seems. You predict my future behaviour and so on. No dear Anwer, I'm not annoyed by you, only you sadden me a bit with such unneccessary assumptions that are unfounded. You reflect to much on yourself it seems, maybe you would be annoyed in this situation, or you want me to be annoyed. Whatever it is, your ideas about me are wrong.
Since when are questions creating problems with people? It only makes me sharper in my thinking, and it always brings up issues that you haven't thought before, so these discussions are priceless.
About the Quran explaining its own definitions, for example the Will of Allah. Human will is decided by its needs and wants, we have a need, hunger, so our will is to go eat, when we have fulfilled this need, a new need is formed and thus a new will. God has no needs, so the definition of Will we know does not apply to Him, He must explain His Will in the Quran, what He did in all Revelations, so we as humans can comprehend His Will so we can follow it in the best way.
See my article
http//19.org/index.php?arnold
It seems you are a follower of the QXP project. Very good. I think it is a good work, though I definetely see some unnecessary embellishments in in, all the same.
I don't follow it, I'm part of it ) I run the website, forum and work on QXP3 together with Dr.Shabbir. In about a month the whole website is changed, it will contain a huge library of online books of several Muslim and non-Muslim authors, dictionaries and lectures and so on. And the new version of QXP will be released in June InshAllah. This version is very much improvement, and we have tried to seperate the Tasreef-tafseer/crossreference-explanation from the translation of the verses.
God bless
Arnold Yasin
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Because I can answer the people's question that shows I have thought out things suddenly I'm almost unapproachable. You are a person that makes a lot of assumptions, judgements, that are really unfounded and based on emotions it seems. You predict my future behaviour and so on. No dear Anwer, I'm not annoyed by you, only you sadden me a bit with such unneccessary assumptions that are unfounded. You reflect to much on yourself it seems, maybe you would be annoyed in this situation, or you want me to be annoyed. Whatever it is, your ideas about me are wrong.
Since when are questions creating problems with people? It only makes me sharper in my thinking, and it always brings up issues that you haven't thought before, so these discussions are priceless.
There's no way you got all that from the little bit I said. I only said
You seem very convinced. Almost so much so that you seem to me somewhat unapproachable. But despite that can you explain what this means
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Allah uses the Quran to explain His definitions.This doesn't seem to make sense to me. Could you explain this to me without being condescending (as I see this coming next, as I'm sure you are quite annoyed with me).
It seems you are a followr of the QXP project. Very good. I think it is a good work, though I definetely see some unnecessary embellishments in in, all the same.
Seems you might be a little biased against me. But that is okay. In the end it seems my assumption was right. Don't be picky about whether you are a follower or a part of it. Do you really have to pick an argument for such a thing. Or is it that you assume that everything I have to say is negative, or a negative criticism. Please bruh, understand that it is not like that.
I don't follow it, I'm part of it I run the website, forum and work on QXP3 together with Dr.Shabbir. In about a month the whole website is changed, it will contain a huge library of online books of several Muslim and non-Muslim authors, dictionaries and lectures and so on. And the new version of QXP will be released in June InshAllah. This version is very much improvement, and we have tried to seperate the Tasreef-tafseer/crossreference-explanation from the translation of the verses.
Congratulations. I commend you for the effort. Though let me repeat what I said in previous email. I think that QXP is bit embellished and is developed off of that fact that it is an INTERPRETATION of the Quran. Honestly, I like Quranic Teachings more. That is not a slap in the face though, please don't take it like that. I think that QXP is a needed project and should an important step for many of the world Muslims towards just following the Quran.
An important part of studying the Quran is following all of it, and that implies re-evaluations of certain passages that many have an obvious meaning by itself, but our understandings must see it through a meaning more appropriate to that other passage that complements it.
I know those passages you mentioned and I reviewed them personally. However, you have not dealt with what seems to be an obvioius contradiction (when using your understanding of those passages) with other passages.
I honestly wanted to understand how YOU process these passages together, istead of just using a quote from QXP which wasn't even really that appropriate, nor did it refer to the Arabic used to clarify your understanding. So instead of getting defensive, which it seems you are, please deal with the issue with calm. I respect your ability to think, as God gave you the mind you have but I'd really like to see your work (if you understand what I mean) especially as it concerns those verses that say that the majority of people will not believe, and will not be faithful to God. Yet you believe that they will follow the laws of the Quran. What is your logic?
Please I see you getting distracted a bit, so could we stick to the topic.
Godbless,
AnwarQuranic teachings is
http//www.quranicteachings.co.uk/index.htm
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Salaam Anwer,
There's no way you got all that from the little bit I said. I only said......Seems you might be a little biased against me. But that is okay. In the end it seems my assumption was right. Don't be picky about whether you are a follower or a part of it. Do you really have to pick an argument for such a thing. Or is it that you assume that everything I have to say is negative, or a negative criticism. Please bruh, understand that it is not like that.
hmmm, it seems you forgot that your first post on this thread was assuming I had potentials of becoming a tyrant, then I was dreaming, then I'm almost unapproachable, and then you are predicting I could be talking to you in a condencending way. These were all assumptions made up before I even posted anything really. And now you believe I'm biased against you, which you again assume you got right. I really don't know what to say Anwer, your answers are a bit weird to say the least. Whatever I say is turned around by you into another assumption.
I had already answered parts of your question throughout this thread.
"The Quran says that most will not be momin, those that are convinced. I believe that not everyone will believe the Quran is from God, but I do believe they agree with its principals. Just like in Holland we have a Christian government, most people in Holland are not Christians, but they certainly agree with the Christians ideals. The same will be with the Quranic ideals being taken over by non-Muslim countries.And one of my beliefs is also that Mankind will be one again, although this lays far in the future. First Islamic States will reform themselves, then eventually non-Muslim countries will accept them as arbiters, just like the UN-conventions is now. Hajj is indeed meant for many things. And our discussions are part of them. Hajj is for improvement of society on all levels."
I will write an article about this subject in the future, to explain my ideas better and to clear up if they contradict with the Quran.
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Peace "progod",
You said amongst other things....it is an INTERPRETATION of the Quran. Honestly, I like Quranic Teachings more..."
JK- This statement is an obvious oxymoron. Every approach or understanding of the Quran is lastly an interpretation. You have to INTERPRET the Quran in a certain way in order to derive teachings from it. It all depends on how you uinderstand those terms which the Quran uses. Bro Arnold as far as ive analysed interprets the Quranic terms by employing the unbiased scientific method. He instead of referring to biased Mullahs who are dogmatic with their understandings, refers to classic Arabic dictionaries which state almost all the various uses of different terms as made by various Arabic communities through the generations, connects the similar topics stated in the Quran at avrious places, takes into account grammar and context, all which contributed to a rational understanding of the Quran. GOD Bless!
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Peace,
It is not an oxymoron. It is actually a redudancy. What you said is exactly right about studying the Quran. We all must interpret it. I was just reminding our brother Arnold that when he quotes from QXP that is not the same as quoting the Quran, and that he should also refer to those other verses which seem to be contradicting his interpretation. Thank you for trying to help.
Godbless,
Anwar