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  4. Physical Preparation and Proof that women should NOT pray Salaat when bleeding.

Physical Preparation and Proof that women should NOT pray Salaat when bleeding.

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  • I Offline
    I Offline
    ImamQuranonly
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    As-Salaamu Alaikum Forum,

    This is another point of importance in reference to As-Salaat. Allah has given the believer specific guidelines to observe and obey when performing this function. Some are very direct, others are obtained through connection of understanding. Allah has given us the Book to reflect upon its meanings. Everything is not written down in bullet form for us so that perhaps we will engage our intellects and understand some of the higher principals, knowledge and wisdom that are connected to the "rituals" that Allah may want us to perform. Again as I have mentioned before, a "ritual" or act of religious worship, is a function that is designed to also perserve knowledge.

    I hope this helps and benefits someone, Allah willing. Looking forward to any comments, etc.

    As-Salaamu Alaikum peace

    1. PHYSICAL PREPARATION FOR; OR UNREADINESS FOR AS-SALAAT

    We will begin with one of the ayah used in the last section, 443, on how Allah tells us to be physically prepared for As-Salaat. We will use three ayah that we are aware of that deal with the aspect of physical preparedness for As-Salaat. Several key words such as ?ghusl? and ?tahharah? in their various grammatical forms for usage will be pointed out to denote the guidance given to the believer.

    Ghasala verb form I ~ to wash

    b) impf. act. (yaghtasilu)

    {43}

    Transliteration Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo la taqraboo alssalata waantum sukara hatta taAAlamoo ma taqooloona wala junuban illa AAabiree sabeelin hatta taghtasiloo wa-in kuntum marda aw AAala safarin aw jaa ahadun minkum mina algha-iti aw lamastumu alnnisaa falam tajidoo maan fatayammamoo saAAeedan tayyiban faimsahoo biwujoohikum waaydeekum inna Allaha kana AAafuwwan ghafooran
    Literal You, you those who believed, do not approach the prayers and you are intoxicated, until you know what you are saying, and nor distant from God/impure, except crossing a road/way, until you wash yourselves with water, and if you were sick/diseased or on a long distance travel, or any of you came from the safe and hidden depression in ground used for human discharge (toilet) or you touched repeatedly/touched and felt repeatedly (could mean had intercourse with) the women, so you did not find water, so wipe your hands and face with dust, pure/good dust, so wipe with your faces and your hands, that God was/is often forgiving/pardoning, forgiving.
    O ye who believe! Approach not prayers with a mind befogged, until ye can understand all that ye say,- nor in a state of ceremonial impurity (Except when travelling on the road), until after washing your whole body. If ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands. For Allah doth blot out sins and forgive again and again.

    The important aspects of this ayat regarding physical preparation for As-Salaat can be pointed out to be those of physical purity. In this ayat, Allah gives us the command to ?taghtasiloo?, or to ?wash? if we are in a state of impurity, except when traveling; before approaching As-Salaat. ?How to wash? is not yet explained to the believer, but will be done so by Allah in another ayat. This ayat continues with the command to ?tayammamoo?, or to use clean sand, earth, or dust to wipe your faces and your hands with if, you are on a journey, have used the bathroom, or you have been in contact with women, and you can find no water.

    c) impv. (ighsil)

    {6}

    Transliteration Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha qumtum ila alssalati faighsiloo wujoohakum waaydiyakum ila almarafiqi waimsahoo biruoosikum waarjulakum ila alkaAAbayni wa-in kuntum junuban faittahharoo wa-in kuntum marda aw AAala safarin aw jaa ahadun minkum mina algha-iti aw lamastumu alnnisaa falam tajidoo maan fatayammamoo saAAeedan tayyiban faimsahoo biwujoohikum waaydeekum minhu ma yureedu Allahu liyajAAala AAalaykum min harajin walakin yureedu liyutahhirakum waliyutimma niAAmatahu AAalaykum laAAallakum tashkuroona
    Literal You, you those who believed, if you started/got up to the prayers, so wash with water your faces, and your hands to the elbows, and rub/wipe with your heads and your feet to the two joints/ankle bones, and if you wereimpure/unclean, so be purified/cleaned, and if you were sick/diseased or on (a) journey/trip/voyage or one of you came from the safe hidden depression in the ground (toilet), or you touched and felt repeatedly the women, so you did not find water, so wipe your hands and face with dust good/pure dust, so rub/wipe with your faces and your hands from it, God does not want to make/put on you strain/hardship, and but He wants to purify you mentally and physically and to complete (E) His blessing on you, maybe/perhaps you thank/be grateful.
    O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles. If ye are in a state of ceremonial impurity, bathe your whole body. But if ye are ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from offices of nature, or ye have been in contact with women, and ye find no water, then take for yourselves clean sand or earth, and rub therewith your faces and hands, Allah doth not wish to place you in a difficulty, but to make you clean, and to complete his favour to you, that ye may be grateful.

    This ayat is more specific in that Allah tells us exactly how to make ?ghusl? to prepare physically for As-Salaat. The first command is ?faghsiloo?, or ?wash? your faces. Continuing in that command is the order to also ?wash? your hands to the elbows, which includes your forearms obviously. Then Allah tells the believers ?wamsaHoo?, or to rub or wipe clean our heads and feet up to the ankles.

    Allah gives us a new command here for the state of ?junub?, also termed ceremonial impurity; which is ?faT-Tah-haroo?, or to bath your whole body. This command is for any believer that is in a state of ?junnub?, i.e. one that necessitates ?tah-haroo?, or bathing completely.

    Allah again completes and restates His Mercy upon us by stating that if we are ill, on a journey, have relieved ourselves by nature, or have been in contact with women and don?t find water to perform the above functions; we are commanded ?fatay-yam-mamoo?, or to clean with sand, earth or dust our faces and hands before starting As-Salaat. Allah tells us the He gives us this Mercy because He does not want to make the Deen difficult on us, He wants to purify or cleanse us, and that He wants to complete His Blessings on us so that maybe we will become grateful!

    Tahara verb form I ~ to be or become clean or pure

    b) impf. act. (yaThuru)

    Tahhara verb form II ~ to purify, to cleanse. (n. vb.) purification, cleansing. (pcple. act.) one who purifies or cleanses. (pcple. pass.) purified, clean.

    b) impf. act. (yuTahhiru)

    taTahhara verb form V ~ to be purified; to cleanse oneself, to keep oneself clean. (pcple. act.) one who cleanses himself.

    a) perf. act. (taTahharna)

    c) impv. (iTTahar for TaTahhar)

    d) pcple. act. (mutaTahhir and muTTahir)

    {222}

    Transliteration Wayas-aloonaka AAani almaheedi qul huwa athan faiAAtaziloo alnnisaa fee almaheedi wala taqraboohunna hatta yathurna fa-itha tatahharna fa/toohunna min haythu amarakumu Allahu inna Allaha yuhibbu alttawwabeena wayuhibbu almutatahhireena
    Literal And they ask/question you about the menstruation, say "It is mild harm, so separate/withdraw the women in the menstruation, and do not approach them (F) until they be cleaned/purified, so if they became cleaned/purified, so come to them (F), from where/when God ordered you, that God loves/likes the repentant, and He loves/likes the pure/clean.
    They ask thee concerning women's courses. Say They are a hurt and a pollution So keep away from women in their courses, and do not approach them until they are clean. But when they have purified themselves, ye may approach them in any manner, time, or place ordained for you by Allah. For Allah loves those who turn to Him constantly and He loves those who keep themselves pure and clean.

    This ayat is important to physical preparedness before As-Salaat because of it?s implication for women. This ayat tells men not to approach women during their menstrual cycles or post birth bleeding, ?Al-MaHeeD?; until they have cleansed or purified themselves thereof, ?yathurna?. And when they have cleansed or purified themselves, ?ta-Tah-harna?, then men can approach their wives in the ways approved of by Allah. This is very important because it connects the state of ?Al-MaHeeD?, or menstruation and post birth bleeding, as one necessitating ?tah-hara? or cleansing and purification. Allah has told us in the last ayat given, 56, that we should not approach As-Salaat in a state necessitating ?tah-hara?. So this establishes from the Qur?an that women are exempted from As-Salaat as long as they are in a state of ?Al-MaHeed? as a Mercy to them from Allah!

    An important point needs to be made here about this special Mercy given to women by Allah. It specifically deals with the state of bleeding dealing with the womb and the birthing function of women. This is the method by which Allah has chosen to continue the chain of human life on earth. The wombs are told to be reverenced in Sura 4 ayat 1. Allah shows us how He has reverenced the wombs of women and their importance by giving them a special permission to not have to perform As-Salaat because of this state. This does not in any way denote a ?defiency? in a female?s religion as is commonly stated or believed. That would clearly be against the Qur?an, since Allah has told us to reverence the wombs that bore us. Also the word for the womb itself, ?Al-ArHaam?, comes from the word ?RaHma?, which means mercy. ?RaHma? is the root word of the two most used attributes of Allah, Ar-RaHmaan and Ar-RaHeem!

    To be continued.....Allah willing

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    • R Offline
      R Offline
      Roshan
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Peace Imam Quran Only

      Your posting is a good example of what many Muslims do, probably without realising it. They take other sources of law as their primary source and then try to use the Quran to 'back-justify' what they have found in other books.

      The Quran does not say that menstruating women cannot carry out salat, but other books do.

      Roshan

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      • H Offline
        H Offline
        honor
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Salam ImamQuranOnly~

        Very nice translation so far..I do have some questions though, that maybe you can help to answer. But first let me explain my point of view of the subject, as I am a woman. I think that it is true, that us women should not approach prayers unclean, meaning during menstration...UNLESS, we have fully bathed. My perception of this, is that it is similiar to sex, in the sense that the ayat regarding prayers while unclean from sex, asks those who had sex to first bathe, tqsal, rather than just wudu. So, my impression is that us women cannot just make wudu, but must bathe completely, thus bathing and cleaning our private parts before prayer. Where as wudu, would not clean our private parts. Also, I agree that we are not allowed to have penetrable sex with our husbands during our menstration. I beleive God condoned this, as to save us from harm. As women we are not a pollute, nor are we dirty, or even the term unlcean gives a negative conotation to our menstrating; but because we are physically bleeding, we are at risk and risking others of disease. Blood borne pathogens such asHIV, Tuberculosis, Hepatits etc, are all transmitted through blood, and I think god, wanted to give us a responsibility to guard ourselves and protect others by not sharing our blood in this manner.

        So my conclusion is A woman should never and is not allowed to have sex with her husband while on a period. Second, A woman can pray and attend mosque and hajj on a period, but only while in a state of purity; such be fitted as making a full tqsal. (completely bathed).

        So now,...my question is do you agree with what my conclusion is? And also, I was wondering...

        If I wanted to have sex all the time with my husband at any given moment, do I have to soak my entire head of hair eachtime after when I perform tqsal? Because since it seems very difficult to constantly have my hair wet, I was in the past with my husband, just showering and washing from face to toes, and then getting my palms wet, and running them over my hair, rather than soaking my entire head in water. what do you think?

        Honor

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        • J Offline
          J Offline
          jonny_k
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Peace all,
          As far as ive read IQO's article i can say tht his arguments were entirely from the Quran Alonr by linking various Quranic verses which sure is the correct method of analysis. At first i doidnt like it BUT as he states also it is a Mercy from GOD, not something degrading. Ive heard also that during their menses the mental state of women also changes i.e. becomes more emotional than usual. In this condition i beleive it is better if a woman does not sign a contract or take an oath(also a meaning of salat) which she might later regret. This understanding infact also prevents the misunderstanding of another verse of the Quran namely 2282. This verse has often been misinterpreted to mean tht during financial transactions its two women against one man BUT someone here on the forum clarified this in his article stating there GOD means TO CALL TWO WOMEN TO THE APPOINTMENT, the reason being tht women have this issue of menses whilst men dont and if one has tht or other home related probs at least one is able to appear. Again nothing degrading and seems to add up perfectly. GOD Bless!

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          • I Offline
            I Offline
            ImamQuranonly
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            Peace Imam Quran Only

            Your posting is a good example of what many Muslims do, probably without realising it. They take other sources of law as their primary source and then try to use the Quran to 'back-justify' what they have found in other books.

            The Quran does not say that menstruating women cannot carry out salat, but other books do.

            Roshan

            As-Salaamu Alaikum Roshan,

            I understand your concerns and points of view. Obviously I don't agree with them. When I accept to follow the Quran only as my guidance from Allah in written form, that is what I did. Every conclusion that I have come to, whether correct or incorrect because Allah knows best, has been based only on what I have verified MYSELF from Quran.

            I am fully aware before your statement that the Quran does not say directly that women should not pray when menstruating or during post delivery bleeding. There are many things that the Quran does not say "directly" to those who have not comprehended the full message. If your position is that only what the Quran says "point blank" so to speak is accepted, then you will miss the entire "spirit" of the Quran and its continous revealing of guidance to believers. The Quran needs to be "contemplated" on because Allah has made the message difficult for those who do not approach it in the right manner.

            If you follow the next post, I will try to explain in more detail why Allah has given the permission, as a mercy to women, to not have to pray during their menses or post delivery bleeding.

            Thank you for your comments.

            As Salaamu Alaikum, peace

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            • I Offline
              I Offline
              ImamQuranonly
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              As Salaamu Alaikum Honor

              Salam ImamQuranOnly~

              Very nice translation so far..I do have some questions though, that maybe you can help to answer. But first let me explain my point of view of the subject, as I am a woman. I think that it is true, that us women should not approach prayers unclean, meaning during menstration...UNLESS, we have fully bathed. My perception of this, is that it is similiar to sex, in the sense that the ayat regarding prayers while unclean from sex, asks those who had sex to first bathe, tqsal, rather than just wudu. So, my impression is that us women cannot just make wudu, but must bathe completely, thus bathing and cleaning our private parts before prayer. Where as wudu, would not clean our private parts.

              I would like to clear up a couple of Quranic terms first sister

              "wudu" I have not found this term in Quran to have anything to do with washing, cleaning or As Salaat

              "ghusl",(used in 443 as "taghtasiloo" and in 56 as "faghsiloo&quot this term in Quran is described specifically as "so wash with water your faces, and your hands to the elbows, and rub/wipe with your heads and your feet to the two joints/ankle bones"

              "Tahara", (used in reference to the subject in 56 as "faittahharoo" and "liyutahhirakum" and in 2222 as "yathurna" and "tatahharna&quot this term meaning to become clean or pure, in Quran is described as "bathe your whole body". You can view the different forms of the root in the original post for the shades of meaning.

              I will explain further after the next part in your post reply.

              Also, I agree that we are not allowed to have penetrable sex with our husbands during our menstration. I beleive God condoned this, as to save us from harm. As women we are not a pollute, nor are we dirty, or even the term unlcean gives a negative conotation to our menstrating; but because we are physically bleeding, we are at risk and risking others of disease. Blood borne pathogens such asHIV, Tuberculosis, Hepatits etc, are all transmitted through blood, and I think god, wanted to give us a responsibility to guard ourselves and protect others by not sharing our blood in this manner.

              Yes, penetration during menses is a violation of a direct command from Allah to not do so. The reason is not because they women in general are considered dirty or polluted during this time (although it is a cleansing process for the woman's body), but because Allah have "reverenced" the womb. The womb is designed by Allah to go through this life cycle and to "rid" itself of the residual of the life process. This is the same after childbirth. These I would consider more "scared", if I can use that term, than dirty or polluted. And I do agree that a woman "can" be hurt doing this time if having sex, Allah knows best. Allah designed the woman, and even though many are different, He understands best what a woman goes through during this period, no pun intended.

              The main point here is that a man can not "approach" his wife "hatta yathurna fa-itha tatahharna fa/toohunna", "until they be cleaned/purified, so if they became cleaned/purified, so come to them". This lets us know that the woman can not become purified, "yathurna", until they are finished with this bleeding. Otherwise one has to take the position that you can approach women on their cycle by simply having them to take a bath first. This would be an unreasonable conclusion/assumption that goes against the clear direction and spirit of these Quranic ayat.

              So likewise, prayer can not be "approached" in a condition neccessitating "tahara" until you can make "tahara". Since a woman on her cycle can not make "tahara", which does mean taking a bath, but always includes the spiritual concept of purification as well (this you can further understand by studying the different forms of "tahara" and how Allah uses it in Quran to purify us by rain); then she should not "approach" As Salaat until she has been "purified", physically and spiritually.

              So my conclusion is A woman should never and is not allowed to have sex with her husband while on a period. Second, A woman can pray and attend mosque and hajj on a period, but only while in a state of purity; such be fitted as making a full tqsal. (completely bathed).

              So now,...my question is do you agree with what my conclusion is? And also, I was wondering...

              Yes I agree with you that a woman is not allowed to have penetrating sex with her husband while on her period. Or anyone else for that matter. rotfl ( I hope that my jokes don't offend, but I have to lighten it up sometimes.)

              I would only say at this point that a woman can not make As-Salaat while on her menses. I have not seen anything that connected the necessity of "tahara" to attending the Masjid, etc. I am not saying there is nothing else, I just have not found anything else as of yet. I will take another look at it though. But for now, I would say that the only thing that Allah has exempted the woman from doing during her menses is having sex with her husband and making As Salaat.

              Going to the Masjid has many other purposes today other than As Salaat; i.e. programs, lectures, weddings, children activities, etc. I would say that the women should not "approach" only As Salaat in the Masjid during their menses. I base all of this from the Quranic ayat, and not from the current "traditions" that are prevelant among "sunnis, etc.".

              So I guess by now you can tell now which of your conclusions I agree with and which ones that I don't. )

              If I wanted to have sex all the time with my husband at any given moment, do I have to soak my entire head of hair eachtime after when I perform tqsal? Because since it seems very difficult to constantly have my hair wet, I was in the past with my husband, just showering and washing from face to toes, and then getting my palms wet, and running them over my hair, rather than soaking my entire head in water. what do you think?

              Honor

              Again, if you are referring to "ghusl" by the term "tqsal", then "ghusl" is not the full bath of purification; that is "tahara". You can read the Quranic definition of "ghusl" again from above. We are not told exactly how to do "tahara", except for the definition including "bath the whole body". I would personally assume that this means washing the hair. To the extent that the hair is washed, I would leave that up to the individual because that is what Allah has done. Some that don't have a problem with washing their hair with shampoo one, two, three or mores times a day may have no problem with this. Others who have hair that drys out easily with this frequency of washing and soap, may choose to just wash with water only. So Allah has left it to the individual, and I think that is where it is best left by all of us. I think if your intention is pure, then your "tahara" will be pure, and Allah knows best.

              Thanks for your well thought out comments and questions. May Allah continue to guide and bless us all, insha Allah.

              As Salaamu Alaikum, peace

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              • I Offline
                I Offline
                ImamQuranonly
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Peace all,
                As far as ive read IQO's article i can say tht his arguments were entirely from the Quran Alonr by linking various Quranic verses which sure is the correct method of analysis. At first i doidnt like it BUT as he states also it is a Mercy from GOD, not something degrading. Ive heard also that during their menses the mental state of women also changes i.e. becomes more emotional than usual. In this condition i beleive it is better if a woman does not sign a contract or take an oath(also a meaning of salat) which she might later regret. This understanding infact also prevents the misunderstanding of another verse of the Quran namely 2282. This verse has often been misinterpreted to mean tht during financial transactions its two women against one man BUT someone here on the forum clarified this in his article stating there GOD means TO CALL TWO WOMEN TO THE APPOINTMENT, the reason being tht women have this issue of menses whilst men dont and if one has tht or other home related probs at least one is able to appear. Again nothing degrading and seems to add up perfectly. GOD Bless!

                As Salaamu Alaikum Jonny K,

                Thanks for your post and comments. As you have reiterated for me, I only try to derive my understanding from the words of Allah contained in Al Quran. I think a lot of what I have studied will be difficult at first for some people that have been here a long time. Many of them, in their disgust of what has been done to Islam by "hadith" and what was created from them, have gone to the opposite extreme in proving that everything remotely similar to "hadith" must be proven to be otherwise. I would just like to remind them that "falsehood" ALWAYS has its foundation and basis in the truth. So ultimately the Quran will confirm that a lot of what is in "hadith" is correct, to whatever extent. When we find something similar like this, we do not follow it because it was written in "hadith" but because we have found it in Quran and have studied it there. So I have no problem if a conclusion of mine based on Quran only sometimes agrees totally or to any extent that which comes from "hadith". My goal is to follow Quran only, as it is the only word of Allah that is protected; not to do the opposite of all "hadith"; that would give them too much credit.

                The issues you spoke of regarding women in 2282, I intend to take up later on in another thread or post under whatever category that it should be. There are so many issues to deal with here, that I will not get to some that I would like to for some time probably, Allah willing.

                As Salaamu Alaikum peace

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                • U Offline
                  U Offline
                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Salaamun alaika brother IQO,

                  Thank you for an improved understanding.

                  Correction of some minor typos and errors for the book

                  We will use three ayah that we are aware of that deal with the aspect of physical preparedness for As-Salaat.

                  It should be "ayaat".

                  This ayat is important to physical preparedness before As-Salaat because of it?s implication for women.

                  It should be "its"; "it's" would mean "it is" or "it has".

                  Salaamun alaika

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                  • I Offline
                    I Offline
                    ImamQuranonly
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    As Salaamu Alaikum Tanveer,

                    Whatever I contribute, that is a benefit, is a privilege and honor and I praise Allah for giving me guidance while allowing me to do so as He wills. I thank you tremendously for your continued help, observations, comments and corrections to the work. May Allah reward you for all of you good efforts in life, insha Allah. I will make the necessary changes. I don't have to pay you as my editor do I? ;D

                    As Salaamu Alaikum peace

                    Salaamun alaika brother IQO,

                    Thank you for an improved understanding.

                    Correction of some minor typos and errors for the book

                    It should be "ayaat".

                    It should be "its"; "it's" would mean "it is" or "it has".

                    Salaamun alaika

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                    • U Offline
                      U Offline
                      unknownuser
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Salaamun alaika brother IQO,

                      I don't have to pay you as my editor do I?

                      That would be nice ! yay I will send you my home address in a PM

                      Just kidding bro, P

                      I feel that "aqeemoo as-salaat" is a very important topic and you are making sincere efforts and striving to educate others about establishing al-salaat according to al-qur'aan. Therefore, I am trying to assist with the minor corrections in the way of The God and insha Allah He will reward me for that !

                      Although I agree with most of your points about aqeemoo as-salaat, I just wanted to clarify for the sake of general readers that I do disagree with some of your points as mentioned in some of my other posts elsewhere and hopefully all of us will reach a uniform agreement eventually about aqeemoo as-salaat through continued discussion, mutual consultation, and guidance from The God insha Allah.

                      Salaam

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                      • I Offline
                        I Offline
                        ImamQuranonly
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        As Salaamu Alaikum Tanveer,

                        Salaamun alaika brother IQO,

                        That would be nice ! yay I will send you my home address in a PM )

                        Just kidding bro,

                        I feel that "aqeemoo as-salaat" is a very important topic and you are making sincere efforts and striving to educate others about establishing al-salaat according to al-qur'aan. Therefore, I am trying to assist with the minor corrections in the way of The God and insha Allah He will reward me for that !

                        Although I agree with most of your points about aqeemoo as-salaat, I just wanted to clarify for the sake of general readers that I do disagree with some of your points as mentioned in some of my other posts elsewhere and hopefully all of us will reach a uniform agreement eventually about aqeemoo as-salaat through continued discussion, mutual consultation, and guidance from The God insha Allah.

                        Salaam

                        Again thank you for your assistance. And I think that everyone here knows from all the posts that we don't agree on everything. ) I also think that it would be very good for people who follow Al Quran only, if we could have some sort of consensus on how Al Quran teaches us to perform As Salaat. This is the first area that is attacked usually when dealing with those who believe in other than following Al Quran only. We have a lot more solid evidence contained in Al Quran on how to perform As Salaat, and everything about As Salaat, than they will ever get from "hadith". But Allah is still sufficient for us, alhamdulilaah.

                        As Salaamu Alaikum, peace

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                          nsws1988
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          I don't want to start a new thread since we are already on this subject..

                          What does everyone else think?

                          And they ask you about menstruation? Say "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed. {2222}

                          Doesn't God love women when we are menstruating? confused

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                            unknownuser
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            I don't want to start a new thread since we are already on this subject..

                            What does everyone else think?

                            And they ask you about menstruation? Say "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed. {2222}

                            Doesn't God love women when we are menstruating? confused

                            define God's love?

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                              Jack
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              See this thread

                              http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599003.0

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                                nsws1988
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                BUMP!

                                Anyone?

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                                  SarahY
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  I don't know but i don't think it's about God not loving us when we get menses. i think it's more about not having sexual relations when one has it otherwise your not cleansed. why would we need to repent? it would be one who did the act wouldn't it? doesn't "" indicate plural?

                                  Sorry can't help much i'm just assuming..

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                                    nsws1988
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    I don't know but i don't think it's about God not loving us when we get menses. i think it's more about not having sexual relations when one has it otherwise your not cleansed. why would we need to repent? it would be one who did the act wouldn't it? doesn't "" indicate plural?

                                    Sorry can't help much i'm just assuming..

                                    But if the menstruating women need to purify in order to have sex then that means that they are not purified. God loves the purified, so what about the menstruating women who are not purified?

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                                      afridi220
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      But if the menstruating women need to purify in order to have sex then that means that they are not purified. God loves the purified, so what about the menstruating women who are not purified?

                                      It is like cleaning a carburetot. It is very important to keep the carburetor clean for it to run properly. If the carburetor is not periodically cleaned and maintained, its ability to regulate the combustion can seriously be compromised, resulting in the motor to not run properly. D

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                                        SarahY
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        But if the menstruating women need to purify in order to have sex then that means that they are not purified. God loves the purified, so what about the menstruating women who are not purified?

                                        ok but in this context i understand it as the women in menses is not purified FOR sexual relations. not that she is an impure person during menstruation.

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                                          SarahY
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          something to think about

                                          9108 (Asad) Never set foot in such a place! Only a house of worship founded, from the very first day, upon God-consciousness is worthy of thy setting foot therein - wherein there are men desirous of growing in purity for God loves all who purify themselves.

                                          do you think that's physical purity God loves?

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