Physical Preparation and Proof that women should NOT pray Salaat when bleeding.
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Peace Imam Quran Only
Your posting is a good example of what many Muslims do, probably without realising it. They take other sources of law as their primary source and then try to use the Quran to 'back-justify' what they have found in other books.
The Quran does not say that menstruating women cannot carry out salat, but other books do.
Roshan
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Salam ImamQuranOnly~
Very nice translation so far..I do have some questions though, that maybe you can help to answer. But first let me explain my point of view of the subject, as I am a woman. I think that it is true, that us women should not approach prayers unclean, meaning during menstration...UNLESS, we have fully bathed. My perception of this, is that it is similiar to sex, in the sense that the ayat regarding prayers while unclean from sex, asks those who had sex to first bathe, tqsal, rather than just wudu. So, my impression is that us women cannot just make wudu, but must bathe completely, thus bathing and cleaning our private parts before prayer. Where as wudu, would not clean our private parts. Also, I agree that we are not allowed to have penetrable sex with our husbands during our menstration. I beleive God condoned this, as to save us from harm. As women we are not a pollute, nor are we dirty, or even the term unlcean gives a negative conotation to our menstrating; but because we are physically bleeding, we are at risk and risking others of disease. Blood borne pathogens such asHIV, Tuberculosis, Hepatits etc, are all transmitted through blood, and I think god, wanted to give us a responsibility to guard ourselves and protect others by not sharing our blood in this manner.
So my conclusion is A woman should never and is not allowed to have sex with her husband while on a period. Second, A woman can pray and attend mosque and hajj on a period, but only while in a state of purity; such be fitted as making a full tqsal. (completely bathed).
So now,...my question is do you agree with what my conclusion is? And also, I was wondering...
If I wanted to have sex all the time with my husband at any given moment, do I have to soak my entire head of hair eachtime after when I perform tqsal? Because since it seems very difficult to constantly have my hair wet, I was in the past with my husband, just showering and washing from face to toes, and then getting my palms wet, and running them over my hair, rather than soaking my entire head in water. what do you think?
Honor
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Peace all,
As far as ive read IQO's article i can say tht his arguments were entirely from the Quran Alonr by linking various Quranic verses which sure is the correct method of analysis. At first i doidnt like it BUT as he states also it is a Mercy from GOD, not something degrading. Ive heard also that during their menses the mental state of women also changes i.e. becomes more emotional than usual. In this condition i beleive it is better if a woman does not sign a contract or take an oath(also a meaning of salat) which she might later regret. This understanding infact also prevents the misunderstanding of another verse of the Quran namely 2282. This verse has often been misinterpreted to mean tht during financial transactions its two women against one man BUT someone here on the forum clarified this in his article stating there GOD means TO CALL TWO WOMEN TO THE APPOINTMENT, the reason being tht women have this issue of menses whilst men dont and if one has tht or other home related probs at least one is able to appear. Again nothing degrading and seems to add up perfectly. GOD Bless! -
Peace Imam Quran Only
Your posting is a good example of what many Muslims do, probably without realising it. They take other sources of law as their primary source and then try to use the Quran to 'back-justify' what they have found in other books.
The Quran does not say that menstruating women cannot carry out salat, but other books do.
Roshan
As-Salaamu Alaikum Roshan,
I understand your concerns and points of view. Obviously I don't agree with them. When I accept to follow the Quran only as my guidance from Allah in written form, that is what I did. Every conclusion that I have come to, whether correct or incorrect because Allah knows best, has been based only on what I have verified MYSELF from Quran.
I am fully aware before your statement that the Quran does not say directly that women should not pray when menstruating or during post delivery bleeding. There are many things that the Quran does not say "directly" to those who have not comprehended the full message. If your position is that only what the Quran says "point blank" so to speak is accepted, then you will miss the entire "spirit" of the Quran and its continous revealing of guidance to believers. The Quran needs to be "contemplated" on because Allah has made the message difficult for those who do not approach it in the right manner.
If you follow the next post, I will try to explain in more detail why Allah has given the permission, as a mercy to women, to not have to pray during their menses or post delivery bleeding.
Thank you for your comments.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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As Salaamu Alaikum Honor
Salam ImamQuranOnly~
Very nice translation so far..I do have some questions though, that maybe you can help to answer. But first let me explain my point of view of the subject, as I am a woman. I think that it is true, that us women should not approach prayers unclean, meaning during menstration...UNLESS, we have fully bathed. My perception of this, is that it is similiar to sex, in the sense that the ayat regarding prayers while unclean from sex, asks those who had sex to first bathe, tqsal, rather than just wudu. So, my impression is that us women cannot just make wudu, but must bathe completely, thus bathing and cleaning our private parts before prayer. Where as wudu, would not clean our private parts.
I would like to clear up a couple of Quranic terms first sister
"wudu" I have not found this term in Quran to have anything to do with washing, cleaning or As Salaat
"ghusl",(used in 443 as "taghtasiloo" and in 56 as "faghsiloo" this term in Quran is described specifically as "so wash with water your faces, and your hands to the elbows, and rub/wipe with your heads and your feet to the two joints/ankle bones"
"Tahara", (used in reference to the subject in 56 as "faittahharoo" and "liyutahhirakum" and in 2222 as "yathurna" and "tatahharna" this term meaning to become clean or pure, in Quran is described as "bathe your whole body". You can view the different forms of the root in the original post for the shades of meaning.
I will explain further after the next part in your post reply.
Also, I agree that we are not allowed to have penetrable sex with our husbands during our menstration. I beleive God condoned this, as to save us from harm. As women we are not a pollute, nor are we dirty, or even the term unlcean gives a negative conotation to our menstrating; but because we are physically bleeding, we are at risk and risking others of disease. Blood borne pathogens such asHIV, Tuberculosis, Hepatits etc, are all transmitted through blood, and I think god, wanted to give us a responsibility to guard ourselves and protect others by not sharing our blood in this manner.
Yes, penetration during menses is a violation of a direct command from Allah to not do so. The reason is not because they women in general are considered dirty or polluted during this time (although it is a cleansing process for the woman's body), but because Allah have "reverenced" the womb. The womb is designed by Allah to go through this life cycle and to "rid" itself of the residual of the life process. This is the same after childbirth. These I would consider more "scared", if I can use that term, than dirty or polluted. And I do agree that a woman "can" be hurt doing this time if having sex, Allah knows best. Allah designed the woman, and even though many are different, He understands best what a woman goes through during this period, no pun intended.
The main point here is that a man can not "approach" his wife "hatta yathurna fa-itha tatahharna fa/toohunna", "until they be cleaned/purified, so if they became cleaned/purified, so come to them". This lets us know that the woman can not become purified, "yathurna", until they are finished with this bleeding. Otherwise one has to take the position that you can approach women on their cycle by simply having them to take a bath first. This would be an unreasonable conclusion/assumption that goes against the clear direction and spirit of these Quranic ayat.
So likewise, prayer can not be "approached" in a condition neccessitating "tahara" until you can make "tahara". Since a woman on her cycle can not make "tahara", which does mean taking a bath, but always includes the spiritual concept of purification as well (this you can further understand by studying the different forms of "tahara" and how Allah uses it in Quran to purify us by rain); then she should not "approach" As Salaat until she has been "purified", physically and spiritually.
So my conclusion is A woman should never and is not allowed to have sex with her husband while on a period. Second, A woman can pray and attend mosque and hajj on a period, but only while in a state of purity; such be fitted as making a full tqsal. (completely bathed).
So now,...my question is do you agree with what my conclusion is? And also, I was wondering...
Yes I agree with you that a woman is not allowed to have penetrating sex with her husband while on her period. Or anyone else for that matter. rotfl ( I hope that my jokes don't offend, but I have to lighten it up sometimes.)
I would only say at this point that a woman can not make As-Salaat while on her menses. I have not seen anything that connected the necessity of "tahara" to attending the Masjid, etc. I am not saying there is nothing else, I just have not found anything else as of yet. I will take another look at it though. But for now, I would say that the only thing that Allah has exempted the woman from doing during her menses is having sex with her husband and making As Salaat.
Going to the Masjid has many other purposes today other than As Salaat; i.e. programs, lectures, weddings, children activities, etc. I would say that the women should not "approach" only As Salaat in the Masjid during their menses. I base all of this from the Quranic ayat, and not from the current "traditions" that are prevelant among "sunnis, etc.".
So I guess by now you can tell now which of your conclusions I agree with and which ones that I don't. )
If I wanted to have sex all the time with my husband at any given moment, do I have to soak my entire head of hair eachtime after when I perform tqsal? Because since it seems very difficult to constantly have my hair wet, I was in the past with my husband, just showering and washing from face to toes, and then getting my palms wet, and running them over my hair, rather than soaking my entire head in water. what do you think?
Honor
Again, if you are referring to "ghusl" by the term "tqsal", then "ghusl" is not the full bath of purification; that is "tahara". You can read the Quranic definition of "ghusl" again from above. We are not told exactly how to do "tahara", except for the definition including "bath the whole body". I would personally assume that this means washing the hair. To the extent that the hair is washed, I would leave that up to the individual because that is what Allah has done. Some that don't have a problem with washing their hair with shampoo one, two, three or mores times a day may have no problem with this. Others who have hair that drys out easily with this frequency of washing and soap, may choose to just wash with water only. So Allah has left it to the individual, and I think that is where it is best left by all of us. I think if your intention is pure, then your "tahara" will be pure, and Allah knows best.
Thanks for your well thought out comments and questions. May Allah continue to guide and bless us all, insha Allah.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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Peace all,
As far as ive read IQO's article i can say tht his arguments were entirely from the Quran Alonr by linking various Quranic verses which sure is the correct method of analysis. At first i doidnt like it BUT as he states also it is a Mercy from GOD, not something degrading. Ive heard also that during their menses the mental state of women also changes i.e. becomes more emotional than usual. In this condition i beleive it is better if a woman does not sign a contract or take an oath(also a meaning of salat) which she might later regret. This understanding infact also prevents the misunderstanding of another verse of the Quran namely 2282. This verse has often been misinterpreted to mean tht during financial transactions its two women against one man BUT someone here on the forum clarified this in his article stating there GOD means TO CALL TWO WOMEN TO THE APPOINTMENT, the reason being tht women have this issue of menses whilst men dont and if one has tht or other home related probs at least one is able to appear. Again nothing degrading and seems to add up perfectly. GOD Bless!As Salaamu Alaikum Jonny K,
Thanks for your post and comments. As you have reiterated for me, I only try to derive my understanding from the words of Allah contained in Al Quran. I think a lot of what I have studied will be difficult at first for some people that have been here a long time. Many of them, in their disgust of what has been done to Islam by "hadith" and what was created from them, have gone to the opposite extreme in proving that everything remotely similar to "hadith" must be proven to be otherwise. I would just like to remind them that "falsehood" ALWAYS has its foundation and basis in the truth. So ultimately the Quran will confirm that a lot of what is in "hadith" is correct, to whatever extent. When we find something similar like this, we do not follow it because it was written in "hadith" but because we have found it in Quran and have studied it there. So I have no problem if a conclusion of mine based on Quran only sometimes agrees totally or to any extent that which comes from "hadith". My goal is to follow Quran only, as it is the only word of Allah that is protected; not to do the opposite of all "hadith"; that would give them too much credit.
The issues you spoke of regarding women in 2282, I intend to take up later on in another thread or post under whatever category that it should be. There are so many issues to deal with here, that I will not get to some that I would like to for some time probably, Allah willing.
As Salaamu Alaikum peace
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Salaamun alaika brother IQO,
Thank you for an improved understanding.
Correction of some minor typos and errors for the book
We will use three ayah that we are aware of that deal with the aspect of physical preparedness for As-Salaat.
It should be "ayaat".
This ayat is important to physical preparedness before As-Salaat because of it?s implication for women.
It should be "its"; "it's" would mean "it is" or "it has".
Salaamun alaika
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As Salaamu Alaikum Tanveer,
Whatever I contribute, that is a benefit, is a privilege and honor and I praise Allah for giving me guidance while allowing me to do so as He wills. I thank you tremendously for your continued help, observations, comments and corrections to the work. May Allah reward you for all of you good efforts in life, insha Allah. I will make the necessary changes. I don't have to pay you as my editor do I? ;D
As Salaamu Alaikum peace
Salaamun alaika brother IQO,
Thank you for an improved understanding.
Correction of some minor typos and errors for the book
It should be "ayaat".
It should be "its"; "it's" would mean "it is" or "it has".
Salaamun alaika
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Salaamun alaika brother IQO,
I don't have to pay you as my editor do I?
That would be nice ! yay I will send you my home address in a PM
Just kidding bro, P
I feel that "aqeemoo as-salaat" is a very important topic and you are making sincere efforts and striving to educate others about establishing al-salaat according to al-qur'aan. Therefore, I am trying to assist with the minor corrections in the way of The God and insha Allah He will reward me for that !
Although I agree with most of your points about aqeemoo as-salaat, I just wanted to clarify for the sake of general readers that I do disagree with some of your points as mentioned in some of my other posts elsewhere and hopefully all of us will reach a uniform agreement eventually about aqeemoo as-salaat through continued discussion, mutual consultation, and guidance from The God insha Allah.
Salaam
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As Salaamu Alaikum Tanveer,
Salaamun alaika brother IQO,
That would be nice ! yay I will send you my home address in a PM )
Just kidding bro,
I feel that "aqeemoo as-salaat" is a very important topic and you are making sincere efforts and striving to educate others about establishing al-salaat according to al-qur'aan. Therefore, I am trying to assist with the minor corrections in the way of The God and insha Allah He will reward me for that !
Although I agree with most of your points about aqeemoo as-salaat, I just wanted to clarify for the sake of general readers that I do disagree with some of your points as mentioned in some of my other posts elsewhere and hopefully all of us will reach a uniform agreement eventually about aqeemoo as-salaat through continued discussion, mutual consultation, and guidance from The God insha Allah.
Salaam
Again thank you for your assistance. And I think that everyone here knows from all the posts that we don't agree on everything. ) I also think that it would be very good for people who follow Al Quran only, if we could have some sort of consensus on how Al Quran teaches us to perform As Salaat. This is the first area that is attacked usually when dealing with those who believe in other than following Al Quran only. We have a lot more solid evidence contained in Al Quran on how to perform As Salaat, and everything about As Salaat, than they will ever get from "hadith". But Allah is still sufficient for us, alhamdulilaah.
As Salaamu Alaikum, peace
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I don't want to start a new thread since we are already on this subject..
What does everyone else think?
And they ask you about menstruation? Say "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed. {2222}
Doesn't God love women when we are menstruating? confused
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I don't want to start a new thread since we are already on this subject..
What does everyone else think?
And they ask you about menstruation? Say "It is harmful, so retire yourselves sexually from the women during the menstruation, and do not approach them until they are cleansed. When they are cleansed, then you may approach them as God has commanded you." God loves the repenters and He loves the cleansed. {2222}
Doesn't God love women when we are menstruating? confused
define God's love?
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I don't know but i don't think it's about God not loving us when we get menses. i think it's more about not having sexual relations when one has it otherwise your not cleansed. why would we need to repent? it would be one who did the act wouldn't it? doesn't "" indicate plural?
Sorry can't help much i'm just assuming..
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I don't know but i don't think it's about God not loving us when we get menses. i think it's more about not having sexual relations when one has it otherwise your not cleansed. why would we need to repent? it would be one who did the act wouldn't it? doesn't "" indicate plural?
Sorry can't help much i'm just assuming..
But if the menstruating women need to purify in order to have sex then that means that they are not purified. God loves the purified, so what about the menstruating women who are not purified?
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But if the menstruating women need to purify in order to have sex then that means that they are not purified. God loves the purified, so what about the menstruating women who are not purified?
It is like cleaning a carburetot. It is very important to keep the carburetor clean for it to run properly. If the carburetor is not periodically cleaned and maintained, its ability to regulate the combustion can seriously be compromised, resulting in the motor to not run properly. D
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But if the menstruating women need to purify in order to have sex then that means that they are not purified. God loves the purified, so what about the menstruating women who are not purified?
ok but in this context i understand it as the women in menses is not purified FOR sexual relations. not that she is an impure person during menstruation.
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something to think about
9108 (Asad) Never set foot in such a place! Only a house of worship founded, from the very first day, upon God-consciousness is worthy of thy setting foot therein - wherein there are men desirous of growing in purity for God loves all who purify themselves.
do you think that's physical purity God loves?
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It is like cleaning a carburetot. It is very important to keep the carburetor clean for it to run properly. If the carburetor is not periodically cleaned and maintained, its ability to regulate the combustion can seriously be compromised, resulting in the motor to not run properly.
Good point man. But nowadays we have fuel injection and there are things like pads now.