Tasreef/Crossreference understanding of Jesus's deeds---Miracle belief rejected
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Peace Arnold!
Excellent Work! Your efforts are much appreciated. If it's okay with God and you, I'll try to translate this to norwegian.
Bless you!
Nadeem
I also like it.
Although whether he passed on the cross or otherwise is debatable - i think.
Gods Blessings on you.
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The verse says that some among their fathers were blessed, the 'min' being partive refers to that some of them were blessed, not that some had fathers. The verse clearly says all had fathers, but that only some of those were favoured, just like only some of the offspring were favoured.
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The verse says that some among their fathers were blessed, the 'min' being partive refers to that some of them were blessed, not that some had fathers. The verse clearly says all had fathers, but that only some of those were favoured, just like only some of the offspring were favoured.
I see your point, but to be sure I'd have to review all of the similar occurrences.
However, I just realised the sign in question is 687 (not 68, thus 687 could refer to those mentioned in 686.
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Peace all,
"Aabaaihim" also means "forefathers" which can include maternal grandfather too, thus 687 is not proof that Jesus had a father.
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Peace,
Yes, it can also mean that. It is part of the proof, not the only one. The first one is reason......But everyone can believe what he wants.
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I do not want to participate in this discussion because I don't seen the point (or probably because I am not in a good mood today brickwall) but I just have a question. Why would Jesus-not-having-a-father have any relevance to his stature or message... The universe is a far greater "miracle" than Jesus in my view.
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I thought , we were done with this topic, Brother tanveer and fahad had refuted it in length, the thread is available for every one to make up his own mind.
why not use these energies on some thing new, we still have plenty of important issues to do justice with.
peace
siki
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Peace,
The storu was not refuted, they made their point clear and I mine. In the end it came down too that there were more logical answers for the story, but even if there are far more logical answers, people still want to hang on to miracles as they believe it is necessary for God to 'prove' His Power. For me, the Universe is already enough.
I stick to the more logical answers, as the Quran also explains Jesus's deeds being told metaphorically as I explained above using the Quran alone, then it is also logical that there is also a logical answer for his birth.
But we had this discussion, you can believe it to be a 'miracle' or a more logical story that is even completely in line with newly understood history.
Warner, in 335-37 the mother of Mary already dedicated her child to God's service, her tone already shows this some kind of special service. Then later on we see Mary being given to Zacheria's custody in the Temple. 1+1=2 for me.
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Peace Arnold
AY Warner, in 335-37 the mother of Mary already dedicated her child to God's service, her tone already shows this some kind of special service. Then later on we see Mary being given to Zacheria's custody in the Temple. 1+1=2 for me
There is nothing in the Quran to suggest that family of Imaran or mother of Mary are transgressors. If Mary ended up in a temple the fault is Zakarias since he was her guardian. Also nothing to suggest mary being given to zakaria?s custody in the temple. Are you suggesting Zakaria is at fault? Also there is no mention of a temple/masjid in the Quran to which the prophets such as Zakaria were attached to.
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Peace Arnold
Arnold Of course Allah can do it, this is not the discussion. It is about what falls under Allah's Laws as he clearly says He will not brake His Laws. These include the Laws of the Universe.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13174.msg110222#msg110222
Can you kindly tell me your observation that "Allah will not break His Laws" is based on which verse/s ?
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Peace
I believe Mary was handed over to Zakaria as the guardian since her parents died.
19 28
Yusuf Ali "O sister of Aaron! thy father was not a man of evil nor thy mother a woman unchaste!"
Pickthall Oh sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.
Ya_ ukhta ha_ru_na ma_ ka_na abu_kim ra a sau iw wa ma_ ka_nat um muki baghiy ya_In the above verse we can see people referring to Mary?s Father and Mother in the past tense. Also if Mary brings a child out of marriage her parents will be the first to worry or confront and we do not see any mention of them here.
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I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe (Al-Imran 349)
My question to all you people who deny the great miracles that Allah showed through the Messiah (alaihi salaam), is why does the Holy Quran say after mentioning every "supernatural miracle" of Jesus (alaihi salaam), but does not add this phrase after any of his more normal deeds (such as declaring what his followers should eat and store in their houses)? The phrase bithni Allahi added after every supernatural miracle mentioned in this verse is to show that whereas these miracles appeared to have been done by Jesus (alaihi salaam), in reality they were Signs from Allah, because Jesus (alaihi salaam) is only a human being. If all of these miracles, as some people foolishly contend, were metaphors and not supernatural, what would the reason be for "bithni Allahi"?
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And there is another verse where the miracles bestowed to Jesus Christ (alaihi salaam) are mentioned as well
Then will Allah say O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said 'This is nothing but evident magic.' (Al-Maidah 5110)
Again we can see the phrase bithnee (by My leave) mentioned after every supernatural miracle.
Furthermore, the verse says that Jesus (alaihi salaam) miraculously cured those born blind, which has to be physical blindness, because Allah does not create anyone spiritually blind.
Jazak Allah khair
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Peace,
First you must ask yourself
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Why would you hold on to believing in miracles when much more logical answers can be given? What purpose does belief in miracles serve? To prove God's Power? That is nonsense of course, as why would He need to prove Himself while it is Him who installed the Laws of the Universe in the first place. It is like building a house and then demolish it to show my strenght, nonsense of course. Building of the house out of nothing already shows the Wisdom and Power of God. The Truth is what makes people believe, not miracles or magic. Why do you think we must research nature? see 3191
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Warner, I have discussed that issue already before. Two views came out of it. One is that Allah does not change His Ways is only with with handling people. But this in my eyes means, that the Laws that govern His Requital in our Universe with people are the only fixed Laws, through understanding Nature, we can see that all of the Laws in the Universe are fixed, but also, that many Laws that govern His Requital, are intertwined with other Laws of Nature.
Thus by my understanding ALL Laws are fixed and unchangable in the Universe, this is Allah's Kalimaat, Word and Decree.
I have already discussed this before in many threads, and I have no time for again going through all the subjects over and over.
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