Mohsannat? A new understanding(very imp)
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Peace Siki
Your explanation on the contradiction of Mohsanat between 424 and 425 is incomplete. (How is it NOT ALLOWED to marry chaste among women but ALLOWED
To marry chaste among muminat.)You omitted a WA/AND in 425.
Your second solution was to have the WA/AND but connect 425 to an unrelated part of 424.
I think you missed the Mohsanat in ?half the punishment as for a Mohsanat? in 425 also.
I wish you post your clear understanding on 424 and 425 and ask someone fluent in Arabic here to check whether your opinion is correct. I remember Samia refuted
the grammar in your construction. -
Peace Siki
I think you missed the Mohsanat in half the punishment as for a Mohsanat in 425 also.
NO i did not , please see my quote down below in Red
Dear ALL
to continue with the analysis , i shall discuss 4-25'
4-25 , if you can not afford to marry a believing mohsinnat , then from MME a fatayat of believing category, nikah them with the permission of their masters,,,,
if due to any reason one is unable to marry a believing mohsinnat , then God is prescribing the next best option, and that is , marry a Mohsinnat who is a maiden and believing out of MME.
and she is to be a maiden , not a widow or divorcee from MME category of MOhsinnats.
After she is bonded ( a mean has been provided with the help of which she can stay chaste/righteous) and even then if , she commits Fahisha , punishment for this sub category of mohsinnats would be half , of what is prescribed for a regular MOHSINNA.
i shall continuepeace
siki
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Peace Siki
Your explanation on the contradiction of Mohsanat between 424 and 425 is incomplete. (How is it NOT ALLOWED to marry chaste among women but ALLOWED To marry chaste among muminat.)
o I did not say that , i am dazed hypno, how casually you have been treating my posts/ explanations.
This wrong interpretation , and its resultant contradiction with all the other verses in Quran, was "The Reason " which prompted me to start this thread, and look for alternate solutions to reach/ correct/improve this anomaly.
peace
siki
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Peace Siki
I wish you post your clear understanding on 424 and 425 and ask someone fluent in Arabic here to check whether your opinion is correct. I remember Samia refuted
the grammar in your construction.I don't disrespect my Arabic fluent friends, they are good and helpful, but i humbly submit , that sometimes , the solutions can be reached without their expertise, with a little use of common sense.
Had this been the criteria , we would not have so many good translations by non Arabic speakers. And all of we here ,would not brickwall , trying to sort out a simple WA.peace
siki
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Peace Siki
I made a mistake with the verse numbers.
It is the Wa/And in 424
Also I meant connecting 423 and 424.
Siki marry a Mohsinnat who is a maiden and believing out of MME
This part of the verse does not say Mohsanat
Please explain ?sub category of mohsinnat? and ?regular MOHSINNA?
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Peace Siki
siki wrote, Marry a Mohsinnat who is a maiden and believing out of MME
This part of the verse does not say Mohsanat
I agree , that this part of the verse does not contain the word Mohsinna, but remember i am not quoting a verse word by word here , i am elaborating and writing my own words to explain what God meant to convey.
i justify my understanding of Mohsinnat in this particular case because of 4-23, when it says,
4-23 And the Mohsinnats except MME,,, ( Wal Mohsinnati illa MA malakat emnakum---)
it means "And the mohsinnats except the mohsinnats who belong to MME---
if MME were not mohsinnats,and were a different category,there was no need to insert this important" ILLA MME "
peace
siki
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Peace Siki
Please explain ?sub category of mohsinnat? and ?regular MOHSINNA?
Come on brother! who could be better than you , to appreciate the difference between a regular Mohsinna and someone who is MME ,
who could be a person more appropriate than you, to elaborate on adverse situation of a "Mohsinna coming through MME" channel, and reasons for the concession in punishments in case she committs Fahisha now.
peace
siki
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Peace Siki
But dropping a WA from the Quranic verse defy all common sense.
I did not , in all of my posts except the first, which i did by mistake , and when Brother Tanveer pointed out, i corrected it. Here it is in one of my later posts
Dear Warner and Samia.
and now 4-24"AND MOHSANNAT OUT OF NISA EXCEPT MMA GOD?S BOOK IS OVER YOU AND LAWFUL FOR YOU BESIDES THOSE THAT YOU SEEK WITH YOUR WEALTH IN A FAIR RELATIONSHIP NOT MUSAAFIHEEN THEN WHAT BENEFIT YOU DERIVE WITH IT FROM THEM THEN GIVE THEM THEIR DOWERS AS APPOINTED AND NO BLAME UPON YOU WHAT YOU MUTTALLY AGREE WITH"
And we will sort this out too, when you are satisfied with other minor issues regarding the subject word mohsninnat and its usages,
So tell me when you are satisfied and left with no more queries other than this WA.
peacesiki
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Siki 4-23 And the Mohsinnats except MME,,, ( Wal Mohsinnati illa MA malakat emnakum---)
it means "And the mohsinnats except the mohsinnats who belong to MME---
if MME were not mohsinnats,and were a different category,there was no need to insert this important" ILLA MME "
Salaam Brother
You made an error on the verse number above.
Wal muhsana_tu minan nisa_'i illa_ ma_ malakat aima_nukum???..424
My problem is it is not Mohsanat in 424 it is ?muhsana_tu minan nisa_?
I am sorry for emphasizing the Wa/And on 424 after you have withdrawn that point.
But still I do not get how you solved the contradiction between 424 and 425.
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I am sorry for emphasizing the Wa/And on 424 after you have withdrawn that point.
But still I do not get how you solved the contradiction between 424 and 425.
i have not withdrawn but pended it till i sort out other inquiries.
Wal muhsana_tu minan nisa_'i illa_ ma_ malakat aima_nukum..424
My problem is it is not Mohsanat in 424 it is muhsana_tu minan nisa_
And the chaste ones out of women excluding the ones belonging to MME --
what exactly is the problem , can you elaborate?peace
siki
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peace warner
That is precisely the contradiction , and the issue of WA , which i have pended till you are satisfied with rest of the stuff.
so, do you require any clarifications regarding any occurrence , other than this?
Are you satisfied with my explanations regarding the use of word MOhsinnat and/or its root HSN in all verses of Quran except this one?
If not, and you still have some queries left, please tell me now.
siki
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Peace Warner, Siki, all,
Translation of "mohsanaat" as "chaste" creates a huge contradiction in 425.
In 425, "mohsanaat" is used IN CONTRAST with "MMA from believing fatayat". If "mohsanaat" is translated as "chaste" here, then we are being told that if we cannot marry the chaste women then marry MMA from believing fatayat, thus making MMA from believing fatayat UNCHASTE and also making believing fatayat UNCHASTE ! o
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Salaam bro siki,
There is no such thing as "regular" chaste versus "irregular" chaste P
"Salted chips" would be a better analogy, then "salt and vinegar flavored" would be included in the "salted", not a different category ! P
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Salaam bro siki,
well that was just an off the cuff shot , you may improve upon/perfect it but i hope , you got what i meant to convey
It still doesn't solve the contradiction created by translating "mohsanaat" as "chaste" in 425. Then if one cannot marry a chaste woman then he can marry the "MMA from believing fatayat"; this would make "MMA from believing fatayat" not included in the category of "chaste", thus making them UNCHASTE o