Introduction and Preface to: HOW TO PERFORM AS-SALAAT ACCORDING TO THE QUR?AN...

unknownuser

Peace Brother Tanveer,

In your post somewhere you wrote

Allah not telling us the exact wordings of "nidaa" to al-salaat in al-qur'aan, therefore, can only mean that He left it up to us to arbitrarily choose any set of words/phrases for the purpose of "nidaa" to al-salaat, either based on al-qur'aan or common sense.

I agree with you on that, and this is my main point that we do not need to twist the verses of Quran in order to derive every single detail (Not only for Salaat but for other matters as well) from the Quran. Whatever detail is not given is left to us, and whatever left to us doesn't mean that Quran is not fully detailed. That is my understanding!

I couldn't follow the chain reaction of the posts in the links you provided with, but whatever I could read from those posts, I couldn't find a method of Salaat according to Quran alone as per your understanding. Do you have any one article which shows

How to start the salaat
Positions in salaat
Number of salaat each day (Some Quran alone believe 3 prayers per day and they have verses to back thier claim.)
Number of units in each salaat
Bowing down and prostrating (with their repetition in each unit)

If you could provide any complete article of yours about the whole method it would be of really great help. Beacuse its really interesting that I haven't read any article before in my life which shows the complete method of salaat from start to end! And if someone claims so then am ready to understand it!

Please brother give a complete article because I cannot follow the chain reaction of posts! You can say I have a disability for that. It is purely meant for understanding. I hope you won't mind.

With Respect, Hamsa

unknownuser

Peace brother Abdul,

Alhamdulillah. You are most welcome brother. All ilm and praise belongs to Allah, for without His help we are nothing. May Allah guide us all to the straight path so we can submit peacefully to Him according to His will.

Can you please share with us the results of your research when you have time so we can all benefit from it insha Allah ? I know aqeemus-salaat is a long subject but maybe a few salient points on only a few aspects will help. I really admire your willingness to study al-qur'aan, learn and improve your understanding mashaa Allah.

I apologize if you thought I was being a bit harsh about your post. It is just that I try to undertake an evidence based communication with relevant evidence from al-qur'aan.

Massalaam

unknownuser

Peace brother Hamsa,

Whatever detail is not given is left to us, and whatever left to us doesn't mean that Quran is not fully detailed. That is my understanding!

YOU GOT IT ! Alhamdulillah.

I couldn't follow the chain reaction of the posts in the links you provided with, but whatever I could read from those posts, I couldn't find a method of Salaat according to Quran alone as per your understanding.

If you could provide any complete article of yours about the whole method it would be of really great help. Beacuse its really interesting that I haven't read any article before in my life which shows the complete method of salaat from start to end! And if someone claims so then am ready to understand it!

Please brother give a complete article because I cannot follow the chain reaction of posts! You can say I have a disability for that. It is purely meant for understanding. I hope you won't mind.

I am sorry the order of my posts confused you a bit. Its just that I think establishing al-salaat is a personal act between an individual and Allah and thus the complete way one person establishes al-salaat may not necessarily be exactly similar to another person's way. The mental and physical aspects clearly mentioned in al-qur'aan, however, should be the same, comprising of the pre salaat washing, studying the signs of al-qur'aan by reciting them in a moderate tone and understanding them, being in a state of humility and obedience to Allah, remembering, praising, and glorifying Allah, praying to Allah, standing, and performing ruku and sujood etc.

The exact words used could be different for each person. The exact physical way one stands, and performs ruku and sujood could also be different for each person as long as one "falls" in ruku (for example kneeling with humility), and one "falls" TO the chin in sujood. Falling to the chin does not mean falling "upon" the chin, so the chin does not necessarily have to touch the ground, and even if it touches the ground it should be ok as one is still falling TO the chin in sujood. Also, in my understanding, there are 2 units in each salaat, each unit comprising of standing, ruku, and sujood, unless the salaat is shortened because of fear or war.

I would encourage you to customize your own complete method of salaat, as long as it conforms to the basic important points mentioned in al-qur'aan. That is why I don't believe in writing a complete method of salaat because I think Allah left the fine details up to the individual, otherwise He would have mentioned the fine microscopic details if they really were important.

For GROUP SALAAT, however, we need to reach at a consensus using mutual consultation (4238, 3159), so that all the people in the group establish salaat in a uniform manner. Obviously, in a group salaat, the leader will recite al-qur'aan in a moderate tone while the others listen to it silently.

Having said that, I will try to give you my understanding on some of the points you brought up

How to start the salaat

Do the pre salaat washing according to al-qur'aan and have mental clarity (56, 443). Then stand facing any physical direction (2115, 2142, 2177) (as long as your mental focus is on abstaining from the forbidden and obeying the commandments of Allah - 2144, 2149-150) and start reciting anywhere from al-qur'aan (4103 - "kitaban mawqootan"/timed BOOK, 1778 - "qur'aana al-fajri"/dawn reading, 17106-110) in a moderate tone (17110, 111). Recite any number of signs while understanding (443) them. If Arabic is not your first language, then recite the signs in Arabic (using transliteration) and then reading their translation so you understand what you are reciting. You could be doing it from memory or holding al-qur'aan in your hand, it does not matter.

17111 should always be recited in al-salaat. The first chapter is also a good choice for each unit, followed by any other signs from al-qur'aan, preferably the ones you haven't yet studied, or onwards from the last signs studied in the previous salaat.

The last utterance should be "alhamdu lillahi rabbi al-3alameen" (see 1010).

The direction should be a mental direction towards "masjid alharam"/institution of obedience the forbidden (2144). The focal point is not just during salat, but wherever one is (2149, 2150) and the evidence confirms it is non-physical (2115, 2142, 2177) (sectarians face their idol in Makkah/Mecca). Thus the physical direction could be in any direction.

Please see the following for more details

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13210.msg110854#msg110854 (please read the entire thread for studying the arguments presented by all parties).

http//free-minds.org/articles/history/ayman1.htm

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

Positions in salaat

Standing position (4102, 339, 2238, 4142). You could have your forearms on the side or folded or holding al-qur'aan with your hands, it does not matter.

Kneeling position (555, 3824). Remember and praise and glorify Allah (2945, 2014, 17110-111) using your words of choice from al-qur'aan and mention His beautiful names/attributes (17110) any number of times. If your understanding is that "falling in ruku" is "bowing" instead of kneeling then I think that should also be ok, as long as one performs physical ruku with humility in any way.

For a discussion on the physical ruku please see the following

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13496.0

Prostration TO the chin (17107, 109). Could be any physical way. For example flexing your neck and lowering your head until the chin rests on upper chest, or flexing your spine and lowering your head so the chin is nearer to the ground, or lowering your chin all the way until it touches the ground with your hands resting on ground, it does not matter as long as one is lowering and falling to their chins. Remember and praise and glorify Allah using your words of choice from al-qur'aan and mention His beautiful names/attributes any number of times.

Please see the following for a discussion about physical sujud

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12918.msg107735#msg107735

Probably that is why the disbelievers will not know how to perform sujud on the Last Day, and they will be dragged by their lying and errant foreheads (6842, 9615-16).

The physical ruku and sujood should be accompanied by mental humility and state of obedience/submission to Allah which is the more important aspect of ruku and sujood.

One can also offer "dua"/prayer to Allah at a position of one's choice, any number of times, using suitable signs from al-qur'aan or one's own words in one's own language.

Number of salaat each day (Some Quran alone believe 3 prayers per day and they have verses to back thier claim.)

There are 2 obligatory salaat each day according to al-qur'aan. Salaat al-fajr (dawn) and salaat al-isha (dusk). For evidences and proof from al-qur'aan, see the following discussions

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12200.msg92976#msg92976

http//free-minds.org/articles/quranic/salat2.htm

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7727.0 (for a detailed discussion on "al-salaat al-wusta&quot

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9110.msg107691#msg107691

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13595.msg115426#msg115426

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=13595.msg115538#msg115538 (proof from grammar)

Those who claim there are 3 obligatory salaat per day, get their understanding by misinterpreting and twisting the meaning of "al-salaat al-wusta" in 2238 in an illogical manner, and then misinterpreting 1778 to fit their misinterpretation of 2238 as explained in some of the above links. Some other people deliberately mistranslate 11114 into "near part of the night" instead of the correct "near parts (plural) of the night" to get an extra salaat after dusk (see http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12074.msg114433#msg114433). Thus even the proponents of 3 salaat differ in which 3 times. Interestingly, the former category claim dawn, noon, and dusk and the latter claim dawn, dusk, and night, but no one claims 4 salaat (dawn, noon, dusk, night) !!

Please see the following links for very interesting info on where the "5 times" came from, and how corruptions crept into "salat" and how muslims "lost" the salat

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10099.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=8250.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7992.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9226.0

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=7918.msg15417#msg15417

The hadeeth writers were mostly Zoroastrian converts (Iranians) and they merged the belief and practices of Zoroastrianism with the islam and corrupted it.

Number of units in each salaat

There are two units in each salat, please see the following discussions

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12981.msg106616#msg106616

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14109.0

In case of fear or war, the salat can be shortened to one unit, and can also be performed while walking or riding (4101, 2239).

Bowing down and prostrating (with their repetition in each unit)

Ruku and sujood once in each unit. Please see above for details.

Please read my following discussion once again for some other aspects that I haven't mentioned in this post

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12074.0

Hope that helps. Please let me know if your research from al-qur'aan gives you a different understanding on any of the above issues or if something is not clear in my post or you have a question on some other aspect of establishing al-salaat.

May Allah guide us all to the straight path and help us understand His signs.

unknownuser

Peace brother Tanveer

That is why I don't believe in writing a complete method of salaat because I think Allah left the fine details up to the individual, otherwise He would have mentioned the fine microscopic details if they really were important.

So we both agree on that! good

With having that in mind, I always believe that we shouldn't waste our time fighting about those differences which are not important at all or depend on each individuals rather we should be more concerned about the following

4213 He has made plain to you the religion which He enjoined upon Noah and We have revealed to you, and which We enjoined on Abraham and Moses and Jesus that To Establish Deen and not to be divided therein.

With Respect, Hamsa

Samia

With having that in mind, I always believe that we shouldn't waste our time fighting about those differences which are not important at all or depend on each individuals rather we should be more concerned about the following

4213 He has made plain to you the religion which He enjoined upon Noah and We have revealed to you, and which We enjoined on Abraham and Moses and Jesus that To Establish Deen and not to be divided therein.

Salaam Hamsa

While I agree with you in general, I just have to disagree on the "fighting" thing. We discuss in order to come to a better understanding. I agree that there are the odd fights, but that's normal in this environment and with the number of participants, maa shaa'llah. Maybe we are doing hajj without knowing!!

unknownuser

Peace sis Samia,

Sorry for not elaborating my point. I used that term in general(for all sects) and not specifically for this forum. Because differences of Salaat are main reason of disputes in different sects.

With Respect, Hamsa

unknownuser

Peace Brother Tanveer,

I read one of your post where you mention this

Peace all,

According to the Qur'aan there are 2 units per salat

4 101. And if you are on the offensive in the land, then there is no harm that you shorten from the salat, if you fear that the rejecters will try you. The rejecters are to you a clear enemy.

So in the normal situation it is always 2 units. Whether it be in congregation or individual salat, and this is the same for all times. There is no prostration-kneeling-prostration mentioned in these verses. Only one prostration per unit, nothing more. You prostrate and stand up immediately. Of course there is no harm at all if a person desires to perform more units then 2 units in individual salat, as the salat is for the remembrance of The God.

Would you please elaborate the following points

The verse mention shorten
HALF = SHORTEN
But
SHORTEN is not = HALF
Please correct me.
Only one prostration per unit
When verse says shorten the salat then why to believe that it only ask shorten the unit and not the prostration as well.

Thats it for now

With Respect, Hamsa

unknownuser

Peace brother Hamsa,

The post I referenced elaborates your questions in detail if you keep reading onwards until the end of the post

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12981.msg106616#msg106616

Please study the Arabic of 4101-102 and the English translation while going through the post which should help.

Brother ImamQuranOnly has also explained this in his post

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=14109.0

Summarily, 4101 tells us to shorten the salat during war and 4102 gives the actual example in which the leader of the salat performs 2 units (one for each group), and each group performs only one unit. "When they have prostrated" signifies the end of salaat for the first group and then they switch positions with the second group which then also performs one unit.

Only the groups shorten the salaat but the leader performs the full salaat. Thus 4102 gives example of both shortened salaat (for each group) and the full salaat (for the leader). Thus shortened salaat = one unit and one sujood (performed by each group) and the full salaat = 2 units and total 2 sujood (performed by the leader).

unknownuser

Peace Brother Tanveer,

When It comes to Laws, Quran gives its instruction clearly and we do not need to stretch the verses to derive a meaning. Like in the case of when you lend right it down, what is permissible to eat and what is not, what relations you cannot marry with, how to distribute wealth when you die, etc, this is the style of Quran.

In this case you derive
The verb <AQIMS SALATA> is used to mean a complete salat.

In the verse 4102 just an example is given for two groups to tell the believers what their strategy should be in the difficult situation say war. If there are more than two groups the leader has to perform more units, so saying that 2 units in a salaat is a law cannot be true. Because one can also derive from the verse that there should be only two groups in war to perform salaat not less not more, and ofcourse this is not what verse is saying and thus is stretched meaning. And also for some reason if I reduce my salaat do you think it is not Aqims Salaat?

I believe these details are left to us Alhamdulillah. It has saved the humanity from lot of trouble. From the Quran we only know three basic positions that is standing, bowing and prostrating. All other details are left to us because no law is given for that.

With Respect, Hamsa

unknownuser

As Salaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah

After that diligent study of Quran I've come to this conclusion

How to perform As Salaat.

Ablution
As we are instructed in Al Quraan (56), washing before the two times of Salaat service is conducted in the following manner

Y 'Ayyuh Al-Ladhna 'man 'Idh Qumtum 'Il? A-alati Fghsil Wujhakum Wa 'Aydiyakum 'Il? Al-Marfiqi Wa Amsa Biru'sikum Wa 'Arjulakum 'Il? Al-Kabayni Wa 'In Kuntum Junuban Fa Aahhar Wa 'In Kuntum Mar? 'Aw Al? Safarin 'Aw J'a 'Aadun Minkum Mina Al-Gh'ii 'Aw Lmastumu An-Nis' Falam Tajid M'an Fatayammam adan ayyiban Fmsa Biwujhikum Wa 'Aydkum Minhu M Yurdu Allhu Liyajala Alaykum Min arajin Wa Lakin Yurdu Liyuahhirakum Waliyutimma Nimatahu Alaykum Laallakum Tashkurna

O you who believe! when you rise up to prayer

wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows,
and wipe off your heads and your feet to the ankles;

and if you are under an obligation to perform a total ablution, then wash (yourselves) and if you are sick or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy, or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth and wipe your faces and your hands therewith, Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.

Qiblah
Eventhough there is some questioning to this, the basis of the Qiblah is in the Quraan and in the arabic. The direction to which we set ourselves in prayer is Makkah

Qad Nar? Taqalluba Wajhika F As-Sam'i Falanuwalliyannaka Qiblatan Tarh Fawalli Wajhaka Shara Al-Masjidi Al-armi Wa aythu M Kuntum Fawall Wujhakum Sharahu Wa 'Inna Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Layalamna 'Annahu Al-aqqu Min Rabbihim Wa M Allhu Bighfilin Amm Ya`malna

Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towards the Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, and those who have been given the Book most surely know that it is the truth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do.

2142-150

Allah says Fawalli Wajhaka Shara Al-Masjidi Al-armi Wa aythu M Kuntum Fawall Wujhakum Sharahu
Turn your face in the direction of the Sacred Masjid and from where you might be, turn your faces in its direction.

Now some may argue the science of meridians and lattitudes. I leave that to their understanding. As for me, I align myself to the Masjid al Haraam (Al Kaabah).

As Salaat

Opening

Before we commence with the Salaat, we are instructed to

Fa'idh Qara'ta Al-Qur'na Fsta`idh Billhi Mina Ash-Shayni Ar-Rajmi
So when you recite the Quran, seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Shaitan
1698

So Allah tells us to say

Wa Qul Rabbi 'A`dhu Bika Min Hamazti Ash-Shayni
And say O my Lord! I seek refuge in Thee from the evil suggestions of the Shaitans

Wa 'A`dhu Bika Rabbi 'An Yaurni
And I seek refuge in Thee! O my Lord! from their presence.
2397-98

Then we open the Salaat with

Dawhum Fh Subnaka Al-Lahumma Wa Tayatuhum Fh Salmun Wa 'khiru Dawhum 'Ani Al-amdu Lillhi Rabbi Al-`lamna
Their supplication in it shall be Glory to Thee, O Allah! and their greeting in it shall be Peace; and the last of their cry shall be Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds 1010

Followed by

Wa Quli Al-amdu Lillhi Al-Ladh Lam Yattakhidh Waladan Wa Lam Yakun Lahu Sharkun F Al-Mulki Wa Lam Yakun Lahu Wa Lyun Mina Adh-Dhulli Wa Kabbirhu Takbran
And say (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who has not a helper to save Him from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him). 17110

We Follow this by reciting from the Quran.

(note There are conditions as to which verses we can use from the Quran in our Salaat.
a) First they must not mention any beings alongside ALLAH

Wa 'Anna Al-Masjida Lillhi Fal Tad Maa Allhi 'Aadan
And that the mosques are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah, Alone.
(also reference 1336; 2014; 721

b) Secondly they must not contain references to the prophets/messengers

mana Ar-Raslu Bim 'Unzila 'Ilayhi Min Rabbihi Wa Al-Mu'uminna Kullun 'mana Billhi Wa Mal'ikatihi Wa Kutubihi Wa Rusulihi L Nufarriqu Bayna 'Aadin Min Rusulihi Wa Ql Samin Wa 'Aan Ghufrnaka Rabban Wa 'Ilayka Al-Maru
The apostle believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His apostles; We make no difference between any of His apostles; and they say We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course. 2285
(also reference 2136; 384; 4150-152; 2759)

c) Thirdly they must inspire rememberance of Allah
~
'Innan 'An Allhu L 'Ilha 'Ill 'An F`budn Wa 'Aqimi A-alata Lidhikr
Surely I am Allah, there is no god but 1, therefore serve Me and keep up prayer for My remembrance 2014)

Prostration
After the recitation of the above then we move into the position of Sajdah
(reference 17107, 109; 7206; 9112; 2277; 2564; 26219; 3215; 399)

While in this position we recite
~ ~
Qul 'min Bihi 'Aw L Tu'umin 'Inna Al-Ladhna 't Al-Ilma Min Qablihi 'Idh Yutl? Alayhim Yakhirrna Lil'adhqni Sujjadan
Say Believe in it or believe not; surely those who are given the knowledge before it fall down on their faces, making obeisance when it is recited to them.

Wa Yaqlna Subna Rabbin 'In Kna Wadu Rabbin Lamaflan
And they say Glory be to our Lord! most surely the promise of our Lord was to be fulfilled. 17107-108

This commences with one rakaat

Second Rakaat- do exactly the same as the first rakaat
End of prayers-
To mark the end of your prayers

Dawhum Fh Subnaka Al-Lahumma Wa Tayatuhum Fh Salmun Wa 'khiru Dawhum 'Ani Al-amdu Lillhi Rabbi Al-`lamna
Their supplication in it shall be Glory to Thee, O Allah! and their greeting in it shall be Peace; and the ending of their supplication shall be Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds

(As Allah points out in 4100-103 the number of minimum rakaat is two)

As for times of prayer they are Salaatul fajr and Salaatul Isha (check with some of Tanveer's threads for evidences).

As salaamu Alaykum

unknownuser

Peace brother Abdul,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Just for now one correction.

As Allah points out in 4100-103 the number of minimum rakaat is two

In the verse 4100-103 the number of minimum rakaat mentioned is one not two. And the upper limit is left to us, which can be 2, 3 or 4 according to time and requirements.

Peace, Hamsa

Samia

Qiblah
Eventhough there is some questioning to this, the basis of the Qiblah is in the Quraan and in the arabic. The direction to which we set ourselves in prayer is Makkah

Qad Nar? Taqalluba Wajhika F As-Sam'i Falanuwalliyannaka Qiblatan Tarh Fawalli Wajhaka Shara Al-Masjidi Al-armi Wa aythu M Kuntum Fawall Wujhakum Sharahu Wa 'Inna Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Layalamna 'Annahu Al-aqqu Min Rabbihim Wa M Allhu Bighfilin Amm Ya`malna

Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towards the Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, and those who have been given the Book most surely know that it is the truth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do.

2142-150

Allah says Fawalli Wajhaka Shara Al-Masjidi Al-armi Wa aythu M Kuntum Fawall Wujhakum Sharahu
Turn your face in the direction of the Sacred Masjid and from where you might be.
Now some may argue the science of meridians and lattitudes. I leave that to their understanding. As for me, I align myself to the Masjid al Haraam (Al Kaabah).

A more accurate translation of the part in bold is Wherever you might be.

What's the link between this verse and salaat?

"Wherever you might be" is not synonymous to "when you are praying". Wherever I might be includes when I am at work, shopping, doing housewrk, socializing, taking a bath, sleeping, among hundreds of other possibilities....Should I be facing "Makkah" during all these activities?

unknownuser

Hello all

There is nothing in 4100-103 that states the min number of Rakaas, infact Rukoo was never mentioned, nor one rakaa neither two rakaa for that matter, so for those who cliam this allegation, where they got it from exactly?

Cheers

unknownuser

As Salaamu Alaykum..

I'm a true adherent of the term context. Not only does that mean ascertaining the true meaning of a verse by its position among a chapter and its direct relation to the verses which precede/follow it but also other verses which clarify it.

The word Qiblah carries the meaning focal point, direction.

It is used in this connotation when Allah says
Wa 'Awayn 'Il? Ms? Wa 'Akhhi 'An Tabawwa' Liqawmikum Bimira Buytan Wa Aj`al Buytakum Qiblatan Wa 'Aqm A-alata Wa Bashshiri Al-Mu'uminna

~

And we inspired Musa and his brother of our will, saying ?In Egypt is your homes, and make your homes Qiblahs (focal points) and stand for the Salaat and give good news to the believers!?

So the connotation of the term Qiblah (or direction, focal point) is within the context of Salaat.
With the meaning being that your house should become your Masjid.

Secondly the context of prayer is included here as well because at the end of the qiblah vignette (2142-150) in the Quran is this verse

Y 'Ayyuh Al-Ladhna 'man Astan Bi-abri Wa A-alati 'Inna Allha Maa A-birna
O you who believe! seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient.
2153

And then it moves into the martyrs and testing.

Third we have to look at context of the Qiblah

Wa La'in 'Atayta Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Bikulli 'yatin M Tabi Qiblataka Wa M 'Anta Bitbiin Qiblatahum Wa M Bauhum Bitbiin Qiblata Bain Wa La'ini Attabata 'Ahw'ahum Min Badi M J'aka Mina Al-Ilmi 'Innaka 'Idhan Lamina A?-?limna

And even if you bring to those who have been given the Book every sign they would not follow your qiblah, nor can you be a follower of their qiblah, neither are they the followers of each other's qiblah, and if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you shall most surely be among the unjust.

Now the Qiblah of the jews was Jerusalem (Yeruwshalayim) and more specifically Ha Beit Mikdash (the Temple) whcih was destroyed in 70 a.d. Even before that though while the Jews were in Babylon, Jerusalem was used at the focal point or direction (Qiblah) of prayer (i.e. Daniel facing jersualem three times in prayer 610).
We also know that Solomon used it as his Qiblah in prayer and begged Allah for it to be his Qiblah for prayer in 1st Kings 822-44 (specifically 1Kgs 830 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant and of thy people Israel, when they pray toward this place; yea, hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place; and when thou hearest, forgive) Any service of prayer included a Minyan (a quorum of atleast 10 male jews) for Shakharit, Mincha, or Ma'ariv could only be made in the direction of Jerusalem.

Fourthly, if Makkah was only a focal point in "the minds" or "mentally" as Tanveer pointed out, how could it possibly be a test for

Wa M Jaaln Al-Qiblata Allat Kunta Alayh 'Ill Linalama Man Yattabiu Ar-Rasla Mimman Yanqalibu Al? Aqibayhi Wa 'In Knat Lakabratan 'Ill Al? Al-Ladhna Had? Allhu Wa M Kna Allhu Liyua 'mnakum 'Inna Allha Bin-Nsi Lara'fun Ramun

and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people. 2143

Remember according to Quran 568

Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people

and 566

And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do

They would've kept their Qiblah as it is incumbent upon them at three parts of the year to appear in Jerusalem (Ex 2314-17, Deut 6) and the Masjid al Haraam would've just been an additional house of prostration or holy place for them.
It would'nt have tested the polytheists, because thet would've been more than happy to pray towards the Masjid Al Haraam (for sake of clarity Makkah) since Makkah was always their holy place.
So to sum up the above it wouldn't have separated the munafiqun among the jews if it was purely mental, nor the polythiests. The only way it could've done so, was if it was a part of an observance that would've required one changing an original direction or focal point for another choice of focal point or direction.

Lastly as Samia points out that if she was shopping or doing other activities should she always face the Qiblah. Of course not. So then what context is this verse in. Well since the context for Qiblah outside of these passages involves salaat, that the context in the old testament was also Salaat, that it would only make sense as a test if it was a physical location not a mental one, that there would've been no problem with the jews keepingboth jeruslaem and makkah as holy places if it was just that context, then the answer to my understanding seems clear during Salaat, set your direction of prayer towards Makkah.

Ma salaam

unknownuser

Hello all
There is nothing in 4100-103 that states the min number of Rakaas, infact Rukoo was never mentioned, nor one rakaa neither two rakaa for that matter, so for those who cliam this allegation, where they got it from exactly?
Cheers

Peace Brother AhmedBahgat,

Thanks for clarification. So one may also derive from the verse that in the shortened salaat Rukoo is also not included. Would you please explain your understanding of the verse 101-102. And why you think that these verses do not mention the minimum number of Rakaat.

Thanks, Hamsa

unknownuser

As Salaamu Alaykum..

I'm a true adherent of the term context. Not only does that mean ascertaining the true meaning of a verse by its position among a chapter and its direct relation to the verses which precede/follow it but also other verses which clarify it.

The word Qiblah carries the meaning focal point, direction.

It is used in this connotation when Allah says
Wa 'Awayn 'Il? Ms? Wa 'Akhhi 'An Tabawwa' Liqawmikum Bimira Buytan Wa Aj`al Buytakum Qiblatan Wa 'Aqm A-alata Wa Bashshiri Al-Mu'uminna

~

And we inspired Musa and his brother of our will, saying ?In Egypt is your homes, and make your homes Qiblahs (focal points) and stand for the Salaat and give good news to the believers!?

So the connotation of the term Qiblah (or direction, focal point) is within the context of Salaat.
With the meaning being that your house should become your Masjid.

Secondly the context of prayer is included here as well because at the end of the qiblah vignette (2142-150) in the Quran is this verse

Y 'Ayyuh Al-Ladhna 'man Astan Bi-abri Wa A-alati 'Inna Allha Maa A-birna
O you who believe! seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient.
2153

And then it moves into the martyrs and testing.

Third we have to look at context of the Qiblah

Wa La'in 'Atayta Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Bikulli 'yatin M Tabi Qiblataka Wa M 'Anta Bitbiin Qiblatahum Wa M Bauhum Bitbiin Qiblata Bain Wa La'ini Attabata 'Ahw'ahum Min Badi M J'aka Mina Al-Ilmi 'Innaka 'Idhan Lamina A?-?limna

And even if you bring to those who have been given the Book every sign they would not follow your qiblah, nor can you be a follower of their qiblah, neither are they the followers of each other's qiblah, and if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you shall most surely be among the unjust.

Now the Qiblah of the jews was Jerusalem (Yeruwshalayim) and more specifically Ha Beit Mikdash (the Temple) whcih was destroyed in 70 a.d. Even before that though while the Jews were in Babylon, Jerusalem was used at the focal point or direction (Qiblah) of prayer (i.e. Daniel facing jersualem three times in prayer 610).
We also know that Solomon used it as his Qiblah in prayer and begged Allah for it to be his Qiblah for prayer in 1st Kings 822-44 (specifically 1Kgs 830 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant and of thy people Israel, when they pray toward this place; yea, hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place; and when thou hearest, forgive) Any service of prayer included a Minyan (a quorum of atleast 10 male jews) for Shakharit, Mincha, or Ma'ariv could only be made in the direction of Jerusalem.

Fourthly, if Makkah was only a focal point in "the minds" or "mentally" as Tanveer pointed out, how could it possibly be a test for

Wa M Jaaln Al-Qiblata Allat Kunta Alayh 'Ill Linalama Man Yattabiu Ar-Rasla Mimman Yanqalibu Al? Aqibayhi Wa 'In Knat Lakabratan 'Ill Al? Al-Ladhna Had? Allhu Wa M Kna Allhu Liyua 'mnakum 'Inna Allha Bin-Nsi Lara'fun Ramun

and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people. 2143

Remember according to Quran 568

Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people

and 566

And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do

They would've kept their Qiblah as it is incumbent upon them at three parts of the year to appear in Jerusalem (Ex 2314-17, Deut 6) and the Masjid al Haraam would've just been an additional house of prostration or holy place for them.
It would'nt have tested the polytheists, because thet would've been more than happy to pray towards the Masjid Al Haraam (for sake of clarity Makkah) since Makkah was always their holy place.
So to sum up the above it wouldn't have separated the munafiqun among the jews if it was purely mental, nor the polythiests. The only way it could've done so, was if it was a part of an observance that would've required one changing an original direction or focal point for another choice of focal point or direction.

Lastly as Samia points out that if she was shopping or doing other activities should she always face the Qiblah. Of course not. So then what context is this verse in. Well since the context for Qiblah outside of these passages involves salaat, that the context in the old testament was also Salaat, that it would only make sense as a test if it was a physical location not a mental one, that there would've been no problem with the jews keepingboth jeruslaem and makkah as holy places if it was just that context, then the answer to my understanding seems clear during Salaat, set your direction of prayer towards Makkah.

Ma salaam

Good post

Cheers

ayman

Peace Lahri,

The word Qiblah carries the meaning focal point, direction.
It is used in this connotation when Allah says
Wa 'Awayn 'Il? Ms? Wa 'Akhhi 'An Tabawwa' Liqawmikum Bimira Buytan Wa Aj`al Buytakum Qiblatan Wa 'Aqm A-alata Wa Bashshiri Al-Mu'uminna
~
And we inspired Musa and his brother of our will, saying ?In Egypt is your homes, and make your homes Qiblahs (focal points) and stand for the Salaat and give good news to the believers!?
So the connotation of the term Qiblah (or direction, focal point) is within the context of Salaat.
With the meaning being that your house should become your Masjid.

How do you suppose one can take his house as a "direction of prayer" while "praying inside his house" as you claim? One of the people of Moses is now inside his house. You are telling him to take his house as a direction or a focal point. You are telling him that "salat" means prayer and that "the context" indicates that he should pray while facing his house while he is inside his house!!! Surely, you can see that what you are saying doesn't make any sense.

If you really know what 1087 is talking about and you really believe that "qibla" is a physical direction of prayer, then please tell us where the people of Moses faced while they were inside or outside their houses (praying or otherwise).

Secondly the context of prayer is included here as well because at the end of the qiblah vignette (2142-150) in the Quran is this verse

Y 'Ayyuh Al-Ladhna 'man Astan Bi-abri Wa A-alati 'Inna Allha Maa A-birna
O you who believe! seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient.
2153
And then it moves into the martyrs and testing.

Many other things are mentioned in 2151-152. Why did you jump ahead to 153? Are 2151-152 haphazard out of context interjections? In 2153 the word "sabr"/patience is mentioned even before "salat". Since you are claiming that the mention of "salat" in 2153 implies that we are to pray only when we are supposed to be facing some town in Saudi Arabia, then if we apply your logic then are we supposed to only have patience while facing some town in Saudi Arabia?

I think that Hamsa put it really well when he said "whatever article I've read before about deriving the method of Salaat from Quran alone was nothing more than twisting the verses of Quran?What I have concluded, after reading all Quran alone salaat methods with twisting the vrese, that these details are not necassry or may be the Salaat we've been fighting since ages is unfounded!"

I think that this is the real issue. People have this preconception about "salat" being a ritual and therefore they are desperately looking for the "method" of their ritual. Of course they can?t find it and hence as Hamsa said they have to twist the meaning of every passage they can dig out to support their preconceptions. They are not supporting the truth. They are supporting their own preconceptions.

Third we have to look at context of the Qiblah

Wa La'in 'Atayta Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Bikulli 'yatin M Tabi Qiblataka Wa M 'Anta Bitbiin Qiblatahum Wa M Bauhum Bitbiin Qiblata Bain Wa La'ini Attabata 'Ahw'ahum Min Badi M J'aka Mina Al-Ilmi 'Innaka 'Idhan Lamina A?-?limna
And even if you bring to those who have been given the Book every sign they would not follow your qiblah, nor can you be a follower of their qiblah, neither are they the followers of each other's qiblah, and if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you shall most surely be among the unjust.
Now the Qiblah of the jews was Jerusalem (Yeruwshalayim) and more specifically Ha Beit Mikdash (the Temple) whcih was destroyed in 70 a.d. Even before that though while the Jews were in Babylon, Jerusalem was used at the focal point or direction (Qiblah) of prayer (i.e. Daniel facing jersualem three times in prayer 610).
We also know that Solomon used it as his Qiblah in prayer and begged Allah for it to be his Qiblah for prayer in 1st Kings 822-44 (specifically 1Kgs 830 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant and of thy people Israel, when they pray toward this place; yea, hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place; and when thou hearest, forgive) Any service of prayer included a Minyan (a quorum of atleast 10 male jews) for Shakharit, Mincha, or Ma'ariv could only be made in the direction of Jerusalem.

If you continue reading to 2146, you will see that the people of the book know the truth about the real "qibla". Yet no one from the people of the book knows anything about so-called Mecca. Is the god exaggerating in 2146? I don't think so.

What did all the prophets face? Did they face Mecca? Did Jesus face Mecca? Did Moses face Mecca? No. They all faced the same thing. It is the thing that when they face, they are on the straight path as per 2142. We can be as certain that this thing is not Mecca as much as we are certain that the straight path is not a highway to Mecca.

Fourthly, if Makkah was only a focal point in "the minds" or "mentally" as Tanveer pointed out, how could it possibly be a test for
Wa M Jaaln Al-Qiblata Allat Kunta Alayh 'Ill Linalama Man Yattabiu Ar-Rasla Mimman Yanqalibu Al? Aqibayhi Wa 'In Knat Lakabratan 'Ill Al? Al-Ladhna Had? Allhu Wa M Kna Allhu Liyua 'mnakum 'Inna Allha Bin-Nsi Lara'fun Ramun
and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people. 2143

How can facing Mecca be a test for anything? Do you think that hypocrites can't face Mecca? This is of course ridiculous. In fact, hypocrites thrive on superficial gestures such as saluting the flag while pretending to be patriots and facing a certain shrine while pretending to follow the messenger.

You bring 2143 and ask Tanveer but you conveniently forget to ask the same question to yourself and of course this is because you can't provide a logical answer.

Remember according to Quran 568

Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people
and 566

And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do

So are 568 and 566 talking about facing some town in Saudi Arabia? Is this the criterion? Or is it keeping up the previous books that contain the truth from their lord? Is the focus some shrine in Saudi Arabia or is it the truth from their lord? Aren't we told that "al-masjid al-haram" is none other than the truth from our lord in 2144? Is the truth from our lord the book or some shrine?

They would've kept their Qiblah as it is incumbent upon them at three parts of the year to appear in Jerusalem (Ex 2314-17, Deut 6) and the Masjid al Haraam would've just been an additional house of prostration or holy place for them.
It would'nt have tested the polytheists, because thet would've been more than happy to pray towards the Masjid Al Haraam (for sake of clarity Makkah) since Makkah was always their holy place.
So to sum up the above it wouldn't have separated the munafiqun among the jews if it was purely mental, nor the polythiests. The only way it could've done so, was if it was a part of an observance that would've required one changing an original direction or focal point for another choice of focal point or direction.

Pagans, Christians and Jews shared the same falsehood. They all prayed towards their shrine. The sectarians' only excuse is that "our shrine is better than theirs". But this is what they all say.

How was Mecca always their holy place? Did Jesus ever hear of Mecca let alone go to Mecca? Did Moses ever go to Mecca or even talk or heard about it? Did Solomon, David, and all the prophets go to Mecca? How come no one except sectarians claims that Abraham went to Mecca? In fact, none of the people of the book ever heard of this place called Mecca prior to the middle of the 8th century CE, long after the death of the prophet.

Lastly as Samia points out that if she was shopping or doing other activities should she always face the Qiblah. Of course not. So then what context is this verse in. Well since the context for Qiblah outside of these passages involves salaat, that the context in the old testament was also Salaat, that it would only make sense as a test if it was a physical location not a mental one, that there would've been no problem with the jews keepingboth jeruslaem and makkah as holy places if it was just that context, then the answer to my understanding seems clear during Salaat, set your direction of prayer towards Makkah.

2142-150 are pretty clear that "wherever you are" you should face the "qibla". It doesn't say only where you pray, or on the prayer rug, or in the Mosque.

Jumping ahead to other passages and thoroughly digging around for any passage to bring such as 1087 and then failing to see its implications only demonstrates what Hamsa was talking about, which is nothing more than twisting the passages to support a certain preconception.

I advise you to take this as an opportunity for a clean start to understanding "salat", "qibla", "masjid", etc. without starting from preconceptions and then working backwards to justify them.

Peace,

Ayman

unknownuser

Peace Brother AhmedBahgat,

Thanks for clarification. So one may also derive from the verse that in the shortened salaat Rukoo is also not included. Would you please explain your understanding of the verse 101-102. And why you think that these verses do not mention the minimum number of Rakaat.

Thanks, Hamsa

Salam bro Hamsa

Sure,

100 And whoever migrate in Allah's way, he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Messenger, and then death overtakes him, his reward is indeed with Allah and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

101 And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy.

102 And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them, let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear, and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions; surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.

103 Then when you have finished the prayer, remember Allah standing and sitting and reclining; but when you are secure (from danger) keep up prayer; surely prayer is a timed ordinance for the believers.

(100)
(101)
(102)
(103)

-> Verse 100 is encouraging the people to migrate in Allah ways and if we do then we will find a lot of resources in other lands ?And whoever migrate in Allah's way, he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources,?, then the verse is telling us that whoever migrate to Allah and His messenger and dies then his/her reward is with Allah [b? and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Messenger, and then death overtakes him, his reward is indeed with Allah and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?, no mention of Salat at all

-> Verse 101 is telling us that we are allowed to shorten our Salat if we travel in the land, however the Salat shortening can only be experienced if we travel in the land of disbelievers (our enemy) who might try to cause distress to us because of our belief ? And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy. ?, while the Salat is mentioned, only shortening it was mentioned, the verse never told us by how much we should shorten it nor the min number of rakaas in this case or other cases.

-> Verse 102 is a message to the prophet (however it can be implemented by other believers if the circumstances are the same), the message is simply as follow, if the prophet is with a group of believers and called for the Salat to be started ?And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them,?, then the prophet may allow another group to not to take part of the salat with them but stand behind them to protect them from the enemy while the first group is performing the Salat ? let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear,", then when the first group finish the Salat, the second group who was talking guard can do the Salat while the first group take guard ?and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; ?, this message is because at the time of the prophet the Kafiroon were so hostie to the believers at that time? (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, ?, very clear,, now Allah has excused those who were harmed or hit by rain or sick not to take part of defending the believers while they perform the salat in this hostile enjoinment ?and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions;? at the end of the j day, this is what is the disbelievers will earn ? surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.?, the Salat was mentioned again, however there was no mention to how man rakaas, nor the min number of Rakaas, neither the action of rukoo,

-> Verse 103 is telling us what the believers should do after the Salat is finished, ?Then when you have finished the prayer, remember Allah standing and sitting and reclining;?, and whenever there is no danger from the disbelievers we should perform the Salat normally and without implementing the above advice in verse 102?but when you are secure (from danger) keep up prayer; surely prayer is a timed ordinance for the believers.?, the Salat was mentioned again, but there was no number of Rakaa mentioned, nor min number of rakaas neither the action of rukoo

Therefore those who say 4102 is telling us that the min number of Rakaas are 1 or 2 according to 4100-103 don?t really know what they are talking about

Salam bro

unknownuser

Salaam Brother AhmedBahgat,

Thanks for your input and I understand this is clear that this verse 4102 is not about how many rakaat should we have in our salaat. One has to derive that meaning from the verse as one can derive many other meanings from it. So its really not recommendable because it is not what being said in the verse. Quran gives its instructions clearly and we do not need to twist its verses.

Peace to all bros, Hamsa

unknownuser

To ayman...

I promise you a detailed reply within the next few days.

Abdul Latif