Introduction and Preface to: HOW TO PERFORM AS-SALAAT ACCORDING TO THE QUR?AN...

unknownuser

As Salaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah

After that diligent study of Quran I've come to this conclusion

How to perform As Salaat.

Ablution
As we are instructed in Al Quraan (56), washing before the two times of Salaat service is conducted in the following manner

Y 'Ayyuh Al-Ladhna 'man 'Idh Qumtum 'Il? A-alati Fghsil Wujhakum Wa 'Aydiyakum 'Il? Al-Marfiqi Wa Amsa Biru'sikum Wa 'Arjulakum 'Il? Al-Kabayni Wa 'In Kuntum Junuban Fa Aahhar Wa 'In Kuntum Mar? 'Aw Al? Safarin 'Aw J'a 'Aadun Minkum Mina Al-Gh'ii 'Aw Lmastumu An-Nis' Falam Tajid M'an Fatayammam adan ayyiban Fmsa Biwujhikum Wa 'Aydkum Minhu M Yurdu Allhu Liyajala Alaykum Min arajin Wa Lakin Yurdu Liyuahhirakum Waliyutimma Nimatahu Alaykum Laallakum Tashkurna

O you who believe! when you rise up to prayer

wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows,
and wipe off your heads and your feet to the ankles;

and if you are under an obligation to perform a total ablution, then wash (yourselves) and if you are sick or on a journey, or one of you come from the privy, or you have touched the women, and you cannot find water, betake yourselves to pure earth and wipe your faces and your hands therewith, Allah does not desire to put on you any difficulty, but He wishes to purify you and that He may complete His favor on you, so that you may be grateful.

Qiblah
Eventhough there is some questioning to this, the basis of the Qiblah is in the Quraan and in the arabic. The direction to which we set ourselves in prayer is Makkah

Qad Nar? Taqalluba Wajhika F As-Sam'i Falanuwalliyannaka Qiblatan Tarh Fawalli Wajhaka Shara Al-Masjidi Al-armi Wa aythu M Kuntum Fawall Wujhakum Sharahu Wa 'Inna Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Layalamna 'Annahu Al-aqqu Min Rabbihim Wa M Allhu Bighfilin Amm Ya`malna

Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towards the Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, and those who have been given the Book most surely know that it is the truth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do.

2142-150

Allah says Fawalli Wajhaka Shara Al-Masjidi Al-armi Wa aythu M Kuntum Fawall Wujhakum Sharahu
Turn your face in the direction of the Sacred Masjid and from where you might be, turn your faces in its direction.

Now some may argue the science of meridians and lattitudes. I leave that to their understanding. As for me, I align myself to the Masjid al Haraam (Al Kaabah).

As Salaat

Opening

Before we commence with the Salaat, we are instructed to

Fa'idh Qara'ta Al-Qur'na Fsta`idh Billhi Mina Ash-Shayni Ar-Rajmi
So when you recite the Quran, seek refuge with Allah from the accursed Shaitan
1698

So Allah tells us to say

Wa Qul Rabbi 'A`dhu Bika Min Hamazti Ash-Shayni
And say O my Lord! I seek refuge in Thee from the evil suggestions of the Shaitans

Wa 'A`dhu Bika Rabbi 'An Yaurni
And I seek refuge in Thee! O my Lord! from their presence.
2397-98

Then we open the Salaat with

Dawhum Fh Subnaka Al-Lahumma Wa Tayatuhum Fh Salmun Wa 'khiru Dawhum 'Ani Al-amdu Lillhi Rabbi Al-`lamna
Their supplication in it shall be Glory to Thee, O Allah! and their greeting in it shall be Peace; and the last of their cry shall be Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds 1010

Followed by

Wa Quli Al-amdu Lillhi Al-Ladh Lam Yattakhidh Waladan Wa Lam Yakun Lahu Sharkun F Al-Mulki Wa Lam Yakun Lahu Wa Lyun Mina Adh-Dhulli Wa Kabbirhu Takbran
And say (All) praise is due to Allah, Who has not taken a son and Who has not a partner in the kingdom, and Who has not a helper to save Him from disgrace; and proclaim His greatness magnifying (Him). 17110

We Follow this by reciting from the Quran.

(note There are conditions as to which verses we can use from the Quran in our Salaat.
a) First they must not mention any beings alongside ALLAH

Wa 'Anna Al-Masjida Lillhi Fal Tad Maa Allhi 'Aadan
And that the mosques are Allah's, therefore call not upon any one with Allah, Alone.
(also reference 1336; 2014; 721

b) Secondly they must not contain references to the prophets/messengers

mana Ar-Raslu Bim 'Unzila 'Ilayhi Min Rabbihi Wa Al-Mu'uminna Kullun 'mana Billhi Wa Mal'ikatihi Wa Kutubihi Wa Rusulihi L Nufarriqu Bayna 'Aadin Min Rusulihi Wa Ql Samin Wa 'Aan Ghufrnaka Rabban Wa 'Ilayka Al-Maru
The apostle believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers; they all believe in Allah and His angels and His books and His apostles; We make no difference between any of His apostles; and they say We hear and obey, our Lord! Thy forgiveness (do we crave), and to Thee is the eventual course. 2285
(also reference 2136; 384; 4150-152; 2759)

c) Thirdly they must inspire rememberance of Allah
~
'Innan 'An Allhu L 'Ilha 'Ill 'An F`budn Wa 'Aqimi A-alata Lidhikr
Surely I am Allah, there is no god but 1, therefore serve Me and keep up prayer for My remembrance 2014)

Prostration
After the recitation of the above then we move into the position of Sajdah
(reference 17107, 109; 7206; 9112; 2277; 2564; 26219; 3215; 399)

While in this position we recite
~ ~
Qul 'min Bihi 'Aw L Tu'umin 'Inna Al-Ladhna 't Al-Ilma Min Qablihi 'Idh Yutl? Alayhim Yakhirrna Lil'adhqni Sujjadan
Say Believe in it or believe not; surely those who are given the knowledge before it fall down on their faces, making obeisance when it is recited to them.

Wa Yaqlna Subna Rabbin 'In Kna Wadu Rabbin Lamaflan
And they say Glory be to our Lord! most surely the promise of our Lord was to be fulfilled. 17107-108

This commences with one rakaat

Second Rakaat- do exactly the same as the first rakaat
End of prayers-
To mark the end of your prayers

Dawhum Fh Subnaka Al-Lahumma Wa Tayatuhum Fh Salmun Wa 'khiru Dawhum 'Ani Al-amdu Lillhi Rabbi Al-`lamna
Their supplication in it shall be Glory to Thee, O Allah! and their greeting in it shall be Peace; and the ending of their supplication shall be Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds

(As Allah points out in 4100-103 the number of minimum rakaat is two)

As for times of prayer they are Salaatul fajr and Salaatul Isha (check with some of Tanveer's threads for evidences).

As salaamu Alaykum

unknownuser

Peace brother Abdul,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Just for now one correction.

As Allah points out in 4100-103 the number of minimum rakaat is two

In the verse 4100-103 the number of minimum rakaat mentioned is one not two. And the upper limit is left to us, which can be 2, 3 or 4 according to time and requirements.

Peace, Hamsa

Samia

Qiblah
Eventhough there is some questioning to this, the basis of the Qiblah is in the Quraan and in the arabic. The direction to which we set ourselves in prayer is Makkah

Qad Nar? Taqalluba Wajhika F As-Sam'i Falanuwalliyannaka Qiblatan Tarh Fawalli Wajhaka Shara Al-Masjidi Al-armi Wa aythu M Kuntum Fawall Wujhakum Sharahu Wa 'Inna Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Layalamna 'Annahu Al-aqqu Min Rabbihim Wa M Allhu Bighfilin Amm Ya`malna

Indeed We see the turning of your face to heaven, so We shall surely turn you to a qiblah which you shall like; turn then your face towards the Sacred Mosque, and wherever you are, turn your face towards it, and those who have been given the Book most surely know that it is the truth from their Lord; and Allah is not at all heedless of what they do.

2142-150

Allah says Fawalli Wajhaka Shara Al-Masjidi Al-armi Wa aythu M Kuntum Fawall Wujhakum Sharahu
Turn your face in the direction of the Sacred Masjid and from where you might be.
Now some may argue the science of meridians and lattitudes. I leave that to their understanding. As for me, I align myself to the Masjid al Haraam (Al Kaabah).

A more accurate translation of the part in bold is Wherever you might be.

What's the link between this verse and salaat?

"Wherever you might be" is not synonymous to "when you are praying". Wherever I might be includes when I am at work, shopping, doing housewrk, socializing, taking a bath, sleeping, among hundreds of other possibilities....Should I be facing "Makkah" during all these activities?

unknownuser

Hello all

There is nothing in 4100-103 that states the min number of Rakaas, infact Rukoo was never mentioned, nor one rakaa neither two rakaa for that matter, so for those who cliam this allegation, where they got it from exactly?

Cheers

unknownuser

As Salaamu Alaykum..

I'm a true adherent of the term context. Not only does that mean ascertaining the true meaning of a verse by its position among a chapter and its direct relation to the verses which precede/follow it but also other verses which clarify it.

The word Qiblah carries the meaning focal point, direction.

It is used in this connotation when Allah says
Wa 'Awayn 'Il? Ms? Wa 'Akhhi 'An Tabawwa' Liqawmikum Bimira Buytan Wa Aj`al Buytakum Qiblatan Wa 'Aqm A-alata Wa Bashshiri Al-Mu'uminna

~

And we inspired Musa and his brother of our will, saying ?In Egypt is your homes, and make your homes Qiblahs (focal points) and stand for the Salaat and give good news to the believers!?

So the connotation of the term Qiblah (or direction, focal point) is within the context of Salaat.
With the meaning being that your house should become your Masjid.

Secondly the context of prayer is included here as well because at the end of the qiblah vignette (2142-150) in the Quran is this verse

Y 'Ayyuh Al-Ladhna 'man Astan Bi-abri Wa A-alati 'Inna Allha Maa A-birna
O you who believe! seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient.
2153

And then it moves into the martyrs and testing.

Third we have to look at context of the Qiblah

Wa La'in 'Atayta Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Bikulli 'yatin M Tabi Qiblataka Wa M 'Anta Bitbiin Qiblatahum Wa M Bauhum Bitbiin Qiblata Bain Wa La'ini Attabata 'Ahw'ahum Min Badi M J'aka Mina Al-Ilmi 'Innaka 'Idhan Lamina A?-?limna

And even if you bring to those who have been given the Book every sign they would not follow your qiblah, nor can you be a follower of their qiblah, neither are they the followers of each other's qiblah, and if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you shall most surely be among the unjust.

Now the Qiblah of the jews was Jerusalem (Yeruwshalayim) and more specifically Ha Beit Mikdash (the Temple) whcih was destroyed in 70 a.d. Even before that though while the Jews were in Babylon, Jerusalem was used at the focal point or direction (Qiblah) of prayer (i.e. Daniel facing jersualem three times in prayer 610).
We also know that Solomon used it as his Qiblah in prayer and begged Allah for it to be his Qiblah for prayer in 1st Kings 822-44 (specifically 1Kgs 830 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant and of thy people Israel, when they pray toward this place; yea, hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place; and when thou hearest, forgive) Any service of prayer included a Minyan (a quorum of atleast 10 male jews) for Shakharit, Mincha, or Ma'ariv could only be made in the direction of Jerusalem.

Fourthly, if Makkah was only a focal point in "the minds" or "mentally" as Tanveer pointed out, how could it possibly be a test for

Wa M Jaaln Al-Qiblata Allat Kunta Alayh 'Ill Linalama Man Yattabiu Ar-Rasla Mimman Yanqalibu Al? Aqibayhi Wa 'In Knat Lakabratan 'Ill Al? Al-Ladhna Had? Allhu Wa M Kna Allhu Liyua 'mnakum 'Inna Allha Bin-Nsi Lara'fun Ramun

and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people. 2143

Remember according to Quran 568

Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people

and 566

And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do

They would've kept their Qiblah as it is incumbent upon them at three parts of the year to appear in Jerusalem (Ex 2314-17, Deut 6) and the Masjid al Haraam would've just been an additional house of prostration or holy place for them.
It would'nt have tested the polytheists, because thet would've been more than happy to pray towards the Masjid Al Haraam (for sake of clarity Makkah) since Makkah was always their holy place.
So to sum up the above it wouldn't have separated the munafiqun among the jews if it was purely mental, nor the polythiests. The only way it could've done so, was if it was a part of an observance that would've required one changing an original direction or focal point for another choice of focal point or direction.

Lastly as Samia points out that if she was shopping or doing other activities should she always face the Qiblah. Of course not. So then what context is this verse in. Well since the context for Qiblah outside of these passages involves salaat, that the context in the old testament was also Salaat, that it would only make sense as a test if it was a physical location not a mental one, that there would've been no problem with the jews keepingboth jeruslaem and makkah as holy places if it was just that context, then the answer to my understanding seems clear during Salaat, set your direction of prayer towards Makkah.

Ma salaam

unknownuser

Hello all
There is nothing in 4100-103 that states the min number of Rakaas, infact Rukoo was never mentioned, nor one rakaa neither two rakaa for that matter, so for those who cliam this allegation, where they got it from exactly?
Cheers

Peace Brother AhmedBahgat,

Thanks for clarification. So one may also derive from the verse that in the shortened salaat Rukoo is also not included. Would you please explain your understanding of the verse 101-102. And why you think that these verses do not mention the minimum number of Rakaat.

Thanks, Hamsa

unknownuser

As Salaamu Alaykum..

I'm a true adherent of the term context. Not only does that mean ascertaining the true meaning of a verse by its position among a chapter and its direct relation to the verses which precede/follow it but also other verses which clarify it.

The word Qiblah carries the meaning focal point, direction.

It is used in this connotation when Allah says
Wa 'Awayn 'Il? Ms? Wa 'Akhhi 'An Tabawwa' Liqawmikum Bimira Buytan Wa Aj`al Buytakum Qiblatan Wa 'Aqm A-alata Wa Bashshiri Al-Mu'uminna

~

And we inspired Musa and his brother of our will, saying ?In Egypt is your homes, and make your homes Qiblahs (focal points) and stand for the Salaat and give good news to the believers!?

So the connotation of the term Qiblah (or direction, focal point) is within the context of Salaat.
With the meaning being that your house should become your Masjid.

Secondly the context of prayer is included here as well because at the end of the qiblah vignette (2142-150) in the Quran is this verse

Y 'Ayyuh Al-Ladhna 'man Astan Bi-abri Wa A-alati 'Inna Allha Maa A-birna
O you who believe! seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient.
2153

And then it moves into the martyrs and testing.

Third we have to look at context of the Qiblah

Wa La'in 'Atayta Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Bikulli 'yatin M Tabi Qiblataka Wa M 'Anta Bitbiin Qiblatahum Wa M Bauhum Bitbiin Qiblata Bain Wa La'ini Attabata 'Ahw'ahum Min Badi M J'aka Mina Al-Ilmi 'Innaka 'Idhan Lamina A?-?limna

And even if you bring to those who have been given the Book every sign they would not follow your qiblah, nor can you be a follower of their qiblah, neither are they the followers of each other's qiblah, and if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you shall most surely be among the unjust.

Now the Qiblah of the jews was Jerusalem (Yeruwshalayim) and more specifically Ha Beit Mikdash (the Temple) whcih was destroyed in 70 a.d. Even before that though while the Jews were in Babylon, Jerusalem was used at the focal point or direction (Qiblah) of prayer (i.e. Daniel facing jersualem three times in prayer 610).
We also know that Solomon used it as his Qiblah in prayer and begged Allah for it to be his Qiblah for prayer in 1st Kings 822-44 (specifically 1Kgs 830 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant and of thy people Israel, when they pray toward this place; yea, hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place; and when thou hearest, forgive) Any service of prayer included a Minyan (a quorum of atleast 10 male jews) for Shakharit, Mincha, or Ma'ariv could only be made in the direction of Jerusalem.

Fourthly, if Makkah was only a focal point in "the minds" or "mentally" as Tanveer pointed out, how could it possibly be a test for

Wa M Jaaln Al-Qiblata Allat Kunta Alayh 'Ill Linalama Man Yattabiu Ar-Rasla Mimman Yanqalibu Al? Aqibayhi Wa 'In Knat Lakabratan 'Ill Al? Al-Ladhna Had? Allhu Wa M Kna Allhu Liyua 'mnakum 'Inna Allha Bin-Nsi Lara'fun Ramun

and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people. 2143

Remember according to Quran 568

Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people

and 566

And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do

They would've kept their Qiblah as it is incumbent upon them at three parts of the year to appear in Jerusalem (Ex 2314-17, Deut 6) and the Masjid al Haraam would've just been an additional house of prostration or holy place for them.
It would'nt have tested the polytheists, because thet would've been more than happy to pray towards the Masjid Al Haraam (for sake of clarity Makkah) since Makkah was always their holy place.
So to sum up the above it wouldn't have separated the munafiqun among the jews if it was purely mental, nor the polythiests. The only way it could've done so, was if it was a part of an observance that would've required one changing an original direction or focal point for another choice of focal point or direction.

Lastly as Samia points out that if she was shopping or doing other activities should she always face the Qiblah. Of course not. So then what context is this verse in. Well since the context for Qiblah outside of these passages involves salaat, that the context in the old testament was also Salaat, that it would only make sense as a test if it was a physical location not a mental one, that there would've been no problem with the jews keepingboth jeruslaem and makkah as holy places if it was just that context, then the answer to my understanding seems clear during Salaat, set your direction of prayer towards Makkah.

Ma salaam

Good post

Cheers

ayman

Peace Lahri,

The word Qiblah carries the meaning focal point, direction.
It is used in this connotation when Allah says
Wa 'Awayn 'Il? Ms? Wa 'Akhhi 'An Tabawwa' Liqawmikum Bimira Buytan Wa Aj`al Buytakum Qiblatan Wa 'Aqm A-alata Wa Bashshiri Al-Mu'uminna
~
And we inspired Musa and his brother of our will, saying ?In Egypt is your homes, and make your homes Qiblahs (focal points) and stand for the Salaat and give good news to the believers!?
So the connotation of the term Qiblah (or direction, focal point) is within the context of Salaat.
With the meaning being that your house should become your Masjid.

How do you suppose one can take his house as a "direction of prayer" while "praying inside his house" as you claim? One of the people of Moses is now inside his house. You are telling him to take his house as a direction or a focal point. You are telling him that "salat" means prayer and that "the context" indicates that he should pray while facing his house while he is inside his house!!! Surely, you can see that what you are saying doesn't make any sense.

If you really know what 1087 is talking about and you really believe that "qibla" is a physical direction of prayer, then please tell us where the people of Moses faced while they were inside or outside their houses (praying or otherwise).

Secondly the context of prayer is included here as well because at the end of the qiblah vignette (2142-150) in the Quran is this verse

Y 'Ayyuh Al-Ladhna 'man Astan Bi-abri Wa A-alati 'Inna Allha Maa A-birna
O you who believe! seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient.
2153
And then it moves into the martyrs and testing.

Many other things are mentioned in 2151-152. Why did you jump ahead to 153? Are 2151-152 haphazard out of context interjections? In 2153 the word "sabr"/patience is mentioned even before "salat". Since you are claiming that the mention of "salat" in 2153 implies that we are to pray only when we are supposed to be facing some town in Saudi Arabia, then if we apply your logic then are we supposed to only have patience while facing some town in Saudi Arabia?

I think that Hamsa put it really well when he said "whatever article I've read before about deriving the method of Salaat from Quran alone was nothing more than twisting the verses of Quran?What I have concluded, after reading all Quran alone salaat methods with twisting the vrese, that these details are not necassry or may be the Salaat we've been fighting since ages is unfounded!"

I think that this is the real issue. People have this preconception about "salat" being a ritual and therefore they are desperately looking for the "method" of their ritual. Of course they can?t find it and hence as Hamsa said they have to twist the meaning of every passage they can dig out to support their preconceptions. They are not supporting the truth. They are supporting their own preconceptions.

Third we have to look at context of the Qiblah

Wa La'in 'Atayta Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba Bikulli 'yatin M Tabi Qiblataka Wa M 'Anta Bitbiin Qiblatahum Wa M Bauhum Bitbiin Qiblata Bain Wa La'ini Attabata 'Ahw'ahum Min Badi M J'aka Mina Al-Ilmi 'Innaka 'Idhan Lamina A?-?limna
And even if you bring to those who have been given the Book every sign they would not follow your qiblah, nor can you be a follower of their qiblah, neither are they the followers of each other's qiblah, and if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, then you shall most surely be among the unjust.
Now the Qiblah of the jews was Jerusalem (Yeruwshalayim) and more specifically Ha Beit Mikdash (the Temple) whcih was destroyed in 70 a.d. Even before that though while the Jews were in Babylon, Jerusalem was used at the focal point or direction (Qiblah) of prayer (i.e. Daniel facing jersualem three times in prayer 610).
We also know that Solomon used it as his Qiblah in prayer and begged Allah for it to be his Qiblah for prayer in 1st Kings 822-44 (specifically 1Kgs 830 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant and of thy people Israel, when they pray toward this place; yea, hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place; and when thou hearest, forgive) Any service of prayer included a Minyan (a quorum of atleast 10 male jews) for Shakharit, Mincha, or Ma'ariv could only be made in the direction of Jerusalem.

If you continue reading to 2146, you will see that the people of the book know the truth about the real "qibla". Yet no one from the people of the book knows anything about so-called Mecca. Is the god exaggerating in 2146? I don't think so.

What did all the prophets face? Did they face Mecca? Did Jesus face Mecca? Did Moses face Mecca? No. They all faced the same thing. It is the thing that when they face, they are on the straight path as per 2142. We can be as certain that this thing is not Mecca as much as we are certain that the straight path is not a highway to Mecca.

Fourthly, if Makkah was only a focal point in "the minds" or "mentally" as Tanveer pointed out, how could it possibly be a test for
Wa M Jaaln Al-Qiblata Allat Kunta Alayh 'Ill Linalama Man Yattabiu Ar-Rasla Mimman Yanqalibu Al? Aqibayhi Wa 'In Knat Lakabratan 'Ill Al? Al-Ladhna Had? Allhu Wa M Kna Allhu Liyua 'mnakum 'Inna Allha Bin-Nsi Lara'fun Ramun
and We did not make that which you would have to be the qiblah but that We might distinguish him who follows the Apostle from him who turns back upon his heels, and this was surely hard except for those whom Allah has guided aright; and Allah was not going to make your faith to be fruitless; most surely Allah is Affectionate, Merciful to the people. 2143

How can facing Mecca be a test for anything? Do you think that hypocrites can't face Mecca? This is of course ridiculous. In fact, hypocrites thrive on superficial gestures such as saluting the flag while pretending to be patriots and facing a certain shrine while pretending to follow the messenger.

You bring 2143 and ask Tanveer but you conveniently forget to ask the same question to yourself and of course this is because you can't provide a logical answer.

Remember according to Quran 568

Say O followers of the Book! you follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people
and 566

And if they had kept up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which was revealed to them from their Lord, they would certainly have eaten from above them and from beneath their feet there is a party of them keeping to the moderate course, and (as for) most of them, evil is that which they do

So are 568 and 566 talking about facing some town in Saudi Arabia? Is this the criterion? Or is it keeping up the previous books that contain the truth from their lord? Is the focus some shrine in Saudi Arabia or is it the truth from their lord? Aren't we told that "al-masjid al-haram" is none other than the truth from our lord in 2144? Is the truth from our lord the book or some shrine?

They would've kept their Qiblah as it is incumbent upon them at three parts of the year to appear in Jerusalem (Ex 2314-17, Deut 6) and the Masjid al Haraam would've just been an additional house of prostration or holy place for them.
It would'nt have tested the polytheists, because thet would've been more than happy to pray towards the Masjid Al Haraam (for sake of clarity Makkah) since Makkah was always their holy place.
So to sum up the above it wouldn't have separated the munafiqun among the jews if it was purely mental, nor the polythiests. The only way it could've done so, was if it was a part of an observance that would've required one changing an original direction or focal point for another choice of focal point or direction.

Pagans, Christians and Jews shared the same falsehood. They all prayed towards their shrine. The sectarians' only excuse is that "our shrine is better than theirs". But this is what they all say.

How was Mecca always their holy place? Did Jesus ever hear of Mecca let alone go to Mecca? Did Moses ever go to Mecca or even talk or heard about it? Did Solomon, David, and all the prophets go to Mecca? How come no one except sectarians claims that Abraham went to Mecca? In fact, none of the people of the book ever heard of this place called Mecca prior to the middle of the 8th century CE, long after the death of the prophet.

Lastly as Samia points out that if she was shopping or doing other activities should she always face the Qiblah. Of course not. So then what context is this verse in. Well since the context for Qiblah outside of these passages involves salaat, that the context in the old testament was also Salaat, that it would only make sense as a test if it was a physical location not a mental one, that there would've been no problem with the jews keepingboth jeruslaem and makkah as holy places if it was just that context, then the answer to my understanding seems clear during Salaat, set your direction of prayer towards Makkah.

2142-150 are pretty clear that "wherever you are" you should face the "qibla". It doesn't say only where you pray, or on the prayer rug, or in the Mosque.

Jumping ahead to other passages and thoroughly digging around for any passage to bring such as 1087 and then failing to see its implications only demonstrates what Hamsa was talking about, which is nothing more than twisting the passages to support a certain preconception.

I advise you to take this as an opportunity for a clean start to understanding "salat", "qibla", "masjid", etc. without starting from preconceptions and then working backwards to justify them.

Peace,

Ayman

unknownuser

Peace Brother AhmedBahgat,

Thanks for clarification. So one may also derive from the verse that in the shortened salaat Rukoo is also not included. Would you please explain your understanding of the verse 101-102. And why you think that these verses do not mention the minimum number of Rakaat.

Thanks, Hamsa

Salam bro Hamsa

Sure,

100 And whoever migrate in Allah's way, he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources, and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Messenger, and then death overtakes him, his reward is indeed with Allah and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

101 And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer, if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy.

102 And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them, let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear, and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions; surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.

103 Then when you have finished the prayer, remember Allah standing and sitting and reclining; but when you are secure (from danger) keep up prayer; surely prayer is a timed ordinance for the believers.

(100)
(101)
(102)
(103)

-> Verse 100 is encouraging the people to migrate in Allah ways and if we do then we will find a lot of resources in other lands ?And whoever migrate in Allah's way, he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources,?, then the verse is telling us that whoever migrate to Allah and His messenger and dies then his/her reward is with Allah [b? and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Messenger, and then death overtakes him, his reward is indeed with Allah and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?, no mention of Salat at all

-> Verse 101 is telling us that we are allowed to shorten our Salat if we travel in the land, however the Salat shortening can only be experienced if we travel in the land of disbelievers (our enemy) who might try to cause distress to us because of our belief ? And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy. ?, while the Salat is mentioned, only shortening it was mentioned, the verse never told us by how much we should shorten it nor the min number of rakaas in this case or other cases.

-> Verse 102 is a message to the prophet (however it can be implemented by other believers if the circumstances are the same), the message is simply as follow, if the prophet is with a group of believers and called for the Salat to be started ?And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them,?, then the prophet may allow another group to not to take part of the salat with them but stand behind them to protect them from the enemy while the first group is performing the Salat ? let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear,", then when the first group finish the Salat, the second group who was talking guard can do the Salat while the first group take guard ?and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; ?, this message is because at the time of the prophet the Kafiroon were so hostie to the believers at that time? (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, ?, very clear,, now Allah has excused those who were harmed or hit by rain or sick not to take part of defending the believers while they perform the salat in this hostile enjoinment ?and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions;? at the end of the j day, this is what is the disbelievers will earn ? surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.?, the Salat was mentioned again, however there was no mention to how man rakaas, nor the min number of Rakaas, neither the action of rukoo,

-> Verse 103 is telling us what the believers should do after the Salat is finished, ?Then when you have finished the prayer, remember Allah standing and sitting and reclining;?, and whenever there is no danger from the disbelievers we should perform the Salat normally and without implementing the above advice in verse 102?but when you are secure (from danger) keep up prayer; surely prayer is a timed ordinance for the believers.?, the Salat was mentioned again, but there was no number of Rakaa mentioned, nor min number of rakaas neither the action of rukoo

Therefore those who say 4102 is telling us that the min number of Rakaas are 1 or 2 according to 4100-103 don?t really know what they are talking about

Salam bro

unknownuser

Salaam Brother AhmedBahgat,

Thanks for your input and I understand this is clear that this verse 4102 is not about how many rakaat should we have in our salaat. One has to derive that meaning from the verse as one can derive many other meanings from it. So its really not recommendable because it is not what being said in the verse. Quran gives its instructions clearly and we do not need to twist its verses.

Peace to all bros, Hamsa

unknownuser

To ayman...

I promise you a detailed reply within the next few days.

Abdul Latif

ImamQuranonly

As-Salaamu Alaikum lahri19,

Now it is my turn to apologize for taking so long to respond to your posts and others. I hope to get slowly caught up over the next few days, Allah willing. So here goes

As quran alone muslims, quranists, submitters, tolu-e-islam, progressive muslims, ahlul quran, and countless others are either starting to do or are actually doing spllitting into different camps drawn along separate understandings. They are doing as Allah had mentioned

Following the Quran only as written guidance from Allah does not mean that we will all agree upon everything. It is not dividing up into sects because you understand some things different. I don't choose to call myself a "Quranist", etc. because I dont' see them as "names" used in Al Quran. I can disagree with an understanding of someone who says that they follow the guidance given by Allah in Al Quran, but that doesn't make us into different sects like sunni and shiite, etc.; IMHO.

Or have you a book wherein you read,

That you have surely therein what you choose? 6837-38

By each of us
a) pulling verses out of context
b) picking and choosing how we are going to observe and what are we going to observe
c) telling others that our manner of observance is right or argiung that another's is wrong
d) naming ourselves into groups
e) drawing up membeship lists and constitutions

We are becoming new sects and schisms and inventing our own Islam (Astaghfirullah).

a) I don't think looking at verses that have the same subject matter and then putting them together to form a complete picture is "pulling verses out of context". To understand marriage or divorce from Al Quran, you will have to pull together all the verses from different chapters to get a complete picture. This has to be done with As-Salaat as well.

b) Allah has given us instruction in Al Quran about As-Salaat. As-Salaat is not mentioned the numerous times that it is just in passing. Instructions are being given, but maybe everyone doesn't understand them. That is why we are told to study and contemplate on Al Quran. Picking an ayat to recite is a choice unless Allah says exactly what we are to say. If Allah gives advice, it is not for His benefit, but for our own. So we should follow it.

c) Saying one is right or wrong should only be done in my opinion with "clear" evidence from Al-Quran. Of course that creates a problem when some people don't see so clearly. So it becomes someone else's opinion of what is clear and what is not. Allah knows best. We are here, or at least I am here to share ideas and what I understand at a given point from Al Quran. People can take from it what they like to use it and leave what they don't like. In explaining and presenting my understanding of Al Quran, I in no way intend to make it incumbent upon anyone to follow my understanding. They should investigate and research on their own and decide if they agree with what I say. In that process, we may dialogue back and forth to discuss or "debate" that understanding. I don't expect to always be right. If I thought that then I would learn nothing!

d) The only names I use for myself are "muslim" "mu'min" "mutaqee" If others choose other names, that is between them and Allah.

e) Society, clubs, organizations, communities, and even families require some sort of membership rules and/or constitutions. I don't see anything wrong with government to the correct degree. Al Quran has to be primary and the freedoms given in it should be one of the most important factors concerning it. Freedom also means respecting the rights of others, if you get what I mean there.

So while it may seem to you that we are becoming new sects, etc., I would suggest to you that joining the old sects, etc. instead of truly seeking the truth would be the real sin.

In conclusion

To ImamQuranOnly while I humbly respect your work, I disagree with it.
To we muslims as a whole let us stick to the manner for which Allah has given us to solve disputes consensus. Lets not be like the jews and christians and countless other nations who went astray seeking after their own wants and understandings.

As Salaamu Alaykum
Your brother in Islam Abdul Latif

You are perfectly free to disagree or agree with my work. Nor does it have to be in totality either way. You could agree with some of it and disagree with other of it, to whatever percentage that you decide. It is between you and Allah. Consensus or "shurah" is not the democratic process that you may be suggesting that it is. Consultation does not equal ruling by consensus. Shurah means consultaion, not consensus. You can study the example of the Prophet from Al Quran in dealing with shuran to get a better idea of what I mean, if you like. Seeking truth from Al-Quran is exactly the opposite of what you state here about Jews and Christians in seeking their own desires. The process is a growing one, alhamdulilaah.

I understand that you have written many other posts since you wrote this one and I haven't read them all. So if anything that I said here is addressed already later, then please disregard that portion as by then I will have already read all of your other posts regarding this topic, Allah willingly.

Keep up the good work.

As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace

ImamQuranonly

As Salaamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah

I'm sorry brother Quranonly that it took me a little longer then expected to reply. It is said, "Life stops for no one." How right that is.
I read the excerpts from your book. I have also read some of the other posts online as well as other forums and websites...............................................

An essential piece of information, a comprehensive understanding, is lacking in today's Quran alone movement Islam is a system (319, 85; 53 see below)

This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a din(system).
T
he word Din is the semitic root for legal action, judgment, court. Islam has certain laws to be followed, certain manasik (observances) to be upheld. These are not up for debate, nor compromise. They are what they are.
What most muslims have also forgotten, is why the Quran was revealed. Allah says

And We have not revealed to you the Book except that you may make clear to them that about which they differ, ind (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe. (1664)

Having laid the groundwork as to how I approach questionable subjects in the light of Al Quran, here is my answer

I applaud your effort to approach the Salat question and seek a clear answer from the Quran. I also appreciate the time and effort put into your work. I found seveal pieces of your presentation interesting, and I am restudying the 3 salat question as a result. Having said that, I disagree on several points

a) Allah says in the Quraan

Recite that which has been revealed to you of the Book and keep up prayer; surely prayer keeps (one) away from indecency and evil, and certainly the remembrance of Allah is the greatest, and Allah knows what you do. Qur 2945

It is this verse for which most Quran alone Muslims/submitters derive the justification to change the standard pattern of salaat and devise new methods of salaat drawn from the Quran alone.

As-Salaamu Alaika lahri19,

I agree with a lot of what you said, some of which I have left in the post and some I have omitted to shorten the length. But when you say

"Recite that which has been revealed to you of the Book and keep up prayer; surely prayer keeps (one) away from indecency and evil, and certainly the remembrance of Allah is the greatest, and Allah knows what you do. Qur 2945

It is this verse for which most Quran alone Muslims/submitters derive the justification to change the standard pattern of salaat and devise new methods of salaat drawn from the Quran alone."

I have never used this ayat as justification to change the standard pattern of As-Salaat and "devise new methods" of As Salaat. To observe what Allah has stated about As-Salaat in Al-Quran, and try to understand and practice that by changing what has been corrupted of the practice by those who use "hadeeth", is not changing what ALLAH has given. It is changing what those who follow "hadeeth" have given. Drawing conclusions from Al-Quran only about how to practice As-Salaat according to what Allah wants, is the only legitimate way to accomplish it considering that the Prophet is no longer with us.

.........................The problem with this understanding is they don't read the next verse

And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is One, and to Him do we submit. 2946

It is being propagated to take your words from the Quran alone based on the word "wa" which connects the two thoughts "Atlu M 'iya 'Ilayka Mina Al-Kitbi" and "Wa 'Aqimu A-alata". If that is so, and we use the same logic applied tehn we must also admit the thought "Wa L Tujdil 'Ahla Al-Kitbi 'Ill Bi-At Hiya 'Asanu 'Ill Al-Ladhna ?alam Minhum (And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly) is also a part of Salaat.

This connection and analogy that you make using the term "wa" is not totally correct. The term "wa" means different things in different situations. Only the context can tell you what it means and how it is being used. So any argument that it doesn't mean this or that is subject to refutation. This is when a literal understanding of the arabic can not help one to understand what is meant by Allah. The "spirit" of the Quran and how it reaches the "heart" is what has to be used here to understand what is being relayed. No one can convince another of this. It is a matter of understanding and faith in what one chooses to believe.

Nevertheless, my whole "argument" or "evidence" from Al-Quran that only the words of Al-Quran should be used for As-Salaat is not based on this one example. As a matter of fact, before I read this post I had added a whole section to the book that discusses why only the words of Al-Quran should be used during As-Salaat. I hope to post it soon so that people may comment on it and that it will help those of it who see it as a help, insha Allah.

b) As Islam is a system, Salaat is one of its laws. The modern progressive muslims and Quran alone muslims who take the stand that every word of our practice must be derived from the Quran alone are ignorant of certain realities. One of those is that Muhammad is commanded in the 3rd chapter revealed (73 in today's uthmani division) to
...and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and offer to Allah a goodly gift, and whatever of good you send on beforehand for yourselves, you will find it with Allah; that is best and greatest in reward; and ask forgiveness of Allah; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 7320

Now this was the third chapter revealed after Suwrah 96 (Al Alaq) and Suwrah 68 (Al Qalam) neither one of which contain a detailed manner or description of how to make Salaat. So where did Muhammad learn how to make Salaat? The Submitters say It was handed down from Abraham (835; 954; 16123; 2173; 2227; 2827 among many verses). They postulate that the salaat was handed down word for word from a Chaldean named Abram (who spoke Akkadian at a time when arabic didn't exist yet) all the way to Muhammad, and that he cleaned up a few messes the Quraish made along the way.

Muhammad being commanded to make As-Salaat at any point in Al-Quran does not negate any argument that As-Salaat is fully detailed in Al-Quran and that we can obtain the necessary details there. When a Surah was or was not revealed in time is a "hadeeth" issue, of which can not be absoluted verified and is therefore only heresay. We do know from Quran that it was revealed in stages and over a good period of time. But to say that since As-Salaat was being performed before all the revelant verses were completed means that it is not derived from Al-Quran, would be similar to saying that the command to marry was given and therefore they knew all about it so we should do it as they did it without studying what Al-Quran says about how to do it. Both of these "institutions" were in practice before the revelation of Al-Quran, but Al-Quran came to refine them and therefore change how they were being practiced as pleased Allah. So just as everything else in the life of the Prophet and the ummah, nothing knew was given to them that wasn't given before. They were also practising hajj, eating, writing contracts, doing business, going to war, etc., etc., etc., but all of these were "refined" over time according to what Allah willed. To say that they did something a certain way before the revelation of Al-Quran was revealed to them, means that we should continue to do it that way, would be disregarding the improvements that Al-Quran made in their lives. The guidance came to correct that which they were erroring in, hence it should be followed, not what was before it.

They neglect, however this verse

But if you are in danger, then (say your prayers) on foot or on horseback; and when you are secure, then remember Allah, as. He has taught you what you did not know. 2259

So if they, and at this time Muhammad was still in Makkah among the Quraish, didn't know the Salaat that blows the whole Submitter idea out of the water (and casts some serious doubt on the traditional understanding of those verses).

Yet if we go back to the verse from the begining

And We have not revealed to you the Book except that you may make clear to them that about which they differ, ind (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe. (1664)

We get a better picture. The basic structure of Salaat existed from Abraham's time down (as can be found in many places through out the bible on how the old testament prophets prayed Standing, bowing, prostrating). The two descendants of Abraham, Ishmael and Isaac, took with them the practices of their father (one becoming judaism, the other the basis for the practices of Islam). When Muhammad came he was taught by Allah (see above) how to properly perform it and how to purify it

How to perform ablution (443;56)
What Qiblah to face (2142-150)
What tone of voice to use (17110)
What is the order of the Salaat (4101-103)
When not to and how to approach the Salaat (443)
When in abnormal circumstances (2239)
In what units to perform the Salaat (4101; 3446)
Certain additions/reformations (such as al fatiha 1587; what to say in sujjud 17107-111)
Additional adiya (duas) to be performed after Salaat (3191-194;4103)
Additional spiritual practices (Al Tahajjud)

Allah corrected that "in which they differ" and set it straight. That being said, the basic structure of Salaat was kept in place.

I agree with you that the basic structure As-Salaat was probably already known by the arabs at the time of revelation. And I agree when you say "Allah corrected that "in which they differ" and set it straight. That being said, the basic structure of Salaat was kept in place." That doesn't mean that we should follow that previous design, as is "proved" in Al-Quran. Al-Quran tells us exactly what we should follow. Everything else is just conjecture. If the Quran didn't confirm "Qiyaam", "Rukuu", "Sajdah", etc. within itself, would you still believe they truly exist just because millions of people are doing it? I believe that Allah consistently and continously confirmed these aspects for us in Al-Quran so that future generations could separate truth from falsehood. Without a basis in Al-Quran, what part of the sunni salaat would you choose to follow and what part not to? For me, I can only follow that which I find contained within Al-Quran. If it agrees with something sunnis, shias, or even Jews or Christians do, I don't have a problem with that. Everyone possesses some small portion of the truth at the very least. My criteria is Al-Quran. Not hadith, history, what the majority of the people are doing, custom, tradition, or anything else.

I have already answer the rest of your post in another section that contains the exact same portion of that post.

As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace

ImamQuranonly

Peace brother Tanveer

Quote
That is why I don't believe in writing a complete method of salaat because I think Allah left the fine details up to the individual, otherwise He would have mentioned the fine microscopic details if they really were important.

So we both agree on that! good

With having that in mind, I always believe that we shouldn't waste our time fighting about those differences which are not important at all or depend on each individuals rather we should be more concerned about the following

4213 He has made plain to you the religion which He enjoined upon Noah and We have revealed to you, and which We enjoined on Abraham and Moses and Jesus that To Establish Deen and not to be divided therein.

With Respect, Hamsa

As-Salaamu Alaikum Hamsa and Tanveer,

I understand your point that "Allah left the fine details up to the individual, otherwise He would have mentioned the fine microscopic details if they really were important." I don't focus on details that are not mentioned in Al-Quran. I don't think issues like "pointing one's finger" or "how you hold your hands", or "how you sit on your feet", etc., etc., etc., are important to aqeemus Salaat. Yet, we all quote the relevant verses where Allah tells us that He has detailed everything in Al Quran for us clearly, etc. Therefore I focus on the ayat that talk about the subject matter. If the ayat is there, there is some knowledge and wisdom in it about the subject that is not contained elsewhere, something that is Haqq. These are details for those who study Al-Quran and contemplate on its meanings.

I don't believe in writing, so to speak, a detailed method of how to make As-Salaat, but I don't see anything wrong, and think it as necessary for those who don't have the tools, time or knowledge necessary to "derive", "comment" or "show" how Allah tells us to "aqeemus Salaat", according to the ayaat of Al-Quran.

As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace

ImamQuranonly

Peace Brother Tanveer,

When It comes to Laws, Quran gives its instruction clearly and we do not need to stretch the verses to derive a meaning. Like in the case of when you lend right it down, what is permissible to eat and what is not, what relations you cannot marry with, how to distribute wealth when you die, etc, this is the style of Quran.

In this case you derive
In the verse 4102 just an example is given for two groups to tell the believers what their strategy should be in the difficult situation say war. If there are more than two groups the leader has to perform more units, so saying that 2 units in a salaat is a law cannot be true. Because one can also derive from the verse that there should be only two groups in war to perform salaat not less not more, and ofcourse this is not what verse is saying and thus is stretched meaning. And also for some reason if I reduce my salaat do you think it is not Aqims Salaat?

I believe these details are left to us Alhamdulillah. It has saved the humanity from lot of trouble. From the Quran we only know three basic positions that is standing, bowing and prostrating. All other details are left to us because no law is given for that.

With Respect, Hamsa

As-Salaamu Alaikum Hamsa,

The Prophet and his contingency was an example for us. We can understand from other relevant ayaat of Al Quran that his party was small in number during the wars mentioned. Therefore it would be reasonable for them to only divide into two groups since he was the leader of that group. It would be no different than a batalion now, it would only have one head leader. If there are different groups in different places, for purposes of As-Salaat, dividing one into two for security is a reasonable understanding. "Imams" acting upon the example of the Prophet are not limited to only one doing so. So if there are two groups, that divide into four, only two leaders would be needed to lead each "group"; one for each one that divides into two. That is not stretching the meaning of the ayat, but keeping its understanding in the context and perception given from Al Quran.

And if you reduce your "Salaat" without proper cause, then surely you have not "aqeemus Salaat" according to 4103.

To say that only the basic positions of standing, bowing and prostrating are given in Al-Quran regarding As-Salaat, would be to totally ignore the volumes of other ayaat that speak on the subject. I don't see how anyone that read them all could agree with that analogy.

As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace

ImamQuranonly

Peace brother Abdul,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Just for now one correction.

In the verse 4100-103 the number of minimum rakaat mentioned is one not two. And the upper limit is left to us, which can be 2, 3 or 4 according to time and requirements.

Peace, Hamsa

As-Salaamu Alaikum Hamsa,

No where in the Quran have I heard of a term that described the complete "unit" of As-Salaat. The term "rakaat" is a sunni or shiite invention, or term of use. Therefore you will not find any direct reference to how many "rakaat" there are in Al-Quran. Yet ayat 4102 clearly states that "when they have prostrated", and continuing to denote that they have then finished completing As-Salaat and the other group should then perform it. You have to "stretch" the meaning of this ayat to get more than "one" prostration! Therefore, each group completing only one prostration each denotes that it contains only two units to Aqeemus Salaat when not shortened for danger, etc.

Also please see my post on how many "units" to peform and review 3446.

As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace

ImamQuranonly

Hello all

There is nothing in 4100-103 that states the min number of Rakaas, infact Rukoo was never mentioned, nor one rakaa neither two rakaa for that matter, so for those who cliam this allegation, where they got it from exactly?

Cheers

As-Salaamu Alaika AhmedBahgat,

Please see my last post to Hamsa regarding your comment here.

As-Salaamu Aalikum, peace

ImamQuranonly

As Salaamu Alaika AhmedBahgat,

-> Verse 100 is encouraging the people to migrate in Allah ways and if we do then we will find a lot of resources in other lands ?And whoever migrate in Allah's way, he will find in the earth many a place of refuge and abundant resources,?, then the verse is telling us that whoever migrate to Allah and His messenger and dies then his/her reward is with Allah [b? and whoever goes forth from his house flying to Allah and His Messenger, and then death overtakes him, his reward is indeed with Allah and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?, no mention of Salat at all

-> Verse 101 is telling us that we are allowed to shorten our Salat if we travel in the land, however the Salat shortening can only be experienced if we travel in the land of disbelievers (our enemy) who might try to cause distress to us because of our belief ? And when you journey in the earth, there is no blame on you if you shorten the prayer if you fear that those who disbelieve will cause you distress, surely the unbelievers are your open enemy. ?, while the Salat is mentioned, only shortening it was mentioned, the verse never told us by how much we should shorten it nor the min number of rakaas in this case or other cases.

It may be a technicality to you, but the whole earth belongs to Allah. So there is not such true things as "the land of the disbelievers (our enemy)". One could be in a so called "muslim" land and be among those who want to hurt or harm you, especially if you believe differently than they do on certain issues. The key here is travelling anywhere, where you are not in the security of your own home or environment that you have secured. A Masjid in the city where I live that is my home and has been secured for those who believe and worship together at that particulary place, may be considered in "the land of disbelievers (our enemy)".

You are correct, ayat 4101 doesn't tell how how much we are to shorten it by, the next one does that.

-> Verse 102 is a message to the prophet (however it can be implemented by other believers if the circumstances are the same), the message is simply as follow, if the prophet is with a group of believers and called for the Salat to be started ?And when you are among them and keep up the prayer for them,?, then the prophet may allow another group to not to take part of the salat with them but stand behind them to protect them from the enemy while the first group is performing the Salat ? let a party of them stand up with you, and let them take their arms; then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear,", then when the first group finish the Salat, the second group who was talking guard can do the Salat while the first group take guard ?and let another party who have not prayed come forward and pray with you, and let them take their precautions and their arms; ?, this message is because at the time of the prophet the Kafiroon were so hostie to the believers at that time? (for) those who disbelieve desire that you may be careless of your arms and your luggage, so that they may then turn upon you with a sudden united attack, ?, very clear,, now Allah has excused those who were harmed or hit by rain or sick not to take part of defending the believers while they perform the salat in this hostile enjoinment ?and there is no blame on you, if you are annoyed with rain or if you are sick, that you lay down your arms, and take your precautions;? at the end of the j day, this is what is the disbelievers will earn ? surely Allah has prepared a disgraceful chastisement for the unbelievers.?, the Salat was mentioned again, however there was no mention to how man rakaas, nor the min number of Rakaas, neither the action of rukoo,

Rukoo doesn't need to be mentioned here because it is not the descriptive term to denote how many "units" of As-Salaat should be performed. You stated "....then when they have prostrated themselves let them go to your rear,", then when the first group finish the Salat.." The key is there for you if you will note it. When they have prostrated.....when the first group finish the Salat. This is telling you that As-Salaat is finished for this first group upon their prostration, it would have to be stretched in meaning to denote more than one prostation. Otherwise, how would you know what is shortened? If you can do 3, 4, 5, 10 or even 50 prostrations for As-Salaat, then what is the point of shortening it to say 25? How would one know what is shortened and what is normal? If 25 is normal, then how is it shortened also? The only way it can make sense is if it is two units! Therefore when you do one prostration and finish, it is shortened from two. If you have no upper limit, shortened has no real meaning.

That's why to establish "tahajjud" is not called As-Salaat. It is the same function, but it is not obligatory and therefore has no limit on the amount of prostrations because there is not need to ever shorten something that is not obligatory. It is also done alone. But this is for another topic and time.

-> Verse 103 is telling us what the believers should do after the Salat is finished, ?Then when you have finished the prayer, remember Allah standing and sitting and reclining;?, and whenever there is no danger from the disbelievers we should perform the Salat normally and without implementing the above advice in verse 102?but when you are secure (from danger) keep up prayer; surely prayer is a timed ordinance for the believers.?, the Salat was mentioned again, but there was no number of Rakaa mentioned, nor min number of rakaas neither the action of rukoo

Therefore those who say 4102 is telling us that the min number of Rakaas are 1 or 2 according to 4100-103 don?t really know what they are talking about

Salam bro

Again the key here is that you stated "whenever there is no danger from the disbelievers we should perform the Salat normally". Normally would be determined by what is being described as what is shortened. The same "Imam", in this case the Prophet, is leading the same group in two units of As-Salaat ending with prostration. If it ends with prostration, the first prostration ends it, not an arbitrary one. Therefore two "units" of As-Salaat are completed when two groups each have performed one prostration each. Maybe 3446 can add some light to this issue, if you can see the connection, insha Allah. If you are only looking for the word "rakaat" to be mentioned, then you will miss the points being made here.

And Allah knows best about " Therefore those who say 4102 is telling us that the min number of Rakaas are 1 or 2 according to 4100-103 don?t really know what they are talking about "; maybe after study you may want to reconsider this statement, insha Allah.

As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace

unknownuser

As Salaamu Alaika Brother ImamQuranonly,

Thanks a lot for your time and efforts to reply my posts.

God bless you.

Hamsa

peace

ImamQuranonly

As-Salaamu Alaika Brother RasulHamsa,

It is my pleasure brother. I look forward to our continued growth and dialogue, insha Allah.

As-Salaamu Alaikum, peace

As Salaamu Alaika Brother ImamQuranonly,

Thanks a lot for your time and efforts to reply my posts.

God bless you.

Hamsa

peace