Modern Day Pork

phoenix1

peace

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9265.0

I think this is an interesting thread.
Is the command (to not eat pig) using symbolism? I'm not sure.
I haven't seen a convincing "health reason" for avoiding pig meat. And even if there was one, it doesn't make sense for the quran to mention pig meat and not all the other harmful and deadly stuff we shouldn't eat.

warner

Peace Ay

Thanks for your answer. I can not think of anything better either. But I feel there is more to these rules than we understand. If Koshe is about slaughtering properly, does the Quraan say anything on proper slaughter?

What do you think of the food of Kafirs and Mushriks?

Following verses are examples of rejecters among the People of the Book surely you can find examples of the believers among the People of the Book

2 105

Yusuf Ali It is never the wish of those without faith among the people of the Book nor of the Pagans that anything good should come down to you from your Lord. But Allah will choose for His special Mercy whom He will for Allah is Lord of grace abounding.

Transliteration Ma_ yawaddul lazina kafaru_ min ahlil kita_bi wa lal musyrikina ay yunazzala 'alaikum min khairim mir rabbikum, walla_hu yakhtassu bi rahmatihi may yasya_'(u), walla_hu zul fadlil 'azim(i)

98 1
Yusuf Ali Those who reject (Truth) among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists were not going to depart (from their ways) until there should come to them Clear Evidence

Transliteration Lam yakunil ladzina kafaru_ min ahlil kita_bi wal musyrikina munfak kina hat ta_ tatiyahumul bay yinah

98 6

Pickthall Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings.

Transliteration In nal ladzina kafaru_ min ahlil kita_bi wal musyrikina fiha_, ula_ ika hum syarul bariy yah

unknownuser

Bros/Sis, what happend to my question?

Peace, Hamsa

Dotty

I think it refers to the food of the people of the book as seperate because they also have rules and regulations as to what they can and cant eat - eg. kosher food is prepared similiarly to halal food; as someone (i think dotty?) stated earlier - the bible also prohibits the eating of pork etc....

Peace,

I want to make a correction. Earlier I did say the bible prohibits eating pork, but I had the wrong chapter. It is actually in

Deuteronomy 148 The pig, because it has a split hoof but doesn?t chew the cud, is unclean to you of their flesh you shall not eat, and their carcasses you shall not touch.

God bless,

dotty

jankren

peace

http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9265.0

I think this is an interesting thread.
Is the command (to not eat pig) using symbolism? I'm not sure.
I haven't seen a convincing "health reason" for avoiding pig meat. And even if there was one, it doesn't make sense for the quran to mention pig meat and not all the other harmful and deadly stuff we shouldn't eat.

Like what? Poisonous frog? I dont think it is necessary to tell people not to eat such an obviously harmful animal that no one eats anyway unlike pig which is consumed by many people around the world.

Al-Quraishi

It's not necessary that the latter would follow the former (as in finding the reasons and consequently following the laws), but I agree with what's implied. However on the flip side, some say that what is not understood or known shouldn't be followed until one can know or understand. I think the latter can be explained with a caveat try to verify to the best of one's ability with the given/current knowledge/reasoning etc, to understand/know (two schools here, those who think it shouldn't be followed in the meanwhile and those who think it should for avoidance of something unknown).

Salam Savage,

The thing is, if you already believe the Qur'an is from God, then that is enough for accepting everything that God tells us to do - rather than saying 'well this is only from God as it makes sense to us' - it's a backward means of doing it.

phoenix1

Like what? Poisonous frog? I dont think it is necessary to tell people not to eat such an obviously harmful animal that no one eats anyway unlike pig which is consumed by many people around the world.

and why is a frog so obviously harmful??
there are a lot of other things too that may not be poisonous, but are extremely unhealthy, and they are consumed by pretty much everyone today. Example coke, fast food, any kind of fried food.
The quran isn't a health book. It doesn't give us any information at all about how to eat healthy or stay healthy. It just says "don't eat pig meat." It doesn't even bother to tell us why.
Is this really the best healthy advice god could give us? you must be kidding me.
peace!

jonny_k

Peace "lobster",

The quran isn't a health book. It doesn't give us any information at all about how to eat healthy or stay healthy. It just says "don't eat pig meat." It doesn't even bother to tell us why.
Is this really the best healthy advice god could give us? you must be kidding me.
peace!

JK- Im sorry lobster but this is INCORRECT. "khinzeer" also means "contaminated" just as "kahmr" doesnt only mean "alcohol" but any "mind covering drugs" as well. So yes GOD forbade all contaminated meat be it poisonous by nature or artificially, be it of immediate or long term effect. GOD Bless!

jankren

and why is a frog so obviously harmful??

Did I say all frogs are harmful?

there are a lot of other things too that may not be poisonous, but are extremely unhealthy, and they are consumed by pretty much everyone today. Example coke, fast food, any kind of fried food.
The quran isn't a health book. It doesn't give us any information at all about how to eat healthy or stay healthy. It just says "don't eat pig meat." It doesn't even bother to tell us why.
Is this really the best healthy advice god could give us? you must be kidding me.
peace!

God does tell us why. If only you would open you Al Quran once in a while you know.

"Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was sacrificed to other than God, and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on alters, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is all vile."
(Al Quran 53)

And as Johnny said the reason those things are forbidden because they are unclean or contaminated. Moreover, God gave us akal' or intelligence to tell which is bad and which is good. Just because Al Quran does not mention the forbiddance of shit for example does not mean Muslims can eat shit. It is like when school forbids you to bring cellphone to class because it could obviously disturb your or everyone elses concentration you assume that then it is ok to bring Nintendo DS or Gameboy Advance instead.

Peace,

phoenix1

come on Jankren, since when does "vile" mean anything??
I can say "don't play soccer because it is vile" or "don't listen to music because it is vile."
So don't ever play soccer or listen to music again because, as I have just said, they are vile.

And as Johnny said the reason those things are forbidden because they are unclean or contaminated. Moreover, God gave us akal' or intelligence to tell which is bad and which is good. Just because Al Quran does not mention the forbiddance of s*** for example does not mean Muslims can eat s***. It is like when school forbids you to bring cellphone to class because it could obviously disturb your or everyone elses concentration you assume that then it is ok to bring Nintendo DS or Gameboy Advance instead.

Okay. Cell phones are forbidden in class because they can distract. Not because they are "vile." There's an actual reason for banning cell phones. And it's not just cell phones, it is, or at least should be, anything that is distracting in a class room.
The quran, unless Jonny is right about "khinzeer" not meaning "pig", only gives us one specific thing that we shouldn't eat, and doesn't give us a (good enough) reason.
If Jonny is right, then my argument doesn't stand, of course. So, bro Jonny, where's your proof?

zenje

Peace Suzanne and welcome to the forum,

I am a new Revert and as expensive as groceries are right now, especially the price of beef...I find that many cuts of pork are very affordable!
Veges are goood and cheaper than meats.http//i28.photobucket.com/albums/c236/zenje/smilies/vegi.gif

The 'gay' threads, the 'drink' threads and the pig threads... always get much love. group

PEACE

Bigmo

I think Judaism also forbids pork. Anyways its not a big deal I believe. There is some evidence that pork needs to be cooked in higher temperatures or for a longer time to eleminate bacteria or something like that.

Its no big deal I believe. Muslims are usually raised not to eat it so there is a taboo there. Its better to avoid excessive meat anyways, and pork is heavy in cholesterol.

Samia

From Lane Lexicon V2 Page 368 http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume2/00000368.pdf

The plural of Khanzir
also signifies A well-known
disease; (S ulcers, (K) or hard ulcers, (S,)
which arises in the neck (S,K) or ganglions,
or hard or nodous lumps beneath the skin, in the
neck, and in soft parts, such as the armpits; but
most frequently in the neck. (Mghl.)

As mentioned about the plural of Khaznir refer to a glandular swelling disease in animals, I would like my bros/sis who know Arabic to comment wheather the singular khanzir could also have the same meaning?

Peace all, Hamsa

Salaam Hamsa

I could not find a singular for khanzir "glandular disease that affects the neck", but most probably this is the plural of khanzar or khanzara a thick thing. Moreover, the expression is (la7mul khinzeer), literally means (meat of swine) not (swine meat) so it is an idafa construction, not noun/adjective construction. In other words, it cannot mean (filthy/contaminated/rotten...etc meat). It has to be (meat of something).

unknownuser

Salaam Hamsa

I could not find a singular for khanzir "glandular disease that affects the neck", but most probably this is the plural of khanzar or khanzara a thick thing. Moreover, the expression is (la7mul khinzeer), literally means (meat of swine) not (swine meat) so it is an idafa construction, not noun/adjective construction. In other words, it cannot mean (filthy/contaminated/rotten...etc meat). It has to be (meat of something).

salaam sis Samia,

Thanks for clarifying.

Hamsa

Alen

Since much of religion is based on superstitions and the lack of scientific proof of things, why wouldnt it be ok to eat pork in this day and age, in America for instance where there are strict regulations? Pigs raised for human consumption no longer wallow around peoples back yards eating their sewage. I'm wondering if what Muhammad knew as "swine" were even the same as the hogs raised today? I am a new Revert and as expensive as groceries are right now, especially the price of beef...I find that many cuts of pork are very affordable!

Salam.

You have to understand that the key issue here is the obediance. We must obey The Exalted GOD AllMighty. If The GOD Almighty says do not eat a pig, then just obey, simple as that.

As we all know, there are bunch of animals that are also not suppose to be eaten but people eat them. Nowhere in The Quran are we told do not eat a snake.
Why?
Because people are afraid to be within a mile of them let alone have them as a dinner.
I know, there are some people who eat snakes.

Okay, who eats crows?

GOD knows best but i think it's about the obediance.
Remember the Beginning?
Adam and his wife were given a simple command do not approach this tree.
Simple, right?

Peace.

jonny_k

Peace "lobster",

...The quran, unless Jonny is right about "khinzeer" not (only) meaning "pig", only gives us one specific thing that we shouldn't eat, and doesn't give us a (good enough) reason.
If Jonny is right, then my argument doesn't stand, of course. So, bro Jonny, where's your proof?

JK- First of all the term khinzeer in general means "contaminated" but if used like "lahm UL khinzeer", which the Quran does if i rem correctly twice as such can only mean the latter must be a noun and thus must mean "pig/swine". BUT there is one verse in the Quran where theres NO "al/ul" in between those words. Here it is
Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) any contaminated meat(lahman (NO AL) khinzeeran), for it is repugnant, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than GOD." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
Moreover one should notice that it is this verse which also details what type of blood, namely running i.e. the one which runs out and not tht which clings to the meat inside, is prohinited. Now why did GOD use this term differently in this very verse? Coinidence? After connecting the dots i dont think so. GOD Bless!